<DOC> [109th Congress House Hearings] [From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access] [DOCID: f:25173.wais] LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE FIGHT AGAINST METHAMPHETAMINE: IMPROVING FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL EFFORTS ======================================================================= HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE, DRUG POLICY, AND HUMAN RESOURCES of the COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ AUGUST 23, 2005 __________ Serial No. 109-103 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/ index.html http://www.house.gov/reform ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 25-173 WASHINGTON : 2006 _____________________________________________________________________________ For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512ÿ091800 Fax: (202) 512ÿ092250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402ÿ090001 COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM TOM DAVIS, Virginia, Chairman CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut HENRY A. WAXMAN, California DAN BURTON, Indiana TOM LANTOS, California ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida MAJOR R. OWENS, New York JOHN M. McHUGH, New York EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York JOHN L. MICA, Florida PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania GIL GUTKNECHT, Minnesota CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois CHRIS CANNON, Utah WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee DIANE E. WATSON, California CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland DARRELL E. ISSA, California LINDA T. SANCHEZ, California GINNY BROWN-WAITE, Florida C.A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland JON C. PORTER, Nevada BRIAN HIGGINS, New York KENNY MARCHANT, Texas ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia Columbia PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina ------ CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina (Independent) ------ ------ Melissa Wojciak, Staff Director David Marin, Deputy Staff Director/Communications Director Rob Borden, Parliamentarian/Senior Counsel Teresa Austin, Chief Clerk Phil Barnett, Minority Chief of Staff/Chief Counsel Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana, Chairman PATRICK T. McHenry, North Carolina ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland DAN BURTON, Indiana BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont JOHN L. MICA, Florida DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois GIL GUTKNECHT, Minnesota DIANE E. WATSON, California STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio LINDA T. SANCHEZ, California CHRIS CANNON, Utah C.A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan MAJOR R. OWENS, New York GINNY BROWN-WAITE, Florida ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina Columbia Ex Officio TOM DAVIS, Virginia HENRY A. WAXMAN, California J. Marc Wheat, Staff Director Nicholas Coleman, Professional Staff Member and Counsel Malia Holst, Clerk C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on August 23, 2005.................................. 1 Statement of: Oetjen, Gary W., Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Louisville, KY District Office, Drug Enforcement Administration; and John Sommer, director, Ohio High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area [HIDTA].................... 11 Oetjen, Gary W........................................... 11 Sommer, John............................................. 21 Vore, Dave, Montgomery County sheriff; Ralph Fizer, Jr., Clinton County sheriff; Tom Ariss, Warren County sheriff; Commander John Burke, Greater Warren County Drug Task Force; Jim Grandey, esq., Highland County Prosecutor; and Commissioner Randy Riley, Clinton County Administrator..... 50 Ariss, Tom............................................... 59 Burke, John.............................................. 64 Fizer, Ralph, Jr......................................... 55 Grandey, Jim............................................. 72 Riley, Randy............................................. 76 Vore, Dave............................................... 50 Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by: Ariss, Tom, Warren County sheriff, prepared statement of..... 62 Burke, Commander John, Greater Warren County Drug Task Force, prepared statement of...................................... 67 Fizer, Ralph, Jr., Clinton County sheriff, prepared statement of......................................................... 57 Grandey, Jim, esq., Highland County Prosecutor, prepared statement of............................................... 74 Oetjen, Gary W., Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Louisville, KY District Office, Drug Enforcement Administration, prepared statement of...................... 14 Riley, Commissioner Randy, Clinton County Administrator , prepared statement of...................................... 78 Sommer, John, director, Ohio High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area [HIDTA], prepared statement of........................ 26 Souder, Hon. Mark E., a Representative in Congress from the State of Indiana, prepared statement of.................... 4 Tobin, Pete, deputy director, Ohio High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area [HIDTA], prepared statement of............ 32 Vore, Dave, Montgomery County sheriff, prepared statement of. 53 LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE FIGHT AGAINST METHAMPHETAMINE: IMPROVING FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL EFFORTS ---------- TUESDAY, AUGUST 23, 2005 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources, Committee on Government Reform, Wilmington, OH. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9 a.m., in the McCoy Room at the Kelley Center, Wilmington College, Wilmington, OH, Hon. Mark Souder (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Turner, Cummings, and Souder. Staff present: Nicholas Coleman, professional staff member and counsel; and Malia Holst, clerk. Mr. Souder. The subcommittee will now come to order. Good morning, and we thank you all for coming. Today we will continue our subcommittee's work on the problem of methamphetamine trafficking and abuse--a problem that is ravaging the entire Nation and putting a severe strain on law enforcement agencies at State and local levels. I would particularly like to thank Congressman Mike Turner for inviting us here to Wilmington for this important hearing. I look forward to working with him as Congress moves ahead with anti-methamphetamine legislation. I would also like to thank our ranking member, Congressman Elijah Cummings, for taking the time from his August recess to join us here in Ohio today. Even though meth is not yet one of the primary drug threats in Congressman Cummings' own district in inner-city Baltimore, he has always been very supportive of our national efforts to stop this deadly drug. This is actually the 10th hearing focusing on meth held by our subcommittee since 2001. In places as diverse as Indiana, Arkansas, Hawaii, and Minnesota, I have heard moving testimony about how this drug has devastated lives and families. But I have also learned about the many positive ways that communities have fought back, targeting the meth cooks and dealers, trying to get addicts into treatment, and working to educate young people about the risks of meth abuse. Today we are focusing particular attention on the challenge of meth to Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies. That challenge is complicated by the way this drug is made, and by who is making it. Most meth comes from the so-called ``superlabs'' in California and northern Mexico, and Congress is currently exploring ways to address that problem. Direct action against the labs themselves, and the traffickers controlling them, is part of the solution. But an even more important part is controlling the supply of precursor chemicals, notably pseudoephedrine, the key component in most cold medicines. We need a better international system for controlling the manufacture and distribution of pseudoephedrine to prevent its being diverted to meth production. However, Congress also needs to address the other source of meth supply: the small, clandestine or ``clan'' meth labs that generate so much damage and misery for local communities. The amount of meth that is created at these smaller labs is relatively small, yet they have a huge impact on the community due to the environmental damage and health risks that they create. The National Association of Counties recently published a survey, which details the enormous impact that meth is having on law enforcement agencies. The survey reported that nearly 60 percent of the responding counties stated that methamphetamine was their largest drug problem; 67 percent reported increases in meth-related arrests. Over half of the agencies surveyed stated that at least 1 in 5 jail inmates are serving methamphetamine-related sentences. Proposals to give Federal help to this ground fight against clan labs have taken two general forms--first, proposed retail and wholesale regulations of pseudoephedrine products; and, second, financial assistance to State and local agencies to deal with the cost of investigating and cleaning up lab sites. I believe that both approaches will be necessary, but the question is how they can best be implemented. Nearly everyone agrees that we need to better regulate pseudoephedrine products. As they say, however, the devil is in the details. Precisely what regulations are needed at the Federal level, and what kind of exceptions should apply? Some ideas--including import controls, better wholesale market monitoring, and repealing Federal exemption that allows unlimited sales of pills in blister packs--are fairly non- controversial. I have proposed legislation that would put all of these into Federal law. Congress is also considering legislation for another approach, putting pseudoephedrine on Schedule V of the Controlled Substances Act, which would put most cold products behind the pharmacy counter, and prevent non-pharmacies from selling them. A number of States have already passed such regulations. In fact, the overall majority are currently considering it. And hopefully we will have data soon showing how effective they, in fact, are. But we need to be mindful of the impact of these laws on consumers and on small businesses. We don't want to pass laws that unnecessarily burden consumers in rural and small towns that prevent everyone but Wal-Mart and Target from selling cold medicines. The second major proposal involves providing Federal financial and other assistance to State and local law enforcement agencies. The cost of cleaning up meth labs is very high--much higher than most rural agencies can afford. Moreover, the health hazard of meth labs is such that local police officers often have to wait for 6 hours or more for the State lab unit to arrive. That's time wasted, when they can't protect the community from other threats. The Federal Government must do something to help with this serious problem, because the Nation's fight against illegal drug trafficking depends on the ability of State and local agencies to do their part. But we also have to recognize that we will never have enough money to fund every anti-meth effort. We need a mechanism for targeting limited Federal resources in the areas with the most significant problem, and where they will have the most significant impact. My bill, and a number of other bills, try to address these various issues, but we need an overall, national anti-meth strategy if we are ever going to get ahead of the meth problem. In this, I have frankly been very disappointed by the administration, which has not yet developed such a comprehensive strategy. I am a strong supporter of President Bush, but I believe his administration can do better than the rather tentative anti-meth initiatives announced last week in Tennessee. They are a nice first step, but we need a lot more leadership on this issue. At today's hearing, we will hear from the Federal, State, and local agencies that are trying to provide local leadership against the meth epidemic right here in southern Ohio. We welcome Gary Oetjen, Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration; and John Sommer, Director of the Ohio High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, the so-called HIDTA program. The HIDTA program has set a new standard for improving Federal, State, and local law enforcement cooperation, and I look forward to hearing about HIDTA's impact on the meth problem. On the second panel we will hear from Commissioner Randy Riley of Clinton County; Sheriff Ralph Fizer, also from Clinton County; Sheriff Tom Ariss of Warren County; Sheriff Dave Vore from Montgomery County; Commander John Burke of the Greater Warren County Drug Task Force; and Jim Grandey, the Highland County Prosecutor. We thank everyone for taking the time to join us this morning, and look forward to your testimony. [The prepared statement of Hon. Mark E. Souder follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.001 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.002 Mr. Souder. Now I would like to yield to our distinguished ranking member, Mr. Cummings, for an opening statement. Mr. Cummings. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank Mr. Turner for inviting us to his district, and we want to thank you, Mr. Turner, for your leadership on this issue. We know what it means to you. We know that you have put it at the forefront of your priorities, and so we really do appreciate this opportunity to be here. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for convening today's field hearing on law enforcement and the fight against methamphetamine. Today's hearing is the 10th in a series of hearings the subcommittee has held on the impact of methamphetamine on communities across this Nation. And I think that speaks volumes about your leadership and your commitment to this extremely challenging issue. I might add that this is a bipartisan effort. Wherever drugs are affecting people, illegal drugs affecting people throughout our Nation, we stand together. Methamphetamine, or meth, is not a new drug. In fact, it has been around for decades. Meth originated in south California, and its production, trafficking, and use were traditionally limited to California and a small number of western States, where the primary producers, traffickers, and users were outlaw motorcycle gangs and affiliated populations. Over the past couple of decades, however, Mexico- and California-based Mexican drug traffickers have become the primary large-scale producers of meth through their operation of so-called ``superlabs'' that are capable of producing 10 or more pounds of high purity meth in a single production cycle. Small-scale production and distribution of meth has also increased rapidly, as clandestine labs, some by individual users capable of producing very small quantities of the drug, have proliferated in many areas of this country. Clandestine labs are particularly prevalent in rural areas where they are difficult for law enforcement to detect. And let me add here to all of our officers, to the DEA, and HIDTA, and all of those in law enforcement, I want you to understand that our committee and subcommittee are dedicated-- we understand that you are a--truly a fed blue line, and that we want to do everything in our power to help you do your jobs. The trends that I have talked about have caused the Midwest Region to experience tremendous growth in both trafficking and production, and that activity is spreading into the southeast and the northeast regions. As a result, according to a recent report by the National Association of Counties, the meth epidemic in America--meth is now the No. 1 illegal drug threat facing most of the 500 counties that participated in a survey of local law enforcement agencies. Unfortunately, Ohio is no exception, as lab seizures, prosecutions, and the myriad of problems that accompany meth addiction and production have increased dramatically in this State. For many reasons, meth is an especially dangerous drug, with devastating consequences for individual users, as well as the communities in which they live. A powerful stimulant that affects the central nervous system, meth is derived from a chemical compound contained in over-the-counter nasal decongestants and bronchia inhalers, as well as in certain weight-loss treatments. Meth can be smoked, snorted, orally ingested, or injected, and is known by a variety of street names depending upon the form in which it is used. Meth frequently is produced in a powder form, and also in a rock form known as crystal meth or ice. Because of its high purity, the intense and prolonged high it produces, and the fact that it can be smoked, ice has become a popular drug among non-traditional users, including young people who use the drugs at rave parties. The side effects of meth use are dangerous and sometimes fatal. They include convulsions, high body temperature, stroke, cardiac arrythmia, stomach cramps, and shaking. Meth is highly addictive, and abuse of the drug can cause violent behavior, anxiety, and insomnia, in addition to psychotic effects such as paranoia, hallucinations, mood swings, and delusions. Persistent users develop a tolerance for the drug that requires a user to take increasing amounts to achieve the desired effects. Because meth can be manufactured using ingredients purchased in U.S. retail stores, small clandestine labs are often found in homes, apartments, hotel rooms, rented storage spaces, and trucks. Although most of these labs produce less than 10 pounds of meth in a year, their impact on the environment and the costs of cleaning up the toxic waste from these sites can be enormous. Because the ingredients are not only toxic but extremely volatile in combination, these labs also pose a serious danger to the so-called meth cooks who make the drug, as well as individuals living in close proximity to the activity. All too often children are found in small-scale labs. These children are not only at great risk of physical harm from explosions or exposure to toxic chemicals, but they are also victims of neglect or abuse, because of the drug's effects on their parents or other relatives. These circumstances have led to a large number of children being taken from the custodial control of their parents and placed in foster homes, adding another tragic dimension to this problem. Meth abuse has not yet--not yet--become a major problem in communities of Baltimore City and Baltimore County, Howard County, in Maryland, which I represent. But the rapid spread of meth production, trafficking and abuse in the United States, underscores the fact that America's drug problem affects all parts of America, and that no community is immune to the introduction of a dangerous, new drug threat. The possibility that could become a major problem in large eastern cities like Baltimore is a major concern to all of us. According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, aggressive enforcement and tighter controls on the commercial importation and distribution of meth, meth precursor products, have contributed to a sharp decline in the number of superlabs operating in the United States. At the same time, however, superlabs in Mexico have increased in number. Widespread trafficking of meth in the United States by Mexican drug trafficking organizations continues, and clandestine labs continue to proliferate in many areas of our country. Effective law enforcement efforts, including cooperation and coordination between Federal, State, and local agencies will continue to be necessary to combat this problem. Regional task force, the HIDTA program, which I am very pleased to say that this committee played a major role in making sure that we retain the funding for, and the Justice Department grant programs to support State and local enforcement and cleanup efforts, must continue to play a substantial role. Congress must consider what additional legislative steps can and should be taken, including whether consumer access to cough and cold medicines, and other retail products, should be restricted. Today's hearing offers the opportunity to hear and consider the views of important players in the fight against meth in Ohio, and I welcome their input concerning how we can improve on what we are doing to fight meth at the Federal, State, and local level. Finally, Mr. Chairman, as I have said many times before this committee, I believe it is also important to recognize the importance of drug treatment and how it can complement enforcement efforts in addressing this epidemic. Research for the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment shows that meth addiction can be effectively treated, and that the benefits of treating meth addiction are similar to the benefits derived from treating addiction to other drugs. If use of the drug is stopped or reduced, criminal activity and recidivism decline, employment status and housing status improve, and overall health improves. We have seen, with regard to cocaine and heroin abuse in Baltimore, that treatment and law enforcement must--must--go hand in hand to maximize our impact on reducing addiction, drug abuse, and related social ills. And I believe the same formula will yield stronger results elsewhere. That said, I thank you, Mr. Chairman, again, and I thank you, Mr. Turner, for having us in your district. Mr. Souder. Before I yield to Chairman Turner, who has been a very strong leader in our Government Reform Committee, and a great addition in all these efforts in fighting meth, I want to thank him in particular for getting our distinguished ranking member here to a real small town. He came to a hearing in Fort Wayne. He represents inner- city Baltimore. We have been up there, and I have learned more about the streets of Baltimore and the struggles in many of his very tough parts of his district, but he came to Fort Wayne once, and he keeps referring to it in Washington as a small town. [Laughter.] And it is 230,000 people. Small town, from Pittsburgh west, many towns, in fact the majority of towns, have marked the highest building as a great--and you can tell that here rivaled by the water tower. And that is the true midwest, and you are getting a dose of that. If we had time, we would take him out and have him milk a cow, get a little bit of cheese--[laughter]--check out the difference of what a real bean is, not a green bean but a soybean, a few things like that. But thank you for having us here today. Mr. Turner. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for bringing the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources here to Wilmington. I want to thank Ranking Member Cummings for being here. Both of you are national leaders in this issue, and your efforts to highlight the problems of meth and to look for solutions are very important. And Chairman Souder has come from Indiana, our neighboring State, but, Mr. Cummings, appreciate you coming from Maryland. Both of these gentlemen have taken time from their districts and from their families to be here. And why are they here? They are here not only because they have insight in this issue, and they are leaders on the national level for this, but also because they want to hear locally what's going on in our community and what we are experiencing, so that we can look at national solutions for this issue. I appreciate both of you taking your time from your districts and your families to be here. But, more importantly, we all appreciate the fact that on a national level that you have made this an important issue. And, Mr. Cummings and Chairman Souder, you have made certain that--not only that there's focus on this but that there's a search for solutions. So thank you for bringing this hearing here today and for your efforts on the national level. I want to thank our panel of witnesses and what they are going to bring to this issue--the witnesses that we have are bfrom Clinton, Warren, Highland, and Montgomery Counties. The testimony that we receive today will be helpful in examining the problems of methamphetamine abuse nationally and locally, and how we in Congress can assist local law enforcement officials in combating meth abuse. While a lot of the tension on the war on drugs has been focused on the problems of cocaine and heroin, methamphetamine abuse is reaching crisis levels all over the country and here in southern Ohio. The effects of meth usage on the body are dramatic. In the short term, meth significantly increases the level of dopamine released from the brain. A single dosage of meth can result in dangerously high body temperatures and even cause convulsions. In the long term, methamphetamine use appears to cause reduced levels of brain activity, resulting in symptoms like those of Parkinson's Disease. Nationally, meth abuse has become an increasing problem. According to the 2002 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 12.3 million Americans age 12 and older have tried meth at least once in their lifetime--5.2 percent of the population with the majority of past-year users being between 18 and 34 years of age. Since 2003, 32 active labs were closed in Clinton County. And since 2004, Warren and Highland Counties have closed almost 50 active meth labs combined. Meth abuse has also increased other crimes, such as theft and home burglaries. For law enforcement, fighting meth is dangerous, not only because of the harmful effects of the drug that it has on users and their families, but also because meth labs are highly toxic and volatile, making them a hazard to clean. The meth problem has also reached our schools, and that's why I appreciate both of you raising the issue of the effects of this drug on people, so that we can get the message out to our youth to avoid drug abuse and, of course, to avoid meth. Again, Mr. Chairman, thank you for your leadership on this critical issue. I look forward to hearing from today's distinguished panel of witnesses, and to working with you to address meth abuse issues. Thank you. Mr. Souder. Thank you. What I often do when we are--let me do first the procedural matters. Before we hear testimony, we will take care of some procedural matters. First, I ask unanimous consent that all Members have 5 legislative days to submit written statements and questions to the hearing record, and that any answers to written questions provided by the witnesses also be included in the record. Without objection, it is so ordered. Second, I ask unanimous consent that all exhibits, documents, and other materials referred to by Members and witnesses may be included in the hearing record, and that all Members be permitted to revise and extend their remarks. Without objection, it is so ordered. Finally, I ask unanimous consent that all Members present be permitted to participate in the hearing. Without objection, so ordered. When am I on the road, I usually try to explain a little bit what this committee does and our process here. The Government Reform Committee actually is older than the authorizing committees, and we do oversight. It was pretty evident under the last administration that many of the investigations that we did from the Travelgate on through were done by Government Reform and Oversight. Our subcommittee is a little bit different in the sense we do oversight on the narcotics issue, but we also have legislative jurisdiction over the Office of National Drug Control Policy [ONDCP]. And so we don't just do oversight, we actually do authorizing through this subcommittee, which is relatively unique. The way most people now--rather than thinking back a number of years--think of this is the witnesses can pretend you are Mark McGwire, and now it was a lot easier to get--we did the steroids hearing through Government Reform. We moved it up to the full committee level. We swear in our witnesses, because it is an oversight committee. Rafael Palmiero is learning that sometimes we can actually prosecute for perjury. The question was: is it relevant? And was he abusing at the time he testified? You all were much easier to get here today than Mark McGwire, who for days moved around so he could not get a subpoena served. And now we know why. But this is the committee that does those type of hearings, and that is part of our function--to see that the laws of the United States are implemented and what laws needed to be developed, so we can then move it into the legislative process and the appropriations process. We always start our hearings trying to get the--if there are Federal witnesses, they start on the first panel, as is the tradition of the committee. And we try to have them lay out kind of the regional approach that is occurring in the area, and then pick up the State and local. This hearing particularly is focused on law enforcement. We have been doing all of the different aspects. And yesterday, in Fort Wayne, the Director of SAMHSA, the Substance and Alcohol and Mental Health Administration, was in Fort Wayne, and we spent most of the day with treatment providers trying to figure out how to deal with meth. But normally the first thing that hits is the law enforcement problem. Then we move to trying to figure out how to treat it, and then it dawns on everybody that maybe we ought to prevent it. And the reason I keep talking about a national strategy, it would be nice to get that a little bit in a different order in the places where it hasn't hit yet. And as we see it often in the rural areas, it isn't even--even though Fort Wayne region is eighth hardest hit in the Nation, there is none in Fort Wayne. And trying to get ahead of this before it hits the urban areas means we ought to get prevention at the front end, so then we can try to work with the law enforcement and treat those, in fact, where we don't get it prevented, and they get caught in the law enforcement, then treat. And we have this by not having a coordinated national strategy right now. We have this whole thing out of whack, and we only are going backward with it, and yet it is a freight train heading toward the big cities. And as we heard in Minneapolis/St. Paul, they got whacked. In 12 months they went from no kids in child protection to 80 percent of the kids in child protection were meth addicts. And when it hits a city, it is much harder than crack, and that is partly why we are getting attention beyond the rural areas of the United States, because as it hits Omaha, as it hits Minneapolis/St. Paul, as we see it move into bigger cities and at the edge of Detroit and the edge of New Orleans, we are starting to see it start to move in. This all of a sudden will grab attention levels like it has never done before. So our first panel is composed of Gary Oetjen, Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Louisville, KY District Office of DEA, and John Sommer, Director of the Ohio High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area [HIDTA]. So as an oversight committee, it is our standard practice to ask all our witnesses to testify under oath. So please stand and raise your right hands. [Witnesses sworn.] Mr. Souder. Thank you. Let the record show that the witnesses responded in the affirmative, and we will start with Mr. Oetjen. STATEMENTS OF GARY W. OETJEN, ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, LOUISVILLE, KY DISTRICT OFFICE, DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION; AND JOHN SOMMER, DIRECTOR, OHIO HIGH INTENSITY DRUG TRAFFICKING AREA [HIDTA] STATEMENT OF GARY W. OETJEN Mr. Oetjen. Chairman Souder, distinguished Members of Congress, my name is Gary Oetjen, and I am the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration for the Louisville District Office. On behalf of DEA Administrator Karen Tandy, and Detroit Field Division Special Agent in Charge Robert Corso, I appreciate your invitation to testify today regarding DEA's efforts to combat methamphetamines in the State of Ohio. Detroit Field Division's area of responsibility includes the States of Michigan, Ohio, and Kentucky. In my capacity as Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Louisville District Office, I am responsible for all of the DEA offices and operations in the State of Kentucky, and also the Cincinnati, OH resident office. With me today is Anthony Mirata, the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Columbus area district office. And Mr. Mirata is responsible for the five other offices throughout the State of Ohio. Until the late 1980's, methamphetamine was a relatively unknown drug outside the States along the west coast. However, by the early 1990's, methamphetamine was gaining in popularity and began spreading across the country. Today, few places in the United States have not felt its impact. The State of Ohio is no exception. In Ohio and across the Nation, we have initiated and led successful enforcement efforts focusing on methamphetamine and its precursor chemicals and have worked jointly with our Federal, State, and local law enforcement partners to combat this drug. As a result of DEA's efforts and those of our law enforcement partners in the United States and Canada, we have seen a dramatic decline in methamphetamine superlabs in the United States. But with this drop in superlab activity, we have also seen an increase of superlabs in Mexico. No precise breakdown is available, but current drug and lab seizure data suggests that roughly two-thirds of the methamphetamine used in the United States comes from the larger labs, increasingly in Mexico, and that probably is--about one- third of the methamphetamines consumed in this country comes from the small toxic labs. Though methamphetamine is clearly a growing threat in Ohio, currently the greatest drug threat in Ohio is cocaine, in both the form of powder and crack. The most violent crime in Ohio is attributed to the distribution and the abuse of cocaine and crack cocaine. Additionally, local law enforcement agencies throughout Ohio most frequently identified cocaine, either powdered or crack, as the drug that contributes most to the property crime in their respective areas. Methamphetamine manufacturing and use are increasing throughout the State. In 2000, Ohio law enforcement agencies reported just 29 methamphetamine-related instances to El Paso Intelligence Center [EPIC]. In 2004, this number had increased to 286 instances in the State of Ohio, with 162 being actual methamphetamine labs. In 2004, Summit County, OH, which encompasses the Akron area, accounted for over 25 percent of the State's methamphetamine lab seizures. The vast majority of labs seized in Ohio were small, toxic labs, which typically produce 1 to 2 ounces of meth. Arrest data shows that the predominant manufacturers and users of methamphetamine in Ohio are caucasian males and females. We are well aware that combating this drug requires a concentrated effort by law enforcement at all levels. The strong working relationship that the DEA has developed with State and local law enforcement is an essential element of this effort. Another tool in this fight comes to DEA's Office of Training, which shares our expertise by training thousands of State and local partners from all over the country as well as our international counterparts. Since fiscal year 2002, the DEA has provided clandestine laboratory training to more than 100 officers here in Ohio. DEA also provides cleanup assistance to law enforcement agencies across the country as they battle this drug. DEA's hazardous waste program, with the assistance of grants from--to State and local enforcement supports and funds the cleanup of the majority of laboratories seized in the United States. In Ohio, from fiscal year 2002 through fiscal year 2004, DEA administered 556 lab cleanups at a total cost of $1,145,600. For 2005, up to June 30 of this year, the DEA has thus far administered 331 cleanups at a cost of $655,200. More than any other controlled substance, methamphetamine endangers children through the exposure, the drug abuse, neglect, physical and sexual abuse, toxic chemicals, hazardous waste, fire, and explosions. In response to these tragic phenomena, the DEA has enhanced its victim witness program to identify, refer, and report these incidents to the proper State agencies. This program ensures that the endangered children are identified, and that each child's immediate safety is addressed at the scene through coordination with child welfare and health care services. The DEA, both nationally and in Ohio, is keenly aware that we must continue our fight against methamphetamines and stop the spread of this drug. To combat this epidemic, we are fighting methamphetamine on multiple fronts. Thank you for your recognition of this important issue, and the opportunity to testify here today. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have, along with ASAC Mirata. [The prepared statement of Mr. Oetjen follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.003 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.004 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.005 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.006 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.007 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.008 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.009 Mr. Souder. For our witnesses who may not be familiar, we have a 5-minute rule. You have probably all heard that in preparation for your testimony. I grew up in a small town outside of Fort Wayne, surrounded by Amish, and I always joke about we have the longest yellow lights in the United States in those communities, so they can slip through the yellow in their buggies. So I will have a long yellow light here today and give a little more flexibility in the testimony. But so we can get to questions, and so on, with three Members, if you can follow close to the time. Mr. Sommer. STATEMENT OF JOHN SOMMER Mr. Sommer. Yes. Good morning Chairman Souder and distinguished members of this committee. My name is John Sommer. I am the Director of the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Program for the State of Ohio. I first would like to thank you and commend you, the committee members, for seeking the facts in this very urgent matter. The HIDTA program was established in June 1999, originally with five counties in the northern part of the State. October 2004 we established six more authorized counties in the south central part of the State. As most of you know, the HIDTA program is very unique. It is not just a channel for Federal funding, but it promotes a partnership, and it is a partnership that I have never seen before, a most unique program in my 35 years in law enforcement. This partnership is needed now more than ever to fight this battle in the State of Ohio. The HIDTA program does foster this relationship. It shares information. It does threat assessments. We have an Analytical Support Center up in Brooklyn Heights, OH. We provide strategic, operational, and tactical support throughout the State. The program, as you know, is threat-driven with regard to the training we provide, and also the task forces that we have, which are 13 Statewide. As I speak, there are 378 law enforcement officers that are part of the HIDTA program in the State of Ohio, representing 97 law enforcement agencies throughout. We have the typical executive board, which has a complete balance between Federal, State, and local law enforcement officials and executives on this board. Each year, this HIDTA, like all the other HIDTAs, does a thorough threat assessment, before we take the moneys that are given to us by Congress and spend them accordingly. And this is an act of stewardship on our part, and we also want to keep track of how the money is spent and that it is going to the most urgent areas of this battle in drug trafficking. Mostly in the State of Ohio, within the innercities, we have the biggest problem of cocaine and crack cocaine and heroin. However, the growth in methamphetamine has taken a very active role, and it is actually growing at an unbelievable rate of speed. When I came on board in the year 2000, there were 29 labs in the State of Ohio, and some of this included dump sites in those numbers. And there is 315 counted in 2004. And as of August 8 of this year, or rather August 18, there is 206 meth labs and meth-related sites found in the State of Ohio. We are way ahead of last year. We have to remember with regard to the threat assessment, the State of Ohio is an agricultural State. There are lots of farms. And with those farms, there are a lot of cornfields, and we have a lot of available anhydrous ammonia, which is used in one of the most popular methods of making methamphetamine. Because of that, what we call the ``Mom and Pop labs,'' and this was referred to earlier, have been popping up, not only stealing this chemical but also using the other precursor chemicals such as pseudoephedrine, and ephedrine-based cold medicine. So there is a lot of availability here in the State, like much of the country. These investigations are very different than the other type of investigations, and it is unlike sometimes a long-term investigation where you have a wire tap and it might take 18 months to get through. These investigations, when we find a lab, it is an emergency. We must respond immediately. There might be children exposed to these chemicals. There are all types of problems with the dump sites, what goes to the economy of this entire country. The whole concept here is much different than--and basically it is in a category of its own with regard to the trail of destruction. Also, there are no forfeitures in this type of investigation like you do--like you may find in other types of long-term investigations. There are no fancy vehicles and cars and homes to take. What you end up with is a pile of rubbish. And you have a dump site there. It might be rented property, it might be an apartment, it might be something that--it might be a park system. The cleanup is also extremely expensive and dangerous. Last year alone in Summit County there were six police officers who had to be hospitalized for inhaling the toxic fumes. Bulk transfer of methamphetamine worsening in the State of Ohio--and, of course, with that most of it is coming from Mexico or the southwestern portions of the State. Ohio is--even though it is only--it is 35th in the size geographically in this country. It is fourth in the interstate system, highway system, and handles a third amount of truck traffic through this State. Why? It is because we are a trans-shipment area, partly--halfway between Chicago and New York. There is a lot coming through here, which makes it readily available or usable for bringing in all types of narcotics and dangerous drugs, to include methamphetamine. There is a model that I want to--I referred to previously, and that is what is going on up in Summit County. Summit County, the last couple of years, has had a third of the clan labs discovered. A recent newspaper article mentioned that they were the meth capital of Ohio, with kind of a negative overtone to it. I would actually say they are the meth response capital of Ohio. That is because they have a very aggressive program, a good training program, a community awareness program. And also, we do support--the HIDTA program does support their task force. They have a very aggressive task force. Even though they have seen a 210 increase in meth labs over the last year, they are doing a great job doing it. There has been explosive devices found. There has been booby traps found. Again, very dangerous situation. There is also some imported meth coming through there. One of the largest organizations they took down was handling up to 200 pounds of crystal meth. Again, dangerous situation, automatic weapons, people tweaking out at these sites, and the dangers to the children involved and the citizens, unexpectedly these things happening in rooms next to them, in hotel