[NIFL-ESL:9476] RE: Illiteracy

From: Kevin Rocap (krocap@csulb.edu)
Date: Thu Sep 11 2003 - 04:36:09 EDT

Next message: SULEP@iespana.es: "[NIFL-ESL:9477] Tr:AGORA Conference reminder: Skills mismatches- Getting over it? EN, FR, DE, ES"
Previous message: Ken Taber: "[NIFL-ESL:9475] NCLB- Non-Regulatory Guidance of Titile 3- Feb. 2003"
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:36:09 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <3F603248.9020405@csulb.edu>
Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov
Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov
Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov
Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov
Precedence: bulk
From: Kevin Rocap <krocap@csulb.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9476] RE: Illiteracy
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Status: O
Content-Length: 33741
Lines: 1066

Dear Tanya,

A little late to the party but...

I would humbly submit that values and principles may be able to do more to unite us than languages and customs. I have many people I associate with whom I cannot communicate with except by virtue of linguistic and cultural mediation of trusted intermediaries or processes (neither I nor they are ghettoized by lack of a common language). Yet I feel greater connection and unity with such friends and colleagues than I do with many people of a right wing bent whose language I can perfectly well understand. ;-) Ultimately I have to get along with the right wing types as well, but, of course, that, again, stems out of an adherence to a democratic ethic and a validation of my own and others' common humanity. Arbitrarily enforcing a common, dominant language seems to me a feeble, unnecessary, ineffective and inevitably hurtful choice of strategy. Just a thought.

In Peace,
K.

ttweeton wrote:

" What
do you do as an adult with children of your own when you can't pass on the
"family" language?

I have run into this very situation. I cannot communicate with my relatives
in another country in their language. I try so hard to make and keep contact
but there are so many things I want to explain that I really can't.  Tha
language has been entirely lost in my family. entirely.  I am  so saddened
by this situation.

  "How do they converse with the older generations?"
They can't and I can't  either very well.


I "How is culture preserved when the language in which it was born is
silenced? "
This is really a very good  and serious question.

My question to all  of you  is , what should be a uniting factor in any
country?  If language will not unite us and Religion certainly will not
unite us , Food will not unite us,  Customs will not unite us because we all
have our own ,  What will?  What will happen when we begin to misunderstand
one another because we cannot communicate well?   Isn't that already
happening? Should the country try to preserve anything of its culture? What
should it be?  Will we end up living in our own little ghettos, all speaking
our own seperarte languages?   OR,  maybe the real question , instead should
be, What makes a country???
Tanya Tweeton
Adult ESOL
Fort Lauderdale, Florida



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Varshna Narumanchi-Jackson" <varshna@grandecom.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:21 PM
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9425] RE: Illiteracy

Your point assumes that either the child or the family wants English to be
the "first" language.  What is so great about having developed oracy in

your

"second"/"family" language when it isn't backed up by literacy?

Who wants to be an adult whose understanding of her "second"/"family"
language stopped at age 3?  How do you converse with your parents, with

your

grandparents (as has been my experience), with aunts, uncles, and other
relatives who are more comfortable speaking in the "family" language?

What

do you do as an adult with children of your own when you can't pass on the
"family" language?  How do they converse with the older generations?

How is culture preserved when the language in which it was born is

silenced?

on 9/5/03 12:51 PM, Susan Ryan at susanefl@hotmail.com wrote:

The whole point is for a toddler age, English would be his first

language!

Although we have many languages spoken in the U.S., English is the

defining

language and children born into it should be first language speakers in
English. The other lanuage (family language spoken) would be their

second

language. They will be bilingual in reverse of their parents'

generation.

Susan

From: "kate.diggins" <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us>
Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9421] RE: Illiteracy
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT)

On the other hand, childen need a rich first language.  Without that,

there

would be a lack of cognitive "hooks", metaphorically speaking, on which
to "hang" second language.

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Gustav Kocsis <gkocsis@sfccnm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9418] RE: Illiteracy

I so much agree.

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Ryan [mailto:susanefl@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 8:02 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9417] RE: Illiteracy

Sylvan, I found your information very interesting and surprising. I

would

have thought to start English with the toddlers class would be the
best way to create English fluency rather than waiitng until they
start school and come to it as a foreign language speaker. Susan

From: "Sylvan Rainwater" <sylvan@cccchs.org>
Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9401] RE: Illiteracy
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:34:43 -0400 (EDT)

Thanks for this excellent post. It is certainly true that when

children

don't get good early education, they are at a disadvantage,

regardless

of

what language they are trying to learn in. In the Head Start program

work

with, it's sometimes interesting to compare the immigrant kids with

the

Anglo kids here. The problems we are addressing are somewhat

different,

but

with all kids (and the adults in our Family Literacy Program), we

focus

on

literacy in developmentally appropriate ways.

