Remarks on the Occasion of Receiving the George P. Livanos Award

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I just wanted to say a few words and then I want to have a conversation with you.

I first want to thank all of you for being here. It means a lot to me that you’d take time out of your convention, your meetings, and come to the State Department to meet with me.

The second thing I want to say is how sorry that I’ve kept you waiting for 30 minutes.

VOICE: Thirty-five minutes. [Laughter].

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Thirty-five minutes. [Laughter]. You were counting.

I’m sorry about that. Secretary Rice came back from Moscow at 3:45 in the afternoon, and since I work for her - she’s my boss - I went down to her office. We had a meeting. She sends her best wishes to you.

Thank you for being a great friend of our government and for those of you from the United States, thank you for what you are doing to build a great Greek-American and Cypriot-American community, and for helping us to always remember these issues that have to hold us together, the issue of Cyprus and the issue of the U.S.-Greece relationship.

I also want to say thank you to the people who are seated here with me. To Andy Manatos, to Phil Christopher, to Andy Athens. To my friend Father Alex Gregorius, who I didn’t even know would be here today. When I was ambassador to Greece, Gregorius was one of the most trusted people that I knew and someone who always stood up and tried to build bridges between the United States and Greece, even as other people sometimes tried to tear down bridges. Gregorius is a great builder, trying to connect us in the Greek-American relationship side. I appreciate that.

I appreciate the fact that we have two great ambassadors here – Ambassador Mallias and Ambassador Kakouris. I count both of them as friends; I’ve known both of them a long time. We work closely together. I think that Greece and Cyprus are enormously fortunate to have a representative of their country, their government, in our country, and I thank them for doing what they’re doing to be good friends to the United States.

To all of you, and Father Alex who I’ve known for a long, long time, all of you who I’ve met, most of you I think in my travels to visit the Greek-American community, thank you very much for this great honor. I hadn’t realized with Andy and Phil, and Andy asked me to receive this award, that I was the first Philhellene to receive it. So I’m really doubly honored. Because I wear this title of Philhellene rather proudly. You don’t spend four years in Greece, as my wife and three daughters and I did, and not come back feeling committed to Greek thought, to the Greek way of life, to Greece itself in my case. My wife and I have lived in West Africa, we’ve lived in Egypt, we’ve lived in Israel, we’ve lived in France, we’ve lived in Belgium, we’ve lived in Greece. We have double the number of friends in Greece than all the other countries combined. [Laughter]. On my name day, December 6^th, Nicholas, I still get 10 to 15 phone calls, e-mails from friends in Athens, in Salonika, in Crete, and elsewhere. So we love Greece in our family. We’re personally committed to the country, to the relationship. My daughters always are pestering me, when are we going back to Greece?

I just want to say how proud I am to receive this award because I will try to do honor to the memory of a great Greek-American, the person whose name this award is for, George Livanos, and for what he represented and his family represented in the Greek-American story. So I’m really touched by this, and I mean that quite sincerely as a friend of Greece.

I think Greece is probably the most unique place in the world. Not just because you are from there and I lived there, but because it represents for those of us who are 21^st Century Americans or citizens of the United Kingdom. It’s the historical and moral touchstone of our society. It’s the place in which we receive our modern, democratic way of life and democratic thought -- in the history of the Greek people several thousand years ago, but also in the modern story of Greece. It is one of the few countries in Europe where we have always fought on the same side in every war that the United States has been in. So we’re united by blood and sacrifice as well as by values and by alliance, Greece being a valued member of the NATO Alliance.

I just wanted to say how honored I am, how committed I am to working with Ambassador Mallias to make the Greek-American relationship a great one.

I was in Zagreb, Croatia last Thursday evening and Friday, and I had a two-and-a-half hour dinner with Prime Minister Karamanlis. He’s someone I’ve known for many, many years. I admired him when he was in opposition. I thought he acquitted himself very honorably in opposition to PASOK. I admire him more as Prime Minister. I think he’s done a great job in leading the Greek people and being a friend to the United States. We are looking forward to welcoming him back to the United States at the appropriate time when his schedule permits. I know the President will be very happy to see him.

But I think the U.S.-Greece relationship has always been good. Sometimes it’s had problems, we all know that, but right now I can’t remember a time when it was as strong as it is now, free of problems as it is now, where we are working together on every conceivable issue, whether it’s Cyprus or the problems of Kosovo and Bosnia, or the problems of U.S.-European relations, the challenges of peace in the Middle East. Greece is a great friend.

VOICE: And the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: It sure is and I want to say a word about that in a moment. Thank you, Andy, for reminding me.

Andy reminds me of the issue of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. I hope to be in Istanbul on the 31^st of May and the 1^st of June. And Ambassador Wilson and I have been corresponding about paying a call to pay our respects to the Ecumenical Patriarch.

