<DOC>
[109th Congress House Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:24085.wais]
REVITALIZING COMMUNITIES: ARE FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS GETTING THE
FEDERAL ASSISTANCE THEY NEED?
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON FEDERALISM
AND THE CENSUS
of the
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT REFORM Q05
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 14, 2005
__________
Serial No. 109-81
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/
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http://www.house.gov/reform
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COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM
TOM DAVIS, Virginia, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
DAN BURTON, Indiana TOM LANTOS, California
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida MAJOR R. OWENS, New York
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
JOHN L. MICA, Florida PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania
GIL GUTKNECHT, Minnesota CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland
STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio
TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois
CHRIS CANNON, Utah WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee DIANE E. WATSON, California
CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
DARRELL E. ISSA, California LINDA T. SANCHEZ, California
GINNY BROWN-WAITE, Florida C.A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland
JON C. PORTER, Nevada BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
KENNY MARCHANT, Texas ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia Columbia
PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina ------
CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina (Independent)
------ ------
Melissa Wojciak, Staff Director
David Marin, Deputy Staff Director/Communications Director
Rob Borden, Parliamentarian
Teresa Austin, Chief Clerk
Phil Barnett, Minority Chief of Staff/Chief Counsel
Subcommittee on Federalism and the Census
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio, Chairman
CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania
VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
------ ------
Ex Officio
TOM DAVIS, Virginia HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
John Cuaderes, Staff Director
Ursula Wojciechowski, Professional Staff Member
Juliana French, Clerk
Adam Bordes, Minority Professional Staff Member
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on June 14, 2005.................................... 1
Statement of:
Knox, Thomas, chairman of the board, We Care America; Sister
Rose Wilenhaus, St. Mary Development Corp.; Mark Howard,
senior vice president, World Vision; and Reverend Michael
Jones, Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist Church, in
cooperation with the Robert Fulton Development, Inc........ 38
Howard, Mark............................................. 49
Jones, Reverend Michael.................................. 55
Knox, Thomas............................................. 38
Wilenhaus, Sister Rose................................... 44
Streeter, Ryan, Director, Office of Faith-Based Initiatives,
U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development; and Terri
Hasdorff, executive director, Alabama Governor's Office of
Faith-Based and Community Initiatives...................... 6
Hasdorff, Terri.......................................... 13
Streeter, Ryan........................................... 6
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Clay, Hon. Wm. Lacy, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Missouri, prepared statement of................... 36
Hasdorff, Terri, executive director, Alabama Governor's
Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, prepared
statement of............................................... 15
Howard, Mark, senior vice president, World Vision, prepared
statement of............................................... 51
Jones, Reverend Michael, Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist
Church, in cooperation with the Robert Fulton Development,
Inc., prepared statement of................................ 57
Knox, Thomas, chairman of the board, We Care America,
prepared statement of...................................... 41
Streeter, Ryan, Director, Office of Faith-Based Initiatives,
U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, prepared
statement of............................................... 9
Turner, Hon. Michael R., a Representative in Congress from
the State of Ohio, prepared statement of................... 4
Wilenhaus, Sister Rose, St. Mary Development Corp., prepared
statement of............................................... 46
REVITALIZING COMMUNITIES: ARE FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS GETTING THE
FEDERAL ASSISTANCE THEY NEED?
----------
TUESDAY, JUNE 14, 2005
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Federalism and the Census,
Committee on Government Reform,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:19 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Michael R.
Turner (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Turner, Shays, Dent, Foxx, Maloney, and Clay.
Staff present: John Cuaderes, staff director; Ursula
Wojciechowski, professional staff member; Juliana French,
clerk; Adam Bordes, minority professional staff member; Earley
Green, minority chief clerk; and Jean Gosa, minority assistant
clerk.
Mr. Turner. Welcome to this hearing of the Subcommittee on
Federalism and the Census. We apologize for the late delay; we
were going to be taking up H.R. 2385. What we are going to do
instead is begin with this hearing, and then we will suspend
when we have minority representation, we will take up the bill,
and then we will reconvene as part of the hearing.
So I would like to welcome you to the subcommittee's
oversight hearing entitled, ``Revitalizing Communities: Are
Faith-Based Organizations Getting the Federal Assistance They
Need?'' The subcommittee will examine how faith-based
organizations accomplish community revitalization using Federal
grants.
The administration's Faith-Based and Community Initiative
provides a chance for faith-based groups to participate in
federally funded community development efforts that were
previously inhibited by bureaucratic restrictions. In the past,
Federal grant and cooperative agreement programs have commonly
considered private or nonprofit entities, including religious
and secular organizations, eligible to receive Federal funds.
However, interpretation and application of the establishment
clause of the first amendment, as well as policy decisions by
administrators, has in the past required publicly funded
programs operated by religious organizations to be essentially
secular in nature.
The importance of this program was self-evident in the 9-
days after his inauguration. The President issued Executive
Order 13198, which established offices and responsibilities at
five Federal agencies for faith-based and community efforts.
The President later issued Executive Order 13279, which
required that Federal departments treat all organizations
fairly and without regard to religion in Federal programs.
A 2001 administration report, entitled the ``Unlevel
Playing Field: Barriers to Participation by Faith-Based and
Community Organizations in Federal Social Service Programs,''
found that various Federal agencies, including the U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development, imposed burdensome
regulations on faith-based groups. In response to this report
and Executive orders, HUD expanded its partnerships with faith-
based groups to promote home ownership, provide emergency
shelter and transitional housing for the homeless, build
affordable housing for the elderly and persons with
disabilities, and promote economic development in
neighborhoods.
The White House Office of Faith-Based and Community
Initiatives urges faith-based organizations to look into
partnering with State and local governments. To date, 26 States
and the District of Columbia have set up offices for faith-
based groups and community initiatives to perform outreach and
other functions similar to those carried out by Federal
offices. State actions are important because the majority of
social service assistance is administered through State
agencies receiving Federal support.
In the report entitled, ``The Expanding Administrative
Presidency: George W. Bush and the Faith-Based Initiative,''
the Roundtable on Religion and Social Welfare Policy states,
``The administration has advanced the initiative to leverage
the work of caring people and private resources to supplement,
not replace, the government's work.'' Religions and other
voluntary organizations serve to strengthen families and
neighborhoods. Proximity and familiarity with the people and
problems facing communities often qualifies many small faith-
based grassroots organizations as the most suitable social
service providers.
It is very important to understand how small faith-based
organizations can provide for their communities and how the
government, via Executive orders or legislation, can assist
those religions groups. Accordingly, this subcommittee will
hear the successes and impediments to the redevelopment of
cities via services and infrastructure improvements provided by
faith-based organizations.
I am eager to hear from our first witnesses about the
changes made at HUD and the efforts underway to assist the
faith-based organizations in their charitable efforts. We
welcome remarks from Mr. Ryan Streeter, Director of the Office
of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives at the U.S. Department
of Housing and Urban Development. Our second witness, Ms. Terri
Hasdorff, the executive director, Office of Faith-Based
Initiatives of Alabama Governor Riley's Office, will discuss
the State's effort to support religions groups and their
community development projects.
Our second panel of witnesses will discuss the important
work that they do and what we can do to help them. First, we
will hear from Mr. Thomas Knox, the chairman of the board at We
Care America; second, we will hear from Sister Rose Wilenhaus
from the St. Mary Development Corp. in Dayton, OH; third, we
will hear from Mr. Mark Howard, senior vice president from
World Vision; and, finally, we will hear from Reverend Michael
Jones from the Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist Church in St.
Louis, MO.
I look forward to the testimony our distinguished panel of
witnesses will be providing today, and we thank each of you for
your time and welcome you here.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Michael R. Turner follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Turner. We will now start with the witnesses of our
first panel. Each witness has kindly prepared written
testimony, which will be included in the record of this
hearing. The witnesses will notice that there is a timer with a
light at the witness table. The green light indicates that you
should begin your prepared remarks and the red light indicates
that time has expired.
It is the policy of this committee that all witnesses be
sworn in before they testify. If you would please rise and
raise your right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Turner. Let the record show that all the witnesses
responded in the affirmative. We will then begin with Mr.
Streeter.
STATEMENTS OF RYAN STREETER, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF FAITH-BASED
INITIATIVES, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT;
AND TERRI HASDORFF, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALABAMA GOVERNOR'S
OFFICE OF FAITH-BASED AND COMMUNITY INITIATIVES
STATEMENT OF RYAN STREETER
Mr. Streeter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The committee has my written remarks. With your permission,
I would like to offer a highlighted version of those remarks.
Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to describe the
progress being made in the major initiative of President Bush
and Secretary Jackson, which is improving the quality and
effectiveness of government-funded social services by making
faith-based and community organizations eligible to deliver
those services.
President Bush has said that the Federal Government should
work with those organizations that ``provide hope and provide
inspiration so that the American dream is available in every
corner of America.'' Toward this end, he signed Executive
orders that ensure that all faith-based and community
organizations are able to compete on an equal footing for
Federal financial assistance in a way that upholds the religion
clause of the Constitution.
HUD is actively implementing the President's Executive
orders. Successfully implementing the President's policies
requires making changes inside and outside of HUD. Internally,
outdated and longstanding departmental priorities have made it
difficult for faith-based organizations to participate in HUD
programs without fundamentally changing who they are.
One of the most significant internal changes we have made
is to our regulations. Until recently, HUD had regulations
governing nearly $7\1/2\ billion in grant funds that treated
faith-based organizations in an unequal manner. For instance,
two programs prohibited primarily religious organizations from
receiving funds ``for any activity, including secular
activities'' as a general rule with overly restrictive
exceptions to that rule. HUD finalized new rules for these
programs in September 2003 and provided detailed guidance on
how to implement the new rules in 2004. Also in 2004, HUD
finalized a rule extending equal treatment provisions to all of
HUD's remaining programs. We now allow faith-based
organizations engaging in eligible activities to apply for and
receive funding for those activities. We do not require a group
to fundamentally change its identity.
We are also clear about what cannot be done. HUD's old
regulations prohibited ``religious influences,'' whatever those
were. HUD's new regulations clearly state that faith-based
organizations may not use direct Federal funds for ``inherently
religious activities, such as worship, religious instruction,
or proselytization.'' A group may continue to engage in such
activities so long as they are not funded with direct
government funds, are separate in time or location from the
government program, and are voluntary for the Federal program's
beneficiaries. Furthermore, a direct grant recipient may not
discriminate in the provision of services to a beneficiary
based on the beneficiary's religion.