rooms, motel rooms. It goes on and on. Hilton Baker is the Southern County drug task force unit chief up there, and he indicated--this was unsolicited, but he said with the overwhelming support of the HIDTA program that they feel that the Akron/Summit county HIDTA initiative has become the most successful and productive initiatives in the Nation. And he also indicated that without the HIDTA funding they would be doomed, so, obviously, they do not want to go back to the 1990's. What the HIDTA response has been--and I know I am going on longer than I should, but the HIDTA response has been very aggressive based on the limited funding we have. This last year alone at an average of $2,000 per ounce on the street level, the HIDTA initiatives have conservatively taken off $700,000 worth of raw methamphetamine, and that is in 2004. We have had awareness programs, not only speaking to community organizations but to realtors, citizens groups, prosecutors, children's services. We are trying to push the envelope as far as we can on limited funding and what we do as a HIDTA. We have also been involved with the media. We have had I wouldn't say a media campaign, but we have done the best we could to advise the media of the urgencies of what is going on. We talked to them freely and openly, so that they would spread the word of how dangerous this epidemic is in the State of Ohio. The HIDTA program is very aggressive on the training front. Again, we are threat-driven. We have put training out there that we believe the police officers need to be ahead of the curve. Since 2001, we have had a lot of training. We have trained over 1,000 officers this last year; 202 officers were trained specifically with regard to the clandestine lab training. We have coupled with DCI&I, which is the State law enforcement agency that is probably tasked with most of the investigations, giving them a 40-hour methamphetamine clandestine laboratory certification school. We are doing that next month. In 2006, we have two workshops, and we have two classes scheduled for now. We will increase that, if we can, based on budgeting. I am wrapping up, and what I want to say is in the State of Ohio we have had some legislation, and I have some recommendations. In March 2005, legislators in Ohio introduced a bill restricting the amount of ephedrine-based cold medicine. And, basically, I believe it is not strong enough. I personally would like to see a Schedule V, like Oklahoma, be a little bit stronger, keep that behind the counter, have some accountability on not only the amount of purchases but also make it a Schedule V. Also, in the State of Ohio, we have had--on April 15, 2005, H.B. 536 bill, which makes the theft of anhydrous ammonia a third-degree felony, regardless of the value. I think that is a really good start. I think that this committee, through their leadership and some of the things I have heard, could even take some of that information and maybe even push it to the point where they would recommend putting chemical additives in the anhydrous ammonia, rendering it unusable in the use of methamphetamine. There is a lot that could be done. Greene County is an example, which is just up the way here. Earlier this year, one of the clan lab operators was attempting to steal this chemical, very dangerous chemical, and the sheriff deputies came across him. He pulled a gun. They ordered him to drop the gun. They had to kill this individual. That is how desperate the people are in stealing the anhydrous ammonia, not to mention when they leave the pipe, they leave the tube. It is open for the farmer to come up and the material is leaking. And, of course, they put them in these tanks which are not suitable for transportation. The tanks blow. It just goes on and on, the dangers of this epidemic. I would just like to stress more than ever, as the Director of the HIDTA, and speaking on behalf of the HIDTA and all of the law enforcement officers and agents that are involved in this wonderful program, and which I appreciate your support on, is that for this trail of destruction that we are seeing, to get a grip on it, to get a handle on it, we have to continue the Federal funding into this, not only to respond to these sites but to train, equip, help prevent, bring on more public awareness through the program. Hopefully, through ONDCP, there will be some more commercials, and not marijuana commercials so much but more commercials that really hit the public where they need to hear it. And also, treatment should not be lost in this battle. We have to remember the treatment side of it, although you are hearing from the law enforcement side of it today. We need treatment, we need prevention, and, of course, the law enforcement side of that stool is extremely important. I brought with me my Deputy Director, Pete Tobin, who is sitting behind me. He is a Deputy Director for the HIDTA in the State of Ohio. He has 35 years of State and local law enforcement experience. I bring approximately 35 years of Federal experience. And Mr. Tobin and I have talked about this at length, and he, too, obviously recommends what I am recommending. And then, the programs that he brings to light are the COPS program that we don't want to see any cutting in that. The DEA Superfund-- DEA has been great. They have had to contract out the cleanups, but yet they are understaffed. They can't be running around responding immediately to all of these sites that we uncover. So a lot of this goes to the local law enforcement effort. Proposed cuts in the JAG program, obviously, I thank the committee, again commend the committee, for restoring this type of funding, or attempting to restore it under the current administration. And I just want to say that the HIDTA program has done a lot, but we could do a lot more. And we believe that the funding is the lifeblood, but not to be lost in the funding is the cooperation. The multi-agency cooperation that we are getting, and we are operating on a level playing field, and that is what I would like to continue with. And I thank you very much for listening. [The prepared statement of Mr. Sommer follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.010 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.011 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.012 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.013 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.014 [The prepared statement of Mr. Tobin follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.015 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.017 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.019 Mr. Souder. Mr. Oetjen, do you have DEA drug task forces in Ohio? Mr. Oetjen. Yes. The Cincinnati office itself has 16 officers, along with 14 agents. Mr. Souder. And how far up do they go? Mr. Oetjen. We come all the way up here to Clinton County. It is actually 13 counties--Clinton, Butler, Hamilton, Clermont, Brown, Adams, Ross, Pike, Scioto, Jackson, and Lawrence. I think I got them all. Mr. Souder. And in the Columbus office you also have DEA task forces in Toledo and---- Mr. Oetjen. There is five additional offices throughout the State of Ohio, and they all have task forces, yes, sir. Mr. Souder. Where you have the DEA task forces, do those overlay with the two main HIDTA zones? In Indiana, for example, our HIDTA's, we have the DEA task office in Fort Wayne, HIDTA is over in Gary, you kind of--you don't usually find overlap. They bump, but wherever they have a DEA task force, that Congressman usually wasn't as aggressive in getting a HIDTA. Where they had a HIDTA, they haven't necessarily pushed for as much of a DEA office. But that leads to this patchwork pattern that we are getting across the United States. And when you look at a State like the State of Ohio, how are you integrating so we can figure out, as meth starts to move in from, say, the Akron area, and this area starts to pop up, and another area, and then as it starts to move in on the cities, how are we integrating to look at a distribution plan as meth starts to move through a State? Mr. Oetjen. In southern Ohio, we have just committed an agent to join the HIDTA initiative here in southern Ohio. And through the HIDTA intelligence center, the southern Ohio HIDTA will interact with the northern part of the State through the intelligence center. That is the key point to the component of HIDTA is the coordination and communication between all of the HIDTA initiatives and the local task forces. And so, then, Ohio DEA incorporates mainly outlying counties, law enforcement officials, and not necessarily Cincinnati or Hamilton County Sheriff's Department. And that kind of keeps the finger on the pulse of what is going on in rural Ohio. Do you agree that in Ohio 70 percent of the meth comes from the large organizations and 30 from the Mom and Pop, which is kind of the typical pattern? Does that seem to be here? Mr. Oetjen. I have been here for 4 years, and I wouldn't have thought that until I actually saw it. And, yes, it is larger than--we have more meth coming in. In this region, we took off a superlab distributor who was importing pseudoephedrine from Canada into this area, and then distributing it back out to the West Coast to Mexican traffickers. It was approximately 3\1/2\ years that we worked on this, dismantling separate organizations. That is based on this one distribution that---- Mr. Souder. Was that part of the big operation in Detroit, or was it---- Mr. Oetjen. Yes. It is part of that. It was a nationwide SOD campaign. And as we identified this cell here, we were incorporated into that major investigation. Mr. Souder. In that investigation that came out of Detroit, that took down--at one point we thought it was like--something like 40 percent of the total quantity of pseudoephedrine in the United States. Have you seen any shift in Ohio? Have we, in effect, cut some of that Canadian structure so much that it may shift? Or what do you anticipate? Mr. Oetjen. Since that operation, I haven't seen the superlab activity that was here before. And to my recollection, I haven't seen any of the superlab meth. I have seen it--sorry, but I also cover Kentucky. But it has still been coming through the Kentucky route, but not here in southern Ohio. Mr. Souder. Before I go to somebody else, let me ask you one other question. Part of the reason I keep pushing for a national plan and ask this question--in Minneapolis, the U.S. Attorney, or the State Narcotics Officer, I can't remember which one--when I asked, ``Why hasn't this hit the cities as much?'' and they said, ``In the African-American community,'' as you stated here, ``that the urban areas are more crack and cocaine, that the distribution networks, both Hispanic and African-American, are predominately hooked into the traditional cocaine market, to some degree heroin market, and often have Colombian and Mexican ties.'' In one neighborhood, they switched over to meth, because they, in effect, cut out the Colombians. The Mexican stayed within the Mexicans. One black African-American group in one section of Minneapolis switched over, and all of a sudden 20 percent of their addiction in the city was meth. Have you seen any signs, or are you watching for signs, of how--because these are a lot like trucking companies. They are a lot like just here is a Target and here is Wal-Mart. Part of the thing here is that if we are not watching these trends as to where the patterns are coming from, to the degree we are all successful in putting any pressure on Colombia, to the degree we are all putting any pressure on the border, which we are not in immediate danger of sealing our border. But we do--the patterns are likely to change. And are we watching those kind of things? And do you have a setup to kind of track something like this, because we are seeing it? And do you even get information from other parts of the country where DEA is seeing this sudden flip-over of some of these distribution networks? Mr. Oetjen. We absolutely get information from other parts of the country and through the SOD center, which is tracking the major trafficking routes. Sometimes we are aware that they are coming before they get there. Sometimes they are there, and we come upon them, and through the interaction with the SOD program in Washington they have identified the major routes. In my 30 years of narcotic experience, and 22 with DEA, I have seen towns like Tuscaloosa, AL, change over in about a week's time. The crack epidemic went in and just took over, and that is how they do that. They will come in, and there is violence and a takeover. And it is--you know, using your term, it is almost like a corporate takeover. They come and just squash the competition and spread this poison. Sometimes they give away the drugs in the beginning to get everybody hooked on it and set up the distribution points. And then, once it is there, they are entrenched, and it is hard to get rid of it. Mr. Souder. Thanks. Mr. Cummings. Mr. Cummings. I just want to followup on what the chairman just asked. I wasn't even going to go down this road, but I couldn't help but think about in my district where I have actually seen this, seen in the middle of the day you are walking down--you are driving, and you see maybe 150 people literally lined up in a straight line to get samples of a drug. And when you first see it, it just blows your mind. You just can't believe this is happening in the middle of the day in a busy area. And I was just thinking about what the chairman just asked you. I would imagine that--see, I think about meth coming into urban areas because it is cheap to produce. And so if you have some people looking for a high, and they have an opportunity to get something that is cheap, and they can come in and do one of those sample things like what I just described, and somebody--they may not be used to the meth, but they say, ``Well, gee, this is nice.'' The next thing you know, I think it does--you have a major problem. And so you are saying that you wouldn't--that wouldn't surprise you, then? Mr. Oetjen. No, it wouldn't. Mr. Cummings. What I want to talk about more than anything else is this blue line, and our police officers and what assistance that you all give them. I know both of you all talked about training. Do we--and you, Mr. Sommer, you talked about how you had--you wish you had more classes. I forget what it was in particular. But are we--do we--when these local police--we have heard a lot of testimony about how police officers, when they have to go clean up this mess, or to be there, you may have a small group of--small law enforcement agency, and it basically just ties them up. One of my concerns is that when it ties them up, then there are other crimes they can't deal with. And the criminal mind is they--they are all into this. They say, ``OK. If they are tied up with meth, then we can go and do our little stuff, the robberies, whatever else, because the police are tied up dealing with this.'' And so I am just going to try and make sure that when the police come to you all for this training, are you able to provide them with the training that they are requesting? I mean, do we have a waiting list or something like that? When it comes to cleanup, you are talking about cleanup, are we using Federal funds mostly for these cleanups? Because you have a law enforcement officer that has a law enforcement agency, I am talking about these small counties, that have a small budget. I mean, it sounds to me like if you get three or four of these cleanups, you have a major problem with your budget, and something has to give. So I am just wondering, where are we with training? And where are we with cleanup? Mr. Oetjen. Well, as far as DEA, we are constantly providing clandestine lab training and a train-the-trainer concept, where we can train the first responders, the police officers in uniform, what they are going to come up on, because a few years ago they didn't know. They had no knowledge. In southern Ohio, the system is set up that, as far as the Federal funding, we provide COPS cleanup money for all the clan labs. We have had to tweak that system that--the 24-hour number, that when they come up on something, they call us, we give them an appropriation number, so to speak, and they have-- and then, the company comes and cleans it up. That is all done with Federal dollars, and that is through the COPS program. Mr. Cummings. Have you had a sufficient amount of money to do that? In other words, I take it that--I mean, have you had situations where there was a need for a cleanup and you didn't have sufficient dollars to do it? I mean, it may have been the end of the fiscal year? I don't know. Mr. Oetjen. The money is a pool---- Mr. Cummings. Right. I understand. Mr. Oetjen [continuing]. In Washington. So to this day, there has never been an instance where we have asked for money and we didn't get money for the cleanup. Mr. Cummings. Good. Mr. Oetjen. Forgive me, I know we are not in Kentucky, but in Kentucky they do a container program, and they have reduced the funds all the way down to $300 per lab. And it is done by the unique cooperation between DEA, Kentucky State Police, the local sheriffs and agencies. If they find a lab, they are trained to seize that lab. They take that lab to a depot so to speak, and it sits there. So it costs just as much to clean up 10 labs in one location as it does to go out and do it 10 times. It is 10 times the cost. So it has reduced a lot of the cost of this cleanup. Mr. Sommer. I would just say that the local law enforcement element is hungry for the training. And when we started this up about 3 or 4 years ago with Ohio State Highway Patrol, just to tell them and show them what the precursors were, and what you might see in the back seat of a car is not what you think it is, or what it might be used for--empty boxes of pseudoephedrine or tanks that are starting to turn blue, ready to blow the tops on it, and glassware. So it has really, really helped us. We could probably do training almost every week at least in this area. And there are different levels of training. There is the actual certification course, which when they come out they have their moon suits, and these are the people that are going to be doing the cleanups. And then there are some other basic courses, which are just basically the awareness courses and what to look for. How this has changed in the last 2 or 3 years is that it is something that they have to respond to. And a lot of times, even if they are not assigned to do the cleanup, they still have to respond to it, they have to guard the sites. There is overtime costs that are involved that these small police departments may not have. This is where the HIDTAs do come in to help pay for that. What it is, it is just an urgency matter. It is an emergency cleanup matter is what it is, so that has to go along and be done in tandem with the actual investigation. It is just a different type of beast is what I have seen in my years. I don't know if that answers your question. Mr. Cummings. Yes. I am just wondering, it sounds like you were saying that you think there should be some national standard. Mr. Sommer. Yes, I do. Mr. Cummings. OK. Mr. Sommer. I really do, and I---- Mr. Cummings. You have heard arguments on the other side of that, right? Mr. Sommer. Not all of them, obviously. Mr. Cummings. Well, the main ones. Well, when we talk about like some of these products are easy to get over the counter-- -- Mr. Sommer. Right. Mr. Cummings [continuing]. You have the Retailer Association coming in, and they talk about how it is going to kill their business, I mean it will hurt them. Some retailers are being--I think Chairman Souder in his opening statement said you might be in a position to where Target and Wal-Mart might be able to sell these things, but then a lot of your other businesses would have--it would be onerous. And, you know, it is--and I think he and I, before we heard the testimony, we were pretty--we hadn't really considered all of that. But the testimony was quite--I mean, it left you saying, ``Well, you know, you have a point here.'' The problem is, though, when we look at methamphetamine and the damage that is done by these drugs, sometimes you have to use urgent and--urgent solutions and solutions that might be a burden to some of you in society to get to the problem, to deal with it, when you see the damage and you see what is happening to our children and you see all of the social services being tied up, and what have you. And so I think we--I think what we need to try to do is find some kind of balance whereby--and I don't know what that balance is. I think we have been trying to struggle with that a bit, where you do make sure that certain products, people have to go through--if they are intent on using those products illegally, have some kind of barrier to them getting them, but at the same time have the free flow of commerce. and where that balance is we are still trying to figure out. Mr. Sommer. I think, too, that the--instead of each State doing their own thing---- Mr. Cummings. Yes. Mr. Sommer [continuing]. I think you need uniformity, because if one State is very strict, like Oklahoma, and 80 percent of the labs are--Mom and Pop labs are--have diminished over the last year. Of course, they are going to get imported stuff. But if one State is doing it, and the other State is not, then the State that is not doing it, then the stuff will be shipped over, or they will go over and they use the smurfing technique, obviously, because a lot of these meth operators, they are almost set up like co-ops. You get the chemicals, you get this kind, you get this kind. So I think that we need uniformity and leadership on that end of it. And it is an emergency, and I think this is a tremendous wakeup call for this country. And if some manufacturers are inconvenienced, my opinion as a law enforcement guy, so what? It is saving people's lives, and this kind of---- Mr. Souder. We had a very interesting debate between Kansas and Oklahoma when Oklahoma had just put in their law, because