Interview With Kim Ghattas of BBCSecretary Condoleezza Rice
Brussels, Belgium
August 19, 2008QUESTION: Madame Secretary, thank you very much for talking to the BBC. I know we’ve got not too much time, so I’ll start with questions, if that’s okay.
SECRETARY RICE: All right. Sure.
QUESTION: So the NATO meeting in Brussels today came out with a statement that was very strong in its support for Georgia and very strong in its rhetoric against Russia. But despite NATO saying this is not business as usual anymore with Russia, no concrete action is really being taken against Russia. Are you frustrated with your European allies?
SECRETARY RICE: No. In fact, we have sought exactly this outcome, because the strongest statement that you can make to Russia right now is: You have used your military power against a small neighboring state; you have demonstrated that you can bomb civilian ports, that you can terrorize civilian populations; you have demonstrated that you can occupy a railway or a strategic highway; you have demonstrated – we have demonstrated that you will not be able to undermine democracy and the Georgian state. And so what strategic objective have you achieved? That is really the strongest message that could be sent to Russia right now.
Now it is also the case that we have sent a message to Russia that NATO will not permit a new line to develop in Europe between those states that are a part of the transatlantic structures and those states that still aspire. And that’s why the creation of the NATO-Georgia Commission is important, why it’s important that the Ukraine-NATO Commission will meet next week and so forth.
QUESTION: But do you understand Russia’s concerns about its own backyard and those pro-Western governments that are there and your alliance with them? I mean, surely, the U.S. would be concerned if suddenly Russia announced that it was going to revamp the Cuban military.
SECRETARY RICE: Well, we would certainly not be concerned if Russia wanted to have good relations with democratic states in Latin America. In fact, we have encouraged and have looked favorably on Russian good relations with the democracies of Latin America.
What does Russia have to fear from a small democracy on their border? A state that, yes, is friendly to the West, but we’ve always encouraged to be friendly to Russia as well. It’s old Cold War thinking that if you are friendly to the United States, you have to be anti-Russian. It’s simply not the case. In fact, the United States has done nothing but reach out to Russia with offers of political and economic cooperation. We’ve supported WTO membership for Russia. We’ve supported OECD membership for Russia. We have supported defense cooperation with Russia. In fact, the Europe whole, free and at peace should include Russia. It is Russian behavior that is now isolating Russia from that promising future.
QUESTION: Because you have indeed said that Russia can’t have it both ways; it can’t be part of the international community and invade its neighbor. Maybe it has chosen a way and it’s the Georgia way rather than the WTO way.
SECRETARY RICE: Well, it would be unfortunate if Russia has made the strategic choice that would push it back to a not very fruitful past where it was isolated from international structures that really are the basis for progress in the modern world.
But I would only cite President Medvedev’s own speech just a few weeks ago in which he talked about a relationship with Europe and with the rest of the world that was a modern relationship, one in which Russia’s technology and science and culture – all of which by the way, are very strong – would be the basis of Russia’s engagement with the world. It’s really unfortunate that just a few weeks after that speech, we have the specter of Russian forces doing what Soviet forces did, but this time doing it with a strong response from the international community that says: You will not succeed in overthrowing a democratically elected government; you will not succeed in destroying the Georgian state.
I just spoke with European Union colleagues. We are all looking to reconstruct – help the Georgians reconstruct their infrastructure to make certain that their economy and the financial side of their economy is supported. So, Georgian infrastructure will be rebuilt. Russia’s reputation, that’s another matter.
QUESTION: But despite all the diplomatic pressure and the choice that Russia has, as you say, there is still no full withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgia. What would it take and how long is the West prepared to wait?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, that’s another matter, which is quite apart from the terrible things that are being done to Georgia. It’s actually a terrible thing that the Russian President could three times say that his forces are going to withdraw, and they don’t. One wonders about the word of the Russian President. These are guarantees that he gave to the European presidency as a part of a signed ceasefire agreement. And yet, Russian forces are not withdrawing. They should have withdrawn immediately.
QUESTION: So what can you do about this?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, we will continue to bring to the attention of the international community that Russia’s president has not kept his word. We will also continue to assess, as NATO has today, what effect these ongoing circumstances, as well as what has already transpired – what effect that will have on the nature of the relationships going forward.
QUESTION: From Brussels, you’re traveling to Poland, to Warsaw, to sign an agreement on the U.S. Missile Defense Shield, which will see U.S. interceptors based in Poland. Now I understand that those negotiations have been going on for 18 months and you say this is not in reaction to Georgia, it is not linked to Georgia. But surely, you could have delayed the timing of, you know, the deal. Is this an attempt to poke Russia in the eye?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, I don’t know why we would have delayed the timing of the deal. We’ve been negotiating this with Poland for quite a long time. I signed the agreement with the Czechs just a little while ago in order to place the censors and the radars in the Czech Republic. And so the deal was signed when the deal was ready.
The important point about this deal is that we’re talking about a defensive system. We’re talking about a missile defense system that couldn’t possibly be aimed at the Russian nuclear deterrent. Russia has thousands of nuclear warheads. This is for small missile attacks of the kind that Iran might launch.
QUESTION: Moving on to Pakistan, which is in the headlines, of course, at the moment as well, are you concerned that the political situation at the moment in Pakistan after the resignation of Pervez Musharraf will divert the government’s attention away from fighting militants in the tribal areas, even more so than it – than has been the case over the past few months?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, obviously, let me say first that we support this democratically elected government. The United States was a strong advocate for a set of free and fair elections which were held for President Musharraf taking off his uniform and returning to civilian rule. That was accomplished. We didn’t always agree. For instance, we didn’t agree with the state of emergency several months ago. But President Musharraf served well as an ally in the war on terror. We now have a democratically elected government.
We have said to that government that we want to help them economically. We are supporting a package within the G-7 finance ministers to help the Pakistani economy. We want to help them in terms of social development, educational reform, all of the things that they want to do. But we all have an interest in fighting terrorism and the militants, because the militants are not just after the United States or Afghanistan. These are the people who, after all, assassinated Benazir Bhutto. These are the people who have launched attacks throughout Pakistan.
And so the government does need to focus on what it is going to do to stop these militants. And we’ve had that conversation very recently when the Pakistani Prime Minister was in Washington to meet with President Bush.
QUESTION: Very briefly, one last question on Iraq. How close is the United States to signing a long-term security agreement with Iraq? It’s been in negotiations for a while. How close are you?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, we have been in these discussions. They are going well. We’re doing it as partners. I can’t tell you that it’ll be signed immediately. These are hard issues. The really hopeful and good thing about this is that we now have a clearly sovereign Iraq that has military forces that are increasingly able to defend Iraq’s territory and Iraq’s interests. We have an Iraq that, unlike a year ago or so, when people were talking about the potential failure of the Iraqi state, we’re now talking about how to build on success.
And so whatever time it takes to negotiate an agreement so that American forces can remain in order to help – long enough to help the Iraqis achieve their goals, including the training and equipping of their forces, the defeat of the terrorists who are still dangerous on their territory, we’ll take that time. But it’s a good working relationship with the Iraqis. And we want an agreement that allows our forces to help the Iraqis, but also fully respects Iraqi sovereignty.
QUESTION: Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your time.
SECRETARY RICE: Thank you.
QUESTION: Thank you, Madame Secretary.
SECRETARY RICE: Thank you.
2008/T24-4
Released on August 19, 2008
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