The point is this: HUD cares about results. Faith-based
organizations that provide public services for the public good
should not be excluded because of their faith, and our new
regulations make that clear.
Another internal change at HUD involves our grant
application process. All of HUD's notices of funding
availability explicitly state that faith-based and community
organizations are welcome applicants. HUD recognizes that
larger, repeat applicants often have an advantage over smaller,
new grassroots groups. In an attempt to level the playing
field, HUD now awards a point in the grant scoring process to
grassroots organizations, that is, small groups that are rooted
in their communities, serving their neighbors on a small
budget.
These internal changes at HUD are essential to fulfilling
President Bush's goals for the Faith-Based and Community
Initiative, but they are not sufficient on their own. That is
why HUD has also placed a strong emphasis on outreach and
education. One of the most significant barriers to the
inclusion of faith-based and community organizations is that
they are simply out of the loop, they are unfamiliar with
Federal grants-in-aid that can assist their mission and work,
they have been told they have no business partnering with
government agencies, or they simply believed the government
programs were not for them and the individuals that they serve.
In 2003, HUD responded to this problem by appointing faith-
based and community liaisons in each of its 81 regional and
field offices. These liaisons spend significant amounts of time
educating grassroots organizations about HUD, how it works, and
how its funds and other resources can be accessed.
We have not stopped there. Another significant barrier has
been the lack of understanding among small organizations about
what makes the grant application successful. So in 2004, HUD
completed 180 2-day free grant writing seminars for faith-based
and other community organizations across the Nation. More than
16,000 from more than 10,500 organizations participated in
these sessions, which consisted of hands-on practical grant
writing training delivered by professionals.
HUD is committed to continuing its training of grassroots
groups so that the pool of competitors for HUD funds is
enriched and our services improved.
President Bush and Secretary Jackson have made it clear
that HUD cares about results, and we are beginning to see the
fruit of our labor in the Faith-Based and Community Initiative.
We saw more first-time grantees each year between 2002 and
2004, and the number of faith-based grantees and the dollars
for which they have successfully competed also rose last year.
And this is only the beginning. HUD is committed to making sure
that the most effective organizations receive the taxpayers'
dollars to serve those who really need our help.
A level playing field is the best playing field. And those
who suffer in poverty and despair the best of playing fields.
HUD understands this and will continue to ensure that all
eligible organizations, regardless of their size, religious
affiliation, or lack thereof, are able to compete fairly for
HUD resources.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Streeter follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
STATEMENT OF TERRI HASDORFF
Ms. Hasdorff. Thank you, Chairman Turner and the
subcommittee members and staff, for the opportunity to speak
with you about the positive impact being made by faith-based
organizations, as well as the work of the Alabama Governor's
Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives [GFBCI].
Most of us are in public service because we want to make a
difference in the lives of others. I have been working with the
Faith-Based Initiative in Alabama for the last 2 years, and
never before in my career have I seen an initiative that acts
more as a catalyst for bringing about change in individuals and
communities.
Alabama is in the top 10 for a number of children living in
poverty. We have the lowest budget per inmate in the country
and the third highest in the Nation for students caught with
firearms in school, which is an indicator for at-risk youth.
Substance abuse is also prevalent in our State, where heroin,
marijuana, and methamphetamine use is steadily increasing.
There are parts of Alabama with great poverty and need. But
even in these areas there is a resource that we are rich in.
Our State is rich with faith-based organizations and people of
compassion. I am amazed at the willingness of faith and
community-based organizations to join together with one
another, as well as those in government, to combine their
strengths to confront critical issues. This initiative is a
catalyst for average people to join with other average people
to do extraordinary things so unique to their hometown that no
government agency or political body could ever construct or
mandate a solution so excellently tailored to heal individuals,
families, and communities.
The GFBCI is unique in that we have combined the resources
of the Corporation for National and Community Service with an
Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. Governor Riley
made the decision to combine his Faith-Based Office with the
existing State Office on Service and Volunteerism that
coordinates the Alabama AmeriCorps program. After all, who is
more committed to service and volunteerism in communities than
faith and community-based organizations? As David Eisner, CEO
of the Corporation for National Community Service, put it,
``The programs of the corporation act as a vital supply line to
the armies of compassion.'' Combining these two offices
maximizes their resources and impact, and is being used to
leverage ways to meet the most critical community needs facing
the State.
The GFBCI was established to serve as a bridge between
communities and government. This office also directs a
grassroots homeland security initiative called Citizen Corps
that provides training and volunteer opportunities for citizens
in how to prevent, prepare, and respond to disasters. This is a
natural fit since volunteers in faith and community-based
groups are often the first to respond and the last to leave in
disaster response situations. The Faith-Based Initiative is
woven throughout everything we do and plays a critical role in
connecting communities to the resources they need.
Three other important initiatives managed by the office are
the Alabama Women's Commission, the Alabama Statewide
Interagency Council on Homelessness, and the Faith-Based
Substance Abuse Treatment Task Force, which is working with our
office and the Alabama Department of Mental Health to more
effectively address the issues of substance abuse treatment in
our State.
Alabama has had a very productive relationship with both
the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
and the faith-based liaisons within the Federal agencies. The
staff of the White House Office provided much needed guidance
and resources as Governor Riley established plans for the
GFBCI, and they continue to provide resources and pertinent
information.
Other agency faith-based liaisons have been invaluable to
our work. David Caprara, director of the Faith-Based Center at
the Corporation for National and Community Service, has worked
extensively with our office, and last year our office partnered
with the Department of Housing and Urban Development Faith
Center to host the 2004 Alabama Faith and Community-Based
Development Conference, where HUD was a major participant. The
conference was a great success because Federal and State
government partnered with financial institutions, for-profit
and nonprofit groups to provide training for faith-based
organizations who are striving to revitalize their communities.
One of the great enablers for faith-based organizations are
financial and technical resources. Unfortunately, the lack of
those resources is also one of the greatest barriers to their
success. More funding is needed for capacity-building Federal
grants like the Compassion Capitol Fund. Other enables are the
faith center in the Federal agencies who provide up-to-date
information on the latest grants and funding opportunities, and
act as an information resource for faith and community-based
organizations.
Barriers to overcome are the lack of funding for State
offices and a lack of clear understanding from the State
agencies and some faith-based groups regarding the charitable
choice laws, and what the initiative is and what it is not,
such as that it is not a new pot of money and it is not an
affirmative action for faith-based organizations. Helping these
groups understand that the government can fund compassion, but
it cannot fund conversion, is one of the biggest parts of what
we do.
Our office receives frequent calls from social service
providers in need of guidance as they attempt to navigate the
Federal grant application process. The faith-based liaisons
within the Federal agencies are greatly needed for the State
liaisons to be able to call upon them for assistance. And as
the initiative continues to grow, the demand for this will only
increase. I urge Congress to consider sustaining these offices.
Thank you for your time and attention. I am grateful for
the opportunity to speak with you today and share with you how
the Faith-Based Initiative is making a difference in the lives
of Alabamians. I cannot overstate my support of this
initiative, because I see on a daily basis how it draws diverse
groups into incredibly innovative partnerships that can truly
transform lives, communities, and perhaps even a Nation. I feel
very blessed to have the opportunity to serve in my current
position, and how would be happy to answer any questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Hasdorff follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Dent [presiding]. Well, thank you both for your
testimony.
I have a question that I hope you can answer. Mr. Streeter,
in my district we have organizations like the Conference of
Churches, Jewish Family Services, Lutheran Ministries, Catholic
Social Agency. To what extent, to your knowledge, have those
organizations been embracing the administration's Faith-Based
Initiative program?
Mr. Streeter. Thank you for the question, Mr. Congressman.
We have reached out to a broad group of organizations around
the Nation, large organizations such as those you mentioned, as
well as smaller ones, and we found a great receptivity to what
we are trying to do. When organizations have concerns with what
we are trying to do, we have been receptive to meeting with
them and discussing differences.
I think that we have found a great level of receptivity
among some of the larger organizations to what we are basically
trying to do in terms of creating a level playing field. To
date, I have made with representatives at one level or another
of many of the organizations that you have met, either in our
offices or when we have been traveling, and have found that
whatever differences there might be with respect to specific
policy proposals that the administration might be forwarding,
that the general spirit and direction of the Faith-Based
Initiative is something that they support.
Mr. Dent. Thank you. And how has your office and your
efforts progressed since your first time after its
establishment in 2001?
Mr. Streeter. I think we have made good progress. Since its
establishment in 2001, the office, like all the other offices
across the Federal Government have been focused on a couple of
very large objectives. One is leveling the playing field and
making sure that faith-based groups and other smaller
grassroots organizations are treated equally and fairly in the
Federal grants application process and in Federal programs.
So we have made quite a lot of progress in changing our
regulations. You might be aware that HUD has had a history of
relatively prohibitive regulations with regard to primarily
religious organizations, and through a couple of waves of
regulatory reform we have made sure that the entire set of
programs at HUD are covered by equal treatment provisions in
our regulations.
We have also addressed another major objective of the
initiative, which is to make sure that organizations that have
not been exposed to Federal programming and have not played a
role in Federal programming to date have had an opportunity to
learn from Federal professionals on how these programs work and
how to access the funds. So as I mentioned in my prepared
remarks, we have done lots of grant writing training and
technical assistance workshops around the country, 180 last
year, which reaches 16,000 people.
And what I would also like to point out about that training
is that these organizations were, by and large, very small;
about a third of them had budgets under $100,000 and fewer than
three staff. So we think we are really reaching these
organizations that are doing the kinds of things the Federal
Government pays for, but have not been included to date.
Mr. Dent. A followup on that question really to both of
you. Again, as you mentioned in your testimony, HUD and
Governor Riley's FBCI office hold conferences that do instruct
small faith-based organizations on writing these grants, as
just mentioned. Has the number of first-time HUD grantees
increased as a result of this? And how effectively are faith-
based organizations getting the Federal dollars they need to
help disadvantaged Americans?
Mr. Streeter. For starters, I will say that as we have been
tracking them the last couple of grant cycles, first-time
grantees, being those grantees that have not previously been
awarded funds under a program at HUD, have increased about 100
percent in the last 2 years. So we see that as a good first
step. The data requires a lot of mining to come up with those
numbers, and we have confidence that in the last couple of
years we have seen the numbers increase by that amount, 100
percent from 2002 to 2004.
Ms. Hasdorff. And I would have to echo that. We have seen a
definite increase in the State of Alabama with the partnerships
that are being formed with faith-based organizations and the
number that are getting the grants. There are still some
barriers in place, and I think that is something that we are
working to address through more education and training,
especially with the local governments, of what the initiative
is and the nuances of working with faith-based organizations.
