Briefing With Director of Office of Korean Affairs Sung Kim

MR. KIM: Six hands.

MR. MCCORMACK: -- at Yongbyon. So --

QUESTION: Oh, really?

MR. MCCORMACK: We have about – we have about 10 to 15 minutes. This is on the record and, you know, he’s here to talk about his most recent trip. You’ve asked all the questions about all the other stuff surrounding the six-party talks. So without any further ado, Sung, if you want to – if you have anything you want to say at the top? Otherwise, we can get right into questions.

MR. KIM: Sure. Thanks very much, Sean. Let me just say that, you know, I just returned, as Sean mentioned, and witnessed the collapse of the cooling tower. I think it was a significant disablement step. But perhaps more importantly, I think it serves as a symbol of the six parties’ commitment to full denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, and I think it does put us in a good position to move into the next phase of denuclearization.

But I don’t want to overstate the importance, because as the President made clear a couple of days ago, we have a lot of work left. And I think one of the first things we’ll have to do when the six parties convene is to work out a robust verification protocol for checking their declaration.

So if you have any questions on my trip, the cooling tower, disablement?

QUESTION: Yeah, how did the North Koreans react to that? Do they – do you think they’re sad to lose this program or is there any way to gauge how much they felt it was --

MR. KIM: Yeah, you know, I think there is a significant degree of emotional attachment to the Yongbyon facilities. In fact, our main interlocutor for this activity was the -- Director Ri of the Yongbyon facilities. And I think I detected and I think some of your media colleagues detected a sense of sadness when the tower came down.

But I thought he put it well when he was asked, you know, what this all meant for him. And he said that he just hoped that this would contribute to peace and stability.

QUESTION: Is there any progress on working out a meeting to work out the verification protocol? What do you think is going to be the timing on that?

MR. KIM: I think the Chinese have been in touch with the parties. I mean, we would like to see a round scheduled as soon as possible, you know, but we don’t have a specific date yet.

QUESTION: Is there any sense of when outside experts will be able to look at the nuclear weapons themselves and begin extracting plutonium from them?

MR. KIM: I think the first step is to get a strong verification protocol in place, work out a six-party verification team, and we’ll take it from there. I think it’s difficult to predict a timeline for that activity at the moment.

QUESTION: Do you think that is the last thing that will happen? Is that the card that North Koreans want to hold onto the longest, those weapons?

MR. KIM: I think that is possible, but it’s very clear that that is what we are pursuing and that we consider the next phase of denuclearization to be complete abandonment of their nuclear programs and weapons.

QUESTION: What can you tell us about the actual, you know, destruction of the tower? You know, who prepared it, how long did it take to get the explosives in place? I realize you weren’t there for probably all of that meeting. You know, who pushed the button, that kind of thing?

MR. KIM: Well, the North Koreans did all of the prep work. I think it took them, I want to say, about 10 to 14 days to prepare it. As you saw in the pictures, it was quite dramatic. There was a huge blast and a complete collapse in the tower. After the dust cleared, we actually had an opportunity to go down to the site and walk around and we were able to confirm that it was a complete destruction.

As far as I could tell, it was one big blast. And I don’t have the figures on how much dynamite they used, but it was obviously enough to bring that large tower down.

MR. MCCORMACK: Sung, can you talk a little bit about where you were in relation to the tower? I know Peter Haenle showed us a videotape --

MR. KIM: Mm-hmm.

MR. MCCORMACK: -- that he had and it was quite striking. There was a second and a half delay between when you saw the smoke and then you heard --

MR. KIM: Right. The North Koreans had arranged for us to observe the blast from about – I think about a thousand meters, about a kilometer away from the site. But we had also a very good view of the site.

QUESTION: You were in the same place that the cameras were?

MR. KIM: Yes, I was.

QUESTION: The view that you saw was the same as what --

MR. KIM: Exactly.

QUESTION: -- we saw on TV?

