Interview With Dainik Jagran

QUESTION: Sir, I shall start with SAARC. What are your interests in SAARC as an observer state and what do you think? Why has SAARC failed to achieve the desired goals since its inception 22 years ago?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: You are condemning 22 years of history? I think, first of all we are thrilled to be part of this. We're thrilled to be here. We certainly believe in the potential of regional organizations. We believe in the potential of free trade in this region. You have seen numbers from the World Bank that show that there really is a very low rate of intra-regional trade, and that the opportunities to increase that would really bring a lot of benefit to the people of the region. In other areas like that where SAARC could really be helpful for the people of the region, things like education, disaster systems, work against terrorism, poverty alleviation, many of these things. So, I think we are interested in looking for how we can contribute to the goals of the organization.

SAARC has had an interesting history. It's been a viable regional organization for a long time. It has provided a venue for countries and leaders to get together -- that's always important and that remains important -- and the things it can do. And so we are trying to contribute to the things it can do.

QUESTION: On the part of terrorism, as far as terrorism is concerned, you must have heard that all of the leaders are concerned about terrorism. But this organization couldn't achieve the desired things on the front of terrorism. So, what is the U.S. looking for to play a pivotal role or some role in curbing this menace through this organization?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: I don't think anybody expects SAARC or any regional organization to solve the problem of terrorism. It can provide a venue for some of the coordination and discussion between leaders. In many cases, it is what the leaders do informally, it is what they are doing today. They are off meeting with each other. That is the best way to engender the cooperation against terrorism. But cooperation against terrorism needs to be a very thorough thing. It has a lot of detail to it, a lot of careful work. And so we work individually with each of the countries of the region. We encourage each of the countries of the region to work with the others. And India and Pakistan just recently set up this mechanism to deal with terrorism. So, that kind of cooperation with us and with each other is probably where you are going to see the most concrete effort. But I would not minimize the value of having leaders get together to talk about common concerns, talk about ways they might work together, even if the work goes on [inaudible].

QUESTION: Coming back to this Indo-U.S. nuke deal, what is the time frame? What is the deadline for the Bush Administration for closing this chapter?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Well, it is not so much a deadline as it is a desire to make rapid progress. We would like to see this done quickly and expeditiously. We have certain requirements to get done. Then we have to go to go back to our Congress. Our Congress needs...has time to consider it. So, if we are going to see this happen in the next year or two, we need to get moving. We need to get moving as soon as we can. And so, we have tried to push forward. We've tried to push forward with the bilateral negotiations. We've looked at the schedule, India's discussions with the International Atomic Energy Agency, its schedule with Nuclear Suppliers Group, and we want to move all these things forward as quickly as we can.

QUESTION: But since the U.S. is also proceeding towards the forthcoming elections and since by 2009, India will also be in elections, do you think you would be able to strike this deal in the regime of President Bush?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Well, it's certainly what we would like to do. President Bush started this discussion. He and the Prime Minister agreed on the basic framework of this agreement that we have to negotiate between the United States and India. We think we have been forthcoming in terms of doing of what we said we would do, in terms of doing what the President and Prime Minister agreed upon. And the ball is really now in the Indian court to come back and then help us in moving forward in that fashion. So, I think it should be a common goal to do this in the Bush Administration. This is something that President Bush has been doing and, obviously, the sooner we get it done, the sooner we can have a reality to this: the facts on the ground, nuclear trade and commerce, and development of India's nuclear industry.

QUESTION: But, do you think that India is prepared enough to take the obligations of the IAEA inspection in the coming few months?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Well, India has done a lot of preparations, a lot of work on this. This is not something brand new. We have been discussing this now for coming on two years, when the Prime Minister and President Bush first reached agreement in July two years ago. So, I think India has done its homework, and we need to sit down and resolve these issues of importance with the agreements that have been reached. We have done a tremendous amount of negotiating already in terms of the agreements the President and Prime Minister reached. We need to take those agreements the way they were agreed and put them into a bilateral...in a legal document.