I was in Ankara to see Prime Minister Erdogan and Foreign Minister Gul in January. I raised the issue. I told Andy and Phil that I would do this. I raised the issue with Prime Minister Erdogan of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. I said there was strong support not just in the Greek-American and Orthodox communities in the United States, but in our government, by our President, for some kind of arrangement that would allow the Ecumenical Patriarchate to grow, to prosper, to reopen Halki, and to make sure that this great historic church has a future unencumbered by restrictions that we think are unnecessary and unwise. I gave him some specific suggestions as to how the Halki problem could be resolved.

We are not going to forget that issue. We are not going to let it lie. It’s part of the American tradition that we support freedom of religion, but also the health of churches that are important to our country, and we know that are important to Greek-American community and Cypriot-American community. So that issue is going to be prominent on our agenda with the Turkish government. It will be when I’m in Ankara and Istanbul at the end of this month, and I look forward to seeing the Ecumenical Patriarch, paying my respects, and giving him our support as the Archons of the Orthodox Church asked us to do. We will do so. I can assure you of that.

Let me also say that, and Phil and I have had a chance over many years to talk about this. He’s a very tough advocate of his cause. I have tremendous respect for all the gentlemen here today on the dais with me. I know that Phil has always tried to keep up on us honest in the U.S. government.

I had a very good discussion with the Ambassador just two days ago, and I look forward to many more. I would like to visit Cyprus, and I told the Ambassador that. We haven’t sent a person of my rank in years to Cyprus, and I think it’s time that we go and pay our respects to the government of Cyprus, the government of the Republic of Cyprus. I told this to the Ambassador, and I made him the promise that I made to Senator Sarbanes before I was confirmed as Under Secretary of State. We just can’t be appointed to these jobs, we have to be confirmed by the Senate. Senator Sarbanes was a great, great supporter of ours for so many years in the United States Senate, and my strongest supporter in the Senate when I was ambassador to Greece. He called me, and I’m on very friendly terms with him. He looked at me very sternly, this was two and a half years ago, and he said “some people at the State Department and official State Department publications are talking about North Cyprus.” He said “Nick, does North Cyprus exists in the eyes of the United States government?” I said “No, Senator, it doesn’t. There is no such entity. We don’t recognize any other entity or state but the Republic of Cyprus and its government in Nicosia.” He said, “Will you assure me that if you’re confirmed by my committee and by the U.S. Senate, that you will make sure that the United States government and the State Department are not confused by this fact, then I will vote for you.” I said Senator, “I want your vote and I will pledge to you that our department will not be confused by the fact that we have exactly one diplomatic relationship with Cyprus and it’s with the government that the ambassador represents.” I think we’ve kept that pledge.

You’re not seeing in the State Department publications any more references to North Cyprus because we recognize one government, and we stand for the reunification of the island, and we want to support. I’m very impressed when I meet people who have suffered so much and have lost their homes many years ago. We want to see justice done for those people who lost their homes and lost their communities so many years ago. So I thought I should say that to you, and I know I’m going to get an earful today from you, and I expect that, and I admire the fact that you’re standing up for your country, your communities, and your issues. This is the way it should be. That’s a democracy like the United States.

I could give you a long speech, but I’d much rather hear from you, hear your thoughts, your advice. I’ll try to answer any questions you have. I just want to say how grateful I am for the friendship and support of this community. I want to thank you for what you’ve done for the United States of America as a community. We are a nation of immigrants. My grandparents happened to come from another land on the opposite side of Europe called Ireland. As Ambassador to Greece, and I’ve probably told Gregorius this a few times. I came to the conclusion that the two people in Europe most similar are the Irish and the Greeks. [Laughter].

Now I include the Cypriots in this too. They have both had the extraordinarily bad fortune of living west of a rather larger country that had occupied it for centuries – that’s the story of Greece, it’s also the story of Ireland. Both countries are trying to assert their nationhood, their independence, and their pride and to work out a modern relationship with that very large neighbor to the east of them – as Ireland is trying to do with the United Kingdom, and as Greece is trying to do with Turkey. Both of us are romantic countries and peoples, who prize poetry, language, the arts, and music. And both countries have a soul. And the churches are filled in both countries and are empty in other parts of Europe.

So as an Irish-American, I felt at home in Greece and I imagine when I go to Cyprus, I will feel at home there. I thought I’d just end on that note and say that I am proud to be a Philhellene. I will always be a Philhellene. I thank you for the award.

[Applause].

QUESTION: Let me take the opportunity first of all to thank the Secretary for making time for us. It’s wonderful to be here, but after you made the speech I feel embarrassed for attacking you in any way. [Laughter].

Let me just say this. It’s a pleasure to be here, and indeed that plaque you deserve 100 percent because not only as Ambassador but in your service in the State Department you have exemplified those Hellenic ideals in the State Department. So we very much value the relationship we have with you and we value your friendship.