Kansas actually reduced the Mom and Pop shops more than Oklahoma with the Meth Watch program than Oklahoma did with the Pharmacy program. What it takes is a concerted effort of the local people to pay attention, and the law enforcement to work at it. And we need some kind of combination of these type of things. But we are getting kind of a uniform, in my opinion, simplistic answer for law enforcement right now that it is just the pseudoephedrine control when other communities have done other things. It has to be part of it, whether it is blister packs, wholesale, over the counter, and hard. But as I pointed out informally, this stuff is going to go to the Internet. And everybody in law enforcement knows it is tougher when it hits the Internet than when you are selling it at a local grocery store, because we can find them when they are coming in as a physical person. We can find them when they use cell phones. The tough problem here is, as we are finding with the Colombians and the Mexicans and everywhere else, is that when this stuff goes underground, it is gone. And we have to make sure that in the short term, trying to get a quick fix, we aren't actually creating a bigger potential problem, and not to mention the fact that Dayton doesn't have a problem. How much do you restrict, because of the rural areas around it, the city of Dayton? It is a political problem. I mean, I have been as aggressive as anybody in the Nation on this, and we brought the Oklahoma program in to help publicize it. But we have to, when we are looking at narcotics, get a step ahead and think a step ahead, not just what is the immediate fix, of which this may be the immediate fix. By the way, now that so many States have moved, it is not clear we can get a national standard anymore, because usurping State law, because we would--the national law proposed is weaker than many of the State laws. I can imagine very many Congressman from a home State are going to want to say, ``We want to do a weaker law.'' In Indiana, we have, after a big battle, passed a law. And if I now, all of a sudden, decide to jump on the bandwagon and do one and unseat the State law, we now have another political problem, because this has kind of gone in this tidal wave through the States. But it clearly has to be addressed, and we have to get at the pseudoephedrine. The question is: what is the best way to get the pseudoephredine? And it was a very interesting point just a minute ago that Mr. Oetjen made when he said that, in effect, he hasn't, by the--much of our midwest was coming through Canada, and that we took down the big group, and the question is: who is going to replace it? Or did we actually, if, in fact, the superlab stuff isn't coming through as much, what is going to be the net replacement from that? And if we replace Canada with Mexico, you know, I don't know that I want to make that trade. That it is a really difficult process to work through here. We are all doing the best we can, but it is a huge challenge that we are trying to work out as it moves east and moves urban. Mr. Cummings. Just one last question. You know, one of the things that--our being here today focuses on the problem here. And I am just wondering, I mean, perhaps it would be good for the local law enforcement officers to talk about this, too. I think our greatest weapon in most crimes, our greatest agent to fight crime, are citizens. I mean, I have practiced law for 20 years, 25. When you don't have citizen input, you can forget law enforcement. And I am just trying to figure out, I mean, what--you have these cameras here, and I am just wondering, you know, what would you say that citizens can do to help to fight this? What is going on here with methamphetamines, because it is in every nook and cranny? It is everywhere. I mean, so--and they are everywhere. And you have a lot of people--I think our citizens--and Mr. Turner can tell us better about that. I think they are aware of how bad the problem is and they see the effects. And a lot of people say, ``Well, there is nothing I can do about it.'' I am just wondering, what would you have them do? Mr. Sommer. I think it is an awareness problem, and it is also--I mean, whether you establish a national hotline, whatever you do, you need more watch groups. But to start with, to educate them on--there is really--there are some people that aren't even aware of what to look for. They don't have the indicators. Mr. Cummings. I see the officer shaking his head behind you. Mr. Sommer. But it is true. We need to get a campaign going, a national campaign. And whether you set up hotlines or whatever you do, I know in Hawaii they did--when they had the crystal meth, they took the whole weekend out and had a bunch of people call in. And I think it was on every station out there for a while, and they blitzed the public. Something needs to be done, but I agree with that--we are only as good as our intelligence in the community, and it is the backbone of law enforcement. Mr. Cummings. So you don't think our Media Campaign--you think our Media Campaign has to have meth in there. Mr. Sommer. Oh, yes. Mr. Cummings. Big time. Mr. Sommer. Oh, yes. Absolutely. It is here. It is here, and we can't ignore it. It is here. What I am concerned about, I am digressing a little bit, or going off, is one of the biggest things happening are the gangs in the cities. And Mr. Oetjen picked up on it with the city, the problems with the cities, and I mentioned with the crack and the heroin. When the gangs pick up on it, it is going to run really fast and furious, I believe, because it is a product. They are all into selling the drugs. And it is just a matter of the gang activity picking up on it, even though most of it is coming in from the rural area. Mr. Oetjen. Congressman, just to go one step further, you are absolutely right. It has to be a total package or it is not going to work at all. We have in the past, and just recently here in Ohio, had methamphetamine summits. We talk about treatment and prevention, and try to embrace the total cooperation. But as you well know, along comes violence with that, and a lot of people are afraid to step forward. We encourage it, and we wish there was more. But, you know, it is hard to sell that to a citizen who is afraid, afraid of their life, so---- Mr. Cummings. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Souder. Mr. Turner. Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, ranking member, for your thoughtful approach to this issue. I appreciate not just the expertise that you bring, but the thoughtful discussion of, what do we need to do to address this? And, Ranking Member Cummings, I think that your last discussion, the focus on the issue of what do we need to do with the general public, is an important one when we talk about issues of controls, and we talk about the issues of the recipe, if you will, of making meth. I know we all note that the front cover of Newsweek most recently talked about the meth epidemic. And one of the things that strikes me in this is that, as we look at the meth epidemic, there appears to be clear evidence that the use of meth results in the destruction of lives, that this may be one of the most addictive drugs that we have faced in our communities, and that anyone who makes a choice to use this drug is making a choice that could be permanent to their life, both the changes in the structure of the brain, the addiction level that they have, and the destructive forces. Now, as we look to law enforcement, we look to trying to find those who are selling it, find those who are making it, you have a tremendous wealth of information that the public needs to learn about the effects of this drug. And I wonder to what extent that we are harnessing the information that you have about the impacts on people's lives who have used this drug, so that we can communicate to people on the demand side that this is a dangerous drug, that this will destroy their lives, that they need to stay away from meth, that they need to report individuals who are trafficking in meth. To what extent are we, or how could we do a better job, by making certain that the information you have of the destructive forces of meth can get into the hands of our children and the people who are making the decisions to avoid this drug? Mr. Oetjen. Well, again, historically the Town Hall meetings sponsored by the city fathers and police departments that I have participated in seem to have worked very well and opened the eyes of the common citizen out there who has no idea what methamphetamine is or the dangers behind it. Awareness is the key. I mean, and we participate in these events routinely, probably not enough, but we have a demand reduction coordinator for two States. And they are constantly going around, speaking to schools and high schools and public events, to make them aware of these, not just methamphetamine but everything. Mr. Sommer. Basically, my take on it is to bring it to their attention and use it, not only through the community outreach programs, but also to cities, making sure that the workers in the cities know what to look for, look for the dump sites. The people that are out there daily working with--just picking up the roads, the road hazards, and this sort of thing. And also, but I think the attention that you are--this committee is putting on it, and the pressure they are putting on this, is very admirable, because, just like the article you have there in your hands, it has the media's attention now. What we have to do is continue the pressure, keep using the media to put the message out there, follow it up with some kind of a national campaign. I think probably the most effective thing for this hearing today, if we brought in a family, a family that has been nearly destroyed through the use and abuse of meth, and to have the public see them and see what it has done to them and how it has destroyed their family, their kids, animals, I mean everything in the family. This is the kind of thing that we need is the public to see that path of destruction. I spoke with a very hardened detective the other day, and I said something about, ``We are going to talk about some things. You know, what do you think about treatment?'' He just snapped back, ``There is no treatment. There is no treatment for this drug abuse. It is so severe.'' And I am sure that is not quite that extreme. There has to be some type of treatment. But based on what he has seen, he has never seen--he has always seen relapses, or other people could get hooked into it, and I think the public needs to know it is a sentence of death once they start it. It is just not a casual drug, and it is not a recreational drug. It is an absolute--might as well put a gun to your head and kill yourself. I think they need a very strong message, and it needs to be put out there. Mr. Turner. I think one of the most effective things that we saw in the Newsweek articles, and in the other articles that have occurred, are the pictures of the faces of meth when they talk about the impacts of the decline that you see in individuals who have begun to use this drug. I think that is absolutely correct. If we can get that story out, if we can get the words out as to the impacts of this drug, that this is a permanent decision, that this is not a recreational decision, that can have a real impact. So I encourage both of you, as you look to the information that you have and the need to get that information out to the public, that you do that, because you will know more than we ever will, and you will have direct evidence that people know what is going to happen to their lives. Mr. Sommer, you also said one thing that I was not aware of, and that was anhydrous ammonia--you talked about it as a way to make it so that it is unusable in this process, rendering it unusable for this. Could you describe that a little bit more? Mr. Sommer. The only thing I know is that there is some research being conducted right now--I want to say it is in Iowa, I am not sure, a college. But what they have done--there were two thoughts of that. No. 1, they were going to try to put something in it, so when it was being stolen it would act like a tracer, similar to like a bank robbery drive back or something. And then, the other thought was, well, let us make it so that it cannot be used, you know, in the making of meth. And to me that is the wiser thing is to just make it so it cannot be used. But they are doing some experimentation on it right now with the manufacturers to make it still usable as a fertilizer. It is primarily used for corn. And I think that would help. I think if they could push that a little bit more, and push that along to the manufacturers, and I could get more information for you on that, but I think that is an idea. Now, there is actually a case, though, where there are some chemists--there are some chemists out there that actually have the capability of coming up with that chemical themselves. Anhydrous ammonia is extremely rare, but for the most part it is stolen and used. And if not used directly, it is sold to those who are the operators of the meth labs. Mr. Turner. Thanks for your hard work that you are doing to combat this, and your bringing information forward that we might be able to implement. I appreciate also your discussion of the national standards issues, because it does look as if we don't have a margin of error here, since this is a life destructing drug. As we look to the chemicals that make this recipe, I think the discussion of both the chairman and the ranking member on ways to restrict its availability are very important. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Souder. Thanks. Nick Coleman has been our internal specialist on meth, and I was just asking him, because this comes up in my district all the time, about the anhydrous ammonia. And what we need as we look at a meth package is to figure out what things we can do with the precursor chemicals in the brief point there, which is that we have been funding this for a long time, and we hear different things about red dye, and we are going to do this kind of stuff. And, quite frankly, none of it works because it appears that every time they think they have a breakthrough, what it does is it reduces the value of the anhydrous ammonia. Furthermore, if we do solve the anhydrous ammonia, they may switch to iodine or other types of things that could be equally as effective. So we are trying to figure out how we can do this in some of our fall legislation, and we are going to plunge in. I have a couple of followup questions yet. One is, on the Kentucky program, the $300 containment, we are going to be down in Chairman Rogers' district within the--certainly within 60 days, maybe within 30, to look at some of this. He raised this to me, I believe. Do you know, is that in his district, and, in Kentucky, Harold Rogers? Mr. Oetjen. Yes, sir. It is in 10 Kentucky State Police posts throughout the State. Some of them are in his district. Mr. Souder. And can you provide, so we have the record and can start to look at it, what that exactly is? Because that would be a huge breakthrough, and I don't understand why it is not spread wider, if you can do a $300 containment on this. Mr. Oetjen. A summary of the program? Mr. Souder. Yes. Mr. Oetjen. Yes. Mr. Souder. With some of the details, and we can maybe ask some questions. But if you can get a draft of that to the committee. Mr. Oetjen. Sure. Mr. Souder [continuing]. Then we will follow-up and get that from Kentucky State Police before we get down there, because that is something we ought to be looking at in the fall, because one of the biggest problems we are going to hear is how we have to wait to get a cleanup lab, and the cost that a local county can't do, and if there is a way to address that. You also made a reference in your statement about club drugs and seeing it show up in rave. Mr. Oetjen. Methamphetamine show up at raves, yes. Mr. Souder. In Ohio, in your district, or is that just---- Mr. Oetjen. I can't give you a specific instance, but this is what I was told. Mr. Souder. OK. If you can find anything more particular about that, we have been watching Ecstasy closely. If this turns into a club drug, we have a whole other problem. Mr. Oetjen. OK. Mr. Souder. And, Mr. Sommer, on the HIDTA funding question, you were authorized, because you expanded for HIDTA for an additional $644,000 in funding, did you actually receive any of that? Mr. Sommer. Not yet. And what they did was when they authorized those counties, I was told that it was going to be base funding, they would level fund us up to that amount. We have not received it, and they put it into a package of discretional funding, which we are supposed to be getting at the end of the month. Those counties are still left high and dry for this year. We have not been given the money for 2005, and we are waiting for that. Mr. Souder. So they added it to the HIDTA, so you have more territory but the same amount of money. Mr. Sommer. Right now, we have more territory, the same amount of money. The ONDCP did promise the funding would be coming. Again, it is very difficult doing this, and you know the restrictions on ONDCP. We are supposed to spend the money-- -- Mr. Souder. They never have enough. Mr. Sommer [continuing]. Only in the counties, you know, that have been authorized, but you have Clermont County right down the road that is about third highest in the---- Mr. Souder. And why wasn't that authorized, then? Mr. Sommer. They are not authorizing. You have Astabula County next to Cuyahoga that is about second highest. But we still try to do the best we can with what we have. Mr. Souder. So let me ask this question. Since we have seen the figures in meth have been doubling in Ohio, did that play a factor in adding the counties to it? Mr. Sommer. Definitely. What they did was---- Mr. Souder. But if that is the case, why didn't the second and third largest get added? Mr. Sommer. The way those counties were added, the history on it was they were originally going to make that a separate HIDTA, so they began doing their own threat assessment, the U.S. District--or U.S. Attorneys Office, Southern District. And they came up with their threats that didn't include the meth at that time. Mr. Souder. So the answer to the question is they expanded the HIDTA, but not because of the meth problem. Mr. Sommer. That is right. Mr. Souder. Because your second and third biggest counties weren't included. Mr. Sommer. That is correct. Mr. Souder. So that meth wasn't considered the drug threat in Ohio. Mr. Sommer. That is correct. Mr. Souder. If we polled the counties in Ohio, do you think they would consider meth--we heard this county thing that said that meth was the highest threat in the Nation. In Ohio, we find a similar thing, and how does that interrelate to where our DEA task forces are and our HIDTA? Mr. Sommer. I think the meth situation has been growing so rapidly that another fresh look at the State of Ohio, in my opinion I would include those counties. Mr. Souder. Very wise and careful choice of words. [Laughter.] Let me ask one other thing. It seems to me that one of the problems--we have been trying to figure out how--we have been down to EPIC multiple times, met with risk and all the different alphabet soup. I mean, we have seven different intelligence centers just in El Paso, collecting data. And it is clear the data is incredibly inaccurate. Mr. Sommer. Exactly. Mr. Souder. And that there just isn't any other way to say it, and DEA is trying to get on top of it, and EPIC, but every hearing we do, the lab takedown totals from the local police do not match. In other words, in Arkansas, for example, they had taken down more labs in one county than they were reporting for the State. But what I learned is that the figures--that Arkansas was no more off than any other State, so there is some kind of--I don't know whether they are just not reporting. The other thing is that drug court data in the urban area seems--they are having to deal with them right there, they have the cases, and it is almost like a lead indicator. My question is: do you have or use drug court data? And we don't have national drug court data, but I am wondering if the HIDTAs and the DEA task forces look at the drug courts as well in accumulating what your highest risk things are? Because the drug court guy is having to deal with the cases right in front of him, he is trying to decide whether they are going to be incarcerated or released. He is trying to decide what treatment program to put them in. So they have to do a poly drug analysis of which is the driving drug. And what we are finding out is that the meth is the driving drug in much of this, that if you can't control the meth you can't control the individual. But that data isn't even coming into the law enforcement system, from what I can tell. Mr. Sommer. I would just like to mention that in our threat assessments, we use the ADAM reports, and I know they are under threat of loss of funding, and we do use all the data we can get to put the threat together, to answer that one question. The other question I would like to just bring up for--or you brought up was on the clan lab, the national clan lab system. You are 100 percent correct. The figures are very difficult. We are trying to work on that. The HIDTA, on the national level, pushed that system, tried to put it together. But what is happening is this--the 143 Form, the DEA form that they came up with, it is a voluntary form, a lot of local law enforcement officers will not submit it, or they submit it late. And then, the other problem with reporting--the State of Ohio has another reporting system where they may be reporting dump sites or just glassware, and not an actual active clan lab, you know, with bombs going off and everything, chemicals and this kind of thing. So there--we need to get our hands around that, and we are working on it. I know that the directors, the HIDTA directors, and at our meetings we brought that up about how to make sure we have more accurate