Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h859e5720696; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 05:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 05:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2F054A8C.448862BD.0004C68E@aol.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: HthKar@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9415] Re: Accept English Only donation? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Status: O Content-Length: 4091 Lines: 21 Colleagues I think you are going to get your knuckles rapped if you aren't careful. I understand that a number of US writers seem to 'blame' Europe for the Nazi holocaust. There are lots of us who fought against it, or whose parents did and worked against the 'Blackshirts' before the war too. Perhaps I ought to make it clear too that in Europe we are working towards a common labour market so that nationals of one European country can work in other countries. This marks a significant difference from the US. We ought to be getting used to being more multi-lingual than we are. One can take public examinations in a number of languages used in England by 'minority' groups. Urdu springs to mind. Historically, we seem to have begun universal state education some time before the US - beginning roughly if I recall my O Level history correctly in 1870 or 71 with Forster's Education Act, which seems to have had some sort of racial discrimination in its education system for its own people until well into the twentieth century, and this makes a difference to the way that people coming here from abroad have experienced things as compared with the US??? I always understood that one reason behind the move to universal state education was a desire for a population who could be made into an efficient army brought about by military near-scrapes, so if you ever read any academics saying that the UK only began to think about adult literacy in the 1970s take it with a pinch of salt. I think, but I am not sure, that I read about this in a very interesting book by a chap called E.P. Thompson, or Thomson. My personal view is that in England we lost more people through emigration in the late twentieth century than we gained. Further, though immigration came to be linked with black and Asian communities, there has been much 'white' immigration of people from places like the former Rhodesia and South Africa, but this tends to be much less visible or remarked upon, though one or two (by no means all, I have met people who worked hard against Apardheid) of these people that I have met brought with them attitudes to race that I would not wish to see spread in my country. One can only sympathise with many stories told by refugees: the story of Palestine is particularly moving at present. Lightening the tone, and linking with another thread about idions, Andres wrote 'chap my but'. I am unfamiliar with this idiom, which seems to be an example of the United States dialect. I know because a nice person on the list explained it to me before that 'but' is American for 'bottom', a word which a visiting literacy speaker from the US noticeably pronounced as 'baddam' every time he said it (which links with phonics threads), and that it is short for 'buttocks', a word which few English people use, in my experience. People seemed unsure of whether one could speak in the USA of 'kicking but'. A 'chap' in English is an adult male person. I suppose Andreas is using it in a different sense, meaning 'chafe' or 'irritate'? Is this usage considered 'U'? Could one use it with confidence in addressing a visting literacy expert from the USA, for example? In the UK we use a phrase which might translate as 'my but' to express disbelief. Is there a parallel in the US? We also use a phrase which might translate as 'I can't be butted' which would mean 'I do not have the inclination or energy at this moment.' Again, is there a parallel? And another, which indicates physical or mental confusion: 'But over....' I had better say.. 'bosum'. (Also base over apex, a similar metaphor) Where I come from ( on the North South English linguistic dividing line, I read in clever books by linguists), and perhaps elsewhere too, there is a phrase 'open butted' which refers to a person who leaves doors open behind them. A 'smart but' is a person who knows a lot; this actually sounds US to me; I think this is because I associate the SMART targets we are all supposed to live our lives by with US management speak. Any more from anyone? Sincerely Karen
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