But of course that does not mean that we don’t have a problem. For 33 years of course now, we’ve been waiting to find a solution for the Cyprus problem. The problem with Cyprus is not a bi-communal problem. Many people think it’s a bi-communal problem. The problem is a problem of invasion and occupation.

We have here the Mayor of Kyrenia who is a mayor in exile. She cannot go back to her home, the same way that I cannot go back to the home where I was born in Kyrenia. It’s a situation of course that we have been battling for many years.

Recently after the Annan referendum, we had the issue of many people talking about the Turkish-Cypriot isolation. We want to again emphasize the fact that 60,000 Greek-Cypriot passports, Cypriot passports have been issued to Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Cypriots, as a result of the Republic of Cyprus, they are members of the European community, they can travel all over Europe. Sixteen thousand Turkish Cypriots cross the line every day, and they work in the free area, they get paid the same wages as Greek Cypriots. They get their social security free, they don’t pay taxes. There is no incentive any more for the Turkish Cypriots to want reunification. They have everything that they could possibly have.

I think I told you this story of the Turkish Cypriot that lives in the home where I was born, he told me, “Why would I want reunification? I have everything I want. I have a passport, I can go any place in the world, I don’t pay taxes, I feel free here too, and I can come to the free area any time I want.”

So the question is how we move this forward? The problem that we have is that I think our State Department will, or any administration, Republican or Democratic, we have failed to recognize that the problem stems from Turkey. Turkey is the problem. It’s not the Turkish-Cypriots. I think that the Turkish Cypriots and the Greek Cypriots are left alone, they will solve the problem. There is no question that they can get together. If we can remove the Turkish occupation forces from Cyprus and let the two communities come together and human rights for everyone. Turkish Cypriots, Armenians, Greeks. We have a big Russian community now on Cyprus. The south is becoming a country where it embraces all nationalities as Cypriot citizens.

Sometimes we get upset when we hear this whole policy of the State Department regarding isolationist, that the Turkish Cypriots are isolated, that you want to have direct flights into the occupied area, that you want to have direct trade in the occupied area. We believe that the economic standard of the Turkish Cypriots has to be improved in order to have reunification, but I think that the Cyprus government is doing more than anyone else to improve the standard of living of the Turkish Cypriots. We want the State Department actually to put pressure on Turkey to come to its senses. We all want Turkey to become a member of the European Union. Greece wants Turkey to become a member of the European Union, Cyrus wants Turkey to become a member of the European Union. In order to become a member of the European Union, Turkey must recognize the Republic of Cyprus. It continuously fails to recognize the Republic of Cyprus.

So we want our government, the American government, to take a tougher stand with Turkey, a country that we want to see in the Western world, and we are disappointed continuously with some of the statements, whether it’s from Mr. Bryza or Mr. Fried or some of the statements that they make are continuously, it seems to me that they’re not recognizing the problem. The problems are problems of an invasion and an occupation. The troops must be removed. The colonies have to go back. Let the two communities go back to their homes and let the Republic of Cyprus, that’s now a member of the European Union – You cannot have a solution in Cyprus that’s different from the rest of Europe. It’s not a second-class European country.

So that’s puzzling to me, why you don’t have a policy on Cyprus.

The other issue, of course, the one with religious freedom. Religious freedom is not only in Constantinople and the Patriarch. Recently the Talat government sold a church, a church in the city of Kyrenia, to an American citizen that made it into a workshop, an art workshop. This is the type of human rights violations that are unacceptable in this century. So the church is in the northern occupied area, have been dormant for 33 years. The churches have, in terms of religious freedom, the citizens of the Republic of Cyprus, should have the freedom to go to those churches.

That’s basically why we’re here again for the 23^rd time that we have this conference. We’re going to have about 120 people coming tomorrow. We’re going to be seeing congressmen and senators. We are going to be, again, educating them on the Cyprus issue, on the religious freedom issue, the issue of the patriarchy, and we need your support. As Senator Sarbanes said, there’s one Republic of Cyprus. There are Turkish citizens, Greek citizens, Armenians, Latins, and others. The Republic of Cyprus is an entity, a member of the European Union, a member of the United Nations, and I’m sure you saw.

I was very proud the day that the Republic of Cyprus helped the United States during the Lebanon crisis, evacuating 60,000 people including 15,000 American citizens. I think the value-added that the Republic of Cyprus brings to America is an unbelievable value and our government, the United States should value that. This is the message we want to bring to you. We depend on you who are a philhellene, not because you are a philhellene but because it’s a right and just cause that has to happen.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Phil, I knew I wouldn’t be disappointed by the strength of your convictions. I would just say, because I want to hear from everybody. I would just say two things in response.

