Roundtable Interview with Print Journalists

(10:00 a.m. EST)

SECRETARY RICE: All right. It looks like we've got quite a crowd, so maybe I won't try to make any remarks. We'll just start around the table. How's that?

MODERATOR: And we're on the record.

SECRETARY RICE: Okay. Robin.

QUESTION: Do you know if the Saudis are coming?

SECRETARY RICE: (Laughter.) Invitations just went out last night. Look, states will respond all in their own time. I do believe that the meeting meets anyone's definition of substantive and serious. It obviously is going to launch now the Palestinians and the Israelis on their bilateral track to negotiate the establishment of two states -- well, the establishment of a Palestinian state making two states, living side by side. It's going to launch negotiations that will be about all outstanding issues and that's been very clear in what the Prime Minister has said. It will obviously reiterate the importance of carrying through on roadmap obligations and that's also a part of the meeting. And I think it will have an opportunity -- we'll also have an opportunity to give some support to the kind of capability building measures that -- capacity building measures that Tony Blair has been launching even though, of course, the principle conference for that will be a donor conference later on in Paris. So there is a lot to do at this meeting and I therefore hope that, you know, all key participants will come.

QUESTION: Can I ask you a couple of questions? First of all, how active do you plan to be in intervening if there is a deadlock at some point? And what role specifically will you play and what role do you think the President might play? And secondly, have you given any thought to the potential consequences if this process should fail, atrophy, you know, lose its momentum and the potential for a third intifada?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I've certainly given a lot of thought to the consequences of inaction. And that's why I think it's extremely important now that this process support a serious bilateral negotiation that's going to be ongoing and continuous, that is going to try to get to the resolution of the issues so that they can -- so the Palestinians can establish their state. I said at one point and I've said several times since that failure isn't really an option here and it's within everyone's power to make this succeed. It's going to be hard work. There is a good reason that people have not been able to achieve a two-state solution in the past. And we have some assets that were not there before, particularly in the nature of the leadership on the Palestinian side. But there are also a lot of difficulties. But everybody understands the importance of making this work. And I think that the -- you really only have two choices. It's rather binary. You can act or not act. And I think at this point the dangers of inaction are much greater than the dangers of acting.

QUESTION: And the other question, about the role you will play intervening, if there's deadlock --

SECRETARY RICE: Now, at this meeting, this is a launch to negotiations.

QUESTION: Right.

SECRETARY RICE: You mean past Annapolis.

QUESTION: Well, in this process.

SECRETARY RICE: In the process. Well, Robin, let me just review that I don't think anybody thought we would be at this point launching negotiations for the first time in almost seven years between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Now, a lot of that has been that the parties themselves have gotten to that point over the last several months. But I don't think that anybody would also say it would not have been without the persistent attention and activity of the United States, both myself and the President. And so you can be certain that we're going to continue to play that very active role in helping the parties get to a good outcome. I think from my point of view, the major shift that has taken place here is that after several years of the first phase of the roadmap being a block to moving to negotiations on the establishment of a state, we were finally able to move these in parallel instead so that people will be working on their first phase roadmap obligations at the same time that they're negotiating for the two-state solution and that also didn't happen without American help.

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, there's been --

SECRETARY RICE: I'll do what I need to do, Robin.

QUESTION: There's been -- there seems to have been a lot of heckling from the sidelines in the lead-up to Annapolis from people who've -- who were involved in Oslo, Madrid and other peace conferences. You know, there's -- there definitely seems to be a lot of stuff coming from people who say this conference hasn't been prepared properly, that you're not doing it the way other people have done it, the way other negotiators have done it, the way your predecessors have done it. Do you think that your -- the fact that you're not -- I'm trying to -- I know where I'm trying to go with this, but I'm kind of having trouble getting it out. (Laughter.) Do you think that -- I mean, you talked a little bit in Jerusalem about how you wanted to do this your way and other peace efforts have failed. Do you think the fact that you're not steeped in the past history of negotiations and attempts to do this allows you to bring sort of a freshness to this? I mean, how do you --

SECRETARY RICE: I'm plenty steeped in the past history of negotiations. And I'm plenty steeped in some of the things that have worked and some of the things that haven't. And let's not talk about what level of preparation was there for other efforts and efforts that didn't succeed.

But we've very carefully brought the parties to this place where they were not just -- well, six weeks ago, let alone when I took that trip out in February where nobody -- when people would barely talk to each other, let alone talk about permanent status issues. And I think this time we've taken great care to spend a lot of time on the regional side with Arab states -- not just informing, but consulting and having them do the diplomacy as well with the parties.