Mr. Dent. And again a question to both of you. After the
establishment of the FBCI offices and the changes in
regulation, what more could be done to assist the smaller
faith-based groups across the country that focus on community
development?
Ms. Hasdorff. I will start. The offices I believe have a
great need for more capacity-building resources. That is one of
the biggest things that I face. On a weekly basis I am
contacted by a number of faith-based organizations that are
looking to partner. I know that our State Department of
Economic and Community Affairs is contacted quite frequently as
well. They are the agency in our State that handles all of the
community development funds.
And there is definitely a tremendous increase in interest.
It is just a matter of providing the organizations with the
training that they need to be strong enough to compete for
those funds and properly administer them, and then also the
capacity-building resources for the organizations.
Mr. Streeter. Mr. Congressman, I will add to that and just
say that I think the President has spoken very clearly about
getting charitable choice provisions throughout all Federal
statutes, and I think that is particularly important in this
particular instance. I think that Federal resources that
support community and economic development ought to have a
clear statement within them, provisional clause that basically
protects their equal rights in terms of their ability to
participate in the Federal programs much like we have in the
charitable choice provisions, and I think expanding those
throughout Federal programs is definitely a step that we need
to take.
Mr. Dent. Mr. Streeter, I have another question. How many
not-for-profit organizations have you recruited so far to help
them become HUD-approved housing counseling agencies?
Mr. Streeter. I don't have exact numbers on the ones we
have directly assisted. We have done a lot of outreach around
the country on that particular issue. We have had several
hundred of them consult with HUD about the requirements that
they need to start building up in their portfolio. But as you
may be aware, it takes some time to become a HUD-approved
housing counseling agency; there are certain things that you
have to be doing, like providing those services for a year and
reaching so many people. I do know that we have provided
assistance in one form or another to more than 500
organizations over the last 3 years to get them the educational
resources they need about becoming HUD-approved.
Mr. Dent. And does HUD intend to make any further
regulatory changes to assist religious grassroots organizations
involved in community development?
Mr. Streeter. At this point, we don't have any regulatory
reform proposals on the docket. We have done the first wave of
reform in 2003. We changed eight programs within the Office of
Community Planning and Development that had explicit, we
thought, outdated provisions on religious organizations in
eight programs. We changed those. We created a general rule
extending those basic provisions to all HUD programs in 2004,
and then we also did a separate rule for HUD's Indian programs,
since those required a separate rulemaking process. So to date
we have made the regulatory changes that we have needed to make
to ensure that all of HUD's programs are covered.
Mr. Dent. And again, Mr. Streeter, how does your office
facilitate cooperation between faith-based organizations and
State and local government offices? What type of cooperation
has there been and have you helped facilitate that cooperation
with these private groups and organizations?
Mr. Streeter. We do it through direct contact with
organizations like Terri's on an as-needed basis when there is
an organization in her jurisdiction that has HUD-related
issues. We also have faith-based and community liaisons in all
of HUD's 81 regional and field offices, which is just a
tremendous asset for this initiative. I think that we have done
a good thing by appointing those liaisons and creating this
outreach structure. So our local liaisons play a major role in
facilitation. They have been building solid relationships with
a wide swath of faith-based and community groups in their
communities, and they often take the lead on ensuring that
those faith-based organizations are connected with the local
unit of government that they need to be to get their needs
addressed and their questions answered.
Mr. Dent. And again, Mr. Streeter, which State FBCI office
would you grade the highest and why?
Mr. Streeter. State FBCI office?
Mr. Dent. Correct.
Mr. Streeter. We have several that are high performers. It
would be difficult for me at this point to say which ones are
performing better than others. One stated objective of the
President's initiative over the next couple of years is to
increase our cooperation and coordination with the State
offices. So we are, internally, right now consulting with the
White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
developing a basic State checklist that we want States to take
a look at, that they would be able to measure themselves
against. And when that work is done, we will be more than happy
to share it with you. Until we have that work done, I would be
hesitant to say which offices I thought were performing better
than others.
Mr. Dent. OK. And before I turn the gavel back to the
chairman, I would just like to ask Ms. Hasdorff does Alabama
give out State grants to faith-based groups that are involved
in community development?
Ms. Hasdorff. We do. They are given out through the local
governments and the HUD funds that come to the faith-based
groups. We are not presently tracking, but we are working with
the State agencies within Alabama to put in measures in place
so that we can begin to track that. And as soon as that data is
available, I would be happy to share that with the committee.
Mr. Dent. Thank you. We would appreciate that.
With that, I will return the gavel to the chairman.
Mr. Turner [presiding]. Pardon me for not only exiting, but
also not having been present for your answers to the previous
questions. I am certain there is going to be some redundancy
here. But I want to go to the issue with faith-based groups, as
they start to get capacity and expertise in working in areas
where either before they had been prohibited or before had not
targeted for receiving funding for social service efforts, I
wonder to what extent if people raised the issue of measures of
success, that they are either going to be impacted because they
are startups or if we already are hearing some anecdotal
information about their level of success compared to other
programs. Could you talk a moment, both of you, about what you
are seeing either in discussions of measurements of success
that might be applied; the impact of the fact that these
organizations are going to, in part, be startups and how it
might impact, they might need some lead-time to be able to show
significant success; or, three, if you already have some
evidence or anecdotal data that shows the success of these
organizations? Mr. Streeter.
Mr. Streeter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am happy to
respond to that. We have been noticing a level of growth in
both interest and ability among smaller organizations,
grassroots groups, faith-based and otherwise, that haven't been
involved in our programs until now. We will be, in conjunction
with the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community
Initiatives, over the next year, collecting even more of these
anecdotal pictures of that success, because we are starting to
see some penetration by groups that were not formally involved
in Federal programs.
What I would like to point to is that in the grant writing
training that we conducted through HUD around the Nation, 180
2-day sessions which were free to the public last year--and we
are doing more of those this year--we did a participant survey
and we looked at what that survey showed us, and we saw that we
were definitely reaching a small organization with not a lot of
experience. I think one in four of the faith-based
organizations in that training had not ever applied for a
Federal grant before, and one-third of those organizations were
smaller than $100,000 a year in terms of their overall budget.
So we had a large representation from smaller organizations. We
also had larger, very experienced organizations there as well.
After that was completed last year, we did a rough survey
of participants that had been involved, and there were
thousands of organizations involved around the country. But we
were able to track down nearly 100 organizations last year that
had received funding that they attributed to something that
they had taken away from the training, that built a capacity
within them to successfully complete. Together, that total of
funding was nearly $45 million; not just HUD funding, but a
variety of sources of funding, other Federal agencies, some
private sector funding, as well as State agencies. That, to us,
was a signifier that we are headed in the right direction.
I think we are seeing organizations that did not have the
knowledge and, in some cases, the confidence to partner with
other organizations in their community to approach either the
Federal Government or a State or local office that managed
Federal funding to get in the game, so to speak. We think those
are initial signifiers of success, and we look forward to
producing similar results as we move forward.
Ms. Hasdorff. Mr. Chairman, one of the things that we have
been working on in Alabama is looking at a performance outcome
driven aspect to our office and to working with faith-based
organizations. We are very fortunate in Alabama that we have a
team of internationally known experts on return on investment
[ROI]. They work in the corporate world but also have been
applying what they do to the public sector as well. We have
contacted them and they have committed to work with our office
on implementing outcome measures for all of our programs. We
are also developing outcome measures that can be used for
faith-based organizations.
And as I go out and speak across the State to faith-based
organizations that are training for capacity-building
resources, one of the first things that I always encourage them
to do is implement outcome measures from the ground up as they
are starting these programs, to start them with that in place
so that they have some system in place to measure what their
successes are. We have found that is very important and
critical to the work that we are doing, and we are also putting
surveys and data collection in place so that can be measured
more effectively in Alabama.
Mr. Turner. Well, it would seem, certainly as many of the
faith-based organizations have a theological basis for wanting
to engage in the very types of outreach and social services
that many of the grant programs are trying to direct, you are
harnessing a level of energy and commitment that would
certainly seem to add to the likelihood of success, or at least
certainly the energy and enthusiasm.
Let us say there is a faith-based organization out there
who has not yet participated in the programs that HUD has had
on grant writing sessions, who sees a need in their community
and wants to begin the process of looking at how their
organization can participate in receiving funding to assist in
social services outreach. What advice would you have for them
today as they begin to look out in their community and then
look to both the Federal Government and the State and local
governments for assistance? Mr. Streeter.
Mr. Streeter. That is a good question, Mr. Chairman. I
would begin by first of all saying that you want to make sure
your mission is clearly defined and you are true to that
mission. The most successful organizations all say the same
thing: ``we never change our mission to pursue the dollars; we
pursue dollars to the extent that it buttresses and supports
our mission.'' That is the first thing. The second thing would
be to make sure that your community partnerships are solid and
strong, that you partner judiciously with other organizations
that have certain contributions to make to your mission-
critical aspects of your organization.
After you have done that, I think you are in a good
position to start consulting around the community on what the
best opportunities are for you in terms of funding.
As it relates to HUD, when an organization has an interest
in HUD-related activities and HUD funding, the first thing that
I would advise them to do is to be in touch with one of our
local liaisons. As I mentioned earlier, we have liaisons for
the Faith-Based and Community Initiative in each of HUD's 81
regional and field offices. We think that is a great asset to
our organization. It certainly gives people a point of contact
very close to home. And our HUD offices are also very well
connected and known by the local agencies, either the city or
State agencies that manage HUD funding. They are the first
point of contact and will always be able to meet with an
organization to help them identify where they have particular
needs and what types of HUD opportunities might support those
needs. That is the best place to start.
When an organization runs into some particular problem and
they need some headquarters mediation, then they always call
us. But our liaisons have been a great front line of activity
for us. They achieve a lot. They meet with organizations, and
the portfolio of organizations they are working with really
grows every day.
Ms. Hasdorff. I would echo that. Basically what we have is
quite a few of those types of groups that come to our office on
a regular basis, and one of the first things that I say to them
is to not be the Wal-Mart of social services, to isolate one or
two areas of focus, make those an area that you have a passion
for, that you would do whether or not you had any kind of
government assistance in doing them or not. And then we have
three Cs that we encourage them to keep in mind: capacity
building, which is obviously one of the most important, making
sure that they have the right board structure, the right
501(c)(3) setup, all of that; making sure that they have
collaboration, partners that they can work with who can help
them not reinvent the wheel, that they can work with to build
those types of programs they are looking to develop without
duplicating services. Then the third thing that we try and make
them understand is that the government can fund compassion, but
not conversion, and to keep that aspect structured properly
from the beginning in how they are building their programs so
that you can isolate out certain portions for Federal fundings
if that is what you are looking to do.