MR. KIM: Yeah. And as Sean mentioned, you know, it was far enough so that, you know, you saw the smoke, that it actually took a second or so for us to hear the blast. And then, you know, once the dust cleared, you could tell that it was completely destroyed.

QUESTION: Who actually did it?

MR. KIM: The North Koreans.

QUESTION: This guy Ri?

MR. KIM: Well, I think his colleagues – I mean, his engineers prepared it. I mean, I think they had some advice from their, sort of, demolition experts. But we were not involved.

QUESTION: They have done (inaudible)?

MR. KIM: I’m sorry?

QUESTION: Why don’t they take down that enormous pyramid in the middle of Pyongyang?

MR. KIM: I understand they are actually rebuilding it.

QUESTION: Oh, they are? So – but it all went according to plan? Was there any --

MR. KIM: Yes, they actually did a very good job of preparation and following through with the action.

QUESTION: And what about this idea that they were – they wanted more money? You guys were prepared to give them (inaudible)?

MR. KIM: No, you know --

QUESTION: (Inaudible?)

MR. KIM: We have been paying for the cost of disablement and collapse of the cooling tower is no different. We’re paying for the cost, nothing else.

QUESTION: Which was?

MR. KIM: I don’t think I want to get into figures.

QUESTION: Forty dollars for a little (inaudible)?

MR. MCCORMACK: We’ll try to get you the final figure, Matt. I’m not quite sure what it was.

QUESTION: Well, there have been --

MR. KIM: Well, actually, the other – we don’t know yet, because the arrangement we have with them is that they carry out a disablement act, they give us an itemized bill, we review it. And once it’s confirmed, we make payment.

QUESTION: So --

QUESTION: Did you have discussion with the North Koreans this time on the way to pin down the – how to get the – your technicians into the country, into the site and to verify on – in terms of verification and the (inaudible)?

MR. KIM: We had a general discussion about the importance of verification, but, you know, it’s supposed to be a six-party effort. So I think details of setting up a verification protocol, a verification regime will be worked out at the next round of six-party talks.

QUESTION: What were you wearing at this event?

QUESTION: A suit.

QUESTION: Did you have --

QUESTION: Did you see him on TV?

QUESTION: Did they give you any kind of protective --

QUESTION: You saw him on TV?

QUESTION: Did you need any protective --

MR. KIM: No, I think we were fine. They had little helmets prepared for us, but --

QUESTION: Did you put them on?

MR. KIM: No, because they weren’t putting them on, so we just – we didn’t – (Laughter.) Paul and I didn’t want to be the only ones looking silly with the white helmet on. But I was wearing this suit.

QUESTION: This is the third – your third trip?

MR. KIM: It’s more like 13^th trip in the past year.

QUESTION: Thirteenth in the past year, but to Yongbyon?

MR. KIM: To Yongbyon, it’s probably five, six times.

MR. MCCORMACK: How do you usually get there? Do you drive across the DMZ on up to Pyongyang or how does it usually --

MR. KIM: Past few times, I’ve driven across the DMZ straight. It’s much more comfortable than flying through Beijing. It takes about two hours from DMZ to Pyongyang. One of the nice things about North Korea is that there’s no traffic, so – straight shot to Pyongyang. And then from Pyongyang to Yongbyon is about an hour and a half drive.

QUESTION: I have two questions. I mean, some of us, I think, back at State often wonder what it’s like – what it’s like for you to go to these nuclear places and stuff, and I wonder if you’re ever worried about your own personal well-being in some ways?

And --

QUESTION: And whether we should shake hands with him?

QUESTION: (Laughter.) I mean, the other question was, it was noted that North Korea didn’t report any of this in its own media, right? There were -- the lead story was something about him donating books to a library. And I’m wondering how you interpret that.

MR. KIM: Well, sometimes, it takes them a couple of days to report (inaudible) weapon. So I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility that they will be reporting it in the next day or so. So I – you know, I don’t think – I don’t place any special meaning to that.