And you might have noticed that yesterday Prime Minister Olmert, yes, he was on the phone with me and, yes, this morning he was on the phone with the President, but he was in Egypt with Mubarak, which says something about the way that the Arabs are engaged in this particular process. And I think one of the real lessons of the past is that you need to have the Arabs involved early and often in order to support what will be very difficult decisions by any Palestinian leader. And in order to give confidence to the Israelis that when there is the Palestinian state, this conflict really -- a Palestinian state, and of course, you know, no one is denying that there has to be progress on the other tracks, too. I mean, ultimately, the other tracks have to be resolved. But that at some point, this conflict's really going to end and it's not going to just end between Israelis and Palestinians. It's going to end between Israelis and Arabs. And so that has been a very big part of this effort this time.

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, one of the chief notes of skepticism one hears about whether this would work in the end, meaning statehood, is that the Israelis continue to build settlements, facts on the ground in the West Bank. The problem of withdrawal is vastly greater than it was in Gaza, you know, at least ten times the size in terms of settlers, much more political problem. The E1 road that effectively bisects the West Bank is practically operational. And you know, one hears that Olmert is either going to be politically too weak or really unwilling in the end to force the kind of withdrawal that will effectively make a state possible. Could you address that? Have you, you know, heard indications that he's really willing to take the kind of decision -- and can -- necessary to make that happen?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I thought at the Saban Forum and in his comments subsequently he has made very clear that he intends to lead Israel on a path that was began by several predecessors but really frankly began by Ariel Sharon, which is to decide that the establishment of a viable Palestinian state is in Israel's interest. And I think the Israelis are plenty capable and plenty knowledgeable to know that that's going to require some very hard choices.

Now, the decision to announce that Israel would not confiscate any other land or -- confiscate or seize any other land -- and that they weren't going to build any new settlements, I think is an important statement. We in the United States will have the obligation under a role that I -- we're apparently going to be asked to play, which is to judge roadmap implementation of making certain that both parties live with and fulfill the obligations that they've undertaken.

And we've also been very clear that in the past and now that the United States does not expect anyone to take steps that prejudice final status negotiations. Now, when -- if we are fortunate and they negotiate the borders of a state, then I assume that the Israeli Government will go to all lengths to then, as the roadmap has been implemented, to, in fact, carry out that implementation.

QUESTION: If I could just follow up on that because I mean there is a perception that for, you know, six years or more, this Administration has not been willing to put the kind of pressure on the Israelis that would be required really to practically impose this on them. And is that -- is there a qualitative change in the kind of pressure you're willing to put on the Israeli side on these issues?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, again, first of all, I don't think the United States can impose a solution. I think that's a red herring. I do think that the United States can play a very active role in getting the parties to a solution that will lead to finally resolving this conflict. Now, I just want to remind that for all the talk of what has been done in the past to pressure the Israelis to be, you know, active, to prepare and so forth, it hasn't gotten done. So now we are looking at a new effort, I think based on some new fundamentals which are very important. And I would cite among those fundamentals that you have an Israeli and a Palestinian leader who have spent some time now coming to understand where the other stands on the core issues.

Secondly, you do have a different leadership in the Palestinian territories than you had at the time of Yasser Arafat in Camp David. I know that there are people who talk about whether Abu Mazen has the ability to do this and the ability to do that. Well, in the final analysis, Arafat wouldn't do it.

And there is also for the first time a true distinction between this Palestinian leadership and those who propose terror and violence as a way to achieve their aspirations. It shouldn't be any secret to anyone that part of the problem was that until this democratically elected leadership, there were -- it was a leadership that had one foot in terrorism and one foot in politics. And that's changed.

I think you also have had a shift because the greater breadth of the political consensus in Israel that a two-state solution is in Israel's interest really is something that I do attribute to Sharon's own change in that regard. Those are very important shifts. So there are different circumstances here.

And finally, the regional circumstances and the rise of extremism I do think have both given to the regional players, to the Arab states, a different perspective on the Arab-Israeli conflict as they look at the rise of extremism in the region and the efforts of both extremist groups and state sponsors, like Iran, to use this conflict to fuel extremism.

QUESTION: You mentioned implementation of the roadmap and that you will be asked to judge. Can you tell us how exactly that's going to work? Are you the only ones who will be the judge? Is there -- is the Quartet involved in that?

SECRETARY RICE: We're still involved in discussing this, so I don't want to get ahead of the diplomacy. But the United States has been asked in the past to play a central role in this. And I think by the time we get to Annapolis, this piece of it'll be clearer.

QUESTION: You also mentioned settlements and that -- the statement by the Prime Minister that there'll be no new settlements. But really the issue --

SECRETARY RICE: And no confiscation of land.