Mr. Turner. As you are looking to assist faith-based
organizations, are you finding that there are still impediments
either within HUD or within other organizations or agencies in
rules and regulations that HUD must deal with that are outside
of your control that provide an impediment for faith-based
organizations to access funding and partner?
Mr. Streeter. One thing, Mr. Chairman, that comes to mind
is that an organization will sometimes find that its local unit
of government has particular procedures and practices which are
at odds with what we are doing, our particular local ordinances
or other rules that are in conflict with the principles that we
have articulated in our regulations. And when we come across a
situation like that, we deal with that on a case-by-case basis.
We try to be as responsive as we can. We involve our counsel's
office and build a relationship with the local unit of
government, if we need to, to intervene in that way. So that is
one thing that organizations may run into.
I think that increasingly the impediments are less having
to do with our regulations, since we have changed those. I
think they are finding a greater receptivity in HUD-funded
programs because of what we have done with the regulations, and
more simply the need to build their knowledge base of how to
access those funds. So I think ongoing education, a stronger
relationship with Governors' offices like the one that Terri
runs, and a continuing role for our liaisons in the field is
the best way to overcome that knowledge gap.
Ms. Hasdorff. And I would agree with that and basically
just add that I think a lot of times in local governments,
especially, there is a fear of partnering with faith-based
because they don't understand how the initiative is structured,
and sort of the separation of church and State concern. Once we
sit down with them and explain a lot of times how the
initiative actually works, that alleviates a lot of that
concern. But it is something that there is a real need. That, I
guess, is probably one of the largest impediments. And what we
have said earlier about the capacity-building side of things.
The organizations a lot of times have a passion for what they
want to do, but they have not been working in this long enough
to have the proper structure in place. So making sure that they
are a little bit more sophisticated and able to compete before
they approach a funder like that for a grant is typically the
two largest impediments that we have found.
Mr. Turner. In my next question I want to acknowledge my
predecessor, Tony Hall, who was the Congressman from the Third
District of Ohio, who now is the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N.
Food Program, who in 2001 was the co-author and co-sponsor of
H.R. 7, that was an attempt to legislatively expand the
opportunities in this area for faith-based groups and
organizations. And recognizing that we are currently operating
under Executive order, I wanted your thoughts, Mr. Streeter and
Ms. Hasdorff, as to our needs to make certain that, as we begin
this process, that we have one that can have longevity. As we
look to the investment that we are making in capacity building
for faith-based organizations, I know many are concerned that
if there is a change of administrations that does not have the
same view on this issue, that faith-based organizations might
have the rug pulled out from them. I would like your thoughts
as to how we might proceed and what needs there might be in
that area.
Mr. Streeter. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. I
think that, for starters, making sure that charitable choice
provisions and equal treatment language, statutorily speaking,
are adopted in as many programs as possible. The President has
made a commitment to making sure we have charitable choice
legislation that guarantees the equal treatment of faith-based
organizations, and I think that is a top priority of this
administration. I think, as well, the continuing capacity-
building. Resources is a real need in the Compassion Capitol
Fund. It would be better if it were fully funded, and the work
that it is doing is great and provides resources to grassroots
organizations all around the country to help them get their
organizations up to speed, and a continuing commitment there I
think is also essential.
I also would say that the goal of our center is to make
sure that as many of HUD's program offices as possible are
operating with proper guidance on how to implement our
regulations, and we have produced guidance to that effect. I am
confident that, with the ongoing adoption of the guidance that
we have provided throughout our offices, that our program
offices themselves will operate in a way that is truly fair and
equitable to faith-based groups and other inexperienced
grassroots organizations.
Ms. Hasdorff. And I know that for myself personally--and I
would say that this would probably be true of many of my
colleagues in other States that have Offices of Faith-Based and
Community Initiatives--if there weren't these types of offices
on the Federal level or in the White House, I think that there
would be a real deficit, because you have so many groups that
come to you and many times have questions that they need
clarification on or that you are looking for assistance in
locating specific grants that they want information on. Having
someone who is a liaison within the agencies to be able to call
is invaluable.
The other thing, if you weren't to have an Office of Faith-
Based and Community Initiatives in the White House or in the
agencies, you would still have the charitable choice laws in
place, but you just wouldn't have quite as much of a mechanism
for education and training for the faith-based organizations on
how to properly implement that. So I would strongly urge
legislation to try and move that forward.
And I have to echo what Ryan said about the CCF, the
Compassion Capitol Fund. I think that is so critical to this
initiative, because there really is a need for that to be fully
funded. That is one of the largest needs that our office has as
a State faith-based office.
Mr. Turner. I have one more question before we turn to my
colleague, Mr. Clay, for his questions. In all of the
presentations that we have today, even the testimony that is
coming in the second panel, there is a great deal of effort and
focus on the issue of funding faith-based organizations, social
service activities is not funding religious activities. And I
think, Ms. Hasdorff, you made the issue of we are not funding
activities of conversion. And I applaud the White House's
efforts and HUD's efforts and the faith-based groups and
organizations that have tried to make certain that the
sensitivity of providing social services to individuals, versus
providing religious instruction or other activities not be
funded.
But there is the reverse of this also, which I would like
for you to talk about for a moment, and that is the issue that
was somewhat prevalent in the situation we were in before the
efforts to include faith-based organizations, and that is the
conversion of religious organizations to non-religious
organizations, the actual constraining or restricting religious
organizations in, for example, the presentation of religious
symbols, limiting the types of activities that can occur in
various spaces and places. That balance is, of course,
obviously very important, because as we try to harness that
love for trying to provide social services to others through a
religious or a theological view, you don't want to suppress
that ability for a religious organization to identify itself as
a religious organization.
Could you speak to that for a moment and your efforts to
ensure that this is not a burdensome restriction on religious
organizations as we encourage them to undertake this process?
Mr. Streeter. Yes. We have made it very clear in our
regulatory language that faith-based organizations retain their
independence as faith-based organizations. If you take the
faith out, they are no longer faith-based and they lose a
critical part of who they are. There are certain things that
are important to maintaining their level of commitment to their
faith and being able to operate with government funds: one,
they want to make sure that they are able to look and feel like
the faith-based organization that they are. Many of them want
to be able to hire people who share their fundamental religious
views. Many of them want to make sure that the motivation that
is provided, that it gives the impetus to their staff is
something that is able to be maintained. We have made it very
clear that independence is protected. And the view of this
administration is that the religious nature of an organization
ought not be compromised.
At the same time, we have made it very clear that they need
to be able to conduct their religious activities in a way that
is separate from the government-funded activities; needs to be
separate in time or location, those activities need to be
voluntary for anyone assisted with the Federal funds. And I
think we have been clearer than previous rules and regulations
have been. There is a myth out there that we are blurring the
line between church and State. In fact, I think we have made
the line much clearer. I think that in our regulatory language
we have spoken very clearly about what constitutes inherently
religious activities.
And I would also like to say that the many hundreds and
thousands of faith-based organizations that we have dealt with
in conferences and in workshops, that have dealt with our
liaisons or visited us in our office, are very comfortable with
those changes. Many of them are very well educated about what
they can and cannot do, and none of them have the intent of
using government funds to promote their religious mission. It
is ultimately up to them. They need to be able to decide
whether or not it is worth it to take the strings that are
attached to Federal funds to be able to carry out their
mission. We just think there should be a level playing field.
And we found a great receptivity to the nature of the changes
that we have made and a great appreciation for the degree we
have gone to protect the religious identity of the
organizations involved.
Mr. Turner. Ms. Hasdorff.
Ms. Hasdorff. This has been an issue that has come up a lot
on the State level as well, and I think that one of the things
that I have encouraged the different State agency folks that
have talked to me about this is to understand that we are
looking for the best providers of social services across the
board. If faith-based organizations can compete for that and
are given a seat at the table, and they come in as the top
provider for that social service under the grant guidelines,
then they need to be the one who is considered being awarded
that. But, on the same token, we try and structure things in
such a way so that they are not being unfairly burdened to try
and change their program so much that it is not going to be the
same program once you get through with the funding being given
to them.
I think one area to really consider looking at, though,
more in depth on this is the voucher issue. I know the
President's Access to Recovery Grant has been something that
our State has applied for and did not receive this last go-
round, but we hope that there will be additional opportunities
to apply for grants like that, because I see that as a real way
to effectively address this issue and protect both interests.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me also thank you
for conducting this hearing on such an important subject.
I will be brief, since we are in the middle of votes on the
floor.
For Mr. Streeter, since the implementation of the Executive
order in 2002, has HUD been forced to address cases of
employment discrimination or instances where beneficiaries felt
they were forced to play a role in religious activities from
faith-based organizations?
Mr. Streeter. It is a great question, Congressman Clay.
Thank you for the question. I am happy to respond. We have had
surprisingly little activity in this area. We have, in a case-
by-case basis, addressed certain complaints that might arise,
either through a grantee or through a local State office where
they feel as though there is a problem in one of those areas.
To date, we have not had any particular situations where the
employment discrimination issue has involved our involvement.
There have been a couple of instances where we have received
calls from a local grantee that believes that some faith-based
organization is upholding some type of religious foil in terms
of how it serves its beneficiaries, and we have intervened and
usually made sure there is clarity on that. And in each case it
has been resolved to the satisfaction of all involved,
including our general counsel's office.
Mr. Clay. So you address the issue as it comes up.
Mr. Streeter. Right. We address this on a case-by-case
basis as these complaints and questions come to us about issues
related to either the nature and condition of employment of a
faith-based organization or the requirements placed upon the
people being served.
I should say we have found really virtually no problems,
though, with respect to faith-based organizations placing
religious conditions on the people that they serve. They are
there to serve their communities, and it doesn't matter to
them. And those who receive HUD funds especially it does not
matter to them what the religious persuasion, or lack thereof,
is on the people that they are serving.
Mr. Clay. Would it be possible for you to provide this
committee with some kind of data on how many complaints and
what types?
Mr. Streeter. I would be happy to do that.
Mr. Clay. Thank you very much.
And my last question, Mr. Chairman, to Ms. Hasdorff, is
since the Executive order was issued, can you indicate whether
there has been an increase or decrease in the number of faith-
based providers in your State, and if there has been an
increase, has the sharp increase in Federal funds under this
administration allowed for more participation by faith-based
groups in your State?