I don’t know; now having had five or six trips to Yongbyon facilities in every possible corner of the facility, I think it’s probably a little too late for me to be worried about my personal health. You know, we wear protective gear when we go into areas that could possibly be contaminated. I hope I’m okay.

QUESTION: So did you all go in – you all went in the big convoy, you as well as the TV crews and --

MR. KIM: No, I think the media reps were in two separate buses. We had a separate car.

QUESTION: No, I meant convoy. I mean, the same group of cars all going (inaudible)?

MR. KIM: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah.

QUESTION: Can you talk about the pace of the surging? U.S. holding down its (inaudible) and are they moving to speed up (inaudible)?

MR. KIM: Yeah. In fact, that was one of the things I discussed with the foreign ministry officials there, and they have agreed to expedite the pace. We don’t know to what level yet, but they have committed to expedite the pace.

QUESTION: When you have – Mr. Hadley, the other day in Washington, kind of – what seemed kind of a valedictory nature to them regarding the six-party talks. So I wonder, do you think this is the best that the U.S. Administration, the Bush Administration is going to do in the six-party talks? And what’s your strategy to kind of keep North Korea interested in talking and moving forward when the Administration only has six or seven months to go?

MR. KIM: Well, I mean, I think the President made very clear that we’re committed to pursuing a full denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, complete dismantlement of North Korea’s nuclear program and their weapons. I think when the six parties convene, hopefully soon, we’ll be talking about a verification regime protocol.

But we’ll also be discussing a roadmap for the next phase, which we and other parties believe should be the final phase of denuclearization. So what we hope to do is at least have in motion the final phase of denuclearization. Maybe we won’t have time to actually complete all of the tasks, but at least have in place the next phase.

QUESTION: So you don’t think it’s realistic to complete the final – you don’t think it’s realistic to complete the final phase of this process before the end of the Bush Administration?

MR. KIM: Well, at this point, I wouldn’t rule anything out. I mean, you know, we’re just – still in the second phase of denuclearization. What we need to do is, you know, verify the declaration, but also pursue the next and the final phase of denuclearization concurrently. And I think, you know, if we work together with the other parties, it’s possible that we might complete the task. I just – I don’t think we should rule it out.

QUESTION: Complete how much, sorry?

MR. KIM: Complete the final phase.

QUESTION: Complete the final phase in that short period? I thought it would take years. All the analysts say four years or --

MR. KIM: I’m not – verification of the declaration is a very complicated process and that could continue for a while. But there are other aspects to denuclearization that could be done more quickly, so I just don’t think we should rule it out. I mean, we don’t even have a roadmap for the final phase yet.

QUESTION: Oh, don’t use that word. (Laughter.)

MR. MCCORMACK: Does anybody have a final question?

QUESTION: Halfway, meet them halfway --

QUESTION: Could I just ask – when you – you said that -- a degree of emotional attachment to the tower. I mean, how do you know that? What – I mean, is this the North Koreans, are they --

MR. KIM: I mean, they –

QUESTION: Are there pictures of the tower in downtown Pyongyang saying, you know, this is – I mean, well, how do you --

MR. KIM: Well, I think just look at the expressions of the Yongbyon engineers who were at the site when this happened.

QUESTION: Uh-huh, but those are people who are – that work – I guess they live there, right? I mean, that’s – this has been their life for --

MR. KIM: Right.

QUESTION: -- quite a while. What about – I mean, I realize your contact with actual North Koreans is limited, but, I mean, do you get a sense that beyond the people who made a living doing this, there is emotional attachment?

MR. KIM: I think it’s hard to tell because it’s – Janine pointed out, North Koreans haven’t publicized the collapse of the cooling tower yet. So I can’t really comment.

QUESTION: Right, but I mean, in – but in your – you’ve talked with officials quite a bit. I mean, I guess the question is, how much of a big deal do they – do you think that they think that this is? I mean, do they --

MR. MCCORMACK: What’s the sense of the man in the street?

