Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i2FGcRI08893; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:38:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:38:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <EE81FC4A94703A46976D9DF51EF1018607B9DE9C@2kexmb.hq.corp.pbs.org> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Frances Keenan" <fkeenan@pbs.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10042] RE: adult ed ESL requirements X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 12032 Lines: 348 I think volunteer teaching or tutoring experience with adults should be a qualification. I do not think we should rely on academic qualifications or licensing when academic programs are so few and far between and licensing/certfication is still so uneven. Of course, training is important and should be provided to those who have qualifications. You can learn to teach ESL in a variety of ways! Fran -----Original Message----- From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Pecoraro, Diane Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 3:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10026] RE: adult ed ESL requirements This has been an interesting discussion about what requirements ABE teachers in school districts and community-based organizations( CBO's) should have. I will add another layer to the question: What would you out there recommend as qualifications for teachers who are not licensed and have no specific ESL academic training who want to teach? . We know that often unlicensed teachers may be successful in the classroom, but what kinds of experience will tell us that? Diane Pecoraro MN Department of Education 1500 Highway 36 West Roseville, MN 55113 651 582-8424 diane.pecoraro@state.mn.us Fax. 651 634-5154 -----Original Message----- From: ttweeton@comcast.net [mailto:ttweeton@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:31 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10023] RE: adult ed ESL requirements Yvonne says" I am a strong proponent of hiring the best candidates for the job and not being constrained by artificial measures such as irrelevant teaching certificates." Yvonne Lerew Yvonne I have to take issue with you on the subject of having or not having a teaching certificate. Know HOW to teach and WHAT to teach, with what method makes all the difference in helping students to learn effectively and well and NOT haphadzardly without good direction. I see this difference all the time with my colleagues . There simply is a difference between those who have been well trained and those who are still in the process of getting their certificates here in Florida. Having a natural talent to relate well to the students is a gift and it helps but just isn't the whole story when it comes to effective teaching. Tanya Tweeton ESOL and GED programs Fort Lauderdale, Florida > My program requires the same - a BA and relevant > cross-cultural/ESL/etc. > experience. We have some WONDERFUL teachers who we would not have been > able to hire had there been a requirement been a K-12 teacher > certificate. One has a BA in English and 4 years experience teaching in > Japan and China. One has a BA in English and History and volunteered both > with our program and other adult literacy programs prior to being > hired. Another is a burned-out nurse, volunteered with our program, > traveled to Bosnia, and is one of the best beginning level teachers I have > seen. Of course we do have a few teachers who are certified k-12 teachers, > however it is not the certification that makes them a strong teacher. > I am > a strong proponent of hiring the best candidates for the job and not > being > constrained by artificial measures such as irrelevant teaching certificates. > Yvonne Lerew > Education Program Coordinator > Lutheran Social Services of SD > Refugee and Immigration Programs > At 02:26 PM 3/6/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >My 2 cents. Our department requires a B.A., preferably in Education > >or > >related field, and much attention/preference given to > >teaching/multicultural/ESL/adult ed./volunteer/ etc/etc experience. > > > >Mona Curtis > >ESL Coordinator > >Treasure Valley Community College > >650 College Blvd. > >Ontario, OR 97914 > >www.tvcc.cc > >541-881-8822 x 316 > >fax 541-881-2747 > > >>> lalumineuse@yahoo.com 03/04/04 01:21 AM >>> > >CBO= Community based organisation. > > > >In NJ, at least last year when I lived there, all one > >needed was a teaching certification. In any subject. > >When we observed classes across NJ, not all teachers > >entered their profession (teaching adult ESOL) with > >any background in ESOL or teaching adults. > > > >I am glad to hear that things have changed. We will > >perhaps not see any more Kindergarten teachers > >speaking loudly, showing flashcards to 60 year olds. > > > >regards, > >Ujwala Samant > > > > > >--- Susan Ryan <susanefl@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > What are CBO's? > > > Susan > > > > > > > > > >From: bodman@ucc.edu > > > >Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > > <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9979] RE: adult ed ESL > > > requirements > > > >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:16:29 -0500 (EST) > > > > > > > >What are acceptable minimal qualifications for an > > > ABE/ESL teacher in a > > > >standard school district or community college-both > > > of which are usually > > > >part > > > >of a larger bureaucratic system? > > > > > > > >We (in NY and NJ) have waged a battle since the > > > late l970s to make > > > >certification a requirement for language teaching > > > (ESL included) and > > > >bilingual education. We now have both. The > > > essence of both programs is > > > >that there is a minimum amount of professional > > > knowledge, a minimum amount > > > >of subject matter knowledge, and a minimum > > > proficiency in the target > > > >language or