Interview by Domestic Print Journalists

(10:30 a.m. EDT)

QUESTION: On the record?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Yeah, on the record.

QUESTION: Let's talk -- let's start with today. Let's talk about your reaction to events today, what you think it foretold, or foretells, for the rest of the country.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, of course, we are witnessing a manifestation of an Iraqi people desire to be free from tyranny and torture and oppression. So that's a good thing.

But from our point of view in the administration, we think there is a lot of work yet to be done, particularly in the northern part; continue to work in Baghdad, but in the northern part of the country where Mosul and Kirkuk and Tikrit and Al-Qaim are still controlled by the enemy. So there is a lot of work left to be done and I wouldn't want to leave anyone with the misimpression that the job was finished.

QUESTION: What do you see, though, in the next 48 hours?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think, you know, from south-north we'll be continuing to provide food and water, fix infrastructure where we can, infrastructure which wasn't damaged by the virtue or razed by the coalition forces, but damaged by at least 12 years, if not more, of inattention, and deliberate inattention, by Saddam Hussein.

We'll be working to, as we move north through Baghdad, to try to clear out sporadic pockets of disquiet. We think the fractious behavior that you witnessed in Basra, and to some extent in Baghdad, will settle down. We weren't surprised by it or weren't unexpecting of it, and the word we're getting from CENTCOM now is it's beginning to calm down.

As I understand it, primarily the looting was directed against symbols of the government, for the most part -- not entirely -- and that's beginning to settle down.

Now, as I say, we'll continue to move north to try to consolidate this.

QUESTION: You've got Iraqi opposition forces on the ground. Mr. Chalabi is on the ground as well. I understand from the Pentagon that they're being trained.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I heard that yesterday by Victoria Clarke.

QUESTION: And the administration has repeatedly said that the Iraqi people will pick the Iraqi leaders in due course. But do you see, having this Chalabi on the ground and some forces on the ground, as those people having a leg up or an advantage in Iraq?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think ultimately, again, it will be the Iraqis who make the decision of who will represent them. Our view has been that there is certainly enough work and enough effort that will require the participation of Iraqis who have been in the diaspora, such as Mr. Chalabi and others (inaudible) Iraqis who were recently liberated, those who have lived under oppression. And already we're seeing CENTCOM seeing other (inaudible) of the U.S. Government, people step forward in local areas and begin to provide leadership in local areas. And they're people, as I say, who have served under oppression.

And I think that the balance of this is going to be decided by Iraqis, not by coalition forces, not by the U.S. So I don't see it as giving them a leg up. I see Mr. Chalabi's efforts as a continuation of what I understand has been 20 years of his own effort to try to bring about a change in the regime. I don't see necessarily that we're putting our thumb on the scale.

QUESTION: May I switch the focus to the Mideast for a moment?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: To the Mideast for a moment? Could I ask you a Mideast question?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Yes, of course.

QUESTION: The Israelis seem not to believe that the administration is sincere about pressing forward with the roadmap without any changes. They seem to believe that it's open to discussion and that they're not going to be pressured to make concessions on settlements, for instance. What is the situation?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: The roadmap, we have said consistently we welcome comments on it. We don't believe there is more negotiations to be done, that the negotiations, the talk as we go into the future, should be between the two parties.

We're anxious for Abu Mazen to put together a government, have him confirmed. The President and the Prime Minister I think spoke eloquently about this yesterday in Hillsborough Castle. Our President made it quite clear that he was going to devote as much energy and attention to the search for peace in the Middle East as Prime Minister Blair devoted to the ongoing search for peace in Northern Ireland.

QUESTION: So does that mean when the Israelis talk about having their own list of ten or a hundred amendments, or however many, that that's not open to discussion?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I said they're welcome to comment on it, but as I understand it, it's not open to negotiation. We think the negotiations should be between the two partners -- the two parties, excuse me.

Yes, sir.

QUESTION: When will General Garner or a member of his team go to Baghdad? I think Barbara Bodine is supposed to be the --

QUESTION: -- the mayor of Baghdad?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I don't think she'd accept the title of mayor, or mayoress, whatever the proper term is. Barbara -- certainly we've been communicating with her today. They're going to be falling in on Baghdad International Airport shortly. Falling in by -- coming aboard Baghdad International Airport shortly.

QUESTION: Today?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I don't know if it's today or not, but it'll be shortly.

QUESTION: And how do you -- are the troops now in and around Baghdad going to have to become cops?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, there is a certain amount of civic affairs work to be done. There is a certain -- and army units, military units, are trained for that. Certain military police activities.

