Interview with NBC for Prime Time Special "Farewell to Tom Brokaw"

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I knew when they were going to fall over Baghdad, since I communicated the execute order from the President to launch the Tomahawks, and I knew that the war had already begun before the bombs landed on Baghdad because we had sent attack helicopters across the border to start taking out the early warning radar systems that the Iraqis had so that arms could penetrate more easily. And it was one of those moments where you know the missiles have been launched. You know that they are now at cruise altitude and they're flying in and you wait for the results. You wait for those first results to tell you what's happened. And we got the first results really by radio coverage from the famous Rashid Hotel.

MS. KARLSON: And, tell me, before the ground war began, there were widespread fears about heavy American casualties, which turned out, of course, not to be the case. And if you could tell me -- you know, again, take me back to the moment that you realized that this victory was going to be swift and decisive with relatively little loss of American life.

SECRETARY POWELL: We didn't know what the loss of life might be. There are all sorts of estimates: 10,000, 20,000 dead. General Schwarzkopf and I thought it would be much smaller, but we were still thinking in the low thousands, several thousand. And I knew that we were off to a good start when the ground war began and I expected to have a lot of resistance right in front of the attacking troops only to discover that the Marines, who were going straight ahead, had snuck under the wire and penetrated through the sand berms into the Iraqi positions so that when the ground war actually began within hours we were through their lines. And once you have penetrated that frontline of resistance and you're in the rear, then you're on a roll.

MS. KARLSON: What did that mean to you personally that this was not going to be a large loss of American life?

SECRETARY POWELL: It was a great relief. I mean, I knew so many of those officers. I knew so many of those troops that were going in. The units that I had commanded in the 101st Airborne Division would be going in. More importantly, each and every one of those young American soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines was somebody's kid, somebody's loved one. And there were also Iraqis that were going to die, young Iraqis. They have parents. They have families. So we wanted to finish this war as quickly as possible with the minimum loss of life. And that's what we succeeded in doing.

MS. KARLSON: And, you know, when you learned that this was going to be a swift and decisive victory, what was your reaction?

SECRETARY POWELL: There was a great deal of concern that casualties would be high. Some experts said it could be 10,000, 20,000. General Schwarzkopf and I thought it would be in the low thousands. And it was just before the major ground effort got underway that I got word that the Marines on the frontlines had penetrated in the quiet, in the night, through the Iraqi frontlines, through the water, through the sand berms and in open lanes for the troops to go pouring through that I realized we would crack through the front part of the Iraqi defense.

And as soon as they did that and the Marines started pouring through, heading to Kuwait City, I knew that we were on a roll. And that's when General Schwarzkopf and I talked and we sent the U.S. Army 7th Corps around the flank quickly in order to get to Baghdad from the west. And at that point, we were moving so fast and we had so shattered their defense that I was no longer concerned about large numbers of casualties. There would be casualties and every life lost is a precious one but it wouldn't be anything like, of course, people had suggested.

MS. KARLSON: I appreciate it. I want to talk again about 2003. I want to talk about Operation Iraqi Freedom. And I wanted to know if, you know, given what we now know about the state of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, do you have any regrets about the case you were making to the international community in the months and weeks leading up to the war?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, because the intelligence we had, which was intelligence that was accepted by all of the major nations of the world, is that Iraq had the intention and capability to have such weapons, had used such weapons in the past; graves are still being uncovered show the victims of such weapons.

And we also believe, based on all of the intelligence we had, that they had stockpiles of such weapons and that made them a danger. And the nexus of the presence of those kinds of weapons with an evil regime like Saddam Hussein's and now terrorists lose upon the world as we saw in 9/11 made it a case that the President took to the United Nations and got a resolution saying that this was not acceptable; and then when it became time to do something about that which was not acceptable, then the UN was not able to act, the President pulled together a willing coalition.

Now, we have subsequently learned that the stockpiles were not there, but all of the other pieces were there. The President made a right decision.

MS. KARLSON: Okay. I want to ask one question about Vietnam. As of course you know, Vietnam -- the Vietnam war was a very decisive event in the 1960's in America. And I want to understand if for you there was a moment at which you thought, you know, can we actually get through this war? Is this a winnable war? Did you yourself have doubts about the war?

SECRETARY POWELL: After going to Vietnam twice over a period of six, seven years and coming home from that second tour in Vietnam and not seeing that we were on a winning course, then I had doubts as to whether we'd be able to prevail. When I got back home in 1969 and could see the turmoil it was causing throughout our country, the general turmoil that existed in the United States with the racial problems, drug problems, the murder of Robert Kennedy, the murder of Martin Luther King, in a few years, a Vice President and a President would resign from office, this was a very difficult time in America and I wondered how we would get out of this.

And we did get out of it. I don't think in the best possible way. We got out of it by turning it over to the Vietnamese, bringing our troops home, but then I think we made a big mistake by not providing the Vietnamese the support they were promised. Would things have turned out differently? Who knows. I believe we let them down in a moment of truth, a moment of decision. We should have supported the South Vietnamese.

MS. KARLSON: Returning home from Desert Storm there was that famous ticker tape parade in New York, your hometown. Put me in your shoes. Tell me about that moment for you and what that meant, especially vis-à-vis the troops returning from Vietnam.

SECRETARY POWELL: It was a magical day going up the avenues of New York with my wife and General Schwarzkopf and all of the others, and all of the troops marching, and it was almost as if I was in another world to think that this was happening to me; and then to get to the reviewing stand and to stand there with Norm and the others, Secretary Cheney, and watch the troops go by so proud and the American people so proud of them really gave the nation a boost.

We did something. We did it well. This voluntary army that we had spoken about so much was every bit as good as we told the American people it could be. And it was. And then we had another parade, of course, here in Washington, which was just as exciting. And it is a great military force that we have. It continues to be a great force doing fantastic work for the nation in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and so many other places in the world, a force that is certainly worthy of the support of the American people, the respect of the American people and the love of the American people.

MS. KARLSON: And was that particular poignant for you in terms of your experience coming back from the Vietnam war?

SECRETARY POWELL: When I came home from Vietnam, I essentially came here to Washington, went to graduate school, and waited to see how much tear gas would flow though the George Washington University campus because of demonstrations. There was no joy coming home from Vietnam.

MS. KARLSON: And at the end of Operation Desert Storm, knowing what we know now, do you think at the time that troops should have pushed forward and taken out Saddam Hussein?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, it's a false question that's been coming up for years, for the simple reason that nobody every said we were going to do anything more than what we did, which was to eject the Iraqi army from Kuwait. We did that. That was the political direction of the President. It was the direction of the Congress. It was the resolution of the United Nations that said that, that caused us to put together a tremendous coalition. And to all of those who claim that they said at the time, "We should have gone to Baghdad," I don't remember hearing their voices at the time. We had a clear cut mission which we accomplished and accomplished it very well.

SECRETARY POWELL: Hey, Tom, from me, personally, and from all of your colleagues and friends here at the State Department, I want to wish you all the best, as you step down from Nightly News, and I want to thank you for all that you have done to help bring the news to the American people. And I also know we'll be seeing a lot of you in many other ways, on many other programs. Good luck, my friend.

SECRETARY POWELL: Okay?

MS. KARLSON: Thank you so much.

SECRETARY POWELL: No, thank you.

MS. KARLSON: It's an honor to be here.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you.

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