QUESTION: No, just – I know the (inaudible).

MR. KIM: Exactly. I can tell you what the man in the foreign ministry – you know --

QUESTION: The officials, I mean, do they see this as some – you know, as a more important development than, perhaps, you do? I mean, you say it’s a significant step, but, you know, it’s just – it is symbolic more than anything else. Well, do you think the North Koreans see it that way as well, or do they think – do they think that this is an end of something?

MR. KIM: Well, I think they believe it’s --

QUESTION: (Inaudible.)

MR. KIM: I think they believe it’s an important step, but they also realize that there is a lot more work to do.

QUESTION: They do?

MR. KIM: So there is no illusion about that.

QUESTION: Okay. Can I just follow up on --

MR. MCCORMACK: Let’s have one last question because Sung has to get back to a meeting. Who wants to close?

QUESTION: Yeah, I was just going to ask, I mean, given the emotional attachment that you’ve seen perhaps at – for the cooling tower and maybe other times, do you ever doubt they will really give up everything? Has that crossed your mind that they will at least want to hold onto something from this program, that they won’t give up everything?

MR. KIM: Well, I think that one of the reasons why we’ve taken this phased approach is that you don’t really know until you actually test them. And, you know, we went through the first initial phase of shutdown. Now we’re in, sort of, entering phase of disablement and declaration. I think we need to move into the next phase and test their commitment.

MR. MCCORMACK: All right. Thank you.

QUESTION: Can I just ask one? Is there a chance the document is going to be – the declaration is going to become public? And why isn’t it public now?

MR. KIM: Well, I think the six – the six – the five parties just received it yesterday, day before. I think we need to have – the five party – the six parties need to decide how to handle in terms of publicizing the document.

QUESTION: Do you think there’s a chance that it will become public?

QUESTION: Before it’s leaked to the New York Times?

QUESTION: Can you give us a copy right now?

QUESTION: Mm-hmm. (Laughter.)

MR. MCCORMACK: Thanks, guys.

QUESTION: You mentioned that – what’s the name of the director of (inaudible)? Ri*?

MR. KIM: Ri.

QUESTION: R-h-e-e?

MR. KIM: It’s – I think he spells it R-i.

QUESTION: R-i. Does he have any other names or is that just (inaudible)?

MR. KIM: Yongho, Y-o-n-g-h-o.

QUESTION: Y-o-n-g-h-o?

MR. KIM: Mm-hmm.

QUESTION: Did you say he was the one who went down to be sure that it was destroyed, or who – you said afterwards, some of them went down?

MR. KIM: Well, he was with us when we were observing from afar, and then afterwards, he took us down to the site.

MR. MCCORMACK: Yeah, you all went down there, right?

MR. KIM: Yeah, we all went down.

QUESTION: Do you have an estimate – I’m sorry – you know, just how many North Korean engineer – how many engineers, North Koreans that were there?

MR. KIM: At the observation area?

QUESTION: Yeah, who were watching or anywhere around the --

MR. KIM: I mean, with us, there were probably seven or eight North Koreans. No, I don’t know how many were down at the site when they --

QUESTION: Right. Do you have – do you have – has there ever been an idea of how many people, actual North Koreans, work there and (inaudible), like when it was up and running?

MR. KIM: No, I don’t. I don’t have that number.

QUESTION: Weren’t there, like, ashes there when you went down there? I mean, you know --

MR. KIM: I mean, it’s what you would find of – when a huge concrete structure has been --

QUESTION: Like a building blown up?

QUESTION: We’ve seen it before. We’ve seen big concrete structures go (inaudible).

MR. MCCORMACK: All right.

MR. KIM: All right.

MR. MCCORMACK: Thanks, guys.

QUESTION: Thank you very much.

QUESTION: Thank you.

QUESTION: What are your – are you going to Beijing or are you going back to the States now?

MR. KIM: I’m going to get back. (Laughter.) We’ll see you.

QUESTION: Bye, thank you.

2008/T19-11