[NIFL-ESL:8717] RE: Re: oil and war

From: John Kamplain (john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org)
Date: Mon Mar 03 2003 - 13:45:09 EST


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From: "John Kamplain" <john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org>
To: <nifl-esl@nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8717] RE: Re: oil and war
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:45:09 -0600
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and if this "impending" war was only about oil, we would've already taken
Iraq.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Lisa
> Pierce
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:34 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8709] Re: oil and war
>
>
> I would advise against teaching students (and spreading around in
> general)
> hearsay that has no factual basis.
> The potential for war is about weapons vs. oil but it is not to prevent a
> deterrent to American intervention.  If that were the case we would be at
> war with every nation.
>
> This is all getting very tiresome (this exchange of charged opinions
> without factual base and with no helpful ideas for classroom use).  I
> appreciate your question Marlene.  I hope others form the list
> will provide
> useful information and ideas.  both the US and Iraq are in a difficult
> place.  They both risk losing power by backing down from their current
> stances.  Power is made up in a large part by perception.  Saddam doesn't
> have as much power as he would like and more than the US would like.  The
> question for Saddam is how he can keep his current level of
> perceived power
> and avoid war.  The question for the US and other UN nations, is how can
> they ensure that Saddam does not keep and build weapons of mass
> destruction
> (that would threaten the stability of the region and the safety of many)
> without war.  You might have a class discussion on issues of power
> (international or local):  what is power?  how does one gain
> power?  What's
> an appropriate use of power?
>
> Lisa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Ken Todd [SMTP:kentodd@UDel.Edu]
> Sent:	Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:34 AM
> To:	Multiple recipients of list
> Subject:	[NIFL-ESL:8690] Re: dynamics of this list
>
> The question of oil concerns long term strategic control rather than
> immediate prices. A government with control over state-owned oil
> resources could withhold those supplies as a means to securing its own
> national interests. Privatized oil (an unspoken but safe to assume
> long-term US/EU/Japan goal) in a country with a client government
> guarantees uninterrupted supplies as well as a greater U.S./EU/Japan
> influence on levels of production/price.
> Of course, interests not solely derived from oil figure largely in the
> prosecution of this war, but they do not seem to me to lend themselves
> to a pro-American argument. The military strategy document prepared by
> experts from Bush's political circle before he was elected twice
> explicitly addresses the need to invade Iraq. It proposes one, and only
> one, reason. The development of Iraqi weapons (please note, not the
> weapons it currently has) would provide a deterrent to American
> intervention in the region. Thus, the war aims to enforce the general
> principle that no country has the right to means of defense against
> American intervention. (Please remember, this claim comes directly from
> the Bush document. If anyone finds it distasteful, direct your comments
> to the president, not to me). Of course, the choice of a site on which
> to demonstrate this principle is heavily influenced by the presence
> there of massive oil reserves.
>
> marlene smith wrote:
> >
> > Actually, I was hoping to get some Pro-American stuff
> > on this list.  I haven't seen any yet.
> >
> > Part of my mandate is 'settlement' and Anti-American
> > sentiment based on untruths is not conducive to a
> > 'happy' life in Canada.
> >
> > So far I have been able to supply facts which cause
> > these students to rethink their negative attitudes but
> > I do not have the knowledge I should to answer the
> > 'oil' issue some Arabic students keep bringing up.
> >
> > How could it be about oil?  Aren't the prices fixed
> > and what would bombing do for oil except increases our
> > prices as just the talk of it has already
> > significantly done so in Canada?
> >
> > Isn't is part of our responsibility to attempt to
> > diffuse potentially dangerous hatreds or at least not
> > add fuel to the fire?
> >
> > Marlene Smith
> > ESL Teacher
> > Ontario, Canada
> >
> > --- Charles Jannuzi <b_rieux@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > It is regrettable that any attempt to discuss
> > > serious issues with political and social
> > > implications are censored on this
> > > list--censorship arising from the concerns of a
> > > handful of conservative and religious crybabies.
> > > It is hypocritical of the list owner and
> > > moderator to criticize anyone for substantive but
> > > challenging posts, when all such criticism does
> > > is cater to the very clique that has constantly
> > > initiated the personal attacks. In short, this
> > > list is now a repressive wasteland, like much of
> > > the political and social climate of the current
> > > US.
> > >
> > > Charles Jannuzi
> > > Fukui, Japan
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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