We think that after things settle down a bit that we'll be able to work with local police forces who are not Baath Party hierarchy under our supervision, that is, coalition supervision. There are military forces, as I expressed to the earlier question, are going to be engaged in fighting for some time. That's what they're geared for.

But we have coming behind, as I say, civic affairs units, and you'll find that happening in the south now, behind military police units. We'll also find -- we have them in USAID -- what we call abuse prevention teams, which are teams that go in and actually try to resolve revenge, things of that nature, short of any physical harm. Those teams are already ready to flow into Iraq.

QUESTION: Is that a big -- what's the size of that?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Oh, I don't know. Phil, will you get that for him, would you?

MR. REEKER: Actually, yeah, they were supposed to send me a couple sentences on it. It's part of a DART.

QUESTION: Actually, just on that same subject, looking into not so much whether you all can work with the police, but between now and then you've got a war to fight on the one hand, and the police are now in place and the civil affairs are not there. Can you talk about the next couple of days and how you anticipate keeping order, whether it's a matter of staying backloaded or -- how (inaudible) order?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: We're seeing in Basra, after what I've described as initially fractious behavior, settling down now, just as we develop local leaders who are able to say, "Calm down." For instance, at the staff meeting this morning, we were told an anecdote about, in the Basra area, some very exuberant Iraqis wanted to burn certain symbols of the regime, and a teacher -- Phil, were you there?

MR. REEKER: No.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: A teacher who stood up -- and I think the crowd -- I was told numbering about 1,000 -- he stood up and said, look, it's over, we've got to think about the future, not the past, and the crowd quieted down. So I think those displays of local and neighborhood leadership will start to come forward as soon as the initial exuberance has calmed down.

QUESTION: So you see that as a first sort of line in the sand, actually Iraqis doing it to themselves?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think absolutely. And generally, leadership does show. At least that's what we're seeing in the south. And it's a very -- you know, there's no one size fits all, particularly given a country as complex as Iraq. In the south, in the area I just told you about, in Basra, it was, as I was told, a teacher. In Karbala and Najaf and places like that, they have been imams who have come forward. I just received a ticker from -- quoting Iran, Iranians saying that the coalition forces have been very scrupulous about the holy places, first the sacred tombs of Ali Hussein, which is very much calming to the local population and a very conciliatory gesture from Iran.

QUESTION: Can I get you to step back just a little bit and look more at your task ahead diplomatically, and where you see -- and now that there may be a tipping point in the war, where you see you have to move diplomatically the most carefully and forcefully?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think there are lot of things to do. First of all, we have to be very concerned with our Turkish friends to make sure that their red lines are respected and we don't inadvertently cause some difficulties in the north while we're having such relative success in the south. That was one of the purposes of Secretary Powell's trip.

I think you can see in the Secretary's trip the beginning of our diplomacy. He went to Brussels and that. I believe 21 or 22 bilateral meetings. Because we've had a lot of neuralgia coming out of this whole situation with Iraq, and the Secretary has gotten about resolving it.

We've got some, I think, very positive motion in the Gulf, in Bahrain and Jordan and UAE and Saudi Arabia. They see, you know, very clearly that in Iraq, in the region, which is not simply seen as a pariah or a threat, but actually can take part in a vibrant life in the region, very much to their benefit.

Another area of real concern, diplomatic concern to us, has to be both the situation in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and of course Kashmir regarding Pakistan and India.

And finally, the Secretary and the Prime -- excuse me -- the President and the Prime Minister yesterday made it very clear that there will be UN involvement. Kofi Annan has named, now, a special advisor for Iraq, Mr. Ahmed, who's quite well and favorably known to us, so there will be a good concentration of diplomatic activity in the United Nations, as well.

QUESTION: In that vein, though, as you move forward with the reconstruction efforts, I mean, I mean what work do you have to do to smooth over the feathers that were ruffled with some of our European friends in the framework of reconstruction to make sure that the situation doesn't get worse?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, we are welcoming the effort, so there's a lot of work. I want to, however, make sure that we understand, first of all, reconstruction in the same term. I think you'll see that as a general matter we've been pretty precise using precision weapons and that the majority of the reconstruction is reconstruction that was necessary after 12 years of neglect and deliberate neglect. Having said that, there's enough work, we believe, for anyone who wants to lend a hand.

The European feathers, as you described it, I think will be smoothed to some extent by Iraqis themselves as they express themselves, now free from Saddam Hussein's total grip around their necks. If what I'm seeing on Al Jazeera and other heretofore critical networks is a sign, then I think these feathers will be starting to be smoothed by actions of Iraqis, themselves. But clearly we need to indicate that we're not unilateralists, that we do desire to work in concert with other likeminded nations and that we understand this is a process where one nation doesn't get the entire say. And I think that's, as I say, what Secretary Powell began with the President's blessing the other day.