Ms. Hasdorff. Yes, sir, I would say that there has been an
increase, and I believe that the President's emphasis on this
initiative and the charitable choice legislation has paved the
way for that to be something that is infiltrating into the
faith-based community. I think that more and more are becoming
aware of the opportunities that are now available to them. It
is amazing how every time this is mentioned in a speech or
something like that, our office is continuously contacted after
that. So, yes, I would say there is a definite increase in
faith-based organizations.
Mr. Clay. Do you see the government depending more on
faith-based organizations to do the work that was traditionally
done by the government?
Ms. Hasdorff. I see the government picking partners who can
most effectively deliver those social services in the best way
possible. And I think that there is an increase in
partnerships. In some ways that may shift to more work being
spread around, but I think that what it is is looking for the
most tailored solutions to communities. And this seems to be an
initiative that is a catalyst for building a lot of energy into
communities that may not have looked to those resources in the
past.
Mr. Clay. Well, thank you for your response.
Mr. Turner. Thank you. They have called a vote, so that is
why you see the Members leaving. So we are going to recess for
the Members to vote. We are finished with panel one. I want to
thank you for your time here. And if there is anything else
that you would like to add in your testimony as a result of
what you have heard today, feel free to present that to the
committee and we will add it and supplement the record with
your additional comments.
So we will recess this portion. When we come back, we will
convene the business meeting to handle legislation, and then we
will reconvene for panel two.
Thank you all for being here today.
Mr. Streeter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Hasdorff. Thank you.
[Recess.]
Mr. Turner. I would like to bring to order the Subcommittee
on Federalism and the Census and reconvene our hearing on
``Revitalizing Communities: Are Faith-Based Organizations
Getting the Federal Assistance They Need?''
We are now going to introduce our second panel. But before
we do so, I would like to ask you all to rise to be sworn in.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Turner. Let the record show that all witnesses have
responded in the affirmative. Our four panelists for this panel
are Mr. Thomas Knox, chairman of the board of We Care America;
Sister Rose Wilenhaus, St. Mary Development Corp.; Mr. Mark
Howard, senior vice president for World Vision; and Reverend
Michael Jones, Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist Church, in
cooperation with Robert Fulton Development, Inc.
I would like to now turn to Mr. Clay for a statement.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to say I am proud to welcome a constituent, Pastor
Michael Jones of Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist Church of
St. Louis. I have had the pleasure of visiting Friendly Temple
and am very impressed with the work that congregation does in
St. Louis. Pastor Jones leads an organization that is based in
the heart of the inner city of St. Louis, serving an area with
the highest incidence of poverty throughout the region. Some of
the major issues Pastor Jones and his members seek to remedy on
a daily basis include high unemployment, reducing the number of
children living in poverty, poor housing quality, and the
extensive needs of the elderly and the infirm.
It gives me great pleasure to welcome him before our panel,
and thank you for yielding.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Wm. Lacy Clay follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Clay.
This committee looks forward to receiving your testimony.
We will begin with Mr. Knox.
STATEMENTS OF THOMAS KNOX, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, WE CARE
AMERICA; SISTER ROSE WILENHAUS, ST. MARY DEVELOPMENT CORP.;
MARK HOWARD, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, WORLD VISION; AND REVEREND
MICHAEL JONES, FRIENDLY TEMPLE MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH, IN
COOPERATION WITH THE ROBERT FULTON DEVELOPMENT, INC.
STATEMENT OF THOMAS KNOX
Mr. Knox. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I thank
you for the privilege of testifying today before the committee.
My name is Tom Knox. I am chairman of the board of We Care
America, a faith-based nonprofit, and I am bringing you
greetings from the entire leadership team who is actually in
California right now, all of them providing technical
assistance to 115 different community and faith-based groups as
part of the Compassion Capitol Fund Grant.
Dave Donaldson was the founder of this organization. He
started it in 2001. And he started it because of a personal
experience where his father was killed by a drunk driver and
his mother was badly injured, and Dave and his family had to
rely on the compassion of the government, local churches,
community groups, and even corporations that provided
everything from food, clothing, companionship, and even
mentoring Dave and his family.
Dave's goal in starting We Care America was to provide
guidance and expertise to similar organizations that helped
him, who were small, didn't have the capacity and ability to do
things on a large scale, but were extremely influential in his
own life. And our continuing mission at We Care America is to
unite the efforts of leaders, churches, organizations,
government, and corporations to provide effective solutions and
bring lasting change to spiritual and social crises that affect
so many.
We Care America continues to be a strong supporter of the
administration's Faith-Based and Community Initiative. We see
this initiative as taking a step to the ``Shining City on a
Hill'' so eloquently described by President Reagan. And it is a
combination of public resources with the love and compassion of
faith-based and community organizations, and it is powerful and
transformative. And we have been able already, in just a short
time, to help more than 140 non-profits garner first-time
funding from the Federal Government and have disbursed more
than $10 million to these groups. In southern California, our
region for the Compassion Capitol Fund, we have more than 40
ministries we are helping and have trained more than 4,000
groups to date on capacity-building to drastically increase
their reach and scope.
One transformative agency partnering with We Care America
is Templo Calvario, the largest Hispanic church in America. It
is located right next to an empowerment zone in Santa Ana, CA,
an area which 80 percent of the residents are foreign-born and
live in poverty. And when you go out there, you just see them
as an oasis in this chaotic area. To answer some of the needs
of its neighbors, Reverend Dan DeLeon started Obras De Amor,
Works of Love, a benevolence program which each week provides
groceries, clothing, furniture, counseling, referrals, and
emergency assistance to 250 families. In addition, Works of
Love operates after-school centers for elementary school
children, sponsors teenagers at summer camp, donates backpacks
loaded with school supplies, and distributes Christmas toys to
4,000 children.
Works of Love, of course, cannot meet every need and, as a
result, must leverage itself with other organizations. In
addition to delivering its own services, it provides groceries,
clothing, furniture, and occasional funding to a network of now
60 other churches and community-based organizations called the
Kingdom Coalition. In turn, those members extend from Los
Angeles to San Diego and are now providing food, counseling,
after-school centers, and furniture to more than 80,000 people
a month. And when you see their operation, extremely
sophisticated in what it does.
Food and shelter, of course, are essential for sustaining
life, but they are not the only essential elements. Shelter is
necessary. And here is where the partnership of Templo
Calvario, We Care America, and now the Federal Government is
bearing much fruit. The Church, aided by Federal dollars
through the Compassion Capitol Fund, in 2002 started Templo
Calvario Community Development Corp. This community development
corporation [CDC] focuses on six core things: affordable
housing; business and job creation; education; youth programs;
a Senior Service Enterprise that provides home care,
transportation, and other services to seniors; and a community
fair for more than 100 community organizations.
We Care America provides technical assistance to the CDC
through a 3-year Compassion Capitol Fund grant, Templo has
about 20 organizations that it, in turn, is helping to grow
with We Care's help.
Although the administration has at least temporarily
removed many barriers to public funding of faith-based and
community organizations, some barriers still remain. Just this
past week, Reverend DeLeon, when he was in town, recounted to
one of our staffers that he faces barriers frequently at the
State and local level. Reverend DeLeon said he needs to educate
the State and local officials regularly that it is OK for them
to partner with a 501(c)(3) and provide services to the most
vulnerable in his community.
Even locally there is an organization called Beach Care
within the last 2 years is providing soup kitchens, thrift
shops, counseling centers, and after-school programs, and I
watch with the $35,000 capacity building grant they have
created a board and gotten their budgets in place and are now
able to increase what they are doing, but spend their time on
fundraising instead of having the funds allocated to do more
good work.
At We Care, we are proud to partner with ministries and
community organizations that do a lot to provide solutions in
their neighborhood. Barriers, however, still remain. The simple
fact that we can't rattle off at this point hundreds of
examples is an example of detractors that have had a chilling
effect on providing a level playing field for the faith-based
organizations to provide social services.
Through the Compassion Capitol Fund, the capacity of many
charities on the front lines has been raised, and the charities
are delivering more aid, with more accountability, to our
Nation's poor and needy. As their capacity increases, these
neighborhood charities will increase the competition for public
funds, which should help the taxpayer in the long run, in
addition to the poor and needy.
However, whether it is in the housing market, providing
substance abuse treatment, or even after-school programs, there
must be a concerted effort to communicate the principles of the
faith and community-based initiative down to the State and
local level without the fear of litigation that stops providers
from being successful. And that hiring rights are long-held
historic traditions in all faith communities in this Nation and
that voucherizing social services may be the most effective way
to navigate the current landscape.
Thank you again for the opportunity to address the
committee.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Knox follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Knox.
Sister Wilenhaus.
STATEMENT OF SISTER ROSE WILENHAUS
Sister Wilenhaus. Good morning. St. Mary Development Corp.
was started in 1989 in Dayton, OH, in Montgomery County. Our
mission is to provide community development and provide housing
and holistic services to low-income residents.
We began our work when we were prompted by seeing the look
of hopelessness in the eyes of the residents in a depressed
neighborhood in East Dayton. We try to bring hope to the
declining neighborhoods by empowering people to do all that
they are capable of doing, and to create an environment where
all things are possible.
We focus our efforts around these guiding principles: faith
in God, firm commitment to the community, development and
empowerment of the people, and persistence in purpose.
Throughout our 15 year history, we have expanded our
programming to include Southeast Dayton Housing to serve as a
general contractor to provide single-family homes and rehab
homes, specifically, many times for senior citizens.
Another one of our primary goals is the creation of
affordable housing as a catalyst for neighborhood development.
We currently have five senior buildings that is home to over
600 independent living seniors of low to moderate-income. We
provide a unique quality of life at an affordable price for low
and moderate-income seniors.
St. Mary Development places a high priority on
collaboration with other non-profits with the city, State,
Federal Governments. We rely on partners for assistance with
transportation, health care services, nutritional counseling,
and senior fitness programs. One of our senior buildings even
has an in-house grocery store for the convenience of in-bound
residents.
We partner with colleges, the transportation agency,
NeighborWorks of America, Ohio Capital Corp. for Housing, and
we do all of this in complete partnership; otherwise, our
organization would be able to do very little. The local
churches provide residents with spiritual needs. We have
neighborhood prayer breakfasts, gospel choirs, weekly visits
from ministers, and residents' Bible study groups, that nourish
not only the body, but the soul and keep hope and love alive in
our residents.
St. Mary's has also created a Home Ownership Center of
Greater Dayton. Its mission is to educate and empower residents
of Greater Dayton area to achieve and sustain home ownership
and financial success. We provide training in many areas,
particularly right now we are focusing on assistance to victims
of predatory lending.