First, I agree with you. I thanked the Ambassador the other day for what Cyprus did last July and August in evacuating 15,000 Americans in just over ten days’ time. We asked the Cypriot government to do the impossible in blazing heat, in difficult conditions where people were coming off cruise ships literally with just the clothes on their backs. They were housed, they were fed, they were directed to some onward flight or onward boat to get to where they wanted to go and nobody was hurt, no one lost their lives in the middle of a war. It was an incredible performance by the Cypriot government. We’re very grateful, and I told the Ambassador that.

I think the quality of our relationship is very good between our two countries. The Ambassador and I talked about, and I would urge him to speak about this today, what we need to do to strengthen it. That’s why at the appropriate time I want to go to Cyprus. I would like to meet the Cypriot government to pledge our support for them and our interest in a good bilateral relationship.

Second, the problem of Cyprus itself, the fact that justice has not been done for 30 years. The fact that the island is not reunited and put back together. The fact that so many families are still separated from their homes.

There are a lot of priorities in the world today. There is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the conflict in Darfur, the problem in Iraq. But we can’t say to ourselves in government, well those are priorities and we can forget about the Cyprus problem. We cannot say that. We do not say that. We refuse to say that.

I, for one, think it’s very important that we as diplomats never give up on the attempt to try to find a way forward, a solution that the people of Cyprus will embrace and accept, that the government of Cyprus agrees to. Of course, that would involve the Turkish Cypriot community and the Turkish government. We can’t give up our efforts to see that day come. Secretary Rice and I have both raised this issue with Secretary General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, the new Secretary General. We have urged him to appoint an emissary of the United Nations to Cyprus. We want, as the United States, to be part of that effort to rejuvenate the talks that would be aimed at a settlement.

I told the Ambassador too, we believe, and I think we probably have a disagreement with some people in the room, that the Annan plan of a couple of years ago was a good faith effort. We, as you know, supported it, our government did. I told the Ambassador, we can write a new chapter. We don’t have to go back to something that was tried but failed. If one government felt strongly then we need to try something new. We need to try something original. I think the United States should be at the center of this effort, along with the United Kingdom, as the two countries that have played a leading role in this for three decades now. I can pledge to you that we will make that attempt under the leadership of the United Nations, but we are mindful of the fact that justice denied is not something that a country like ours can or should accept. So I can pledge to you a 100% effort, Phil, to do what we have to do in the future to try to bring justice to Cyprus.

QUESTION: You understand the issue of the isolation. This propaganda that Turkey has been fed up. I just want to make sure. How do we pressure Turkey? What’s specific action can you give us that our government will take against Turkey?

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I guess I wouldn’t put it that way. I wouldn’t say that it’s just a question of pressure on Turkey. I think Turkey needs to be encouraged, the Cypriot government needs to be encouraged, the Turkish-Cypriot community, the Greek government, to work together towards a solution.

I think if you’re looking for silver linings, there are some. I was involved in Cyprus affairs in 1990, ’91, ’92, at a time when Mr. Denktash was representing the Turkish Cypriot interests. There was a lot of hope back then for progress. I think you see in the new Cypriot leadership, a leadership, we think, with which the Cypriot government can work productively, and we hope that’s the case. They have to be part of the solution. We saw a very progressive attempt by the Cypriot government to try to make an overture towards a more normal life in the Ledra Street opening, about which I congratulated the Ambassador. We hope that can be pursued by both sides, not just by the Cypriot government.

So I think there are things one can do to break down barriers. We do want to see the Turkish government committed to a solution on Cyprus, obviously. We addressed that point of view very vigorously with the Turkish government, but we also do to all sides. We are, in essence, a mediator. We have a point of view that is unique to ourselves, but we’re a mediator so we try to bring all sides together at the table.

QUESTION: Turkey not recognizing the Republic of Cyprus and Turkey aspires to become a member of the European Union, but yet our government doesn’t come down on Turkey and say look, if you want to become a member of the European Union you have to act appropriately and recognize the Republic of Cyprus.

Two weeks ago the Foreign Minister of Turkey who now was a proposed presidential candidate, went to Cyprus and made statements that basically told the Turkish Cypriots that we are two different republics, we’re two different people with two different languages, we have different – and basically pointed out a complete division of the island.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: We don’t accept a division of the island. We don’t have a formal, official, diplomatic relationship with the so-called Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. We have official diplomatic relations with the Republic of Cyprus, with the Ambassador’s government. So we’re clear about that.

And we don’t want the island to be divided into two camps and two states. We want it to be united. We haven’t changed, and we’re not going to change American policy and that’s fundamental point.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary and dear friend, because you are a friend. I remember one time when you were Deputy Minister, all those years you were in Greece, we had several meetings. You were always concerned about our concerns. You made them your concerns. We’re thankful to you just to be able to do what Philip has done and stated, to be able to sit – how many Deputy Secretaries have we been able to sit down and talk to this way? This is a man that we can talk to, and this is wonderful. He’s told us, he calls us in, you remember he called us in, and said he wanted to take a new initiative on Cyprus, can we continue that initiative and Philip, you’re right on in the questions you asked.

