Interview with “Jornal de Globo”R. Nicholas Burns, Under Secretary for Political AffairsSao Paulo, Brazil February 6, 2007 REPORTER: Mr. Burns, are you happy with the stance that the Brazilian government has assumed concerning Mr. Hugo Chavez? UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: First of all, let me say we are very happy with our relationship with Brazil. We think that Brazil and the United States have an opportunity to lead in the hemisphere, and we think that both of us have a lot of natural connections with each other, our private sectors, our peoples, our governments. It seems to us that there are so many challenges in this hemisphere - whether it is crime or drugs or the challenge of poverty and social justice - that our partnership could be developed into a strong partnership, even stronger than today. I think that partnership will be the leading voice in the hemisphere. So I will tell you frankly about our relationship with Venezuela.We have a relationship with the Venezuela. We have an ambassador there, in fact a very good ambassador, Bill Brownfield. We do not focus too much on Hugo Chavez in Washington. We do not obsess about him. Frankly, since he has taken his country in an entirely different direction than nearly everybody else in the hemisphere or the world, Venezuela is not very much on our radar screen. It is not really participating in the effort to try to build this hemisphere of cooperation, whether it is on trade or on democracy, because through actions such as nationalization Chavez is pursuing the failed policies of the past. So we tend on focus on our partners, and Brazil as a partner. REPORTER: (Unintelligible) as we said, that is -- we're trying to do that, this sort of leadership together. (Unintelligible) leadership in Brazil and the United States (unintelligible) Hugo Chavez must be your opponent. UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Well, you know, I would not say these are mutually exclusive. There are many centers of leadership in Latin America, at least we begin of course with Canada and Mexico in the Americas, in our hemisphere. We have such a strong relationship with Colombia and Panama. We have very good relations - I think very much improving relations - with Argentina and certainly Chile, and we have lots of friends in the hemisphere. If there is one country that is the most powerful in terms of its economic weight, of the voice that it has globally, it is Brazil. Our president, of course, has a very good relationship with President Lula. They like each other a lot. I was in the meeting that they had in St. Petersburg in Russia in July. It was a very good meeting of the minds. Our view is that we can strengthen this relationship, but it does not mean we are going to agree on everything. We will not, because we are very different countries. But there are enough connections and we are responsible enough, both of us, that we think we can build a partnership here that can make a positive difference on the variety of issues that are important to people of the hemisphere, whether it is Americans in the United States of America or Brazilians or whether it is Panamanians. 2006 was an extraordinary year. There were 13 elections for governments. There were other elections. There was an election in my country, an election in Canada. A lot of sentiments were voiced in those elections. People voted for democracy. People voted for trade and association, I think, with the great market economies because that means great economic growth. People voted to invest in climate problems, global climate change and problems of pollution. We recognized that people voted for social justice and people want their governments to answer the problem of poverty. So it seems to us that if Brazil and the United States, working with a lot of other countries, can build a set of cooperative relationships to address all those problems, that is where the hemisphere is headed. It is not headed, in our judgment, in the failed policies of the past, of nationalizations and the politics of division. It is headed in a more positive direction that Brazil represents as positive, that Chile represents, Argentina, that my country represents. So that is where we prefer to put our focus. REPORTER: Because I was relieved to hear from you that Venezuela is not (unintelligible) in case of (unintelligible). Because Chavez is buying weapons, weapons that are not needed for internal conflicts like very powerful Russian jets, (unintelligible) there are lots of (unintelligible) weapons are being supplied maybe (unintelligible). We think Brazil is basically (unintelligible). UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: I do not think it is appropriate for me, I am a guest here in your country. I do not want to give public advice to the government of Brazil. The government of Brazil is a powerful government. It knows how to defend itself or express its own interests in a region. I can just give you an American perspective, a perspective from the United States. I really mean what I say. When I said that we are not really thinking too much of Hugo Chavez, it is because we are a global power. Look at our challenges. We have these extraordinary challenges in the Middle East, peace in Lebanon, Iraq, what to do about Iran's increasing power, which is very negative, how to bring the Israelis and Palestinians together. We have got these positive opportunities in South Asia. We are building a huge relationship with India. India is a global strategic partner for us. We have an improving relationship with China. It is probably the best relationship that any American government has had since the creation of Communist China in 1949. We have our great allies in the Pacific, Japan, Australia and South Korea. So we have tremendous interests and responsibilities. Frankly, in this hemisphere, we prefer to have a positive agenda. If Chavez wants to take his country in a direction completely opposite of where most of the world is going, well, that is his choice. But we are not going to let that deter us from having a good relationship with Brazil and Argentina and our other friends in the hemisphere. REPORTER: Let's talk about Brazil and the U.S.