St. Mary's has also been committed to the education not
only of children, but adults. We began with the GED program
with the Dayton public schools. We have Head Start programs
with Miami Valley Child Development, and we are also partnering
with Richard Allen Academy Charter School areas. Children in
poor areas and parents need education in order to achieve what
they always wanted.
In spite of these achievements, we know we have lots to do.
Cities don't deteriorate over night, and rebuilding
neighborhoods and restoring hope to their people is a lengthy
process. SMDC has barely scratched the surface, and the
resources are not available to address all of the present
needs. We continue to search for funding to help achieve our
mission.
Federal grants to faith-based organizations like St. Mary
are essential if we are to continue our work. Unfortunately,
Federal grants are often intimidating and create impossible
barriers for small organizations. We just finished a 202
project that took four people 5 weeks to do, and all of the
other work that they would have done had to be put on hold. We
would like to see that changed. We would like to have Federal
agencies help with grants to underwrite performance-driven
programs that deliver positive, measurable effects. Faith-based
organizations are usually grassroots and are close to and
trusted by the neighborhood organizations and residents. They
have the advantage of knowing first-hand the needs and
priorities of the communities they serve.
We really appreciate this opportunity to share our
experience with you. We are fortunate to have developed into a
vital, resourceful organization that is now large enough to
deal with significant programs that will favorably impact the
people we serve. We are looking forward to continuing to
practice our mission and serving a diverse population in a
caring and dignified manner.
We thank you.
[The prepared statement of Sister Wilenhaus follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Turner. Mr. Howard.
STATEMENT OF MARK HOWARD
Mr. Howard. Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you, Member Clay and other members of the committee, for
inviting World Vision to testify before your committee today.
My name is Mark Howard, and I serve as the general counsel for
World Vision, and I have served in this role for the past 15
years.
World Vision is a Christian relief and development
organization operating in nearly 100 countries, with an overall
budget worldwide of about $1\1/2\ billion. In 2004, World
Vision in the United States contributed $800 million to this
total, of which $285 million came from the U.S. Government.
World Vision has over 1 million private donors from every State
and congressional district in the United States.
Motivated by our faith in Jesus, World Vision serves the
poor, regardless of a person's religion, race, ethnicity, or
gender, as a demonstration of God's unconditional love for all
people. We understand and respect the cultures in which we
work, and we do not proselytize.
Within the United States, World Vision works in
collaboration with thousands of local faith and community-based
organizations. In 2004, World Vision assisted more than 1\1/2\
million American children and adults. Here in Washington, DC,
World Vision is working with at-risk youth on the streets and
in the schools in Wards 7, 8, and in Prince George's County.
World Vision is working on a cutting edge program in northern
Virginia to break the vicious cycle of gang violence.
And World Vision is one of the largest non-commercial
providers of school supplies both here in Washington, DC, and
across the Nation through our gifts-in-kind program.
While the majority of World Vision's grants from the U.S.
Government are for international programs, we have been growing
our domestic programs with both private and public resources.
The domestic portfolio currently includes funding from the
Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of
Justice, the D.C. Appropriations bill, and the Department of
Housing and Urban Development. World Vision has applied for and
won two HUD rural capacity building grants for a combined total
of $600,000 to be disbursed over the next 5 years.
World Vision would like to thank President Bush and the
U.S. Congress for its support of the many faith-based and
community initiatives. These numerous efforts have begun to
reduce the barriers for faith-based organizations, with the
goal of bringing a level playing field for all organizations,
both faith-based and secular. However, for World Vision and
other faith-based organizations, the reforms have not gone far
enough. While we are invited to participate and apply for all
programs, in many cases the price of participation, especially
on U.S. domestic programs, is too high. We are asked to forfeit
our right to hire staff that share our faith, which we refuse
to do.
Religious staffing is essential to the character of our
organization, and is protected by the exemptions set out in
Section 702 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Some of the programs World Vision and other faith-based
organizations are being invited to participate in do not
recognize this key religious staffing freedom. The Youthbuild
and Youth Offender Re-entry opportunities are two such
programs. Both of these programs carry Workforce Investment Act
stipulations that roll in at the local level. These
stipulations would require World Vision to forfeit our
religious hiring requirement in order to participate. Each
program is from an agency World Vision has accepted funds from
in the past without any restrictions in religious hiring.
In particular, Section 188(a), subparagraph (2) of the
Workforce Investment Act prohibits organizations from hiring
employees based on religion. While the funding for Youthbuild
programs comes directly from HUD, the fact that any Youthbuild
grantee must be a mandatory partner in a One-Stop Center pulls
over the Workforce Investment Act requirement and effectively
prevents World Vision from accessing such funding, since World
Vision will not forego our hiring based on religion.
In evaluating this grant opportunity, World Vision's
ability to engage in a timely conversation with the faith-based
office of HUD was essential. The faith-based office assisted in
detailed fact-checking of our internal legal review. The
knowledgeable input we received from the HUD faith-based office
confirmed our own legal review and reinforced that the
appropriate decision for World Vision was not to submit a
proposal. The faith-based offices are aware of these issues and
World Vision hopes Congress will change these statutory
restrictions to conform to the exemption containing the Civil
Rights Act of 1964.
World Vision strongly supports H.R. 1054. Not only should
the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives be
codified, but also expanded so that organizations, particularly
those without the resources and staff of World Vision, can get
the guidance and assistance that they need.
World Vision believes that religious staffing is essential
to the religious integrity and autonomy of faith-based
organizations. The White House Faith-Based and Community
Initiative Offices have played an integral role over the past
few years in educating and advising grassroots faith-based and
community organizations. Although the playing field is far from
level, the ability to access these offices ensures that issues
of concern to organizations like World Vision will receive the
attention they deserve.
I would be glad to entertain any questions you have. Thank
you for allowing us to testify.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Howard follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Turner. Thank you.
Pastor Jones.
STATEMENT OF REVEREND MICHAEL JONES
Reverend Jones. Thank you, Chairman Turner, Ranking Member
Clay, and other subcommittee members, for this opportunity to
share with you Friendly Temple's accomplishment with community
revitalization.
Friendly Temple Church, also known as FTMBC, is a faith-
based organization committed to leveraging its resources and
building relationships to revitalize its community surrounding.
With the establishment of nonprofit corporations, development
of several properties, coordination of congregational members,
and the collaboration with various community partners, FTMBC
has been able to make a significant impact on the community it
serves.
Friendly, also known as FTMBC, is located in the heart of
the inner city of St. Louis, MO. Our surrounding area is
characterized as one of the areas in the city of St. Louis with
the highest incident of poverty. We have, for example, one of
the highest incidents of unemployment; census tracts with the
highest proportion of persons living in poverty; highest
percentage of children living in poverty; poor housing; many
tracks of vacant, abandoned, and boarded up homes; also a high
incident of crime.
We are located in an area that many of you are all too
familiar with, that represents America's disinvested community.
Because of the needs, our congregation wanted to make a
difference in the lives of people around FTMBC, so we created a
nonprofit organization called Robert Fulton Development, Inc.
Many of FTMBC's outreach efforts are managed through Robert
Fulton, established in 1996, named in honor of our founding
pastor, Robert Fulton Davis. The mission of Robert Fulton is to
revitalize the community by maximizing the potential of all
community members through a holistic approach, focusing on six
areas: one is children and youth development; education; health
services; counseling; food and clothing; and affordable
housing. Through these six focus areas, with the dedication of
a strong volunteer base, Robert Fulton has been able to serve
the community with a number of initiatives from feeding the
hungry to tutoring school-aged children. These services operate
through and from FTMBC facilities and depend strongly on the
dedication of its members. FTMBC invests in the world of Robert
Fulton Inc.
The members of our church have contributed various skills
and talents to serve the needs of the community. There are a
number of individuals gifted with skills in areas like
organizational development, management, food preparation,
carpentry, general maintenance, and child care, key skills
needed in the delivery of the many outreach services offered
through the church. With just as much commitment there are also
a number of professionals who donate so much of their time and
efforts toward fulfilling the church's outreach mission. They
represent professionals such as education, counseling, law,
accounting, social work, computer science, engineering, and
architecture.
In addition to utilizing the skills and talents available
through the congregation, our church has also been successful
at building community partnerships with government entities,
Federal and local, corporations, other churches, colleges,
universities, and other community organizations. These
partnerships have enabled Friendly Temple to increase the
impact of its work by serving more people and developing
projects at a larger scope. Through the leveraging of resources
and building of relationships, we have been able to do much.
For example, we serve at least 4,000 individuals annually
through our various outreach programs; we have been able to
also develop 10 housing units for low to moderate-income
families through the renovation of decaying properties; develop
our first senior housing project; we also renovated a 40,000
square foot building, now known as our Family Life Center; we
have been given, granted, awarded, a 202 project and now the
second one is in the works; we also operate a VITA project as
well; and through the development of our corporation in the
last 5 years, we have been able to produce projects totaling at
least $15 million in gross abilities.
And because of the Executive Order 13279, many of our
faith-based organizations were pleased to hear that this
opportunity was made affordable unto us, and I will say that
our opportunity to share and to serve with HUD has been a
wonderful relationship with us, not only with our initial 202
program, but we have the second one coming, and they have
provided wonderful resources in support of our 202 programs as
well.
I think my time is up.
[The prepared statement of Reverend Jones follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Turner. Well, first off, I want to thank each of you
for participating today. I know it took a tremendous amount of
time for your participation and for your attendance. But also I
want to thank you for your dedication to your communities and
to the people whose lives you are trying to impact, because as
part of your ministry, this is certainly a giving effort, and
it is one that makes a big difference to our country and to our
neighborhoods. When we look at issues of community development
and community capacity building, we always find people who are
giving, taking time away from their professions or the lives of
their families, and I know with each of you that this is a love
that can be transforming for communities.
It is great to have a hearing where people talk, in terms
of social services, in the context of love, because so many
times the issues of outcomes can overshadow the most effective
delivery system we have, which is, of course, through love.
As you heard from the beginning panel that we had, panel
one, we focused on the changes that occurred that allowed
greater entry and access for faith-based organizations. We also
discussed a little bit the issue of the ease of access and what
needs to happen in capacity-building, and then we also talked
about whether there needs to be changes in the current
structure or status with need for legislation either to lower
additional impediments that may be present or to codify what
currently is there so that groups and organizations like yours
do not have your rug pulled out from underneath you. And then
also we talked about the issue of the reverse conversion of the
fear of government imposing upon you the conversion from
religious organizations, religious-focused organizations to
secular organizations.