reporting. Perhaps maybe we need a requirement in the local and State law enforcement agencies that require them to submit the form, maybe some type of--even a penalty if they don't. But there is really no followup. Mr. Cummings. Just one more question. Mr. Sommer, you said some very kind things about the HIDTA program, and I was just wondering, do you all communicate much with those folks, those HIDTAs in the west, and the Los Angeles HIDTA? I mean, I know the HIDTA in the region--I mean, your HIDTA, all of you all are working together, but is there a lot of discussion with regard to these kinds of problems from those other areas affected? Mr. Sommer. Yes. We do have connectivity with all 28 HIDTAs throughout the country. And, of course, in California, when they were talking about 1,400 labs a few years ago, us out east were like, OK, you know, it hasn't hit here yet, but we knew it was probably going to be coming. But we do communicate. We have a strategy that we worked on together, and we also support this national methamphetamine chemicals initiative that we have been doing. And what I would like to see actually is more of a national strategy put together, and where all HIDTAs, regardless of the amount of labs you are seeing, that we could put something together to-- not only on the awareness side of it, but also on the training side of it, because to get ahead of the curve, quite frankly, these labs--I don't see any end in them growing and heading east. So, but to answer your question, we do communicate regularly. We do have these summits. We do have meetings. And we share any ideas and best practices with each other, and particularly those that have been through it, before we have gotten to this point, this crisis, that we would learn through them. Mr. Cummings. Thank you. Mr. Souder. Thank you. We are going to take a brief recess. If the second panel could come forward. [Recess.] Mr. Souder. The subcommittee is back in session, or whatever the correct term is. Raise your right hands. [Witnesses sworn.] Mr. Souder. Let the record show that each of the witnesses responded in the affirmative. Thank you for your patience. Thank you for all of your years of work in this area, and we will look forward to hearing your testimony. We will start with Sheriff Vore. STATEMENTS OF DAVE VORE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY SHERIFF; RALPH FIZER, JR., CLINTON COUNTY SHERIFF; TOM ARISS, WARREN COUNTY SHERIFF; COMMANDER JOHN BURKE, GREATER WARREN COUNTY DRUG TASK FORCE; JIM GRANDEY, ESQ., HIGHLAND COUNTY PROSECUTOR; AND COMMISSIONER RANDY RILEY, CLINTON COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR STATEMENT OF DAVE VORE Mr. Vore. Thank you. I would like to begin today by offering my sincerest gratitude to the Congress of the United States, Committee on Government Reform, and the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources for holding this most important investigative hearing here at Wilmington College. Before becoming Montgomery County Sheriff in 2000, I served as the Commander for the combined agencies' Narcotics Enforcement Drug Task Force. This is a multi-jurisdictional task force that targeted upper-level narcotics traffickers. During my time as Commander in the mid-1990's, we rarely encountered the illegal drug methamphetamine. This problem was relegated in Missouri, Kansas, and other States west of the Mississippi River. Not anymore. Meth is marching--no, running--eastward and enveloping the whole Nation. Very few issues repeat the criminal cycle and resulting societal damage as this illegal drug activity does. While we in law enforcement and society are familiar with marijuana, cocaine, oxycontin, we are not as familiar with methamphetamine. This highly addictive stimulant, which is relatively cheap to manufacture, ensnarls the grip of addiction like a vice. According to a recent Federal estimate, more than 12 million Americans have tried methamphetamine. Law enforcement officers across the Nation have ranked meth as public enemy No. 1. This drug has affected the whole criminal justice system in a way unseen since the crack cocaine epidemic of the 1980's. Not even during the crack epidemic of the 1980's were normal law-abiding citizens affected as they are today, as a result of the assault of meth. Giant retailers such as Wal-Mart, Rite Aid, and others have removed non-prescription cold pills from unsecured product shelves. These products contain the active ingredient pseudoephedrine. Meth manufacturers or cookers extract this pseudo and then combine it with other chemicals like iodine and anhydrous ammonia. During the spring of 2004, the Miami County Sheriff's Office had seen a noticeable increase in the theft of the chemical, anhydrous ammonia. This chemical is illegally used as a fertilizer. Miami County is primarily a rural agricultural area. In the spring of 2004, my office assisted the Miami County Sheriff's Office with an officer-involved shooting incident. One evening a deputy was investigating a suspicious individual around an anhydrous ammonia tanker left near a farm field, which is normal in rural areas. The suspect had just opened a valve on the tanker, attempting to siphon off anhydrous ammonia, when something went wrong, sending a cloud of ammonia into the night air. Two deputy sheriffs confronted the individual, ordering him to the ground. Instead of following the deputy's order to get on the ground, the suspect reached into his waistband and pulled out a handgun. The suspect pointed his weapon at the sheriff's deputies. In defense of their lives, they fired their weapons, fatally wounding the suspect. Further investigation revealed the deceased was heavily involved in the use and manufacture of methamphetamine. This was a tragic result of his horrible addiction. According to the latest DEA drug task force info in 2004, approximately 20 methamphetamine labs were shut down in Montgomery County as a result of law enforcement efforts. In 2005 thus far, law enforcement has busted or cleaned up at least 30 methamphetamine operations in Montgomery County. One main problem for law enforcement trying to combat the manufacture of methamphetamine is the ability for its manufacturers to cook the product in any location. Although rural areas are preferred venues because of the pungent smell the cooking process emits, cookers have increasingly used vehicles as a point of manufacture. This creates a logistic nightmare for law enforcement officers when vehicles are discovered either to be engaging or previously engaged in the manufacture of meth. Toxic waste left by the manufacture of this drug is immense. For every 1 pound of meth, 5 pounds of toxic waste is left behind. In Montgomery County, during the last 6 months, my narcotics enforcement unit has encountered three meth labs operating out of vehicles. The city of Riverside just last month, located in Montgomery County, busted a meth lab operating in a garage in a residential area, which required the response of the Ohio Attorney General, Jim Petro's, Bureau of Criminal Investigation Clandestine Drug Lab Unit. This unit conducted the cleanup operation in this particular case. Because the materials used to manufacture meth are extremely dangerous, the response of trained personnel capable of handling self-contained breathing apparatuses, air tank, portable decontamination units, air purifying respirators, and other protective gear, are necessary and needed to be the standard operating equipment of all law enforcement personnel across the State of Ohio and the whole United States. If meth abuse reaches the levels seen by crack in the 1980's, our already overcrowded jail population will explode. Montgomery County and surrounding counties have recently built new jails or added new cells to handle the increased inmate populations resulting from already increased drug offenders. That is why we must stop meth in its track. Therefore, I ask the Federal Government to assist us in our effort on the front line in this war against meth, with its subsequent assault on our society by, No. 1, providing funding for law enforcement agencies to purchase specialized equipment, such as self-contained breathing apparatuses, portable decontamination units, air purifying respirators, to enable us to clean up labs when discovered; two, provide treatment for methamphetamine abusers and support systems for their children; three, keep funds available for HIDTA areas to combat the illegal drug traffickers. Again, I would like to thank all members of this committee for allowing me to address these concerns in our effort to combat the increasing tide of methamphetamine use in our community. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Vore follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.020 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.021 Mr. Souder. Thank you very much. Sheriff Fizer. STATEMENT OF RALPH FIZER, JR. Mr. Fizer. Thank you, Chairman Souder. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the invitation to testify before you today. I consider it an honor and a privilege to be able to speak to you, and I want you to know we appreciate the fact that the Federal Government is willing to take the time to listen to our concerns on the local level. Just to give you an idea, from August 2003 through this August 2005, we have had approximately 32 partial or working methamphetamine labs seized here in Clinton County. We are a very rural community, a lot of farm land. All of these seizures resulted in felony arrests of approximately 50 different individuals. There have been approximately 50 abandoned methamphetamine labs found in our fields or ditch lines throughout the county. There are currently approximately 30 more labs that we know of working right now today in Clinton County. The number of meth cooks grows rapidly. It is relatively simple to make, and the ingredients are easily attainable. Along with these meth labs, we have had approximately 70 to 80 reports a year for the past 2 years of anhydrous ammonia thefts. Again, as you saw when you came to our county today, we have a lot of farmland. The anhydrous tanks are usually parked at the edge of the fields and around barns. Just so far this year, in 2005, Clinton County has had 88 drug cases. Of those 88, approximately half of them are due to meth. Due to the meth use in Clinton County, we have also seen increases in home burglaries and thefts. Just a week ago, I myself responded with my deputies. A lady is frantic. Someone is beating in her back door, attempting to break into her house. We got there. Sure enough, the guy had made it into her house. Of course, he was arrested immediately. But his actions--we were pretty sure he was on some type of drugs. He was taken to a local hospital and, yes, he was on methamphetamine, in a small, local village here in our county. All of these cases where the burglars were on meth, the suspects were caught and taken to the local hospitals. The drug cases in this county have impacted our corrections facility. We built a new jail 4\1/2\ years ago here in Clinton County. I am overcrowded. It is busting at the seams, and it is mainly because of the methamphetamines here in Clinton County. I have a very aggressive detective division. There isn't a week to 2 weeks goes by that we don't bust some type of a meth lab or drug dealers here in Clinton County. We are doing everything possible we can to get them off the streets. The increase in the drug cases also affected our manpower, as it takes many hours to work these cases, along with the paperwork load, but it also affects our courts, our prosecutor's office, probation and parole offices. As a result of the increased felony case load in the court system, we are already looking at, along with our County Commissioners, possibly having an additional Common Pleas Court Judge. It is getting that bad. As the sheriff, my office is taking the initiative to warn and educate our local firefighters, township trustees, our local citizens, as to the dangers of meth. Methamphetamines-- the dangers of meth have been added to our DARE program, which is very big here in Clinton County. There are also citizens groups here in Clinton County, the Coalition for a Drug-Free Clinton County. They are trying to educate, along with our sheriff's office, educate the public and the kids to the dangers of meth. Our biggest problems we have, though, are the cleanups. In Clinton County, we have one officer trained in going in and cleaning it up. We have had two or three detectives on waiting lists trying to get in to get them trained. There is not enough training. DEA does an excellent job of assisting us in coming in and cleaning up the labs. However, they either have to come out of Columbus or into Annapolis. Again, it is taking 5 to 6 hours that we have to maintain these scenes, waiting for a cleanup crew. It is very expensive to my sheriff's office, especially when we are in a small rural community. Luckily, I have good County Commissioners that do try to assist us any way they can. So what we are asking on the Federal level is any assistance at all for additional training on the cleanup, anything DEA can do to give us more cleanup crews, so we are not tied up for hours and hours. I think the reason we have busted so many labs, too, is because of the awareness in Clinton County. We are a small community. The community calls my office constantly. We have a Web page that they are constantly e-mailing us, they think there is a meth lab here or there. Because of their help, the citizens have actually joined in to help the sheriff's office. And we are busting them right and left, but we need additional training and additional equipment. Thank you very much for the opportunity today. [The prepared statement of Mr. Fizer follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.022 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.023 Mr. Souder. For the hearing record, because these meth hearings are going to be kind of the main hearings that will be the official record of the United States on meth, and for reading them it would be helpful--and let me go back to the first two, and then each of you kind of, to the degree you are not from the same county--Sheriff Vore, if you could say--how big is Montgomery County? Mr. Vore. As far as population? Mr. Souder. Population. Mr. Vore. About 565,000. Mr. Souder. And how many narcotics officers do you have in your office? Mr. Vore. In my office, six. Mr. Souder. And, Sheriff Fizer, how big is---- Mr. Fizer. We are approximately 43,000. Mr. Souder. And how many narcotics officers do you have? Mr. Fizer. I have four detectives, one that works full-time narcotics, and that is it. Mr. Souder. OK. Thank you. Sheriff Ariss. STATEMENT OF TOM ARISS Mr. Ariss. Thank you, gentlemen. Chairman Souder, members of the committee, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today. I am Tom Ariss. I am the Sheriff of Warren County, OH, and Warren County is located in the southwestern part of the State of Ohio. It is the second fastest-growing county in Ohio. The population has grown from a 2000 Census of 152,000 to the present estimated population of almost 200,000. So rapid growth. I myself have been in law enforcement since 1957. I retired from the U.S. Highway Patrol, and I have served as sheriff for 13 years. I was in the Army as a military police officer, and I also worked with the Springbrook Police Department and the county court system as a bailiff and probation officer. Over these years, I have been involved in numerous drug types of cases. My most memorable event was a drug arrest involving a young man, local young man about age 20. I had arrested him for DWI and a failure to stop violation. In a subsequent search of this gentleman's vehicle, I found four large grocery sacks full of marijuana, over 200 hits of PCP and LSD. He was arrested for these drug violations. What keeps this case in mind--this is about a 30-year-old case--is that the gentlemen was--his age, and also prior to his case being heard in our local Common Pleas Court, this gentleman was killed up in Greene County, an adjacent county up the road here. And the reason he was killed--the information I got--was that he failed to pay for his drugs that I was fortunate enough to remove from the street and from him. It has been on my mind for many years. Warren County has a very active and, I might add, a very proactive and progressive drug task force program. It has been in effect for approximately 8 years. The success of this program is through the efforts of our county prosecutor, local Warren County police departments, our township police agencies, the Ohio Bureau of Identification and Investigations, the FBI, and also the members of our Warren County Sheriff's Office. The local townships, cities, and villages over the years are contributing to funding of our new drug task force. And the good thing about our Warren County Commissions--match dollar for dollar to keep this drug task force in operation. And without this funding, we would not be able to exist. Also, we have moneys from the Federal Byrne Grant to assist in this program. Additional funding resources could be enhanced if the Federal forfeiture funds could be allocated for the salaries of drug task force members. And my understanding is that Attorney General Gonzales can expand or permit the usage of these forfeiture funds. We presently work with the Ohio HIDTA group, which is based in Cleveland--you heard from Mr. Sommer earlier. We now have a HIDTA group for the southwestern Ohio area, which encompasses from Columbia to Dayton to Cincinnati, a huge triangle of many counties and very large populations. I presently chair the southwestern Ohio HIDTA group. Warren County has seen a large growth in the production of methamphetamine over the past years. And last year, 2004, our drug task force investigated eight meth lab cases. So far this year, 2005, the task force has been involved in 15 meth lab cases. As these numbers grow, we will more than likely triple the numbers from 2004. We, the local law enforcement agencies, have been involved in numerous types of meth labs, from the mobile to the hotel to the home to the garage and to the shed. Our most recent meth lab production operation involved locating the remnants of a lab in a local farmer's pond. The site work and cleanup are dangerous and very expensive. There are numerous recorded incidents in our county and all throughout the country involving meth labs where there have been explosions and injuries and where labs have even been booby-trapped. Gentlemen, we have been very, very lucky. Folks, quite frankly, the influx of the manufacturing and also the use of meth frightens me, unlike any of the other challenges that I have faced throughout my law enforcement career. If we think of those non-involved individuals who are victims of this scourge, and how it affects their lives and living conditions, it is very frightening. Remember the farmer whose pond is now contaminated with these dangerous chemical residues. The same applies to the motel and hotel proprietors. The costs associated with the cleanups of these sites is tremendous. The property is contaminated. There is definitely a true loss of the property values. I shudder to think when the innocent family rents the motel room next to the potential meth lab next door. The potential victims do not even know that they are sleeping next door to what is effectively a bomb. As citizens of this great Nation, we are acutely aware of threats of international terrorists. But I submit to you all that this epidemic is more of an immediate threat than the terrorist. Every one of us is a potential victim. This scourge crosses all lines of the social-economic strata. The poor, the rich, the doctor, the lawyer, the factory worker on his way to work, and the day laborer on her way back to home, could all be in danger. These drugs do not discriminate by religion or skin color. The drugs ruin our lives, and they can and do often kill. If everyone is not safe, then none of us are safe. As law enforcement executives, we owe our citizens nothing less than our full attention to this growing problem. Gentlemen, thank you very, very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Ariss follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.025 Mr. Souder. Thank you. Commander Burke. STATEMENT OF JOHN BURKE Mr. Burke. Thank you very much, Chairman Souder, and the committee. I appreciate, as the others have said, this opportunity for us to be here. I am in charge of the Warren County Drug Task Force, obviously in Warren County, OH. We also currently cover the city of Wilmington. We have an eight-person meth lab team that is in a 26-foot trailer that we were able to purchase through some forfeiture funds and a generous donation from the Procter & Gamble Co. So I do have eight people trained. One is actually a chemist with the Miami Valley Crime Lab, which is kind of unusual. But before I discuss the five things that I have listed, I wanted to just give you a little background about the first meth lab that we encountered, which was in July 2000. We were woefully prepared for this. We had purchased a small amount of methamphetamine, raided an almost abandoned farmhouse at the end of a 1,000-foot gravel driveway. And only by the grace of God did this first endeavor turn out to be successful, since we had no training or protective gear to minimize harm to all of us who drove down the long lane to the house. In that residence, we found over 50 automatic weapons, most ready to fire at a moment's notice, detonation cord, and a host of toxic chemicals, meth waste, and a small amount of methamphetamine. During the investigation, we became aware of child endangerment and abuse, domestic violence--two issues that are often present, as you well know by now, at these clandestine laboratories. On the first lab, we arrested four people and removed two children from their parents' custody by notifying our children's services department in Warren County. Although these adults were long-time methamphetamine