-Brazil agenda a little bit before we move to (unintelligible) as well. So you are working hard on some discussions on biodiversity? UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Yes. REPORTER: What is on the table? UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: We have an energy crisis in the United States and in the rest of the world. Energy has become a distorted influence on global events. You have these countries like Iran and Venezuela who are using energy, and yet all of us understand that we cannot be addicted to oil; that we have got to diversify our energy sources. Now, Brazil has been the leader in ethanol, and the United States and Brazil together have over 70 percent of the world's market in ethanol. So there is an area where our private sectors, as well our governments, can cooperate together. We do think that we should have an agreement between Brazil and the United States in 2007. REPORTER: Like what (unintelligible). UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: We sometimes have different views on the issue of tariffs from those our Congress believes in. But that should not stop Brazil and the United States with going forward with research and development, from trying to have a regional cooperative effort that could bring other countries into the mix, especially to create a global market where ethanol could be a commodity with Brazil and the United States as large producers, delivering a cleaner source of energy. Certainly it is going to be able to allow us to be weaned from oil, which has been of course, a major contributor to some of the environmental problems that we have. So we see biofuels as a unifying issue for both governments. As I said, we are here not to finish an agreement. We are here to discuss an agreement in Brasilia with the government tomorrow, and we are looking forward to those discussions. We had an excellent talk with Governor Serra here in San Paulo. He and his advisors had a nice lunch for us. We had a long talk about the promise of biofuels. So biofuels could become, in many ways, the symbolic center of the U.S.-Brazil relationship. It could signify what our governments and our private sectors can do together if we cooperate. We see it as a very positive issue and I know that we look forward to an agreement this year that would propel us to that type of cooperation. REPORTER: Let me address you on the issue of the Middle East. The Brazilian government has had some differences with the actions that the U.S. took in the Middle East the last four years. The Brazilian government is concerned that the lack of progress when you see them? UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: What we will tell the Brazilian government tomorrow when we seem them, is the United States, President Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, have made a fundamental decision, and that is that we are going to use our influence and our position of power in the Middle East to press very hard for a settlement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. We do believe in the creation of a Palestinian state that could live side by side with Israel. Secretary Rice hosted the quartet just four days ago in Washington, D.C., which included the United Nations, the European Union, and the Russian Foreign Minister. She will be going back to the Middle East shortly, where she is going to convene a meeting with Prime Minister Olmert and with Abu Mazen, the leader of Fatah - the president of the Palestinian Authority. We are determined to use the considerable influence of the United States, as we have always had in this region, to push for peace in the Middle East. This is important because we know that that resolving this issue will have a positive effect on everything else that happens in the Middle East. We know that we must also act to protect the democracy that is under threat in Lebanon. We are strong supporters of Prime Minister Siniora. We know that we have got to find a way forward to help the Iraqis be successful in ending the violence in the streets of Iraq and providing a period of stability that could help in the future so the Iraqis can build their state, free of the violence that has been so frequent, unfortunately, and so tragic in the streets of their country. As I said, we have got the problem of Iran, too, which is a global international problem where I think we have had some good discussions with the Brazilians. REPORTER: Well, the Brazilian government would very much support that as well. That is my last, my very last question, and people read signs of the (unintelligible) military (unintelligible) and (unintelligible) are (unintelligible) that expenses and risks are getting higher and higher since Iran (unintelligible) of weapons, killing American soldiers in Iraq. Don't you think that after the mess that the Iraqi war has (unintelligible) going (unintelligible) Iran will only get worse (unintelligible)? UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: Well, first of all, the United States has no intention of undertaking a military offensive against Iran, in Iran. No intention whatsoever. In fact, we believe that there is probably a diplomatic solution out there that if we are patient and we are skillful and we work internationally the way we are with China and Russia and the European countries, hopefully all of us can convince the Iranians not to become a nuclear weapons power. We are very pleased that Brazil and India and Egypt all voted a year ago this week in the IAE board of governors to say to the Iranians it's fine to have civil nuclear power. It is not fine to have nuclear weapons. As you know, the United States has had its Navy in the Gulf since 1949. So it is not a surprise that we should have a carrier battle group right now in the Gulf. We have security obligations to our friends in the Gulf states such as Saudi Arabia. Of course, we have our military operations in Iraq to think of. But this is not an attempt by the United States to somehow provoke a conflict with Iran. In fact, the Iranians have isolated themselves. They are now a very isolated country. No one is supporting them, with the possible exception, as we said before, of Venezuela and Syria and Belarus, on the nuclear issue. Not a single country has criticized us for detaining Iranian military and intelligence officials who have given Shiite insurgent groups technology to kill our soldiers. We are simply defending our soldiers in Iraq. I think the message to Iran also is: if you continue to support Hamas and Hezbollah and fund their insurrections against the moderate Palestinians in the West Bank in Gaza, and against the democratically-elected government of Lebanon, that is not going to be an effort that is going to win you any favor with most of the rest of the world. So we are on a diplomatic path. We think that diplomacy can succeed. You know that we have offered to negotiate with Iran. Secretary of State Rice said that she will be at those negotiations. We have not had negotiations in three decades. It really would behoove the Iranians to think clearly and to accept this offer and negotiate with us. That is the best way to put it. REPORTER: Thank you very much. UNDER SECRETARY BURNS: It was pleasure. Released on February 16, 2007 |
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