With the Pre-K children we work with, language development needs to

be

primarily in the native language, gradually transitioning to more

English

as
time goes on. The 4-year-old classroom incorporates more English than

the

3-year-old classroom. The Infant/Toddler classroom tries to be
predominantly
Spanish-speaking. A good solid grounding in native language

development

is

the best foundation for learning English once children start school.

With Anglo kids, obviously literacy and language development are

equally

critical, and sometimes just as difficult. We serve special needs

children,

too, of course, with various diagnoses of speech and/or developmental
delays, and that requires special creativity and techniques on the

part

of

the teachers. We work with our Education Service District to get help

with

that. In addition, many of those kids are dealing with home

situations

that

are absolutely horrendous -- drugs, abuse of all sorts, neglect, as

well as

basic illiteracy on several levels. All of that has to be addressed

in

some

fashion, or nothing will change in the life of that child. You can

teach

them phonics all you want and send them off to kindergarten, and it

won't

help much.

With adults, no matter what language they speak, if they haven't had

thorough grounding in their native language -- in conversation,

grammar,

and/or literacy -- they are going to struggle with learning a new

language,

with basic job skills, and with figuring out how to teach their

children.

How can you ask a parent to read to a child, when the parent can't

read?

I completely agree that adult literacy is a crucial issue in this

country,

and I continue to maintain that the single best way to improve the
education
of the children is to improve the education of the parents,

especially

the

mother or primary caregiver.

-------
Sylvan Rainwater  mailto:sylvan@cccchs.org
Program Managaer Family Literacy
Clackamas Co. Children's Commission /  Head Start
Oregon City, OR  USA


-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ken

Taber

Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 5:49 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9390] Re: Accept English Only donation?

Albert et al,
The Pew Hispanic Research identifies the problem that Adult ESL

Programs

face in this country. It also confirms that it is actually easier to

teach

the foreign-born K-12 student than it is the adult. These

frustrations

lead

us to ask the ultimate question. How do we solve the problem? In

fact,

the

same is true for the American in this country that does not get a

good

early
education. Nationally, 22% of Americans are considered functionally
illiterate. That figure remains about the same. We used to have an
educational system that supported the industrial age where teaching

only

80%
was acceptable. Now that we have entered the information age and

their

are

less jobs in former industries, we must get near 100% literacy in

this

country. And of those 22%, and in some cities, that figure is much

higher,

only 5% of those needing adult education services actually receive

them.

The only answer the government has in more accountability but the

numbers

still have not changed. Even with a great title like the "No Child

Left

Behind Act," we are losing the battle of adult literacy in this

country.

The
problem as was pointed out by some is adult literacy, and not just

for

the

foreign-born, but for all Americans. There are American-born US

citizens

who
speak English only that are illiterate. We have become experts at

pointing

the finger. We have a lot of research. What we need are applicable
solutions.  We know the problems, they have not changed. Our current
solutions have not work.

I have made some observations that deal with what all teachers should

be

doing. Teachers need high expectations for all their students.

Teachers

also
need to know the how best to teach the diversity of students in their
classroom. This requires staff development. Sometimes, it is simply

the

case
of real research bang applied to an old problem.

I actually had a principal from another school that told me that

"Research

shows that English-Only programs (for LEP students) were better."

This

myth

has reached not only the some of the classrooms in my district but

has

reached its administration as well. These principals were sold a bill

of

goods from the English-Only Movement and are calling it research. The

fact

is the federal law allows for almost any program that can show

results.

However, it does not allow for an English Submersion Model, a sink or

swim

approach or dead end approach.

There are some states that interpret the federal law to mean that

they

can

run an English-Only Approach with no staff development of their

teachers.

When this principal made this comment, I asked whether this district

had an

English-Only Approach? The coordinator (with no ESOL training) who I

had

spoken to about the law said we have an Structured English Immersion
Approach which we didn't because this approach requires a highly

trained

staff. We may have had a Structured English Immersion Approach on

paper

but

we had an English-Only or English Submersion Approach in reality.

The SC State House tried to write a bill (H3703) last year limiting

LEP

instruction to only the first two years foreign-born students arrive

in

this
country and mandating a Sheltered English Immersion Approach. They

claimed

in their bill that English could be learned fast. Sheltered English
Immersion is perhaps the least recommended approach but also the

least

costly. The only good part of the bill was that the state actually

realized

that it had a constitutional duty to teach these students. The bill

never

made it out of the SC House but it was interesting to see how

legislatures

don't understand the real problem or the legal history of LEP

programs

but

most of all they do not understand that English-Only laws may be a

civil

rights violation in an educational setting.

Ken Taber
kentaber@inetgenesis.com

_________________________________________________________________
Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today!
https://broadband.msn.com

------- End of Original Message -------

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage.
http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

Next message: SULEP@iespana.es: "[NIFL-ESL:9477] Tr:AGORA Conference reminder: Skills mismatches- Getting over it? EN, FR, DE, ES"
Previous message: Ken Taber: "[NIFL-ESL:9475] NCLB- Non-Regulatory Guidance of Titile 3- Feb. 2003"
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Mar 11 2004 - 12:16:26 EST