I would like to start our discussion really focusing on
those four things, but with the first question of looking at
faith-based organizations and the access to Federal funds, both
from your own perspective and what you see from assisting other
faith-based organizations, what help do you or they need
currently in facilitating the access to these Federal funds?
Mr. Knox.
Mr. Knox. Well, I appreciate the question. I think in We
Care's case, the greatest impact it has made, even today
training 115 organizations, is the technical training to
understand how to access the funds. I think a couple years ago,
when this all came about, there was a great groundswell in
interest, and at the We Care offices the phone was ringing off
the hook: how do I access it; what do I do? People thought the
floodgates were going to open. They quickly realized two
things: No. 1, there was a fear developed about taking the
money, which is a good thing. People ought to know it is the
right thing for their organization. But, second, like the
distinguished lady next to me said, people spend months working
on grants; they take existing staff, because they can't afford
new staff, and pull them away from current projects to work on
different grants.
And I think that making the funds available for training
and also equipping organizations like We Care and other faith-
based organizations who are helping educate the ability to have
technical training on call to increase their Web tools, to
increase allow the smaller organizations--a lot of them are
budgets of $100,000, $200,000 $300,000, maybe even less--to
access technology to be able to increase their capabilities to
access the funds. And I think the education, the technical
assistance is extremely important in that regard. Otherwise,
people get frustrated 3 or 4 months in and stop, and will never
ever attempt to access it again.
Mr. Turner. Sister Rose.
Sister Wilenhaus. He said it perfectly. It is the technical
training and the ability to hire staff that can carry that out.
Mr. Turner. Mr. Howard.
Mr. Howard. I think a common theme you have heard, both in
the earlier testimony and in what you are hearing here, is
capacity-building is a huge issue for smaller grassroots
organizations, something World Vision has been working on as
well. As Pastor DeLeon was referenced in the earlier testimony
from Mr. Knox, the other issue is the education of State and
local officials about the faith-based initiative and the impact
of the imposition of local ordinances and regulations on faith-
based organizations when it is tied to the use of Federal
funds. I think that would be of huge assistance.
Mr. Turner. Reverend Jones.
Reverend Jones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also agree with
capacity-building. Our organization has really been working for
a number of years in this area and has also talented and gifted
people who volunteer much of their time and services to our
work. If we had the ability to bring those people on, it could
really increase our opportunities of expansion, and growth as
well. Second, I would also mention that I think it would be
helpful, as we have had, an entry point of contact within the
organization such as HUD. We have always had someone to
facilitate us, to oversee us, and to really support our work as
well, and I think that point of contact is critical as well.
Mr. Turner. Very good.
At this point I am going to defer to Mr. Clay.
Mr. Clay. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Let me start with Sister Wilenhaus.
Sister Wilenhaus. Yes.
Mr. Clay. Welcome.
Sister Wilenhaus. Thank you.
Mr. Clay. Let me say, as a faith-based nonprofit
organization, how have the recent charitable choice rules
improved the climate for St. Mary's to provide social services?
Specifically, Catholic Charities has been utilizing government
funds for years, so how have these changes improved your
ability to provide services?
Sister Wilenhaus. Thank you. We probably would have never
thought to apply for a Federal grant if this change had not
come about. So that was a big start for our organization. We
have also been able to think about partnering with other
agencies that we didn't believe we would be able to do. So that
is extremely important to a small nonprofit, to be able to hold
hands with a bigger organization.
Mr. Clay. Thank you for that response.
Mr. Howard, in your experience, has the self-imposed
restriction on religious hiring requirements limited the number
of persons qualified to work for World Vision? Do you find a
shortage of qualified workers with restrictions such as this?
And wouldn't religious restrictions hinder the quality of work,
since you don't always have the best people to provide
services?
Mr. Howard. Thank you, Mr. Clay. We haven't had that
experience to be true in the United States. We have always been
able to find highly qualified people who are willing to make a
change in their lifestyle to come to work for a nonprofit
organization, even one that imposes the kind of faith
restrictions that we have. We have not found that to be
difficult.
Mr. Clay. OK. You mentioned Youthbuild, which I am very
high on; I think it is a great program that helps young people
transition to world of work.
Mr. Howard. Absolutely.
Mr. Clay. What is the difference in having someone with a
religious affiliation or with a nonsectarian affiliation teach
those kids?
Mr. Howard. For us it goes to the fundamental issue of
people who share our concerns and our mission. It is not so
much the technical capabilities that drives the issue around
religious hiring restrictions, it is those who share our
passion, who share our faith, who shares what drives us. We do
what we do because of who we are. We don't do what we do
because we can do it, we do it because of who we are as
Christians.
Mr. Clay. OK. Well, thank you for that response.
Pastor Jones, welcome. Generally speaking, Pastor, what are
the areas of greatest need in the St. Louis community, are they
housing related or are there other pressing needs, such as
social services, emergency shelter, day care programs, that
need to be addressed? What do you see as the greatest need?
Reverend Jones. Congressman, I see probably all of the
above. We try and reach out in many areas of the mentioned
areas that you have listed there, and housing is critical,
especially in our area. Outreach services, once a person lives
and moves within a community, they then will need additional
resources to work and additional resources for their children,
additional resources for other capacities as well. So I see a
combination of all the above as we try and reach the entire
individual as well.
Mr. Clay. Having visited your offices in November of last
year, I saw first-hand that you are a well deserved recipient
of the 2003 HUD St. Louis Field Office Shining Star Award. You
obviously know how to design and implement a program from its
creation to completion. As you work with other faith-based and
nonprofit social service groups, what practices can you share
to help them become more effective and efficient in their
operations, and are there universal managerial practices that
you consider key to fulfilling a project's goal?
Reverend Jones. Yes. Thank you, Congressman. We have, in
our area, established a coalition of churches, religious
leaders who are working together to try and achieve similar
goals, and in and with this organization we think that there
are skills and talents within the framework of the organization
where we can share with each other strengths and weaknesses,
and try and improve upon the weaknesses and share the strengths
within, which creates an opportunity for effective service to
the community and effective application of resources, a
disbursement of resources efficiently within the community as
well.
Our experience within this organization, there are some
smaller churches who have not the experience that maybe we
have, and we have an opportunity to share with them, to help
educate them, to train them within and enable them to put them
in position to do work as we do it as well.
Mr. Clay. Someone like mentoring.
And my final question, Mr. Chairman, as a faith-based
community development organization, have you encountered
resistance from other foundations or private funding sources to
partner with because of your religious affiliation?
Reverend Jones. I can't say directly that we have. We have
been blessed with many opportunities, but I will tell you that
primarily our organization and our church has really funded
itself through its own resources. We have been assisted greatly
by the resources that the Federal Government has given us, but
we always would like to be partners, bringing our portion to
the table and working with individuals. So since we have
something to bring to the table, we typically are not rejected,
often, when we are applying.
Mr. Clay. Thank you. Thank you for your responses.
I thank the entire table for their responses. I appreciate
it, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Turner. Pastor Jones, I would love to hear your
thoughts on the issue of being a faith-based organization,
being required to hire those individuals who have no faith, or
even individuals who might be antagonistic to faith, what
impact, if any, that might have on your faith-based
organization.
Reverend Jones. Well, interesting for us, we are in a
unique position. Our membership totals over 4,000, and we have
a great wealth of talented pool of people who are qualified and
would love to share in our work and in our ministry as well.
But even when we have had the opportunity to hire from without,
we typically don't see any problems, if you will, with hiring
individuals such as those who may not share the same faith or
the same religious commitment that we have. We have done it. We
have partnerships, we have relationships with them and it has
worked well.
Mr. Turner. I want to congratulate you on your success. Mr.
Clay was commenting on the size of your organization and your
effective outreach program. So that is certainly a sign of
excellent success, and the numbers of people that you are
reaching.
I want to turn back to the topics that we had in the first
panel, and if you could talk about current restrictions that
still might be an impediment. We have talked about local
ordinances. If there are others that you know of that we need
to take into consideration, it would be great to hear those
from you.
Mr. Knox. Well, I think one of the things I notice from a
little bit more of a global board perspective of working with
We Care America is the perception and the fear of organizations
who could leverage faith-based organizations to a new level, a
fear of getting involved. For instance, I feel like the
corporate sector, which traditionally gives a larger amount of
money, only maybe 2 to 3 percent of that money goes to faith-
based organizations because there is a perception of what that
may entail. And I think the education of the corporate
community, understanding what the Federal Government is doing
to bring down those walls, can leverage, maybe even double some
of the funds that are coming into these organizations.
The second thing that I think is more of a knowledge basis
across the country of best practices, and I think that one of
the things that needs to be done, if possible, is to track the
performance of organizations that have received funds, how they
have done it professionally, how the accountability brought on
by receiving Federal funds has helped in their growth, and
allow other organizations to grow in that.
So they can probably answer a little more directly on some
of the restrictions. Again, we train people on what those
restrictions are, but I think that a lot of it also is in the
perception and allowing others to get involved.
Mr. Turner. Sister Rose.
Sister Wilenhaus. I also agree that it is the perception of
what a not-for-profit faith-based organization is doing that
sometimes causes other groups not to want to fund or to give
you the assistance that you might need. Maybe some of that is
our own fault, as faith-based organizations, that we don't
speak to what we really do strong enough and loud enough in the
community.
Mr. Turner. Mr. Howard.
Mr. Howard. We have already spoken to the regulations. I
think to go through and look at all the various programs that
faith-based organizations could quality for domestically and
just ensure the charitable choice and all the provisions of the
faith-based initiatives are instituted in all those programs
across, the stipulations are removed from the restrictions. As
I stated earlier, I think the next big issue that we are going
to be facing is the implementation at the State and local level
of Federal block grant funds, and working with local and State
officials like the lady from Alabama who shared this morning, a
great example of a State that is taking a proactive stance,
trying to facilitate that. Not all States are doing that, and
certainly very few municipalities and localities.
Mr. Turner. Pastor Jones.
Reverend Jones. Thank you, Chairman. As we stated earlier,
I think the restrictions or the limitations are with the
capacity-building and some of the other supportive areas that
we could benefit from. I also think that communication within
not only our circle, but from the government's point of view.
Often, I think that when people hear faith-based initiative or
faith-based, they think immediately money, they think that
there are dollars that are going to just be freely given. And I
think that in the training and in the dialog, it is critical to
communicate clearly the qualifications and what is expected of
each organization as we apply and pursue these kinds of deals
or opportunities.