QUESTION: Right. But you know, the issue here that the Palestinians and the Arabs have been raising is natural growth within existing settlements. And you haven't yet made that statement that everybody expects to say that that is not -- either U.S. policy is not to allow that to happen. You've been always sort of evasive on that point.

SECRETARY RICE: This is an important step. There are roadmap obligations that we will be looking at and observing and, in fact, telling the parties what we think about their implementation of their obligations. And as I said, one of the issues is not to judge -- prejudge, do anything that prejudges -- the final status.

But let me just remind you why the no confiscation of land is important. When we were last in Israel, maybe it was one time before, there was the question of a confiscation order to build a road. So I remember all the uproar about the confiscation order to build the road. Now, you can't now come back and say that it doesn't matter that the Israelis have said they won't confiscate land. Of course it matters. So that's one of the keys here. We have to be very clear that there's been an important step forward here and we'll be watching to see how it's implemented.

QUESTION: Madame Secretary.

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: I wanted to ask a bit about the mosques because you were talking about the changed circumstances now and that's one that you didn't mention. But people -- some people think there's two ways to look at this process. One is that this is the implementation of -- you know, we're working to solve the Palestinian issue. And another is that we're looking to build up a bulwark against extremism in that entire region. And they say if you're looking to build up a bulwark against extremism, then it makes sense to completely exclude Hamas and to look at it as a black-and-white issue. But if you're trying to address the Palestinian question itself, at some point you're going to have to have a strategy towards Hamas. And so far, our strategy hasn't worked.

And so I guess I'm wondering whether -- is there a middle ground between wishing Hamas away and engaging them? Is there something -- what's --

SECRETARY RICE: Nobody is wishing Hamas away. It's just a matter that -- I would say that the Palestinians have a view -- this Palestinian leadership -- about Hamas. And their view is that Hamas created a coup in Gaza and that they need to return to legitimate Palestinian institutions. And why the United States or the Quartet or others would have a different view concerning a terrorist organization, I don't understand.

And let me just say something about, you know, it hasn't worked against Hamas. Hamas is pretty isolated. They, unfortunately for the people in the Gaza, have demonstrated almost on a daily basis what they're really like. And I don't think that that has, frankly, endeared them to the Palestinian population.

Now, it is incumbent on all responsible states, and I include in that most of the Arab states, to show that there is an alternative to the way that Hamas would organize Palestinian society and the violence that they would use to try and create statehood, and that is part of what this is about. But we certainly hope that if there is an agreement on the Palestinian state that that will provide a unifying vision for all Palestinians who are ready to live in that state in peace and live next to an Israeli democratic state. And we'll see who decides to join that consensus on behalf of the Palestinian people. But it's not for us to have a different policy toward Hamas, which is after all a terrorist organization, than the legitimately elected government of Palestine.

QUESTION: But can you really move forward with an agreement and a negotiation that doesn't include Gaza?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, even -- first of all, even Hamas agrees that Abu Mazen is the negotiating authority for all Palestinians under his hat as Chairman of the PLO. They don't challenge that.

QUESTION: Still to this day?

SECRETARY RICE: They do not challenge that. They don't challenge that he is the negotiating authority for the PLO.

Now, Gaza is a part of the Palestinian territories and it needs to be part of the Palestinian state. But this is not the first time that a legitimate authority did not yet control all of its territory. It's not unknown in international politics, not unknown in human history. But the existence of an actual Palestinian state, an actual negotiated Palestinian state with the resolution of all the issues, I think will give considerable strength to those political elements in the Palestinian -- among Palestinians who wish to declare an end to the conflict. And we'll then see who joins and who doesn't.

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, the President is going to speak twice that I know of next week. Is this a sign that he's going to --

SECRETARY RICE: No, he's going to speak once and I think greet people once.

QUESTION: Once. Greet people once. Okay. Is this a sign that he's going to be more involved henceforth in this? As you know, there's a lot of skepticism in the region about his level of engagement. A lot of people in the Mideast believe that you're committed to this but have more doubts that he is deeply committed to this.

SECRETARY RICE: Well, all that I can tell you is that I wouldn't be doing it if he weren't deeply committed to it. I'm his Secretary of State. I'm the Secretary of State of the United States. But the President of the United States is the one who ultimately has set this commitment, and he has done everything that he and I determined that he needs to do to push this process forward. And I am quite certain that as it moves forward he will do what it takes to try to get this concluded.

I don't -- I think that there's a false -- it's simply false to believe that you can judge in advance what precisely it is going to take on any given day to get this done. But I do know that the President is committed to doing what it takes to get it done.