users and showed signs of anorexia, little or no personal hygiene, paranoia, and drug- induced stupor, that seems commonplace with methamphetamine abuse. In almost 38 years of law enforcement, which included 32 years with the Cincinnati Police Department before coming to Warren County, I believe that methamphetamine is the most addictive drug on the planet. When abusers are willing to drink their own urine and smoke their own puss out of self-induced scratches in order to obtain the drug, it has a lethal attraction like no other substance of abuse I have encountered in my career. In talking about the five things in this few minutes that we have, I wanted to get to--I wanted to let you know, too, Mr. Chairman, that I was born in Fort Wayne, IN. My family is from Berne in the Decatur area, and I---- Mr. Souder. I thought your statement seemed extraordinarily intelligent. [Laughter.] Mr. Burke. I always say that I travel in Maryland quite a bit, too, as I--[laughter]--five separate things. The one thing that I think the sheriff touched on are the Byrne Memorial JAG Grants. These are grants that come from the Federal Government, as you know, and there has been a considerable reduction in this funding for local drug task forces to be potentially devastating in fighting the drug war. Ohio Drug Task Force grant moneys have been cut in half in most instances for 2006, with a much greater cut in a few more. Currently, there is no funding slated for drug task forces for calendar year 2007. This change will effectively cripple many drug task forces in 2006, and will likely eliminate others in 2007, if funding is not restored to its 2005 level. The clandestine methamphetamine problem and the increased abuse of crystal meth will put an even greater strain on the drug task forces in Ohio. I strongly urge that these grants under Byrne Memorial be restored to their past levels to ensure a continued pursuit of high-level drug traffickers. The Federal forfeiture revisions, which the sheriff also touched on, in these times of reduced revenue for governmental entities, the consideration of the expanded use of Federal forfeitures is very important. Currently, the Federal moneys can be used for a variety of things to combat the drug war, but salaries for people longer than--new employees for a year that cannot be used. This puts many drug task forces in the position of having substantial Federal forfeiture moneys accrued from participating and joint Federal-local drug investigations, but being unable to maintain their current personnel strength due to lack of enough State and local funding. This could put drug task forces in the position of having state-of-the-art equipment to address the drug problems, but not the funding to provide an investigator for its operation. My understanding is that U.S. Attorney General Gonzales can expand this use of Federal forfeiture funds to that of salaries of drug task force personnel that have been there longer than a year. This change may very well also be the difference between drug task forces surviving at their full strength or not at all. Since this change does apparently not require legislation, I would hope that it could be considered as one of the most expedient ways of allowing new funding for drug task forces, and this change would not require more taxes or governmental funding, only a small change in the current policies. Ohio HIDTA and, of course, Director Sommer was here--our region has recently been part of that program. HIDTA provides an enormous ability for us to cooperate with Federal and State law enforcement agencies. They have excellent training opportunities, investigative resources, a deconfliction program nationwide that foremost protects law enforcement officers while safeguarding major crimes. I feel that full funding of this program is crucial if we are going to continue to combat the drug problem in the United States. The influx of crystal meth just adds another drug requiring total law enforcement cooperation involving international substance of abuse. Clandestine lab cleanup, which is already in place--and we have not seen any indication that we didn't have that funding when we needed it. My people are site safety trained, so we get a number of these safety cleanup people that come right to our site. And we have not seen any dry-up of that money, but I just want to stress how important that money is for the future. The last thing I have, which is kind of specialized, because we do have a clan lab team, is the clan lab entry. The problem with entering meth labs when you have to--and we try not to while they are cooking, but it is not always that easy-- is the fact that you have one or two thoughts of going in. And one is you go in without protective gear, so that you have the full availability of being able to use your firearm if you have to. Of course, the problem with that is if you encounter toxic chemicals, then the officers become endangered without any masks or any other breathing apparatus. The second way is to go in with the full suits on, which we have, and then you restrict your amount of movement and the fact that you can use your firearm if you have to. What DEA does provide is specialized training that we would just like to see more of. It is excellent training, and it provides sending an entire team probably to Quantico, or they may come to Ohio where they would train as a unit, so that when we make these entries we are making them as safe as possible for the police officers. In conclusion, law enforcement continues to try and address the issues surrounding clandestine methamphetamine production in our jurisdictions. The efforts on clandestine meth require extensive training and equipment for law enforcement and good intelligence on those who are producing this addictive substance. Continuing education efforts are also vital and are the key to identifying those responsible. Continue with current cleanup programs to clandestine meth, along with forced entry training, would be welcome. The introduction of crystal meth has already started in Ohio, and will likely continue to grow, especially as new legislation will likely take place concerning the sale of pseudoephedrine products. Crystal meth is likely to be more potent, with bigger profit margins and more overdose deaths. Crystal meth will need to be combated in much the same way as we combat currently cocaine and marijuana, which also has a Mexican nexus. We about a year and a half ago seized 11 pounds off of a person in a small township in our county. Crystal meth was worth well over half a million dollars just here in Warren County. Now more than ever, while Homeland Security needs make for strained drug enforcement budgeting, increased funding is needed for drug task forces. Money for personnel, overtime, equipment, and good training is paramount, the need to restore grant moneys to 2005 levels and relax the Federal forfeiture policies to allow us to pay for salaries of drug task force agents that may need to be laid off if relief is not forthcoming. In addition, the best way I see to promote Federal-local drug law enforcement cooperating, producing excellent cases, is to continue the funding to ONDCP for the HIDTAs. HIDTA can be the glue that keeps the Federal-local entities together, working toward a common goal of reducing the influx of these substances in the United States, while arresting and prosecuting those responsible for its distribution. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Burke follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.026 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.027 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.028 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.029 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.030 Mr. Souder. Thank you. Mr. Grandey. STATEMENT OF JIM GRANDEY Mr. Grandey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. I appreciate the invitation to come here today. And just as an aside, Congressman Cummings, I had a brother-in-law who did most of the architectural work for the revitalization of downtown Baltimore. And so I am familiar with your district as well. Mr. Cummings. Yes. We have representatives from just about all of downtown. Yes. Wonderful. Mr. Grandey. As I indicated, my name is Jim Grandey. I am the Highland County prosecutor. My office is located in Hillsboro, OH. Highland County has approximately 44,000 residents. I took office on January 1, 2001. Since that time, we have presented 193 methamphetamine-related cases to the Highland County Grand Jury, 27 in 2001, 45 in 2002, 54 in 2003, 52 in 2004, and 15 this year-to-date in 2005. At that same time, my total felony case load has increased from 129 cases in 2000 to 315 cases in 2004, and 203 so far in 2005. We have had two deaths which were directly related to the manufacture of methamphetamine in my county. As has been stated here before, methamphetamine is beyond a doubt the most addictive drug that I have seen. Many times the defendant is arrested for manufacturing and/or possession, he bonds out of jail, and upon being served with the indictment is found to be manufacturing or possessing or using again. We have had at least two defendants who were incarcerated in the State penitentiary, one for 2 years, one for 3 years. And shortly--I mean, shortly--after their release from the State penitentiary, they were indicted again for manufacturing. That is something you don't see in your other crimes. Normally, if you would have somebody who commits a robbery, they will lay low for a while while you are prosecuting them. You may get them later later on, but with methamphetamine it is constant, and it is something that I know the other counties share as well. In response to this phenomenon, Judge Hoskins of the Highland County Court of Common Pleas amended his bond schedule to increase the bond amounts for anyone who is indicted on a methamphetamine-related charge. This has kept the offenders in jail rather than out manufacturing, but it has created other problems. One, it has increased the amount of inmates in our new county jail, which is overcrowded, and causing budgetary concerns for the county. Also, it shortens the try-by time in which my office must bring an accused to trial. Shortening the try-by time puts added pressure upon my office and upon the court to resolve the cases, along with the other cases which are pending. In a county that only has one general division judge, and a felony prosecuting staff consisting of myself and one assistant, the increase in the case load and the shortening of the time to process the cases has put an extreme pressure on the criminal justice system. In addition, very few, if any, of the defendants can afford to hire their own attorney. Thus, the cost of court-appointed counsel has increased in the county as well. In 2000, Highland County paid $175,752.78 for court-appointed counsel. In 2004, the county spent $314,582.12, and has paid $206,633.05 as of August 15, 2005. This increase has been complicated because the reimbursement from the State has been reduced from 50 percent to 28 percent, and we are told it is going to be reduced down to 25 percent. Some people may ask why there are so many cases in Highland County. First of all, we are rural. Second, there is an ample supply of chemicals necessary for production, especially anhydrous ammonia. And, in addition, the recipe for manufacturing methamphetamine is readily available on the Internet, and, believe it or not, in the local library. What can be done to help smaller counties in their fight against methamphetamine? We need financial assistance to offset the increased costs of providing court-appointed counsel and housing those charged with methamphetamine-related crimes. It is my belief that the cost of court-appointed counsel should be paid from the State or Federal funds rather than from a local level. From a non-monetary perspective, it is my belief that increased penalties with longer mandatory sentences would help. In addition, mandatory fines need to be made mandatory and not able to be relieved because a defendant claims to be indigent. He or she may be indigent today but may not be later on and should be required to pay all mandatory fines. In addition, increasing the try-by times for methamphetamine-related crimes would be a help. With the 3 to 1 ratio that we have now, those defendants who are in jail need to be brought to trial within 90 days. Increasing that just to 120 days would be a help to my office. There has been talk this morning about taking Sudafed and other products, putting them behind the counter. I am not opposed to that. However, as you have heard before, that does not prevent the manufacturers from obtaining these products. It may be an inconvenience for them, but they will still get it. What it does do, though, is you and I as consumers, it puts an added burden upon us. We have had some pharmacies who restrict the amount of packages you can buy. My secretary buys three different kinds for her family, and the pharmacy she goes to won't sell her three. So she has to go back. I applaud their efforts, but I am not sure that is going to keep the manufacturers from getting the products. Any help that this committee and the Federal Government can do to help us not only with the financials, but also in the enforcement that we have heard about this morning, would be greatly appreciated. And I know every small county here in Ohio is more than willing to work with you to try to seek a solution to this problem. I know it has put an extreme burden upon my office. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Grandey follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.031 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.032 Mr. Souder. Thank you. Commissioner Riley. STATEMENT OF RANDY RILEY Mr. Riley. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, as County Commissioner, I am delighted to be here today representing Clinton County, a traditional rural county which is currently going through the leading edge of what is anticipated to be a very significant growth period. The city of Wilmington, the county seat of Clinton County, has been designated as a micropolitan area with a population of over 12,000 people. The remainder of the county is compromised of seven incorporated villages, ranging in size from just a few hundred residents to well over 4,000. There are 13 townships in Clinton County. The total population of the county is just over 40,000 people. Almost half of the county residents live in the townships outside of the incorporated areas. Clinton County, because of its location and transportation infrastructure, is a rapidly growing area. Several industries and businesses have recently moved here. We anticipate significant growth in the next few years. With the anticipation of population growth also comes an anticipated growth in crime. Methamphetamine use in Clinton County has already reached the crisis level. Law enforcement officials throughout the county are spending a considerable portion of their time dealing with the consequences of the ever-growing methamphetamine problem. But the problems surrounding the increased use of methamphetamine in this rural community go far beyond law enforcement. Lives that could be active and productive are being lost to this insidious drug. Children whose parents are caught up in the methamphetamine trap are abused, neglected, and are being raised in an extremely dangerous environment. Meth is called ``poor man's cocaine'' for a good reason. The ingredients are available locally, and it is not difficult or expensive to make. When discussing the most highly addictive, life destroying drugs, most people generally think of heroin and cocaine. Now, we must add methamphetamine to that short list. But there is a big difference. Heroin is not grown in North America. The poppy fields of southeast Asia are half a world away. Efforts to halt the growth and distribution of heroin are ongoing, but those efforts are taking place far from Clinton County. Cocaine crops from South American countries certainly find their way to the United States, but the growth and initial production of cocaine takes place a continent away. Efforts to halt the growth and distribution of cocaine are ongoing, but those efforts are taking place far from Clinton County. However, with methamphetamine, we have an entirely different, more complex, and much more devastating problem. We know that most of the large, bulk production of methamphetamine takes place in Mexico and the southwestern portions of the United States. The drug is then shipped and distributed to addicts around the country. Bulk production is certainly a problem. But in this area it is the small ``Mom and Pop'' cookers who are wrecking havoc with the lives of our citizens. Unlike heroin and cocaine, which comes from distant countries, everything you need to make methamphetamine is available right here in Clinton County. Gentlemen, within a half a mile of where we sit, I could find everything I would need to start a lab, make enough meth to get high, and have enough meth left over so I could sell it to make enough money to start making another batch. You can even go to the Internet, select a search engine, type in ``How to Make Meth,'' and you will find on the Web site a method, a prescription, a recipe that very clearly describes two different methods of methamphetamine production. There is even a frequently asked question section for cookers who might be having problems. I have spoken to law enforcement officials and pharmacists about this situation. One solution keeps coming up. We have to make it more difficult to get the ingredients. Ephedrine and pseudoephedrine must be more difficult to obtain. There needs to be a tracking system to find out who is buying ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, when it is being bought, where they are buying it, and where these folks live. When it is discovered that one or two people who live with or near each other are all buying ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, we must be able to take legal action. And, very importantly, we must be able to protect the children who live in these highly dangerous environments. Methods must also be explored to see if ways can be found to track the other highly toxic ingredients which are also readily available in our community. In conclusion, gentlemen, methamphetamine, besides destroying the lives of users, is also destroying the lives of innocent children and has become a major law enforcement problem and societal problem right here in Clinton County. We welcome any help you can give us in dealing with this problem. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Riley follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.033 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5173.034 Mr. Souder. Thank you. I am going to do something a little unusual. I would like--is David Priest still here? Could you come forward and get one of those chairs. We are going to swear you in. [Witness sworn.] Mr. Souder. Let the record show that he responded in the affirmative. Priest is P-R-I-E-S-T. My understanding is that you have been a meth addict and are recovering. Could you just tell us a little bit of your story? Court Reporter. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Could you please move the mic closer to him? Thank you. Mr. Souder. Will that work? OK. She does the court record. So when we do the record, hopefully we have an accurate representation. Getting a word turned around here or there can be very critical when you are dealing with this kind of issue. Thank you. Let me know if you can hear. I am going to have--Nick is our legal counsel for the committee. I need to have him describe, for your own protection, what you need to say and not say. Mr. Coleman. I am not your attorney, but I can tell you, obviously, you are testifying under oath. You do not have to testify as to any illegal activities that you may have participated in for your own legal protection. Obviously, that is your choice to make, but I just want to make sure that you are aware that you don't have to testify specifically about any illegal activities that you yourself participated in. Just so you are aware of that. Your choice. Mr. Turner. Mr. Chairman, if I could just add, Mr. Priest, from what I understand, you have very compelling testimony for us on the personal impacts and effects. And I just wanted to make certain that you were aware that being under oath any testimony that you would provide--that you would not be required to provide about manufacture or sale of meth. Since it would be testimony that you would be giving under oath, it would have criminal implications for you. But we don't want that to inhibit your ability to tell what is an incredibly important personal story, but did want you to be aware of that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Souder. Thank you. I am not an attorney, but it sure sounded scary to me. [Laughter.] Thank you for being willing to talk to us. Mr. Priest. Meth was very attractive to me, because at the time I liked to speed and try it, and it lasted so long. It is like a 3-day type of thing, so it would be like a speed buzz for 3 days. That attracted me to it. But then, instantly the group of people that were doing that, I saw them starting to lose their minds, and I wanted to get away from it. And it was almost impossible. It was like the only way to get away from it was to cut them off, get them away from it, because they were--they cooked. They were making it themselves. And I don't think we are getting as much imported here as-- I mean, that is not the root of the problem, in this small community anyway. I think most of it is manufactured around here. I have wanted to quit almost from the time that I did it, and the easiest--the only way to do that was to discontinue going around those people at all. Mr. Souder. How is it different than other--anything else you have ever taken on yourself? And why was it harder? Mr. Priest. Harder to quit? You just--it is part of the addiction thing. You justify it a hundred ways, and it was so much easier to justify. It was part of---- Mr. Souder. Did you think about it all the time? Did it impact your ability to work or your family? Mr. Priest. Yes. I thought I needed it to make it, to get up the next day, you know, to get moving. Yes, and I destroyed my entire--everything. It tends to make you want to tweak, like try to make things better than they were. And what you end up doing is destroying what you have, and, you know, I pretty much had to dig a hole. I was at the bottom. I couldn't get anywhere, and finally that is when I-- actually, I left the State for about 3 weeks or so just to get those guys to realize it. Don't even want them to come visit me anymore, because it was like I wanted to quit, and it just kept finding me. And I am sure that is an excuse, that is justifying it, whatever. That is just how it went. And the rehab programs, I tried those. That didn't work. I don't know that those programs could really help someone that was addicted to it. Mr. Souder. Do you think it is hard to find here? Mr. Priest. No, it is so easy to find here, because everybody is cooking it. It is hard to find someone that don't have some association. Mr. Souder. Do people teach each other how to cook it, or how do---- Mr. Priest. Yes, that is what happens. A guy sees he is about ready to get caught, because, I mean, of course they always think you are about to get caught. But, so then he shows somebody else, so one guy gets taken down, and then two more come up. But I have noticed just from today--that is kind of why I came here, I wanted to see how things were going. They are doing a lot better. It is not as bad as what it was 2 years ago when I quit. Mr. Souder. Mr. Cummings. Mr. Cummings. OK. Do you have children? Mr. Priest. I just had one 11 months ago. Mr. Cummings. And this is--I mean, when you were using it, did it make you feel like--I mean, like you didn't care about keeping a job and things of that nature? And I take it that you feel like you have already beaten the habit, is that right? Do you believe you have? Mr. Priest. As long as I stay away from--I don't want to ever go around anybody that does it again. I mean, I have beat it, yes. I know what it does. I know where I will end up if I go back. And, yes, I feel like I have beat it, but you can never say, ``Well, I have beat it good enough to do it one time'' either, you know? I have been through multiple rehabs. I do know how all that stuff works. And one time, you know, it would turn into again, the same thing. So I can't say I have it beat. I don't think anybody could ever beat an addiction. Mr. Cummings. I know you are not here for this purpose, but you hear--have you heard any of the testimony of these officers? Mr. Priest. Yes. Mr. Cummings. Oh, good. Good. You know, I mean, and I know you are concerned about other people being involved in this, and these officers have talked about how, you know, even their lives and their men and the women that serve--their lives are on the line. And I will tell you, on my way here last night when I was driving through this rural area, you know, I thought about years ago how in Baltimore crack cocaine had gotten--and cocaine had gotten to be such a problem. And then, the next thing you know time goes on, and the next thing you have are generations. The grandfather is in jail, the father is in jail, and now the son is in jail. And I saw some of that. And so, I mean, how do you think--I mean, knowing what you know, is there a good way to try to help people not get addicted, No. 1, and try to stop these folks from--it sounds like you have--you are talking about a whole string. You know, you said one person is cooking, he thinks that these guys are right on his trail, so he calls up his buddies and says, ``Well, look, you know, I want three of you all to come over, because I am just about to go down so the three of you all, you do it,'' and the next thing you know it just doesn't stop. I mean, how do they address this? And how would we address it as a neighborhood, do you think, so that you don't get to that point where, like I described in Baltimore, we have generations, and that child has a baby less than 1 year old? You know, so your child doesn't end up where--doesn't have to go through what you went through. Do you follow me? Mr. Priest. Yes. That is kind of why I am here, to see---- Mr. Cummings. But I know you don't want to---- Mr. Priest. Yes, I wanted to see--that is why I am here. I wanted to see how you guys were working toward getting it that way. I think--I mean, of course, everybody thinks this--that Sudafed is--pseudoephedrine, whatever it is, that is the biggest problem with it. I mean, it is the people doing it, really. But if that was gone, it would be so much harder, and it would all be imported, and it would be a whole--it would be down with the cocaine. Cocaine has always got to be brought in. And with the methamphetamines, I can see it coming as people getting killed by--like I heard somebody's testimony there, how many guns were in there that were ready to be fired at that time. And I have seen it on the news also. People have come out shooting from--about to get their--I think that happened in Highland County maybe 3 or 4 years ago. It is going to progressively get worse, I mean, and it is getting worse already. And this is already in these people's minds, and it is just like it is going to happen sooner or later, and it already has several times. Being in a small town I guess is just---- Mr. Souder. In looking at the so-called home-cookers, which are different than the crystal meth, and often totally different people, and looking at the pseudoephedrine question at pharmacies, which we have been kind of going around about today, would the people you know--do any of them use the Internet? Mr. Priest. Use what? Mr. Souder. The Internet. Mr. Priest. Yes. Actually, a lot of them learned it from there. Mr. Souder. If they learned it from the Internet, and we restricted that to pharmacy, why wouldn't they just order the pseudoephedrine on the Internet? Mr. Priest. I just--actually, I just learned that today. I didn't know that was even possible. That kind of ruined that whole---- Mr. Souder. Do you have any friends up in Fort Wayne, which is farther north--we have whole bus groups that go across to Canada to bring pharmacies in, and the laws wouldn't restrict bringing Sudafed, where obviously whole groups of people go back and forth all day. And in the southwest United States, you see at each border crossing rows of pharmacies and people going back and forth all day within the limitations of what they can bring back in drugs. Do you believe the people are desperate enough in your area, who you know, that they would find that? Mr. Priest. I don't think they have the resources. They have dug theirselves holes. They are at the bottom of it, and they can't afford to get there to get it that way, actually. There is a lot of that, but there is also the bigger--like you were talking about, the glass or the ice or whatever, that is imported. Mr. Souder. It is a fascinating sub-question, because I believe for much of the market they would adjust. But it may be that, like you say, that the home-cookers are a unique subgroup that we actually could control through a different program targeted at the local pharmacy distribution, because if they are disconnected and not into the normal networks, and don't have resources--of the people that you have known, without getting names or implicating anything, would you say that in their patterns, do they worry at all about their kids? Mr. Priest. Their kids? No. Actually, they are sitting there worrying about the law. Mr. Souder. When we do a cleanup of a site, one of the things that we don't do, we get all the chemicals out, but the house is still dangerous. Is there any kind of discussion, or have you ever heard anybody discuss like, ``Hey, what is this stuff going to do to the people around me?'' or that kind stuff? Mr. Priest. They just don't care. They have a one-track mind, and that is, is the law watching me? Mr. Souder. Do most of the people have jobs? Mr. Priest. No. Actually, they lose their jobs within--I think maybe people might make it 6 months with a job. But once you get in one of those groups, I mean, they are actually cooking it right there, and it is just--you just don't--you lose your whole---- Mr. Souder. Do they drive a car? Mr. Priest. If they can get one. Mr. Souder. Do they drive it when they are high? I mean, can you--at what point does it become you are just---- Mr. Priest. With me, it was a problem. I couldn't do that. I actually got dizzy on it. But---- Mr. Souder. So would you still try to drive or---- Mr. Priest. I wouldn't, no. Mr. Souder [continuing]. People coming down the road? Mr. Priest. I know other people would, yes. I have seen several people drive in and drive out, and they have driven out after 3 days of---- Mr. Souder. One of our challenges is we have drunk driving laws, but we don't have very good drug-induced driving penalties, because if you are driving in that condition you are endangering everybody else on the road around you. Do you know anybody who has had fires? Mr. Priest. Yes, several places---- Mr. Souder. Or blowups. Mr. Priest [continuing]. Has burnt. Yes. Mr. Souder. Does that tend to sober them up at all about it, or does it---- Mr. Priest. No. I don't know how to knock sense into them, really, to be honest with you. Mr. Souder. Were any of the people that you know related to biker gangs? Is that a---- Mr. Priest. Actually, you know, one of them from Missouri actually, he came down and that is pretty much what brought a whole group that is still out there, still free. They are out of Missouri, but they don't have the money to be able to go get the drug, the ephedrine, anywhere else, or Sudafed, whatever you call it. They don't have the capability of going to get that somewhere else. They have Wal-Mart, wherever--you know, like gas stations has a---- Mr. Souder. Because they are broke because they have lost their jobs already, basically. Mr. Priest. Yes. Mr. Souder. They don't have many assets. Mr. Priest. All they can do is sell what they are making. Mr. Souder. Is it like crack in the sense of every city that has had crack will move to abandoned houses or different places if they--do they get desperate enough that they will look for---- Mr. Priest. I haven't seen that in the small towns. Actually, yes, in the rural areas, it is more like a camper out behind the house. Mr. Cummings. Mr. Chairman, I am going to have to leave, unfortunately, to catch a plane, but I just want to, first of all, I want to thank you for what you are doing. I want to thank all of you all for your testimony. And I really do--I mean, you have sat here and you all have said--you thanked us, but we thank you. We really do, because, you know, when I go to, sadly, to the funerals of police officers, it becomes so clear to me what you all go through in law enforcement. You don't know whether you are going to come home. And then, when we get testimony like what you just said, you know, you can find yourself in a situation where you are harmed, and the person who harmed you, you know, they are not even in their right mind at that moment. And we are committed, along with Representative Turner, to do everything in our power to assist you. And the testimony has been very helpful. Believe it or not, I have heard a lot of testimony, but I have learned some things here that I had not heard before. And we are all working together to try to make a difference, and so I just want to, again, thank you, and I want to thank you, too. But I want to leave you with a message, and it is really simple. That we can solve our neighborhoods' problems by all of us working together, and that is why your testimony is so important. These officers, they are just trying to keep people like you, your wife, and your neighbor safe. That is what--they eat it, they sleep it, that is all they--I mean, that is on their minds all the time. That is what they do. And so by you trying to help us in any way that you can, we really, really do appreciate it. And so, thank you all very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Souder. Thank you. Mr. Turner, do you have--I have some law enforcement questions. I will yield to you next to see if you have questions first, and then I will do some final. Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank each of you for everything that you do every day in your communities, for law enforcement, for making certain that you have safe communities. And, Mr. Priest, I appreciate your bringing forth the message that you had today of getting the message out that this drug destroys lives. So thank you for what you have shared. I want to ask you, our panel members, what can we do better in the area of communication? Because one of the things that just strikes me, and what I am hearing from you, not just the epidemic and the numbers which are extraordinary, but that this is different than anything we have dealt with before. Commissioner, when you talked about how this is made and the access, you know, that certainly is an important issue, its readily available nature. The dangerousness of this drug, the fact that this drug will absolutely ruin lives, is a message that I don't know that it is getting out. And what do you think that we can all do together to make that more clear, so that when people know that they are facing this drug that they are facing a decision that really is a preservation issue for their lives? Sheriff Vore. Mr. Vore. Obviously, a public education program that can be funded and put out across the Nation would be helpful. But, you know, something radical that, you know, I have been thinking about for actually, about a year, ever since meth started to really come to the forefront in our county, is--and the gentleman testified down there that he was in rehab. How many times were you in rehab? Mr. Priest. Probably about four times in my life. Mr. Vore. And that has been my experience, that meth is one of those things doesn't react to rehab like, say, some of the other drug addictions, because it just envelopes you. It takes your whole life over. You know, maybe it is time that we have some forced treatment programs for individuals who are caught using meth. And a lot of times they get put on probation, and then they go out and do community service or something of that nature. And maybe we need to get drastic here, because for the users they have to have some hope coming down the road. I mean, we have all seen the pictures in Time. We have heard the testimony here. If it gets to a point, then there is no point of return, and I think that is what we have to get out there and that is what we have to stop. And quite honestly, though, for the cookers and for the manufacturers, I think there has to be some lengthy, mandatory terms in prison to where you are removed from society, and you can no longer participate in the activity. So it is going to be a--like a two-pronged attack. Actually, a three-pronged attack with the education end of it. And I think this is something that--you know, we always talk about being tough on the war on drugs and stuff. But if we don't get tough on this, in 10 years this is going to make crack look like candy. Mr. Turner. Sheriff Fizer, I know that in Clinton County you guys have made an effort to communicate. How is that going, and what can we do better? Mr. Fizer. We have actually had some pretty good success, I believe, and I guess I agree with Sheriff Vore. Something nationwide would be great, or if we could even go from the States down to the local sheriff's offices to start organizations and mainly make the parents aware, which this Coalition for a Drug-Free Clinton County--it is a lot of--one of their main things, too, is to get the parents involved. We are already teaching the kids in schools the dangers of it, but the parents, because a lot of them are busy working, they don't take the time to know where their kids are at, and a lot of them is, ``What is this meth stuff that I read in the newspaper?'' There are still a lot of them that doesn't even know about it, which is surprising in the community, but--so that is what we are trying to do, and I would like to see more of that. I think if we educate them enough--we have township trustees that we went and gave talks to, and showed them the propane tanks, and--because we have a lot of--we refer to them as mobile meth labs. We get those also, and they have actually seen some of this in the ditch lines and didn't know what it was. So it is--we have had a lot of success thus far. We just would educate everybody that this is what is out there. And like I said, we are busting them right and left, but we are only doing it because the community is participating. They are calling in constantly. Mr. Turner. Sheriff Ariss, in your role with the regional perspective, are you seeing some best practices and some things that we need to do? Mr. Ariss. Yes, sir, I think I have to agree with everybody else. There is a problem out there. We are fortunate in our area with having the drug task force, you know, in the county, and John Burke and his group, what they are doing right now. And as I said earlier in my statement, that we ask for the participation, you know, within the county itself, you know, for funding to keep it going. And all of the villages and the townships and the county commissioners are funding it, so we have that buy-in early on. And selling it back to the community, John, with this new vehicle that he has purchased, it is a demo vehicle. We can take it out into the field, around to different areas, and show them what is going on, and then working--again, we have a rural area, working with our farm group and showing the farmers what they need to be alert of and what can happen. And just selling the program, which is what it is all about, selling the people and they have a buy into it. And I think as Sheriff Vore has talked, we have to explain and show them that this is very important. But, again, if you are going to do it, you are going to make a cooker, you are going to be the manufacturer, you will have to pay the price. And it has to be sure they go to jail, and we have to have the combinations. And locally it is tough for all of us, because we are all bursting at the seams and looking for bed space. But, again, there has to be a sure shot. If you are going to do these things, this is what the penalty is going to do, just like the nun did when we were in grade school. You know, if you stick your hand out there, you are going to get knocked. But, again, it has to be sure, you know, what is going to be effective at the same time. Mr. Turner. Any other thoughts? Mr. Burke. Yes. You know, we have done a lot of awareness and education, and what it does is--and it ultimately looks like a bad thing, is it will increase your meth labs, because there is a lot more of them out there than we are finding. And what happens is when you increase the education, the citizens get involved, which you mentioned before is so important. And they start to smell odors in their neighborhood, and they call the police, and hopefully we have educated the deputies and the other law enforcement and they realize what it is. And this has happened over and over again, so you get more of them, but that is not a bad thing because you are finding those that you didn't find before. The other thing I think is, it kind of sounds simplistic, but we just need to all really stay on this problem. I mean, we cannot back off of it one bit. As I told you, with Cincinnati, I saw the heroin problems in the cities. And if this goes as big as the heroin problem went, it will make heroin look very small compared to this meth problem. I mean, it is cheaper to make, it is a much longer high, there is paranoia involved, there is extreme risk for--I think it was mentioned, people that would normally not ever shoot a police officer may very well shoot somebody while they are under the influence of meth. And so the concerns and the issues, or a fire person or whoever happens to be around the property. So, you know, education is crucial, but so is staying on this and convicting folks that are manufacturing and somehow trying to find I think better rehabilitation, because my understanding is there is like a 6 percent successful rehab rate across the country for meth, and that has to get a lot better. Mr. Turner. Mr. Grandey, as you pursue prosecutions, are the stories of what is happening in these people's lives being able to be told, so that others can know the dangers? Mr. Grandey. Well, let me give you an example of that, and this is what makes meth so baffling to me. We had a young man who we sent his father to prison for manufacturing, we arrested his older brother for manufacturing, and just prior to his trial he committed suicide in jail. This young man we didn't think was a manufacturer. Shortly thereafter, he was arrested for manufacturing. Nice kid, worked hard, but he got involved in the same thing his family was. In trying to help him, he was sent to the Star Justice Program, which is a lockdown rehabilitation program. This young man was an absolute poster child for that program. He would go out with the director to Rotary Clubs and Lions Clubs and tout the benefits of the Star Justice Program. I think it was 3 months after he was released from that program we indicted him again for manufacturing. That is what baffles me about this, the addictive nature of it. Mr. Priest says if you get back around these people, you are right back into it again. And I don't know how you deal with that. I know my sheriff and his deputies have gone out and given educational programs to the schools, parents groups, trustees, farm bureaus. And like Commander Burke said, yes, people became more alert, and we have gotten more labs, but the people who are involved in doing this, I don't know how you reach them with this, you know, and