Mr. Turner. I have a couple more questions that are not
necessarily for the whole panel, so I am just going to break
for a moment and call this the commercial section of the
testimony. You all have had the opportunity to talk about what
you have done in the past, and I would like for you for a
moment, if you will, to just tell me for the record some of the
things that you have on the board, some of the things that you
foresee that you want to accomplish, your dream and vision of
where you are going as we partner together in the faith-based
initiative.
Pastor Jones, you are smiling the biggest, so I will let
you start.
Reverend Jones. Well, I smiled first, chairman, because I
am a preacher and we have limited time. But we are encouraged
by our community work and our partnerships within our
community. We mentioned earlier our second 202 project which
has been funded will have over 100 units within this community;
and we are looking to build market rate homes. We are acquiring
apartments to provide housing for individuals in our community;
youth worship center, youth recreational centers; strip mall,
which would also demand commercial development as well within
our organization, we are looking to do that; an additional
school that we are hoping to do as well.
So we have a variety, a myriad of things that we are
looking forward to doing. And the support that we receive, we
must admit and I must admit, enables us to really pool our
resources in a different way in order that we can maximize our
resources. So we have a lot we are doing, and this has just
provided those kind of opportunities for us.
Mr. Howard. World Vision is working presently in about
eight metropolitan areas in the inner city. Our focus is mostly
on at-risk youth and on substandard housing. We would like to
expand that to more cities. We would like to be able to expand
our ability to help develop capacity for other organizations.
When you say what would you like to do in the future, what we
really need is have one of our program folks here who can talk
to when you see a kid who has been in and out of the juvenile
justice system, and you see the change that you can make by
getting them out of that system and giving them positive role
models, and putting them together with people in his community
or her community that make a difference, and you have the
opportunity to expand that across a broader area, you would
grab every chance you could.
So those are the three principal areas we work in, is
trying to build capacity, working with at-risk youth, and then
making contributions of both gifts-in-kind from the
corporations, but also from the U.S. Government, available on
as broad a basis as possible.
Sister Wilenhaus. St. Mary Development is, of course,
working hard on that 202 project that we want to do.
Specifically, we would like to do the housing on the Veterans
Administration grounds, and we would hope that many of our
future residents would be veterans ourselves. We have partnered
and done tax credits, single-family homes, and now our part of
the work begins, and that is the education of the families who
will be moving in. St. Mary's says a lot of people can put a
roof over someone's house. We say we want to keep the people in
that house. And we intend to do that through education, and we
will also do that through hand-holding, which takes a lot of
staff and a lot of special time.
We would like to work with Trotwood, OH and their grandiose
plan of changing the Salem Dayton Mall into a new face and a
new use, and that will be a new venture for us. We are going to
open early childhood classes in the fall, and this will be
working with children 3, 4, and 5, because, again, we believe
that the sooner you can educate someone, the better chance they
have. So we want to work not only with the children, but with
their parents.
Dayton is also experiencing a strong influx of Hispanic
families, so since I know nothing in Spanish, you know there is
something I have to learn and our staff will have to learn,
because we believe that we are there to help them become
acclimated to Dayton and make Dayton a better place.
Mr. Knox. I think a couple of things that We Care America
will be focusing on is one I touched on earlier, is as this
whole process evolves and money is being accessed and faith-
based organizations are growing and it is becoming more
commonplace, we are seeing a greater interest in the corporate
community, so what we are trying to do is create a new thrust
within the organization to meet with the corporate community
organizations and large Fortune 500 companies who have never
given to faith-based organizations.
And with the credibility of also working and receiving
funds from the Federal Government, coming to them and saying
why don't we leverage this money together in your community,
and we are getting great feedback on that. So what we are
seeing is kind of a coalition of the government, faith-based
organizations, and the corporate community.
Second is centers in major cities, and actually the CCF,
which is the Capitol Fund, is also starting the process of
starting centers in individual cities where we can bring
together the best practices. We Care America doesn't actually
perform the work on the ground, it empowers and helps other
organizations to do it. And if there were centers where local
smaller, non-profit, faith-based organizations come to and
receive information on the best practices, what is working for
after-school programs, mentoring programs, drug rehab programs,
to bring it into practice in your own organization, and maybe
receiving money from the Federal Government and from
corporations, but to have a local entity that can do that.
And I think the third thing is to help these
organizations--I had mentioned earlier in my testimony, just a
local organization I am not affiliated with in southeastern
Virginia, received $38,000, but what it did was, as part of
that grant process, it professionalized their organization; it
made them hire a real board, it got their budgets together,
they hired key personnel. And they grew from $100,000 to
$300,000, $350,000 just by making those changes, without
receiving further money. But now they have the capacity for
more. So I think accessing whatever can be done for those
organizations to help them grow.
And the last thing is when you go to these training
programs, people are seeing a new faith in their government, I
think, because they are there and the government is paying them
to train how to professionalize their organization, but not
only that, training them on how to access funds, their tax
dollars. And that is an empowering thought. And I think by
changing this from an Executive order and creating legislation,
hopefully that will continue the faith in that process and
people will feel like they should continue to invest in
learning how to do it, because it is not going to go away.
Mr. Turner. Mr. Howard, next I have a question that is
exclusively for you, and before I ask it I want to make a note
for the record that the entire membership of panel two are
individuals who are individuals of faith, representing faith-
based organizations, and Mr. Howard being general counsel, as
an attorney, is certainly an example that the legal profession
and people of faith are not mutually exclusive.
Mr. Howard. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Turner. And being a lawyer, that is an important
distinction for me to make. But the question that I want to
return to from the first panel is that there is a concern,
obviously, about the issue of faith-based organizations
advancing faith versus advancing social services, and there is
a tremendous effort, both through the regulations and through
the actual practice, to ensure that what the Federal Government
is funding is social service provision and not religious
provision. On the converse side, there is also a significant
amount of concern from faith-based organizations that by
entering this realm, they may be subjecting themselves to
regulation or rules and laws that diminish their ability to
operate as religious or faith-based organizations.
My staff gave me a copy of a case, Catholic Charities of
Sacramento v. Department of Managed Health Care in California,
where the Catholic Charities sought relief from a law that they
believed would cause them to have to operate in a way that
violated their religious principles or philosophy. And the
court applied from that law a four-part test to determine
whether or not they should be excluded from it as a religious
group or not, and the four-part test was: was the corporate
purpose the direct inculcation of religious values; does it
primarily employ persons of its religious beliefs; does it
serve people of all faiths and backgrounds; and is it a
501(c)(3), all of which are tests many times that you are
required to be able to pass in order to receiving funding.
So you are both setting up a test and requiring people to
satisfy it to access funding, and then using the same test to
determine that you are no longer a religious organization;
therefore, we can fully and completely regulate you without any
restriction that might impact your religious beliefs or faith's
operation. Would you want to comment on that?
Mr. Howard. Well, I would be curious to know if that is
California State court or if that is a Federal court. That does
make a little bit different----
Mr. Turner. It is California.
Mr. Howard. It is California courts?
Mr. Turner. Yes. California Supreme Court, I believe. Yes,
Supreme Court of California.
Mr. Howard. Supreme Court of California. I have not read
that case, but based on the four tests that you have set out,
World Vision wouldn't have any difficulty meeting those four
tests. We do work with churches, we do work with pastors in our
programming, and we do what we do because of our faith, and
that is our motivation. You can't separate that out. The reason
we do something, you can't separate it out from the actual
provision of the service.
We would never say in order to receive this benefit, this
support that is federally funded, that you have to sit through
a sermon or participate in a Bible study or convert to a
different religion. That is not what we do. We don't
proselytize. When we do work with churches and local pastors--
for instance, when we want to raise the capacity of local
pastors to minister to their community, so we might put
together a pastor's resource center--we make sure that is
funded with private funds, separate in time and location from
the work that we do that is federally funded. We have been
doing that for 30 years on the international side. When we work
with local missionaries and local pastors to help build their
capacities in the country, we make sure that is funded
separately from any funds that we receive from the U.S. Agency
for International Development.
We do give the benefit of what we do to everybody who
comes. In fact, the majority of our beneficiaries around the
world are not Christians, they are mostly Muslims and Buddhists
and Agamous. So we don't make that kind of discrimination, so
we wouldn't have any difficulty with that.
Mr. Turner. Mr. Howard, I want you to comment, though, on
is the reverse of your concerns of once you're complying with
the----
Mr. Howard. Once we receive the funds?
Mr. Turner. Yes. You are complying by not crossing the line
to providing religious services versus social services.
Mr. Howard. Right.
Mr. Turner. But now you may have opened yourself to
regulation and the impact of laws that might go to the issue of
impacting your religious beliefs or your operations violate
those tenets. Do you, as I have heard from others, as faith-
based organizations, have a concern that process might result
in a back door, if you will, of regulating practices of faith?
Mr. Howard. Well, that risk always exists. You know, the
old song is the ability to tax is the ability to destroy, and
the ability to withdraw funds or to compel funds or to compel
complaints with that is always a risk for anyone who receives
Federal funding. We look for each program that we are going to
propose for our grant very carefully, and if we were concerned
that we thought there might be a creeping imposition on us, we
would choose not to. Our Board of Directors, which comes from
all works of life from all over the United States, has made it
very clear that if at any point in time Federal funding would
restrict our ability to maintain our religious activities, we
would stop taking Federal funds, plain and simple.
Mr. Turner. At this point I would like to open it for any
closing comments that you might have as a result of having
heard others or other thoughts that you might want to include
in the record before we conclude.
Mr. Knox. Sister Rose.
Sister Wilenhaus. I would certainly like to partner with
everybody at the table. I am in Dayton, OH. Be sure you look at
that.
Mr. Turner. I was going to suggest that everyone exchange
cards before this is over.
Mr. Howard. One other thought. One of the programs--the
Empowerment Zone--is one other issue where there are
restrictions on religious staffing issues that you might have
your staff look into. One of the issues facing the inner city,
of course, is incredible poverty, and what we can do, what we
can't to help facilitate the growth of local and small business
through Empowerment Zone funding. We would love to participate
in that, but have been precluded from doing so so far.
Mr. Turner. Anyone else? If not, I want to thank you all
for participating. I appreciate the time that you have spent in
preparing. It is certainly important to recognize the
compassionate work and praiseworthy results achieved by faith-
based organizations. Regardless of religious affiliation, these
organizations strengthen American families and neighborhoods. I
am pleased to hear of the efforts underway at HUD to assist
these groups, and I hope that Congress will continue to support
the President's initiative in community development efforts
carried out by faith-based organizations.
In the event there are any additional questions that we did
not have time for today, the record shall remain open for 2
weeks for the submission of questions and answers. Thank you
all.
We will be adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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