QUESTION: It means you are satisfied with the India's preparation for the IAEA inspections, you consider India prepared?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: India and the IAEA is a negotiation we are not a party to. But, I think India has done an enormous amount of preparatory work. But just like our bilateral agreement, we have to sit down and do it. And it's time to do that.

QUESTION: Coming to the subject of South Asia, President Hamid Karzai has alleged that Pakistan is funding and patronizing Taliban and terrorist organizations. Since your forces are also there in Afghanistan, how much you agree with allegations of President Karzai?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: We all know that the Taliban operate on both sides of the border. Taliban, Al-Qaida, have been on the Afghan side and on Pakistani side, and we all have to work together against them. There are efforts that we undertake on the Afghan side in direct cooperation with the Afghan government. And there efforts the Pakistani government undertakes on its side of the border. We are trying to work with both sides and support those efforts. In fact, I think, if you look at what has been happening in recent months, you will see Pakistanis have moved against the Taliban and Al-Qaida. There is more for all of us to do on both sides of border. And we have to cooperate together. We are only going to get to the end of this by really squeezing the Taliban from both sides.

Now, having said that, I think there is pressure on the Taliban from both sides. They failed last year, they failed to achieve any, you know, they were trying to take towns and cities and territories. They failed to do that. The government has expanded. There are more army, more police, more government, more roads, more aid projects on the Afghan side and Taliban is under pressure from the Pakistani side and from the Afghan side.

QUESTION: There is a deficit of trust between the Pakistani Administration and the Afghanistan Administration. So how do we build it? How is the cooperation?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Well, there is already pretty regular cooperation. In fact, they have been able to meet with us in the military tripartite groups. They have been able to have individual meetings at various levels with different people, including President Karzai and President Musharraf. And I think they have a desire to work on this together. We always try to make that easier.

QUESTION: But you don't see anything straight on the validity of the allegations of Mr. Karzai?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: There are a lot of different allegations out there. The point is both sides need to take action and both sides should judge each other by their actions. I think Pakistan is taking action, and we need to recognize that, even as we work with them and work with the Afghans on how we can all beat this problem.

QUESTION: I think in Islamabad you have promised a fund of 750 million dollars for the North West Frontier Province.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Over 5 years.

QUESTION: Are you still committed to that thing?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Sure, I just announced that a couple of [weeks] ago. I don't have a good read on the how the Baujursituation is. There, it looks less than an agreement, more like a decision by the local leaders to kick out the foreign terrorist elements, to say we don't want these people around. That is good. It is a decision everybody needs to make and everybody needs to act on. We will see if it actually produces action. Obviously the only thing that matters is whether those people are kicked out or not.

I think you have to look at this in two ways: one is the long-term problem in the North West Frontier, of the border areas of Pakistan, where they need economic development, they need education, roads, health. I have been up there. I have talked to tribal leaders. You ask them: what do they want? They want access to hospitals. They want their kids to go to schools. And so, by giving our support, we are looking to promote economic development of that region, integration of that region to the economy. But that alone won't solve the problem. You can't just say that in the long term that will help. In the short term people need to act, and that's the kind of action that the Pakistan government is taking and needs to take so that we can help them in the long term. We can stabilize the area with economic development and other measures.

QUESTION: Mr. Boucher, in the imbroglio between the Judiciary and President Musharraf in Pakistan, how do you think it is going to happen, the process of democracy established in Pakistan?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: I think we will have to see. There's a lot of political debate and discussion. I suppose that's going to happen this year because we do expect to see elections towards the end of the year. President Musharraf has made that part of his program, and we have supported that. We have made very clear that we want to see open, free and fair elections in Pakistan. We have supported civil society efforts, we have supported the election commission and its efforts to prepare for an election, and I think that is where the political process will have to lead. Everybody will have to say their piece and leave the voters to decide.