QUESTION: When you say, "smoothed over by Iraqis," how so?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think if Iraqis, the BBC, ITN, I believe or Sky Network News that came out the other day showing Iraqis who had been tortured -- they were lifting their shirts and showing these terrible scars and hearing these horrible stories -- it's becoming more and more clear to the public there was a terrible situation going on in Iraq, much like some concerned international citizens like the United States had been talking about. And I think as those stories become more prevalent and are exposed more and more, then many more people will see that war is terrible and war is horrible, but sometimes it's the alternative that has to be used, including our European friends.

QUESTION: Next door in Iran, of course, you have grave concern about the nuclear activities going on there. You now have a couple hundred thousand American troops in Iraq, a situation you hope will be stable soon, there. Why not use those, the presence of those troops, to place pressures on Iran vis-à-vis its nuclear program?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I've got about 92 reasons. The first is that the soldiers have performed valiantly and well, and it's not, I think, the desire of the Secretary of Defense or anyone else to keep them deployed permanently.

Second of all we believe there are other tools to be used and they are diplomatic tools. Iran is a different question and a different situation and a different country from the country of Iraq. We've got international bodies here such as IAEA who are involved with Iran and there's, I think, plenty of room for diplomatic maneuvering. Secretary Powell was asked the other day by, perhaps one of you, I don't know if you (inaudible) the other day who's next on the list.

You nodded. Did you ask him?

QUESTION: No. But I was there when he was asked.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Yeah, and he said that he hadn't seen the list, and that's right. I was talking to him this morning about it and was joking with him, where's the -- I think he'd know -- where's the list? There is no list.

QUESTION: But the fact that there is -- granted that there may not be a list, but you now have, you are now going to find yourself in a position of significant leverage that you didn't have before simply by virtue of the fact that you have this massive military presence right next door.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think that you can make anything of it that you wish, but the President and the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State have all expressed time and again that our desire is to leave these troops in Iraq only long enough to accomplish their missions, which is to prove political stability, uncover WMD, and then they don't want to stay a day longer. That has been said from day one. It has not changed, and if it changes, you'll be the second to know.

QUESTION: But is there a perception problem, though? I mean some countries have expressed concern, I mean, you know, the list --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Which countries have expressed concern?

QUESTION: Some people in Syria have expressed concern. The Iranians have expressed concern.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I haven't heard the Iranians' concern. We've been working quite closely with them on this whole question of Iraq. Syrians? Yes, they have expressed concerns, but I would note that as far as I'm informed, that in the last several days they have responded quite well to U.S. and coalition warnings and demarches about closing their borders and things of that nature and she has done so.

As my colleague and friend Paul Wolfowitz said the other day that we do believe the power of ideas and the ideas of democracy are ones that -- to which the Middle East is not immune and Syria needs to change, that does not equate to our using military muscle every time.

QUESTION: Two questions following up on what you said about the UN. Is UNMOVIC out of it institutionally or would they have a vital role in the search?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Using the word vital -- (laughter.)

QUESTION: Also robust.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Is that the other one? (Laughter.)

QUESTION: And do you need a new resolution that would basically give the United States as the occupying power the authority initially to tap oil revenues for the purpose of reconstruction?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I note two different questions. The question of UNMOVIC, I'm not sure -- do you know the answer? I know that perhaps UNMOVIC could be of some use. The fact of the matter is, we're there, the coalition partners. We're going to do our best to unmask these weapons of mass destruction. And whether there's a role for UNMOVIC or not, I will tell you that it might be a support role. But we're there. We're going to make sure business is taken care of.

On the question of oil --

QUESTION: That part was on UNMOVIC?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: That was for UNMOVIC. But Phil, you may know more --

MR. REEKER: I don't think any decisions have been made, but we've done (inaudible).

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: On the question of oil, the President and the Secretary have been pretty, I think, consistent on this -- that is, it belongs to the Iraqi people. That if we are in -- first of all, the oil fields are not in a position to start pumping for some time, I don't know. In the south, the majority of it, the great majority is in coalition hands. The north, we hope to continue as we have, so it will soon be the majority in coalition hands. And then it will take some period of time to repair lines and get things ready to go -- in a couple of months, I think.

We want to get in the situation where the energy ministry is able to be run, by and large, by Iraqis with some coalition advice. And any revenues that are realized would go into the Central Bank, the Central Bank of Iraq, not the Central Bank of the United States, to be used by Iraqis for reconstruction.

