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From: Antje Meissner <antjemeissner@yahoo.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9442] RE: Illiteracy
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Tanya,
I like your questions.
I came to this country from Germany three years ago
and worked with immigrants in my country for many
years before. In my mind immigrants are a good mirror
for the "culture" and "idea" of a country, and I
learned an interesting thing from the immigrants I
work with here and there:
In Germany, the "uniting" factor of the country is the
language and the ethnicity. Immigrants often have a
hard time feeling at home, because no matter how hard
they try, if they look differently, dress differently,
eat differently, even if they speak the language, they
will never be fully accepted. So many immigrants move
to Germany to find a job and make some money and keep
dreaming of returning home to their countries one day.
When I came here, I was certain immigrants here would
feel the same way. But the students in my program in
Tallahassee feel very different: They love America,
that is, the "idea" of America. For them America is
not an ethnicity, a language, a place to make some
money in, but it is often the promise of a better
life, a better future for their children, a hope for
counting as an individual and not fall prey to
dictators, wars, famines etc. Now, a lot of these
people work in menial jobs, are exploited, poor and
struggle, but this is their hope and their reason for
being here.
I believe strongly that the "idea" of what a country
wants to be can "unify" that country and mankind as a
whole. A mutual respect for each others struggles, a
helping hand from those who already have a lot to
those are trying to get there, and even though "love"
sounds like a strong word for a German ( for us "like"
is about as emotional as we can be, but after three
years I "americanize" more and more), I think Ken has
a point.
I even believe that this is a lesson Europe has to
learn and maybe maybe maybe .... America could lead?
I hope this makes sense. My written English is often
not that great.
Antje Meissner
--- ttweeton <ttweeton@comcast.net> wrote:
> " What
> do you do as an adult with children of your own when
> you can't pass on the
> "family" language?
>
> I have run into this very situation. I cannot
> communicate with my relatives
> in another country in their language. I try so hard
> to make and keep contact
> but there are so many things I want to explain that
> I really can't. Tha
> language has been entirely lost in my family.
> entirely. I am so saddened
> by this situation.
>
> "How do they converse with the older generations?"
> They can't and I can't either very well.
>
>
> I "How is culture preserved when the language in
> which it was born is
> silenced? "
> This is really a very good and serious question.
>
> My question to all of you is , what should be a
> uniting factor in any
> country? If language will not unite us and Religion
> certainly will not
> unite us , Food will not unite us, Customs will not
> unite us because we all
> have our own , What will? What will happen when we
> begin to misunderstand
> one another because we cannot communicate well?
> Isn't that already
> happening? Should the country try to preserve
> anything of its culture? What
> should it be? Will we end up living in our own
> little ghettos, all speaking
> our own seperarte languages? OR, maybe the real
> question , instead should
> be, What makes a country???
> Tanya Tweeton
> Adult ESOL
> Fort Lauderdale, Florida
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Varshna Narumanchi-Jackson"
> <varshna@grandecom.net>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list"
> <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:21 PM
> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9425] RE: Illiteracy
>
>
> > Your point assumes that either the child or the
> family wants English to be
> > the "first" language. What is so great about
> having developed oracy in
> your
> > "second"/"family" language when it isn't backed up
> by literacy?
> >
> > Who wants to be an adult whose understanding of
> her "second"/"family"
> > language stopped at age 3? How do you converse
> with your parents, with
> your
> > grandparents (as has been my experience), with
> aunts, uncles, and other
> > relatives who are more comfortable speaking in the
> "family" language?
> What
> > do you do as an adult with children of your own
> when you can't pass on the
> > "family" language? How do they converse with the
> older generations?
> >
> > How is culture preserved when the language in
> which it was born is
> silenced?
> >
> >
> >
> > on 9/5/03 12:51 PM, Susan Ryan at
> susanefl@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > The whole point is for a toddler age, English
> would be his first
> language!
> > > Although we have many languages spoken in the
> U.S., English is the
> defining
> > > language and children born into it should be
> first language speakers in
> > > English. The other lanuage (family language
> spoken) would be their
> second
> > > language. They will be bilingual in reverse of
> their parents'
> generation.
> > > Susan
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: "kate.diggins"
> <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us>
> > >> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov
> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list
> <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
> > >> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9421] RE: Illiteracy
> > >> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT)
> > >>
> > >> On the other hand, childen need a rich first
> language. Without that,
> there
> > >> would be a lack of cognitive "hooks",
> metaphorically speaking, on which
> > >> to "hang" second language.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------- Original Message -----------
> > >> From: Gustav Kocsis <gkocsis@sfccnm.edu>
> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list
> <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
> > >> Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT)
> > >> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9418] RE: Illiteracy
> > >>
> > >>> I so much agree.
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Susan Ryan [mailto:susanefl@hotmail.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: Multiple recipients of list
> > >>> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9417] RE: Illiteracy
> > >>>
> > >>> Sylvan, I found your information very
> interesting and surprising. I
> > >> would
> > >>> have thought to start English with the
> toddlers class would be the
> > >>> best way to create English fluency rather than
> waiitng until they
> > >>> start school and come to it as a foreign
> language speaker. Susan
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: "Sylvan Rainwater" <sylvan@cccchs.org>
> > >>>> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov
> > >>>> To: Multiple recipients of list
> <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
> > >>>> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9401] RE: Illiteracy
> > >>>> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:34:43 -0400 (EDT)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks for this excellent post. It is
> certainly true that when
> children
> > >>>> don't get good early education, they are at a
> disadvantage,
> regardless
> > >> of
> > >>>> what language they are trying to learn in. In
> the Head Start program
> I
> > >> work
> > >>>> with, it's sometimes interesting to compare
> the immigrant kids with
> the
> > >>>> Anglo kids here. The problems we are
> addressing are somewhat
> different,
> > >> but
> > >>>> with all kids (and the adults in our Family
> Literacy Program), we
> focus
> > >> on
> > >>>> literacy in developmentally appropriate ways.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> With the Pre-K children we work with,
> language development needs to
> be
> > >>>> primarily in the native language, gradually
> transitioning to more
> > >> English
> > >>>> as
> > >>>> time goes on. The 4-year-old classroom
> incorporates more English than
> > >> the
> > >>>> 3-year-old classroom. The Infant/Toddler
> classroom tries to be
> > >>>> predominantly
> > >>>> Spanish-speaking. A good solid grounding in
> native language
> development
> > >> is
> > >>>> the best foundation for learning English once
> children start school.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> With Anglo kids, obviously literacy and
> language development are
> > >> equally
>
=== message truncated ===
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