languages that is required. After all, > > > the reasoning goes, one > > > >cannot be a math teacher simply because one is > > > sympathetic and kind as well > > > >as familiar with numbers in their everyday life. > > > In a similar manner, a > > > >native-speaking knowledge of English does not mean > > > that one knows how to > > > >organize and explain it or teach it. After these > > > minimums have been met, > > > >then employers can begin to assess all the other > > > myriad factors that are > > > >required in teaching, such as: classroom > > > management, use of appropriate > > > >methodologies, techniques, etc. > > > > > > > >At the college level, an M.A. in TESOL and (at > > > least one year) > > > >college-level > > > >teaching experience (as an adjunct)is now almost > > > always required. > > > >Full-time > > > >jobs are so scarce in this area that most openings > > > are filled by people > > > >with > > > >doctorates and many years of experience, > > > publications, etc. Bilingual > > > >college positions usually require native or > > > near-native proficiency in two > > > >or more languages and an M.A. in the subject to be > > > taught. Recently, in an > > > >effort to "balance" faculties, almost no jobs are > > > being filled unless the > > > >candidate has all the above and is either a native > > > speaker of Haitian > > > >Creole, South or Latin American Spanish, or > > > African-American. Anglo males > > > >have a particularly difficult, if not impossible, > > > time finding work in > > > >community colleges. > > > > > > > >And what about staff in CBO's ? What should be the > > > minimum qualifications > > > >for these teachers? > > > > > > > >In NY and NJ, most CBOs, if they are LEAs, must > > > hire first from within the > > > >school system. Any presently-employed teacher has > > > preference over a more > > > >highly qualified "outsider." In other CBOs, the > > > qualification is usually > > > >that they be a native speaker of English or that > > > they have a college degree > > > >from another country. No further training is > > > required. Students vote with > > > >their feet and the director uses this as a basis > > > for rehiring. > > > > > > > >Should qualifications for all teachers be the same > > > regardless of setting, > > > >or > > > >should/must the differences in mission and > > > organization be taken into > > > >account? > > > > > > > >It would be a wonderful goal to set. Yes. > > > However, given the politics and > > > >the reality of sometimes having to hire whomever > > > you can get, no. > > > > > > > >Jean Bodman > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Pecoraro, Diane > > > [mailto:Diane.Pecoraro@state.mn.us] > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:42 PM > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9978] RE: adult ed ESL > > > requirements > > > > > > > > > > > >As the percentage of ESL learners in ABE programs > > > grows, and with the > > > >addition of community-based organizations(CBO's) as > > > service providers, the > > > >issue of qualifications is valid and raises > > > questions. I will pose a few > > > >for > > > >discussion. > > > > > > > >What are acceptable minimal qualifications for an > > > ABE/ESL teacher in a > > > >standard school district or community college-both > > > of which are usually > > > >part > > > >of a larger bureaucratic system? > > > > > > > >And what about staff in CBO's ? What should be the > > > minimum qualifications > > > >for these teachers? > > > > > > > >Should qualifications for all teachers be the same > > > regardless of setting, > > > >or > > > >should/must the differences in mission and > > > organization be taken into > > > >account? > > > > > > > >This should stoke a few comments. I hope so! > > > > > > > >Diane Pecoraro > > > >MN Department of Education > > > >1500 Highway 36 West > > > >Roseville, MN 55113 > > > >651 582-8424 > > > >diane.pecoraro@state.mn.us > > > >Fax. 651 634-5154 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >From: Betsy Kubota [mailto:bkubota@comcast.net] > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:59 AM > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9974] RE: adult ed ESL > > > requirements > > > > > > > >If you go to Common Qualifications for ESOL > > > Teachers at > > > > > >http://www.tesol.org/careers/counsel/qualifications.html > > > >you will find the information the "other" Ms. > > > Kubota was refering to. > > > >There are some states that have mandated standards > > > for Adult ESL teachers > > > >but most still do not have any set requirements so > > > it is up to the > > > >individual program. > > > > > > > >Betsy Kubota > > > >Harper College > > > >Palatine, IL > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov > > > [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Frances > > > >Keenan > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:42 AM > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9972] adult ed ESL requirements > > > > > > > > > > > >Unless I missed it, I do not see anything on the > > > TESOL site about > > > >requirements for adult education ESL teaching. I > > > don't believe such a > > > >list is maintained at the national level. > > > > > > > >It would be a great resource for the field if it > > > were developed! > > > > > > > >Fran > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] > > > On Behalf Of carol E. > > > >Kubota > > > >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:13 PM > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list > > > >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9969] Re: question on intensity > > > of instruction and > > > > > > > > > > > > >=== message truncated === > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > >http://search.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________ Be more informed. Be more connected. Be more PBS. 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