Also the patriarchate. He said I will make that a priority of the State Department. It is a priority. It’s something that’s being worked on and we’ll continue to work on with sincerity – with sincerity, not a lot of [inaudible] as we say.

Also the Macedonian issue. The Macedonian issue, and this time, we presented another issue. The pontian genocide which goes simultaneously with the Armenian genocide. We’re talking about 300,000-400,000 people perishing at that time. We presented it officially for the first time, and we shall be presenting it to you.

But we want to say thank you. Thank you, sir, for being our friend.

[Applause].

QUESTION: First of all, Nick has been our friend, and when the Ecumenical Patriarch Demetrius came here in 1990 he was in charge of the White House for that responsibility.

But I think what Phil is talking about, this is something that we feel is, we talk about Greece as being the moral touchstone of values. For us as Americans, whether we’re Greek or Cypriot in heritage, we are Americans. We’re very concerned that America in relationship to Turkey does not talk about shared values. Before the Cypriot invasion in 1974, Halki was closed in 1971. Before that, in ’64 they threw the Greeks out of Turkey who were of Greek heritage and nationality. ’55 was the pogrom. When are we going to say that this country, whom we do want to be part of the West, has to be Western? That is for us a moral, spiritual, political principal. And when are we going to tell them openly this way? In other words now, and I’m a little bit concerned that the State Department is allowing this kind of an image going around about the secularists and the religionist.

We were told by this government that the Ak party was actually a good party that would be able to bring Turkey into the modern world, moving towards the West, that we should not be concerned that they were fundamentalist in that sense, that they were probably the voice of the people. We were told this in Ankara by the U.S. Ambassador and his group at the time.

Now all of a sudden we’re seeing the deep state presenting themselves as secularists rather than nationalists, and they’re creating an image in the press, in the New York Times, that these people are trying to hold on to the great principles of Ataturk. You know as well as I do, that that’s not true. When are we going to take away the mask that Turkey constantly presents and we’re saying well, the next election we’re going to have a result, the next election we’re going to have a result. In the mean time, Constantinople, the Ecumenical Patriarch is threatened, the people of Cyprus are waiting for freedom, and we’re saying that we share shared values. With whom? With Greece? No, we’re talking about the world. Do we really have a shared value policy in the United States government? That’s a real important principle, Nick, and I’m telling you, and I love and I respect you, you’ve spoken about it, but we can’t equivocate when it comes to moral principles, especially when you are the United States, a champion of human rights and democracy in the world. That’s a painful expression, and I’m so frustrated by this it’s ridiculous.

[Applause].

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Let me just respond Father Alex. Thank you for speaking in such a forthright way. I don’t mind it at all. I think it’s good when people say what’s on their minds. I know and respect you and will continue to know and respect you, and we’ll be friends.

Let me be honest and frank. Turkey is one of our most important allies in the world.

QUESTION: (inaudible)

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Turkey is one of our most important allies in the world and will continue to be.

QUESTION: Shhh, please.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: And will continue to be. We think that the best thing for Turkey would be admittance to the European Union. The Greek government believes that.

QUESTION: The Ecumenical Patriarch believes it.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: (inaudible)

But I think the Greek government has taken a fairly courageous and visionary position. Despite the continuation of problems between the two countries, disagreements over issues of airspace, and sometimes even territory, historical issues, I think the Greek government has correctly assessed that all of us, meaning North America and Europe, would be better off if Turkey is entrenched with us and its future is westward. With, of course with NATO, where it has been a member since 1952 along with the Greeks, as well as in the European Union.

That’s strategically important for the future, and Turkey has been a friend of the United States and a very good friend of the United States for many decades. It doesn’t mean that there are no points of difference between the United States and Turkey because there are some. One of them is on the Ecumenical Patriarch. President Clinton put his best foot forward on this issue. You remember his visit to Turkey in November of 1999, as does President Bush. We are very forthright in telling the Turkish government, and I did directly to the Turkish Prime Minister, Prime Minster Erdogan in January, that we have a difference of view. That we Americans believe that the Patriarch’s future is hugely important to us as well as to the Turks, and that we’re going to continue to try to give them suggestions as to how they can resolve this problem on the closure of Halki and the other infringements on the Patriarchy itself.

The same is true of Cyprus. We don’t always see eye to eye with the Turkish government on the issue of Cyprus. We’re going to continue to say we will not accept a division of Cyprus. We will not accept a two-state solution in Cyprus. Cyprus should be one country. It should be united. There should be justice done.

So I’m a friend of Turkey and our government’s a friend of Turkey, but we will use our relationship to try to be effective on these issues.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, thank you for taking the time to see us once more. We have been have a lot of meetings in the past. We’re grateful because you’re a person, you understand the problems that we’re facing.

