Ujwala--

We're probably keeping men out.  Also, women are devalued, so going to 
a woman's conference would I think be seen as slightly icky and 
crossing a line..  Hard to say this, but I think this is true.

Also,  as women we tend to pull into shells in "mixed" situations.

There are MEN on this list, so maybe they will speak up--THANKS SAMUEL 
for asking your question!  You kind of opened a floodgate!!

Andrea



On Mar 24, 2006, at 9:57 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:


> Andrea,

>

> I have been thinking about something. Are conferences

> with Women in the title perceived as different and

> exclusive? I am sure all the men on this listserv work

> with women and have research issues etc with women.

> Why then do we see such few men at conferences that

> look at one half of the population? Are we (as

> women)keeping men's participation out when we organise

> such conferences? Are we deliberately maintaining the

> distance?

>

> We see men at conferences with "Family Literacy",

> "Children's literacy" etc in the title....

>

> Just curious...

> Regards,

> Ujwala

>

> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>

>> Ujwala and Samuel--

>>

>> I thought about this topic deeply yesterday.  I am

>> so glad that Ujwala

>> has said what she said, otherwise I'm like a voice

>> crying in the

>> wilderness, as scripture would have it.

>>

>> The language is different and meanings are

>> understood differently by

>> men and women. The "presentation of self" is

>> different.

>>

>> I'm usually on the emotional/analytic side of

>> discussions, and this is

>> a different female way of responding in discussions.

>>  My impression is

>> that the standard mode of discussion as experienced

>> by men, and as put

>> forward in psychology  textbooks, is for

>> emotions/analysis to be put

>> at two ends of a spectrum.  Men and women are then

>> placed somewhere on

>> this line.

>>

>> I have often/many times/some times been thought of

>> as overly emotional

>> and consequently not listened to by men.   True

>> story.  That male way

>> of listening lost me a bundle of money once..  The

>> lawyer didn't listen

>> to me, was surprised by an outcome, and had to admit

>> he had been wrong.

>>    This has happened also on NIFL list servs.  It's

>> DEEPLY DEEPLY

>> STUPID, especially in a field with many women, not

>> to access women's

>> way of seeing, observing, and concluding.  I was

>> once ridiculed for

>> this by a man, and I had to deck him, verbally, to

>> get him to listen to

>> me.  Fortunately, neither a job nor money nor

>> romance  hinged on this

>> encounter.

>>

>> I just looked for an article(Chronicle of Higher Ed)

>> about Laurel

>> Ulrich, 67, a history scholar and now a university

>> professor at

>> Harvard--the top place  in Harvard's academic

>> hierarchy.  She is

>> married, has 5 children and  grandchildren.  She

>> speaks as a woman,

>> illustrating how by following a woman's way she made

>> it to the top of

>> the heap at the University just down the street from

>> me. Example:  she

>> took her  dissertation topic from the surrounding

>> countryside of New

>> Hampshire, because she didn't want to be away from

>> her children.   On

>> one of my trips around the neighborhood I saw where

>> she and her husband

>> live, and I will write her a letter.  Believe, me,

>> she will immediately

>> be asked for speeches on the  women's lecture

>> circuit.

>>

>> That's enough for now.  Thanks, Ujwala, and thanks

>> Samuel.

>>

>> Andrea

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> On Mar 24, 2006, at 2:59 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

>>

>>> Andrea and Samuel,

>>>

>>> I agree with what Andrea says.

>>>

>>> 1. It's not even looking for men's attention, but

>> more

>>> than that the 'space' is more evenly distributed.

>> In a

>>> mixed/male-directed conference, floor space is

>> often

>>> taken over by men. And since adult education has a

>> lot

>>> of male gurus, women's space is clearly

>> delineated.

>>>

>>> 2. Very few true 'minglers' are organised. The

>> evening

>>> drinks and cheese receptions are so outdated and

>> de

>>> passe, that I end up trying to organise something

>>> myself which involves meeting people I want to

>> meet

>>> and talk to. It is always a pleasure to meet and

>> talk

>>> to people one knows as names on the various

>> listservs.

>>> Our field is dwindling even if the need for our

>> work

>>> is on the rise, and the better we know our

>> colleagues

>>> (male and female), the better for the longevity of

>> our

>>> profession and our learners.

>>>

>>> 3. Even the kind of food served is different. When

>> we

>>> had a female president of an organisation in NJ

>> whose

>>> board I was on organised lunch we could tell the

>>> difference: The meat heavy or premade sandwiches

>> were

>>> gone. In their place was a smaller, but nicer

>>> selection of hot and cold platters to choose from

>> and

>>> vegetables and fruit were not mere garnishes or an

>>> unrecognisable green mass to be sidelined. Over

>> food,

>>> people actually find the time to sit down and talk

>> to

>>> their colleagues and find out what is happenening

>> in

>>> the field. In the case of We Learn, such mingling

>> and

>>> catching up with old friends was encouraged and

>> space

>>> was provided to do just that. Most times our

>>> conferences are packed (as We Learn was) and the

>>> inclusion of such time was invaluable.

>>>

>>> 3. I think more of us (men and women) ought to

>> attend

>>> We Learn, they would enjoy it and see a different

>> sort

>>> of conference, one on which future (and larger)

>>> conferences could be modelled. The only other

>> meeting

>>> that came close to We Learn was one organised in

>>> Portland.

>>>

>>> 4. There were some 'greats' there at last year's

>>> conference. And despite that, there was less/no

>> top

>>> down hierarchy one sees when conferences are

>>> male-focused.

>>>

>>> 5. Another important point: the serious inclusion

>> of

>>> adult learners. As someone pointed out, We Learn

>>> includes adult learners. I've made this point

>> before

>>> that we tend to now pay lip service to our adult

>>> learners. We either romanticise them or distance

>> them.

>>> We do not really listen to them. And a lot of it

>> is

>>> because of the circumstances our field is in:

>> policy

>>> dictates it, funding demands it. At We Learn,

>> awards

>>> were not important: their voices and opinions

>> were.

>>>

>>> These are my impressions from last year and which

>> is

>>> why I regret having missed it this year. Just to

>> be

>>> clear, this was not a wishy washy, coffee klatch

>>> conference. I'd recommend more people attend it to

>>> find out.

>>>

>>> Warm regards,

>>> Ujwala

>>>

>>> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Wow, Samuel, that's a hard one!

>>>>

>>>> I bet an all male conference would seem

>> different,

>>>> too--let's trade

>>>> observations

>>>>

>>>> OK--female conference-others chime in.

>>>>

>>>> 1)	flowers, music, food

>>>> 2)	A sense of being sisters--there are givens

>> that

>>>> we all share, so

>>>> laughter can be shared laughter.  Mothers  and

>> their

>>

> === message truncated ===

>

>

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