We are in the business and General Garner is in the business of trying to turn over some of these ministries to the Iraqis as quickly as possible, and some are obvious. Agriculture and transportation and things of this nature could really rapidly go over. Now, the Ministry of Defense will be a slower proposition for a lot of obvious reasons.

Whether or not that requires a UN Security Council resolution is something that people can discuss. We have noted, and the President noted yesterday, that we want to have appropriate UN resolutions which deal with assistance like humanitarian and medicine, all these things the UN so well brings to the table, as well as endorsing a post-conflict authority for Iraq.

So, by implication, I think you can see that there would be some sort of a UN resolution, but these are sort of intricate discussions which are going to be ongoing in New York with our Perm 5 and E10 partners.

QUESTION: Can I just follow up on that? Do you mind? If the Security Council, though, does not agree with this role of being kind of sidetracked, if you will, or being asked to give its consent or endorsement, if you encounter troubles with the Security Council, don't you foresee another huge battle and a replay of what happened before?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: No. I don't. We -- the battle of the past is over. I think the neuralgia is behind us. There seems to be a more of a willingness to move forward. I was very heartened as I think everyone was by Kofi's decision to -- Secretary General Annan's decision to appoint a special advisor.

As far as I know, that went down well with the other members of the Security Council. As I've said, these are going to be intricate discussions, but we think that the neuralgia of the past is over and we're thinking about the future, and Secretary Powell has started the discussions with his colleagues in Brussels the other day about moving toward a more -- a harmonious future.

QUESTION: You mention that you don't want a situation where it appears that one country has any higher unilateral say. In talking about creating the civil administration, both running the administration of Iraq and also more importantly, creating this interim Iraqi authority, how will you get other countries involved, or the UN involved?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think in the first instance, we have, already, 49 countries in the coalition.

QUESTION: (Inaudible.)

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, we have -- let me ask you a question. We have now, today, 49 countries in the coalition. So for starters, as we've said from the beginning, those who have stood up early, and particularly those who have sacrificed blood and treasure will have a lot to say about this, and I think that those who -- further, those who were willing to put boots on the ground, and there's a considerable number, though all of them didn't necessarily go into Iraq, they would want to be part of coordinating, coordinating the search for this interim Iraqi authority.

That seems to me both a reasonable and justifiable thing to bring about. The President noted that in Hillsborough that he would also be looking for the United Nations to provide their own advice on an interim Iraqi authority.

And as you have seen, there is a suggestion now that we're going to be moving out starting a series of sort of regional discussions letting Iraqis of all start -- getting to your question about -- you didn't say it, but I did, about a thumb on the scale -- letting Iraqis from all start to come together and start discussing their visions for an Iraq of the future, their visions for an eventual IIA, and their visions of what sort of process might lead them to a more permanent government. And that's what's going to be started in the not too distant future, regionally, throughout the -- throughout Iraq, and it's the beginning of a transparent process.

QUESTION: Just a follow-up on that. Does that mean that the IIA will not be set up in full for some time? Do you have a timetable on that?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I don't -- I can't give you a timetable because it's going to be dictated by the facts on the ground. I have already stated that all of Iraq is not free; all Iraqis are not free to speak their minds about this yet. And I believe personally that even if all of Iraq were liberated tomorrow, that there would be some residual fear, that because of 20 years of torturous treatment that people might be a little reluctant. It's going to take a little bit of time for them to get over their fear, and I can understand that. But I think that it's -- the facts on the ground are going to dictate the speed in which an IIA comes into being.

QUESTION: But it's after this series of meetings, do you think?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think reasonably so.

QUESTION: So that's a few weeks?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I am not going to put a timetable on it. We won't go there.

QUESTION: What do you hope that General Garner does when he arrives in Baghdad? And if I think about Afghanistan -- this is unrelated -- I think about Afghanistan, that the major problem from (inaudible) was security, providing security in different parts of the country. And, right now, you know, I think there will be a premium on providing security for eight groups, so they can go and start doing their work including (inaudible) employees.

Are there lessons that you have taken from Afghanistan to make security much more of a priority in your own country?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: The first lesson I take from Afghanistan is that this is a different situation, and you have been through this. But since you opened it, you got to listen to me. And I apologize to you, but it is true. Let me tell you that, unlike Afghanistan, Iraq is not a failed state. It was a torturous oppressive state, but it had education. Where Afghanistan was about 20 percent literate, here we're over 60 percent literate. They have a very well-developed middle class. And you have capable technocrats below the sort of leadership levels in I think every ministry. So they exist. They are starting to come back to work in Basra. They're the ones unloading ships, the second ship that went into Umm Qasr. So the first lesson I think there is a lot of differences here, and I think you start on a somewhat higher plane than we did in Afghanistan.