I am really, and I think Peter spoke about the Cyprus issue. He expressed the opinion of our community here. One thing that we did want to bring to your attention, and already spoken about is the July 8^th Agreement. This is something that both sides agreed on. It was endorsed by the Secretary General. It’s a process which is going to lead to more serious negotiations and hopefully solutions to the problem. Again, we see that Turkey doesn’t honor the agreement, they’ve been for almost a year now going back and forth with no progress, and finally they came and they sent a letter to the Secretary General with new ideas, trying to change things around.

We are really frustrated because when it comes to things that Turkey backs up or they don’t want to do, we never take a strong position. We never have a clear position to come out and say to them, you know what? This is the process that was agreed on, let’s continue, let’s move forward.

I remember very well the last time we met it was right after the agreement and we spoke that probably this is a good opportunity for a breakthrough. We spoke about Varosha how doable it was to do something with the Varosha.

The minute Turkey says that Varosha is not on the table, which is apart of the issue. I didn’t about Varosha for a year now.

So until we come to the point and to the decision that once we see that something is right to happen and it’s good for the process and it’s good for the solution and the future with the Cypriots, there is no way we can achieve anything because I think history and recent events show that Turkish Cypriot administration their has very little to say in the process. We saw what happened with the labor checkpoint, how they make some statement. He can back with different statement. Then from the Turkish press we found out that even on their so-called constitution it says that for issues that have to do with national security. The army makes the decision, not the Turkish Cypriots authorities.

The events that happened in Turkey with you. I mean the [inaudible] state always has the upper hand. So it’s about time that we come out with clear statements. I think this is July 8th agreement. It’s an easy task, an easy way to move forward with the process.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I think you’re absolutely right to raise July 8^th. We did meet shortly after last summer, you remember this. We thought July 8^th was a great step forward. We still think that. To establish these technical committees to work on day to day issues was a way to do two things. It was to, in essence, return to the spirit of the negotiations and encourage the United Nations to restart full-fledged negotiations on the Cyprus problem.

One of the problems in the world is the United Nations and countries like ours are pulled in a lot of different directions. The war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the Darfur problem, the threat of Iranian nuclear weapons. We’ve got to reassert diplomatically, and I’ve talked to both Ambassadors about this, we’ve got to jumpstart the Cyprus talks and recommit to them and get the United Nations in the center.

July 8^th, we thought, was a very good, in fact quite ingenious way of getting those talks, refloating the Cyprus problem, getting it some attention in the world, having some pragmatic steps taken to give confidence to people on Cyprus itself.

I agree with you, we would have liked to have seen greater commitment to it. We’re still interested in it.

I think we’ve spoken very clearly in our government about our belief, our support for it. And in meeting with the leadership a couple of times, Dan Fried, Matt Bryza, and I have all said we want to make Cyprus a priority again. That’s one of the ideas I had in offering a visit if the Cypriot government would like me to come. Offering to go to Cyprus, to listen, to listen to the government. To listen to the government officials.

QUESTION: [Inaudible].

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: No, no, I’m sure – [Laughter]. We want to show some high-level American interest in this problem. I told the Ambassador a lot of great diplomats have broken their pick on this issue. All the way back. Remember Dean Acheson and George Ball, in the early 1960s on this issue. So we don’t approach this, Secretary Rice and Dan Fried and I, don’t approach this with any degree of confidence in the sense that we’re humbled by the fact that it’s a difficult, difficult problem, but we have to try. I’ve made that commitment to the Ambassador, that we will try. We’ll try to be supportive of his government and have a good relationship with it.

QUESTION: Can I just make one point, just to try to paint a little bit of an accurate picture of what we see in Washington on this issue. It might help people understand the kind of things that people like Nick are dealing with. All one had to do was be at Brookings Institute the other day when America’s foreign policy establishment, and I’m not talking about this Republican, it was Democrats, but very big names. And there was a consensus, and this consensus regardless of what we say as Americans our goals are for democracy, our goals for human rights, regardless of what the Cyprus government says, regardless of what the Greek government says. When you’re in that government and you get behind closed doors, you don’t hear those kinds of things brought up. What you hear very succinctly is what is our country’s interest in this? That is how countries make decisions.

Let me tell you what the foreign policy establishment, how it described it, and there wasn’t even the slightest variation about Turkey.

Turkey has the ninth largest standing armed force in the world and it’s perceived by NATO to be a lynch pin of NATO, not just a NATO member, but a lynch pin of NATO. It’s a somewhat, they didn’t use the word somewhat, but a somewhat democratic country, a Muslim democratic country in a neighborhood of Muslim countries that are very hostile toward the United States, and to be very crass about it, it is a nation of 71 million people of a potential market for American exports. These are the kinds of hard-boiled calculations that are made by our government or any government.