QUESTION: Does the Bush Administration appreciate what has happened in Pakistan?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: We are watching it very carefully, this whole imbroglio, as you said. I don't know how you're going to say that in Hindi, but you will figure it out. We are watching carefully. Any matter involving allegations against the Judiciary is a very sensitive one and needs to be handled very carefully. We have expressed some concern about the reactions and for the political turmoil it has caused in Pakistan. But I think, you know, this needs to be handled very carefully according to a fair judicial process. We will see. We'll watch it as it goes forward.

QUESTION: Are you happy with the India-Iran pipeline?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: I think we have a lot of questions about it. I think, first of all, we have a lot of problems with Iran's behavior, and Iran is doing things that are not helpful in this part of the world -- their involvement in violence in Iraq and the Middle East or their development of nuclear capabilities. I think countries in this region have made it very clear that they do not want to see Iran develop a nuclear weapon, and nobody should contribute to that in any way.

As far as this pipeline deal, it is still not clear to me whether it's commercially viable or whether it is a useful adjunct to energy supplies. Certainly there are a lot of other energy supplies countries in the region, including India and Pakistan, can develop and we are working with them in developing these things. We are working on the nuclear side in India and a variety of ways with Pakistan. There are opportunities to bring electricity down from the North from Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. So there are a lot of energy opportunities out there, and I think we've raised questions. We doubt that it is a good idea to make one's supply dependent on Iran. I don't think we see them as a reliable supplier.

QUESTION: Since India and Afghanistan are both in favor of the transit routes linking South Asia to Central Asia and the U.S. is also in favor of this proposition. But Pakistan of course hates the idea.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Well, that's not completely true. Pakistan has been one of the strongest supporters of the possibilities of opening up Central Asia --having interaction between Central Asia and South Asia through Afghanistan. It has worked a lot on things like electricity corridors or the road links that can be set up, and the trade corridors that can be set up. We want that to be as broad and expansive as possible and certainly there are opportunities there that India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and countries of Central Asia need to address directly and a lot of that does involve trade policy, and trade issues, and transit issues. But I think those issues do need to be addressed. Pakistan understands that. But we will have to see how they can be addressed.

QUESTION: Since Pakistan has some reservations about this transit project.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Which transit project?

QUESTION: This India, Afghanistan and Pakistan. See, there is a trade and transit route

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: Yes. There are issues involved in transit trade across Pakistan. And I think you heard various people at the SAARC opening session allude to them. Nobody did it directly, but we all know there are issues that need to be addressed there. These issues need to be addressed, and that's all I can tell you at this point. Pakistan wants to play an important role as a trading partner, an outlet for Central Asia, and wants to play that role on more than an individual basis -- on a regional basis. That has implications, and you need to think through those implications, work on the issues and work on all the trade and transit problems. Pakistan is not the only place those exist. They are throughout the region.

If you look at what it takes to get goods from Kazakhstan to Karachi or to Delhi, there are enormous numbers of customs, and trucking, and trans-shipment, and health and other requirements -- not to mention delays, bureaucracies and corruption -- that make it hard to move things. It is not just roads. Prime Minister Singh alluded to this, mentioned this in his speech at SAARC. And so we need also to work though these things and see how many we can resolve. Okay?

QUESTION: On Sri Lanka, since you have promised to extend support to Sri Lanka's fight against terrorism, what are the logistics in this packet in light of the recent air attacks by LTTE?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY BOUCHER: We are going to have to talk to the Sri Lankans about this. I just met with President Rajapaksa. I met with the Foreign Minister yesterday. I told him we were very concerned about the air attacks. I told him that we thought this is a dangerous new development and that we will be in touch with them. We have already had some conversations with their Embassy about figuring out how they can deal with the problem. I think it is also -- you have to remember that there was a bus bombing the other day that killed 16 or 20 civilians. The Tamil Tigers are a terrorist group and need to be seen as one and need to be dealt with. But the Tamil community needs to have an opportunity in Sri Lanka to live in peace, respect for human rights, with an opportunity to play a role politically, and there needs to eventually a negotiation to settle these issues. So, the Tigers need to stop bombing buses, stop bombing airfields, and start negotiating and seek a political solution to their problems.

QUESTION: Thank you.