Received: from mailhost.chi1.ameritech.net (mailhost1-chcgil.chcgil.ameritech.net [206.141.192.67]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h23IgvP25881 for <nifl-esl@nifl.gov>; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:42:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from LabK ([67.38.127.158]) by mailhost.chi1.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20030303184258.XCCU9465.mailhost.chi1.ameritech.net@LabK> for <nifl-esl@nifl.gov>; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:42:58 -0600 From: "John Kamplain" <john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org> To: <nifl-esl@nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8717] RE: Re: oil and war Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:45:09 -0600 Message-ID: <FLEIJPFJGNEBFCGDMABPAEGKCEAA.john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <01C2E171.7C3690A0.ldpierce@emlc.org> Status: O Content-Length: 5228 Lines: 124 and if this "impending" war was only about oil, we would've already taken Iraq. > -----Original Message----- > From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Lisa > Pierce > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:34 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8709] Re: oil and war > > > I would advise against teaching students (and spreading around in > general) > hearsay that has no factual basis. > The potential for war is about weapons vs. oil but it is not to prevent a > deterrent to American intervention. If that were the case we would be at > war with every nation. > > This is all getting very tiresome (this exchange of charged opinions > without factual base and with no helpful ideas for classroom use). I > appreciate your question Marlene. I hope others form the list > will provide > useful information and ideas. both the US and Iraq are in a difficult > place. They both risk losing power by backing down from their current > stances. Power is made up in a large part by perception. Saddam doesn't > have as much power as he would like and more than the US would like. The > question for Saddam is how he can keep his current level of > perceived power > and avoid war. The question for the US and other UN nations, is how can > they ensure that Saddam does not keep and build weapons of mass > destruction > (that would threaten the stability of the region and the safety of many) > without war. You might have a class discussion on issues of power > (international or local): what is power? how does one gain > power? What's > an appropriate use of power? > > Lisa > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Todd [SMTP:kentodd@UDel.Edu] > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:34 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8690] Re: dynamics of this list > > The question of oil concerns long term strategic control rather than > immediate prices. A government with control over state-owned oil > resources could withhold those supplies as a means to securing its own > national interests. Privatized oil (an unspoken but safe to assume > long-term US/EU/Japan goal) in a country with a client government > guarantees uninterrupted supplies as well as a greater U.S./EU/Japan > influence on levels of production/price. > Of course, interests not solely derived from oil figure largely in the > prosecution of this war, but they do not seem to me to lend themselves > to a pro-American argument. The military strategy document prepared by > experts from Bush's political circle before he was elected twice > explicitly addresses the need to invade Iraq. It proposes one, and only > one, reason. The development of Iraqi weapons (please note, not the > weapons it currently has) would provide a deterrent to American > intervention in the region. Thus, the war aims to enforce the general > principle that no country has the right to means of defense against > American intervention. (Please remember, this claim comes directly from > the Bush document. If anyone finds it distasteful, direct your comments > to the president, not to me). Of course, the choice of a site on which > to demonstrate this principle is heavily influenced by the presence > there of massive oil reserves. > > marlene smith wrote: > > > > Actually, I was hoping to get some Pro-American stuff > > on this list. I haven't seen any yet. > > > > Part of my mandate is 'settlement' and Anti-American > > sentiment based on untruths is not conducive to a > > 'happy' life in Canada. > > > > So far I have been able to supply facts which cause > > these students to rethink their negative attitudes but > > I do not have the knowledge I should to answer the > > 'oil' issue some Arabic students keep bringing up. > > > > How could it be about oil? Aren't the prices fixed > > and what would bombing do for oil except increases our > > prices as just the talk of it has already > > significantly done so in Canada? > > > > Isn't is part of our responsibility to attempt to > > diffuse potentially dangerous hatreds or at least not > > add fuel to the fire? > > > > Marlene Smith > > ESL Teacher > > Ontario, Canada > > > > --- Charles Jannuzi <b_rieux@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > It is regrettable that any attempt to discuss > > > serious issues with political and social > > > implications are censored on this > > > list--censorship arising from the concerns of a > > > handful of conservative and religious crybabies. > > > It is hypocritical of the list owner and > > > moderator to criticize anyone for substantive but > > > challenging posts, when all such criticism does > > > is cater to the very clique that has constantly > > > initiated the personal attacks. In short, this > > > list is now a repressive wasteland, like much of > > > the political and social climate of the current > > > US. > > > > > > Charles Jannuzi > > > Fukui, Japan > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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