All I’m saying is that’s sort of what the establishment takes, the position they take.

People like Nick who try to move these things in the right direction frequently injure their own careers. When Ed Durwinski was Under Secretary of State, he fought it so hard that he was just pushed aside in the Reagan administration and absolutely devastated his State Department career as a result of trying to move this issue in the direction that we all feel, including Nick, that it should go. But it’s a tough game.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, in the summer of 2000 when Secretary Rice, your boss, was Provost Rice at Stanford, Bishop Anthony of San Francisco and I went to see her. We had a very nice visit with her and she asked the question. She said “I don’t understand why the issue of Cyprus has been put in the perspective of a conflict between two communities. It is a conflict between two countries – an occupier and an occupied country.”

Please remind the Secretary of that conversation. She was very impressed by the propensity and I’m sure she will remember it.

But there is a different question. The Los Angeles Times on [April 13^th] quotes General Buyukanit, the Chief of the Armed Forces of Turkey as saying there is a need for a military operation against the terrorist organizations. He refers to the PKK in the north of Iraq. This should be done militarily. It would be very useful. What is our government doing to prevent this kind of disaster, this sort of a surprise attack by Turkey other than saying please be good boys? They need a little stronger deterrent.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Thank you very much. Thank you for your friendship with Secretary Rice. She’s someone who’s deeply committed to these issues. She’s asked us to make sure that we’re putting our best foot forward, and I’ll remind her of your conversation with Bishop Anthony.

On the issue of PKK, we’re very concerned. The PKK in our view is a vicious terrorist group. It’s a group that’s been responsible for attacks on civilians as well as Turkish soldiers. They’ve killed a very high amount of Turkish citizens.

We classify the PKK as a terrorist group. We encourage our European allies where PKK have political front offices to close those offices down. We support Turkey in its fight against terrorism, as we expect Turkey to support us in our fight as Americans against terrorism. We certainly are trying to work very closely with the Turkish government to deal with this problem.

There’s a third actor, and that’s the government of Iraq, so we’re working with the Iraqi government as well to see if it can take the necessary measures to prevent the type of cross-border attacks from the PKK, from northern Iraq into Turkey itself. It’s a major problem for Turkey when you have a group that has turned to violence and has turned to terrorist tactics. Not only directed at I think the Turkish military, but against civilians.

So we’re completely sympathetic with the Turkish government on this issue. We’re close partners. We hope very much that there will not be any kind of need for an attack by Turkey itself, but we’re very sympathetic and are working with them to diminish this threat of the PKK.

I had to deal with this issue when I was Ambassador to Greece, as you remember some very dramatic events, the Ocalan Affair and others. But the consistent record of both the Clinton and Bush administration has been unstinting support for Turkey in this issue, as we should.

I know there are men and women around the table who agree with the United States, that we are friends and Allies of Turkey. We are friends and Allies of Turkey. We want to be good friends and Allies of the Turks. When a country is confronted with a terrorist threat, we have to stand by Turkey as we are doing.

QUESTION: [Inaudible] and the PKK, the PKK [inaudible].

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I wouldn’t agree with that. I think that the fact that the Turkey has lost so many lives to PKK terrorists is the primary preoccupation of the Turkish government, as I understand it.

QUESTION: I think I’ll completely agree with that. The PKK is a terrorist group. The thing that we want to bring to the attention from Turkey is the plight of the Kurdish people in Turkey where they have been fighting for human rights in Turkey, as Turkish citizens, where they cannot speak their own language. So these are the kinds of things that would make our friend and ally, which Turkey should be a friend and ally of the United States. I think Turkey should extend human rights to the Kurdish people.

The other point I want to make is that at the most critical time when troops want to cross to go to Iraq, Turkey did not allow our troops to cross. This great ally and friend has been most[inaudible] for American lives because we were not able to cross from the Turkish side.

The last thing on my mind is that the so-called [inaudible]. We have been [inaudible] and it would not be a bad idea to recognize the [inaudible]. Putting our troops [inaudible]. [Inaudible]

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Before we – I just want to reply to my friend Phil’s statement, because we have members of the 4^th Estate present. [Laughter]. Demetrios, Tom, Lambros, all friends of mine.

The United States stands for a unified Iraq. We do not wish to see Iraq divided into a Kurdish or a Sunni or a Shia state. We want to see the state exist and prosper eventually with its current borders. So it’s true that there is prosperity and relative security in Irbil and in the other major cities of the Kurdish areas, but we, the whole process the United States has supported since 2003, since the invasion of Iraq is a constitutional arrangement that would keep Iraq together, and have power shared by the main groups.

So I just wanted, with members of the press, I want you to understand these issues, present, I want to make sure that our views are registered in response to Phil’s very good statement.

QUESTION: [Inaudible].