The security clearly will be a key element. But if what's going on, as I say, in Basra and Najaf and other places, it's key that the security, over time, will right itself. For a time, as I have said, coalition forces will remain to seek out and destroy WMD, and also to provide political stability. I can't give you a time period, but we don't want to stay a day longer than is necessary.

So I think the first lesson I take is there are a lot of differences and a lot of things that are somewhat more positive for a beginning spot in Iraq. I think, as I understand it, through Umm Qasr and Basra now, there are missions going up. Water and infrastructure are -- right now, in Basra, I was told today we have got 70 percent of the water, which is higher than they had pre-war. Electricity is being turned back on. The U.S. military and coalition forces are looking at getting the north-south railroad running.

So there is a lot of stuff going on. And behind them are DART teams, and we have had assessment teams in, as we have said. Jay Garner and his colleagues, including 27 of our colleagues from the State Department, several from Treasury and Commerce, et cetera, are ready to flow into Baghdad International as soon as the situation permits.

QUESTION: So what's important about General -- when he gets to Baghdad, what do you --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Oh, you did ask that. I'm sorry. I expect him immediately to start making visible signs -- we expect him. He doesn't work for me, but the administration expects that he'll almost immediately be a signal that we are providing goods and services to those areas which are lacking in it; that we begin to fall -- and this is coalition, it's not just U.S. -- on various ministries, and rapidly go out and round up those technocrats who work and get them into jobs.

They will be paid salaries initially, though I don't know what the level of their salary would be, and those are the things. General Garner has got an enormously difficult task to get all of these things up and running, free of, as I have suggested, the Baathist influence at the top, signals that these are being done by Iraqis with coalition advice -- and, by the way, the majority of the coalition civilian advice -- I think will be a very good sign for all Iraqis.

QUESTION: Just one more quick follow-up, following Mark's question. With UNMOVIC, isn't it important for the credibility of the (inaudible) research that you have some outside experts come in and actually --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I was under the impression that the hundreds of embedded journalists also qualified as outside experts.

QUESTION: But not as technical experts --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: No, not as technical.

QUESTION: -- that could verify the claims?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: You know, as well as I do, that these journalists, whatever their nationality, who have been with coalition forces have so bonded that they couldn't tell a story to each other, I don't think this is going to be -- I mean, they wouldn't mislead. They can't. They have bonded so closely. So I think the first is the outside experts are going to be the united eyes of the world as seen by reporters.

Second of all, we have got coalition partners who are involved in this. So if you are suggesting that -- maybe that having UNMOVIC, who, from our point of view, had a mixed record recently, as the lead, would somehow give it more credibility, I think that you may be mistaken. I think what gives it credibility is the transparent way in which we have gone about the search thus far, and will continue to go about it until embedded journalists tire of the -- tire of the grind.

QUESTION: When will that process -- I mean, in essence, that process is already underway.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Absolutely.

QUESTION: But will, as things get easier on the ground, will that increase? Will you step that effort up?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, of course, we believe you'll get access to certain records, and things of that nature, not unlike the access to records in Basra, tortures, and the crimes created or committed against humanity. And when we get access to scientists, unlike the access that UNMOVIC got with miners, when they got it, this will dramatically increase our ability to ferret out the devious hiding places of WMD.

QUESTION: Have you gotten to any -- access to any scientists since the war has begun?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I don't know the answer. I don't know.

QUESTION: Quick North Korea question. What are we to make of China in the Security Council blocking consideration? Is China being more helpful on North Korea now?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: China is being more helpful.

QUESTION: In what way?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: You asked the question. That is the answer that I can give. China is being more helpful.

QUESTION: Can I ask a quick one?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Please.

QUESTION: The A-team of terrorism --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Ah, Hezbollah.

QUESTION: -- do they have -- are they casting an eye toward Iraq and its Shiite population? And just where do things stand with those people?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I don't know what eye they are casting. There have been rumors from time to time that they are actually lending some -- trying to lend a hand to the Saddam Hussein government. I can't confirm it.

QUESTION: If you don't say it, it doesn't hurt.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: We don't play that. I'll be hung for my own words. I can't confirm that. But if the Shia population, the predominantly Shia population of Iraq, finds great favor in what the coalition has done, I would hope that Hezbollah would take the right lesson from this and eschew violence. But we'll see, time will tell.