QUESTION: Syria. Can you tell us, first of all, if -- at what level you expect them to be represented? Have you heard from them? And second, is it possible that the process could expand down the road, as many Arabs have suggested, to the third session, fifth session, whatever, to begin talking about Syria's interests in the peace process?

SECRETARY RICE: When I met with the Arab League committee and the Quartet back in New York, everybody was in agreement that this meeting is about the Palestinian-Israeli track, because that is the one that appears to be maturing to the place that you believe that there's some sense that they might be able to move to an agreement. And that's what this meeting is about.

But that by no means tries to ignore or set aside the fact that a comprehensive peace will require resolution of the other tracks. And if those tracks appear to show maturity, then people ought to feel free to move on them. Now, in this meeting, we're also not going to hide the need for a comprehensive peace. The meeting is about the Palestinian-Israeli track. But if people want to address other tracks or talk about them, they're certainly not going to be ruled out of order to do so.

And you know, we'll see whether at some point in time it's possible to move on other tracks as well. But there's a good reason for holding this meeting about the Palestinian-Israeli track, and everybody seemed to agree that that was right when we met with the Arab League committee. But it doesn't -- it certainly doesn't mean that people don't understand the importance of other tracks.

QUESTION: And what about who you expect to attend?

SECRETARY RICE: We'll see. You know, we haven't --

QUESTION: This is Wednesday. The conference is Monday and Tuesday. When do you expect to hear?

SECRETARY RICE: Robin, I don't think people are going to tell us that they can't make their way to Annapolis if they choose to come, so we'll hear from people when we hear from them.

QUESTION: Can we put in a standing request to hear when you've heard from the main players, such as the Syrians and the Saudis?

MR. MCCORMACK: What we have said is we will -- we'll -- we will allow people to announce their decision on their own time. We will keep, obviously, a tally of these things, and if we can --

SECRETARY RICE: Look, I'm not going to go out and say, you know, here's the list. I think people will announce, and I'm sure you have the capacity to keep tabs.

QUESTION: Can you tell us a little bit about the conversation Bush had with the Saudi King?

SECRETARY RICE: It was a -- just a conversation about the importance of moving forward on Palestinian-Israeli issues. I -- you know, that's -- I'm not going to read out the President's phone calls, but that's what they talked about.

QUESTION: Did the king make a commitment at that juncture to participate?

SECRETARY RICE: Robin, I said I'm not going to read out the President's --

QUESTION: You don't have to tell me the nitty-gritty. I'm just asking you a basic question. Is that -- was that the turning point for the Saudi agreement to participate?

SECRETARY RICE: Robin, I said I'm not going to read out the President's phone calls.

QUESTION: At what point was there a turning point in the Saudis deciding to come?

SECRETARY RICE: Robin, let's let people make their own announcements. I think that's only fair. I would expect, by the way, if we were invited to something, that people would let the United States make the announcement. So I'm going to follow that protocol with other people as well.

QUESTION: Are you confident the Saudis will come?

SECRETARY RICE: Robin --

MR. MCCORMACK: One more question. Warren.

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: I hate to ask this, but given (inaudible) I have to. Do you have some sort of plan in place when the first terrorist attack happens after Annapolis? Because we -- everybody in this room knows it's going to happen, and in the past that's always derailed the process. People like Rabin were willing to keep negotiating.

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I don't doubt that there may be those who try to disrupt progress and peaceful resolution. There are always those parties. And not just in this conflict, but you see it every time there's some step forward on many of the conflicts in the Middle East these days. So no, I don't doubt that there may be somebody who would try to do that.

I do think that it will be very important for the parties to recognize that any such effort would be aimed at both of them; in other words, that -- and this is one very big advantage to the unequivocal rejection of violence and terrorism that characterizes this Palestinian leadership. I think one of the problems of the past was that there was enough association of the Palestinian leadership with terror that one could never make the argument that, in fact, those terrorist attacks were not either countenanced by or directed by or at least acquiesced in by the Palestinian leadership. I don't think anybody would think that this time of Abu Mazen and Salam Fayyad.

Now, that doesn't mean that the Palestinians don't have an obligation to do everything that they can to prevent any terrorist attacks. They do. And that's why we're trying to help them with security capacity. That's why we think that the work that Salam Fayyad is doing in Nablus, for instance, is very important. They have an obligation to fight terror. They have an obligation to dismantle terrorist infrastructure. They have an obligation to try to disrupt terrorist plots. But I do think that this is a leadership that is on the right side of this issue.

Okay?

MR. MCCORMACK: Thanks, guys.

SECRETARY RICE: All right. Thanks, everybody.