you keep them from starting, because I have never seen anything. I spent 10 years in the system prosecuting before I got elected to my current position, and I have never seen anything where people who--and, you know, a lot of them really want to quit and just can't do it, and they fall back into the same trap. It increases problems, you know, for my health department, because somebody says we have a house now that is contaminated. I have health department issues that I have to deal with as the county prosecutor. I have domestic violence charges, I have neglect and dependency charges, you know, which all just mushrooms as far as the prosecution. I mean, it affects every aspect of everybody's life. And it just baffles me that those people that I have seen who I believe honestly want to quit, and as part of our sentencing recommendations was treatment, would successfully complete that--I mean, as far as, you know, everybody that is in the program, I mean, they have successfully kicked this habit and they are ready to go back into society, and within a short period of time they are back in my system again. And it is just so frustrating, because, you know, part of my job--yes, I am a prosecutor, but part of my job, I believe, is quite frankly to do justice. And if that is helping somebody and their family by making a recommendation of treatment, or whatever, I am willing to do that, and take the criticism that sometimes comes with that. But it is so frustrating with methamphetamine users. We just don't get there. And hopefully through all of these discussions somebody will come up with a solution for that, but it just baffles me in dealing with it. Mr. Turner. Commissioner, I know your county, Clinton County, has been very active in trying to get the word out, working in the schools and the community. What more do you think we need to do, or can do? Because it clearly is a message of, if you start this drug, you will ruin your life. Mr. Riley. As was mentioned a moment ago, we can't give up. We have to keep plugging away and giving the same message and being very consistent with the message. Anything that we can do to limit the availability of the components I think we have to do it. In getting ready for this, I went to several of the pharmacies in town. Most of them had the ephedrine and pseudoephedrine products back behind the counter. But I happened to get one of my wife's prescriptions filled yesterday, and I turned to my right and there were several blister packs of Sudafed right there. I could have, if I had wanted to, I could have grabbed probably 24, 30 of them, and been out the door. So it is still available. I think we need to do everything that we can to make it unavailable. And it is becoming more and more pervasive. Right here in Clinton County I have heard township trustees referring to a small village as ``meth land.'' It has become that well known in that area, and the sheriff is doing all that he can. But it is so insidious and there are so many of them, and, as Mr. Priest said, one cooker will teach two cookers, two of them teach two more cookers, and the next thing you know, with that geometric progression, the problem grows more rapidly than we would ever have thought. I have learned things here today that have shaken me, and I have lived in this community my entire adult life, and I know that there are things going on that are horrendous and are devastating to people's lives. We cannot give up on the hope that we can do something good about this, and I think we have to give that hope back to people. What Mr. Priest has done I think is extraordinary. My understanding from what I have heard is that this is one of if not the most highly addictive substances that people will start using. They continue to want to chase that high, that 3-day high that Mr. Priest described. You know, they can go into rehab, they come out of rehab or they come out of prison and they immediately want to get that high back again. I applaud Mr. Priest for having the guts to separate himself from those people, if that is what it takes. But that is an extraordinary example, and, unfortunately, most people can't do that. Education and limitation of the ingredients, and basically it goes down to what was said earlier, we just can't give up whatever effort on whatever front it might be to try to educate, limit, and try to treat these people and give them the hope. And, of course, law enforcement is still going to be a vital, vital key in that limitation. Mr. Turner. I want to thank all of the panel members for both the preparation time that you have taken, the time that you have taken today to help this committee as they have been putting together a national record on this issue, so that they can look for national and Federal policy. And I want to thank you for everything that you do at each of your communities, because you are making an impact on people's lives. And I want to thank the chairman. I know, Chairman Souder, you have additional questions. I do not, so at this point I just wanted to take an opportunity to thank you again. You have stepped out of Washington, and you have stepped out of your district and taken your time to be here, so that each of these stories can be told and be part of your record. And you certainly have been a leader in looking for national solutions. And your passion that you have for this is just so obvious and appreciated. So thank you for being here, and thank you for your attention to this. I think, as Mr. Priest has told us, this is destroying people's lives, and your efforts hopefully will save some. Mr. Souder. Thank you. And thank you for bringing us to Ohio. This has been really informative, and your continued leadership in Congress and help with this as we try to move additional legislation this fall and finish up on our appropriations bill. I have some very specific questions again. Does Ohio have a drug endangered children law or program? Are any of you familiar with that? Or, Mr. Grandey, you wouldn't look at--in other words, off in California, the first meth hearing this committee held, it was before I was chairman, came off of a case where--there were several cases, one where the meth parents put their kids in a stove to warm them up and cooked them to death. There were some explosions, and it led to a child endangered law, which California has the oldest, which is an additional tool for prosecutors and also for courts to remove the children. Mr. Grandey. We have a child endangerment statute, as well as neglect and dependency. Mr. Souder. Related to meth, it would be if you are cooking at home, you automatically become subject to---- Mr. Grandey. We don't have anything specific as to meth. It is one factor that goes into that, and one of the factors that my Children Services Board can use to file a neglect dependency endangerment charge in order to remove the children. But as far as enhancing any type of penalty against the parents, the penalty for child endangering is less than we had for the manufacturing or the possession, so that normally doesn't even get filed. They are looking at, you know, a stiffer sentence on the manufacturing or the possession, or whatever. But it is a tool that we can use, and my juvenile prosecutor can use, to remove the children, place them into foster care. Mr. Souder. So if I can ask a technical legal question, in trying to draft--if we do a national effort, although the furthest would be done at the State level, that--you talked about the additional laws. The advantage of having it be an automatic that can be invoked is that you wouldn't have to establish--in other words, if you have to--if the penalty is short, we are finding in a lot of meth laws around the country, and even as we--this is a side point, but this illustrates our challenge. As we look at the illegal immigration on the border and the terrorists on the border, the drug people coming across the Mexican border, one of our subpoints in Homeland Security is what we call OTMs, other than Mexicans, because they can't be deported back to Mexico. So we bring them here and we release them into the United States. Part of the question is who is running these? What we have learned at one of our hearings, the people who run these groups, the penalties are so small that no prosecutor or U.S. Attorney wants to take the cases, because the cost of preparing the case is so great for such a short term, penalty term. So it has inhibited our ability to control our border to some degree. Well, some of this is the same thing. If you have to do a whole, long process to establish it for a short penalty--on the other hand, if it is, in effect, a bonus charge, when we talked about where it is an--you could automatically invoke it if there are children involved in the house, then you wouldn't have to do a long establishment, if you de facto determine and would add an additional penalty if there are children in the house. Is that feasible? Mr. Grandey. We do have some enhancements if there are children in the house. I believe it raises the level of offense by one degree from a Felony 3 to Felony 2 if there are juveniles in the house. And I have used that, you know. And one of the problems that I have, quite frankly, is I mentioned the case load that we have, and, you know, like I said, I only have one felony assistant. And I have a lot of other things to do besides felony work. We average--right now, we are having anywhere from 6 to 12 cases set for trial all on the same day. And, unfortunately, I don't like to do it, but unfortunately I have to. And then, a lot of times you are negotiating prison time, and sometimes these things get away. Mr. Souder. It's one of the mythologies that we hear about sentencing in the United States, because this is everywhere in the United States, the bulk of the trials are being negotiated. So, therefore, if you have gotten an actual felony conviction, you've probably been pretty high up the chain. You hear all the time people are in prison for being convicted just for marijuana use. If you convicted them for marijuana use, I don't know very many prosecutors who do that. What it is a negotiated sentence down to marijuana use, because that was the easy one to get, and the news media has done a terrible disservice on who we're locking up, because most of these are negotiated bonds. If I can mention one other thing that we are--it came up yesterday, and it is a big challenge for conservative Republicans, because we have really stressed strong families. And surrounding family rehabilitation, and that type of thing. I want to ask Mr. Priest a quick question. Did most of the people that you know who worked with us, were they married? Mr. Priest. Yes, married. Mr. Souder. Both husband and wife involved? Mr. Priest. Yes. Mr. Souder. But as we start to talk to a number of the judges, and in the prosecutors' office and the criminal rehabilitation and drug treatment people in Fort Wayne, one of the things that we thought was different is we usually think of alcohol abuse and other drugs as having an enabler in the family, and a user. And what seemed to be a little different in meth is this is a challenge to how we look at family rehabilitation when there is the whole family that is involved in it. And we have to have a bias toward trying to put the kids back into the family, and we are going to have to look at family court and child endangerment questions, because putting the kids back into--because the kids can be functional in school. It is going home to an environment that they can get blown up, and that this is a new part of the side part of meth that is becoming more into discussion, because it is a challenge to the bias and the structure of our family court, our rehabilitation, our foster care laws, because this is a different type of thing that we face in other drugs, because it is almost always, it seems like, that both parents are involved in the production. The Mom and Pop labs seem to be different than the crystal meth on this, too, which is an interesting variation. Another question is: do any of your counties have Meth Watch? Are you familiar with that term? Why do you think that this hasn't been published more? None of you have ever even heard of it? When people say, ``I don't understand why we don't have a national strategy,'' this is part of it. I mean, how can it not be out? It was next door in Oklahoma. It was just as effective, and it didn't cost as much. It basically is a reporting process that goes to the pharmacies, that when they see people getting a certain number of blister packs. I mean, a small town, I grew up in a small town, it's not like you don't know who is coming in. And if you don't know who is coming in, that's news, too. If there is someone coming into a small town, and picking up those blister packs, and you don't know them, that is worth a notice. And what has happened is that the word quickly gets out, as we heard from Mr. Priest, they worry about getting busted. If they see somebody calling up, and if a car goes by, that is going to have an impact as much as the pharmacy has in putting them behind the counter, because that doesn't get into the law enforcement system. They can still do it--now blister packs, we have to get the quantity down. But we have to look at the individual citizens to do that, and we have to have some communication going across between people who are doing this around the country. Let me ask another question for those of you who have worked with the task forces and the community groups. And I am kind of baffled as to why this doesn't occur in the United States, and I think that it is an appalling collapse of the Department of Education. I think two of you are involved in the Drug Free Task Force. Have you sat the local schools down together and said, ``What are you doing with your drug-free money?'' Go ahead. I am just wondering, because every school gets a certain amount of drug-free money. Do you sit down in any of your communities and say not, ``What could we do with new money?'' but, ``What are you doing with your money? And how does it relate to an overall strategy?'' Mr. Burke. I am co-chair of the Coalition. It is funny you bring that up. It is exactly what we are getting ready to do at the next meeting. We just changed chairmanships, and I think it is a very valid point--what are we doing? I think there is actually some money that is not being spent at all and going unspent. And it is very timely that you mentioned that. We are doing that. And as far as the Meth Watch, we don't call it that. But we certainly have retailers and pharmacies that do participate. We encourage them to try and get license numbers without endangering themselves, and they do some of that. We don't have it organized. It sounds like Crime Watch? Is that kind of what it is? Mr. Souder. It is a variation, and it can be done in different ways, different counties implement it in different ways. But what it appears to be is--that type of program wouldn't work in Dayton or Fort Wayne. But in a small town where the problems are most concentrated, you have a pretty good handle of who is coming in. There was a group coming from Bowling Green, KY, who traveled all the way up here stealing and buying Sudafed, and ended up in Warren County and a Kroger employee called, and that's how they got caught. I have been very critical about the current proposal that we reduce the program, a number of you have heard of that, the task force is the height of money because information comes up in the local law enforcement, the State and local law enforcement. But we are going to have to, rather than drowning in the everyday problems, one of the things that we need is-- you guys are doing the point of arrest and have the data. Sometimes these statistics and reports you're doing can be very valuable, because it is how we can--we don't look at the big busts if we try to explain it to the people in Washington. You can't see the big busts if you drive the people who are doing the little busts, because it is the little busts that we turnup. You do negotiated sentences for information. Where did you buy it? Who did you buy it from? And we go from there. A huge challenge--my first--I was a staffer in a place in Indiana when I was working for a Senator, and the Richmond, IN prosecutor wanted to take down the biggest bust in the history of Richmond. Unfortunately, the group was also involved in the biggest bust in the history of Indiana over in Indianapolis, which, of course, they were waiting to see because they traced them to Kansas City, to an even bigger network, which was coming into the United States from Mexico. And we were trying to bust this whole network, so we could figure out how to reach a whole region. Unfortunately, the local prosecutor took him down, and we didn't get the network. His response was, ``People are dying and you guys could be working on a network forever.'' This is the constant tension that we have to work through, particularly when we are trying to move through something like that, of how can we learn from the experience, how can we get the data in, how can we get the, when we have a program with nuances, where is the clearinghouse going to be to get the information down and say ``Here's how they adjusted, we did this in Oklahoma; here is how they adjusted. When we did this variation, this is how they adjusted.'' It is one of the things we have been a little slow on in Iraq, although now we have minute-by-minute reporting on specific car bombs to figure out the variations they're doing. We have 20,000 people in the United States, 25,000 a year die of narcotics, but Iraq, and for that matter September 11th, seem small, and we need to have the seriousness about how we are going to do some of this interconnectedness. And you guys are on the front line, and the drug-free schools program is one of my frustrations. We got money back in, but we have to get some semblance of order. And one idea that I'm hammering on in my district as well as elsewhere is that we need to get the kids involved. Most of these schools have a little radio, or at least announcements, or sometimes even a T.V. station at their high school. We need some kind of award incentive. Procter & Gamble wanted to publicize Crest toothpaste, gave the Crest award $15 for each school district's most-creative anti-meth ad, and get the kids thinking of what they can put in their own announcements at their own school that--how can we integrate the young people in that as well. One last question to Sheriff Ariss. You have referenced anhydrous ammonia, and there was a case in your county where 300 people had to be evacuated? Mr. Ariss. Yes. Mr. Souder. Was there any damage, any residual from that? What level of endangerment did we get into? Could you describe a little bit what worked? Mr. Ariss. I'm going to defer to John, because John Berkeley in Drug Task Force really took over that effort. Mr. Berkeley. That was directly related to a person trying to transport anhydrous in a propane tank, and it actually ended up being--the saving grace there was the weather. The weather was perfect. Had it been a windier day--there ended up being a large cloud that formed over this little town, and we evacuated it, and it eventually dispersed. Of course, the problem with that is inhaling these fumes into your lungs. It could have been a disaster. If the weather had been different, as I was told, it would have been much different, even in a town of 300-and-some. Mr. Burke. I have a town that had a similar situation with a super tank, and they put it in town, which was a big mistake. Mr. Berkeley. That is exactly what this is, and it is exactly what---- Mr. Burke [continuing]. It could have obliterated 700 people. But I tried to figure out from that story where the danger points are. The wind is one, concentration. Mr. Berkeley. The one thing that was a danger, though, was the fire--volunteer fire lieutenant, and he got there very quickly and got it shut off. That was one extreme. What it did do was, it finally made them put a fence around this facility, which we had tried to get done for some time. And that effectively, along with an alarm system, stopped the entries in there. But it could have been catastrophic. No question. Mr. Souder. OK. Anything anyone else wants to add? Mr. Grandey. Along that line, in my written remarks I mentioned this--one of my biggest fears is, especially with the local land, and it is going to happen, it is just a matter of time--but one of my biggest fears is that we are going to have a rear-end collision. And because of the chemicals being used and the volatile nature of those, either from the explosion or from leaking from the anhydrous, we are going to have a major catastrophe in one of these smaller communities. And it scares me to think about what could happen. When I prosecuted a case where four guys were manufacturing in the lab and it blew up, when you think about the force of that explosion, and you put it in a downtown residential area, it is catastrophic. Mr. Souder. I have sort of a variation of that story, that Nick and I were up in a small town in Washington, and that one of the most famous pre-September 11th cases was the LAX bomber that was taken down, who was going to blow up LAX Airport, and had come all the way across Canada and had crossed at this little ferry post. And the local Customs people wound up detaining the person, getting into the trunk, thought they had a meth lab in the car that we are talking about. It turned out that they turned in this stuff to the local police department and it was nitroglycerin, enough to take out the entire LAX airport. So the danger with all that kind of stuff is just--it is a different world than when we were young. Anybody have anything else? Thank you very much for your participation. Appreciate your time. We have a bipartisan effort going on in Washington right now and we're going to push this, and this is something the local people know. And we are trying to respond. Thank you very much for your testimony. 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