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I know you didn’t ask me to do so, but I’m watching the Sox, and we’re doing fine this year.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: [Inaudible]. [Laughter].

QUESTION: I want to point something out. I’m not wearing the cloth like Father Alex, so I’m not going to talk about morality. But these are difficult times that we’re going through – terrorism, wars, with our ranking in the polls as Americans very, very low the world over. We shared all that anxiety with our Ambassador in Athens. And we pointed out to him that what happened between [inaudible] and today, how come the Macedonian issue has taken such a terrible turn. And the response was, well it was about 60 years ago. I said, “Outside of that door is David Saltiel, President of Jewish Community of Thessaloniki so I bring him in. I tell him what happened 60 years ago is not relevant today. This is one thing that hurt.

The second thing that hurt is during the conversation we were asked, of course, if there is to choose between the United States and Greece, you will choose the United States. I felt that was in insult. I remind the Ambassador, that the Greeks have this Socratian complex. You recall when Socrates had been condemned to death, his friends went to jail to take him out, to take him safely to Corinth, he refused. He said I spent all my life talking about the things that are wrong with our democracy. I would be a fake if I run away.

My country has condemned to death, and I’m going to die. He said the famous [Inaudible]. Before the father and all the ancestors, the holiest thing is Patriarchate. For us, Greek-Americans, we are blessed to have two Patriarchate. We feel very comfortable in that role. We don’t like when our patriotism is being questioned in anybody, including the United States.

QUESTION: [Inaudible]

QUESTION: President, the Ambassador said, of course if you have to choose between on an issue that Greece and the United States disagree, you will support the United States. Yes we will. But we will not stop speaking out however when we see things being wrong.

I will pause and say that I would like to ask you to convey my president, that I love it, that I pray for it every night because I think he has an impossible job. But I reserve the right to disagree with it, and when I do, I speak out loud.

With that, I will stop. I hope you will do that. Thank you, sir.

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Can I just say, I apologize to all of you. I’ve got to leave for a meeting, but I just wanted to say I appreciate your heartfelt comments. All of us come from some place else. We’re a nation of immigrants, as I said before. And we need to understand that American citizens have ancestral homelands of which they are proud. No one would ever ask you to choose between them. It’s perfectly consistent for Americans to be Americans but also be proud of where they come from. I know the Pan-Macedonian Society, and I know you, Panno, have always upheld those values. You represent a community that’s important to us, and I hope that we can keep meeting and talking about the issues that are of concern to you.

QUESTION: [Inaudible].

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: [Inaudible].

QUESTION: [Inaudible]. Having let so many men speak, I hope you can accept a question from a woman. [Laughter]. I am [inaudible]. [Inaudible] make it today. One of them [inaudible], which I want to bring to your attention. That is [inaudible] my second point.

I want to say [inaudible] or was given financial aid by the U.S. government to stop the UNDP process through the [inaudible]. But [inaudible]. They have [inaudible]. Because it is the only one they want in 1974, and this is our only religious heritage we have as a community. And today, last week, they changed their minds and they attempted the monastery to be [inaudible]. The monastery is [inaudible]. It was all because [inaudible] in 1974 and because of this, they won’t. This is one aspect.

The second aspect, we ask you to simply as a friend, and since you allocated $500,000 for the restoration of this monastery, to speak to them and allow us to restore it. Because this is part of our civilization. We are [inaudible], we belong to the Greek Cypriot community. We want to return in great forces and voices for the rest of the Greek-Cypriots, we want to go back home. I asked [inaudible] if [inaudible]. We want to go back. We want the [inaudible] to leave our country and the settlers as well.

Secondly, if [inaudible], my husband is the president of committee [inaudible] of the European Parliament. Last week he liberated an exhibition on the [inaudible] of Cyprus. For some of [inaudible] to see that, the churches are turning into discos and coffee shops. Some of them [inaudible]. Seventy of them to mosques. When the Cypriot government is doing everything possible, having to spend more than one billion Euros to [inaudible] the mosques in the Greek area and [inaudible]. And they don’t allow it. [Inaudible] We ask them for the permission for the Cypriot government to restore the 500 churches, the 60,000 looted icons, and all this destruction they have done.

So what we want from you is to help us. This [inaudible] belong to me or to you or to anybody. It belongs to the whole of the world. It’s 5,000 years history, and this is [inaudible]. Why? Because they want to in every element of culture in the north and they want to [inaudible] of their own, they [inaudible] in the south. The churches belong to the [inaudible]. If you go and [inaudible] churches of the world [inaudible].

So we don’t ask for anything. We ask for your help to save our cultural heritage. And [inaudible] to ask you to help us to restore [inaudible].

QUESTION: Well said.

[Applause].

UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Let’s talk in a moment.

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for taking this much time to not only speak with us but to listen. Thank you very very much.

[Applause].