[NIFL-WOMENLIT:652] Re: Men's involvement

From: nonesuch@mala.bc.ca
Date: Tue Apr 11 2000 - 12:33:47 EDT


Return-Path: <nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov>
Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta5/980425bjb) with SMTP id MAA06625; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:33:47 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:33:47 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <01JO3SAG6R169H1SBZ@mala.bc.ca>
Errors-To: alcrsb@langate.gsu.edu
Reply-To: nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov
Originator: nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov
Sender: nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov
Precedence: bulk
From: nonesuch@mala.bc.ca
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-womenlit@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-WOMENLIT:652] Re: Men's involvement
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Status: OR

I missed the beginning of this discussion; however, I come back to 
the question "what is normal?"  It seems unlikely that it is ever 
normal for women to discuss being battered in a mixed group of 
men and women.   I am reminded of an ESL program we had here 
for students from Japan.  For several years, only young women 
came, all from the same all-female schools in Japan.  A 
component of music and singing was developed as part of the ESL 
program.  One year a few young men were added to the course, 
and the singing was dropped, because it was thought they wouldn't 
like to sing.  It seems "normal" in that case was what males liked 
to do, not females.

When I was editing Making Connections I had long talks with the 
woman who wrote the chapter on safer sex.  She was adamant 
that her material be used with women only.  The chapter talked 
about women having some control over their sex life, refusing sex if 
possible when the man refused to wear a condom, and women 
being generally assertive around sexual issues.  The author of the 
chapter said that if you want to get men to practice safer sex, you 
do not talk about women having rights; instead you talk about their 
self-interest.  As well, it may be unsafe for women to talk 
assertively about sex in a mixed class when they have to leave the 
class but continue in contact with those same men outside the 
class.



At 10:18 AM 4/6/2000 -0400, Ansongreen@aol.com wrote:
<SNIP>
>Creating  "women only" topics seems really detrimental to the
>construction
of a sense of "normalcy" for learners, especially learners who feel
silenced or disenfranchised by violence (Be it physical abuse or 
abusive
systems.) Polarizing "us and them" "mixed classroom/ women's 
classroom"
seems to make sense at first, but is this really creating a normal
environment for learners to work with the issues?  <SNIP>


This discussion has been interesting because it echoes those of 
years ago
about separatism in the lesbian community. People went around 
and around
about it, for many of the same reasons we've been talking about here --
that need to explore power imbalances in a safe space, men automatically
taking over leadership roles in mostly- or formerly-all-women
organizations, and the sense that creating a separate organization is
somehow reverse sexism or whatever.

I taught for a while in an introductory women's studies classroom at a
university. We were unable to officially specify that it be a women-only
class, but strongly suggested to any men who applied to take the class
that they avail themselves of other classes in the department and leave
this one to be women-only. The first semester I taught there was a man in
the class, who refused to be dissuaded, and there were many aspects of the
class that just didn't work as well as the other two classes I taught that
were women-only. There is something about a women-only environment, which
many of these students had never experienced, that gives insights into
what we deal with most of the time in a mixed environment. There is a
safety to it that is illuminating of the danger we usually live in.

Having said that, I agree that a "xxx"-only environment is not "normal."
That is, it doesn't reflect the realities that we have to deal with in our
daily lives. But many different kinds of groups have found advantages in
coming together in what we used to call a separatist manner for a specific
time and purpose -- people of various racial groups, for example, and
definitely women. The women-only consciousness-raising groups set off the
women's liberation movement, and created powerful knowledge for many of us
'way back then. A separatist group can give powerful insights that lead to
strong and useful action for change.

I believe that we do have to find ways to work together on issues of
violence. I welcome men's voices and work. But know that there are times
and places where it makes sense to have women-only spaces. Women at
particular times, especially right after suffering violation, may not be
up to the challenge of dealing with men at all for a while. That needs to
be respected. Women's anger at violence, which is sometimes directed
against all men, needs to be accepted, even as we continue to work for a
more balanced point of view.

These issues are difficult and emotional. We are all in process. At
various points in the process, different strategies may make sense. We are
all doing the best we can. Let's support each other and respect our
different ways of dealing with a common problem.

Sylvan Rainwater  .  Portland, OR USA  .  sylrain@teleport.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The future masters of technology will have to be lighthearted and
intelligent. The machine easily masters the grim and the dumb." --Marshall
McCluhan, 1969

Kate Nonesuch
Literacy Co-ordinator
Reading and Writing Centre
Malaspina University-College
222 Cowichan Way
Duncan, BC
V9L 6P4

Phone:  (250)715-1420
Fax:  (250) 746-3563



This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Tue Jan 16 2001 - 14:46:36 EST