i want to add a note, too.

It is possible for me to say about my hospitalized friend, "Oh, he is 
low on serotonin."  That is not going to get me anywhere.  How come he 
got low on serotonin?  How does  this manifest in his behavior?  What 
triggered this?

This is where talk therapy comes in;  the chemicals can't do it all.  
The doc can listen to what is said, which will contain indications  of  
the medical problem.

In the classroom, I think writing is close to this;  also, working with 
others to crate a good environment--I'll try to find the reference for 
this.

Andrea
On Sep 2, 2006, at 11:53 PM, Ryan Hall wrote:


> It's just a coincidence that I am able to give the author of this 

> book, but

> here it is for those of you who are interested- "The Drama of the 

> Gifted

> Child: The Search for the True Self" was written by Alice Miller.

> Ryan

>

>

> On 9/2/06 9:47 PM, "Bonnita Solberg" <bdsunmt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>

>> Your statement is right on Shirley; bio-chemical

>> explanations often elicit simplistic explanations for

>> complicated processes.   It would seem logicial that

>> methods employed to reverse negative experiences

>> embedded in our body chemistry would take as many

>> years to reverse as there were years of the

>> experience, absent a traumatic interruption of the

>> neuro net such as brain injury or outside chemical

>> intervention.  The best we can do I think is to

>> provide a safe space for all our students, not knowing

>> to what degree they may or may not have been abused.

>> "The Drama of the Gifted Child" speaks of abuse in a

>> more global sense than physical, sexual or mental

>> abuse and may be of interest to the members of this

>> list. Sorry I can't remember the author.   Bonnita

>>

>> --- sjrhodes at tampabay.rr.com wrote:

>>

>>> Thank you for your posting, Bonnita - This makes a

>>> lot of sense to me, especially with new research out

>>> on mediation/stress reduction methods and

>>> documenting our changing of neurological brain

>>> patterns - so, by practicing positive thinking,

>>> releasing the painful memories, reducing stress and

>>> taking care of ourselves, e.g. proper nutrition,

>>> exercise, etc. etc. = Fine-tuning??

>>> Why does this sound too easy?  Yes, I think I get

>>> it, and I guess that's where we are right now, in

>>> the context of the discussion, and in our own lives.

>>>  Don't most of you think that by providing basic

>>> needs and support is a way to break down the long

>>> term process to promote learning, is somewhat up to

>>> the provider of the instruction to give the learner

>>> environment a "safe" place that is free of abuse and

>>> discussion regarding such?

>>> That's what I think, anyway.  I do believe that

>>> keeping ourselves healthy is key, however, if a

>>> trauma victim is "obsessing" and unable to release

>>> themselves from the "biochemical component of abuse"

>>> then that is what 'other' professionals and / or

>>> services provide, and we can make these known and

>>> update our resources by providing a network of

>>> community services - as ESL teachers or volunteers,

>>> we really may not know how deep the pain is that we

>>> are dealing with and are we equipped to step into

>>> deeper waters?

>>> Maybe by our own example as mentors throughout the

>>> learning process, our students will try to increase

>>> their own well-being, learning, living, overcoming

>>> barriers added on by abuse issues, and succeeding to

>>> overcome victimization, or at least vicariously

>>> begin to "get it" and change their lives for the

>>> better.

>>> Shirley

>>>

>>>  Original Message -----

>>> From: Bonnita Solberg <bdsunmt at sbcglobal.net>

>>> Date: Saturday, September 2, 2006 2:37 pm

>>> Subject: [WomenLiteracy 532] Re: the other

>>> To: The Women and Literacy Discussion List

>>> <womenliteracy at nifl.gov>

>>>

>>>> Hope I am not too late to jump in here. Concerning

>>> the

>>>> biochemical component of abuse, physiology tells

>>> us

>>>> that nerve cells that fire together, wire

>>> together.

>>>> If you practice something over and over again, or

>>>> experience something over and over again, a

>>> connection

>>>> of nerve cells is built up: the cells have a long

>>> term

>>>> relationship. Long term cell relationships build

>>>> cells to form a nerve identity. This neuron "net"

>>> is

>>>> rewired on a daily basis. Break down the long term

>>>

>>>> cell relationship by interrupting the thought

>>> process,

>>>> and the nueron net is rewired. Interrupt a thought

>>>

>>>> process and it produces a chemical effect or

>>> reaction

>>>> that is different than the chemical effect or

>>> reaction

>>>> of the long term cell relationship or nerve

>>> identity.

>>>> In essence, nerve cells that don?t fire together,

>>>> don?t wire together.

>>>>

>>>> If you get angry on a daily basis, that anger

>>> neuro

>>>> net has a long term cell relationship with all

>>> other

>>>> neuro nets. If one experiences abuse on a daily

>>>> basis, that experience forms a long term cell

>>>> relationship, a net. Emotions reinforce chemically

>>>

>>>> the long term cell relationship, the cellular long

>>>

>>>> term memory. If we bombard the same cell with the

>>>> same attitude and the same chemistry over and

>>> over,

>>>> when the cell divides and produces a sister cells,

>>>

>>>> that sister cell will have more receptor sites for

>>>

>>>> those particular emotional chemicals and fewer

>>>> receptors for vitamins, minerals, food exchange or

>>>

>>>> release of toxins and waste. Hence one aspect of

>>> the

>>>> "stress syndrome."

>>>>

>>>> Rewiring the brain in this sense means to

>>> literally

>>>> reconnect the neurons in the net. Change the mind,

>>>

>>>> change one's choices. These chemical hanges are

>>> from

>>>> inside out. This is one aspect of the human drama

>>>> each of us deals with in abusive situations.

>>>> Bonnita Solberg

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Friends--

>>>>>

>>>>> I have been on vacation and am now back. I've

>>>>> missed a lot, so need

>>>>> to catch up. Apologies if i am repeating

>>> something

>>>>> someone else has

>>>>> said

>>>>>

>>>>> The idea of abuse on a continuum might work,,

>>>>> depending on what the

>>>>> continuum is labeled, eg, modertate severe, not

>>> at

>>>>> all...perhaps using

>>>>> percentages.

>>>>>

>>>>> However, there is another dimension, and that is

>>>

>>>>> when abuse changes

>>>>> the person biochemically; that's a big jump.

>>>>>

>>>>> Because we are used (through social science

>>> lingo)

>>>>> to thinking of

>>>>> "variables," we are used to thinking in terms of

>>>

>>>>> "add-ons," and the

>>>>> core self remaining the same. In extreme abuse

>>> the

>>>>> person, what we

>>>>> might think of as "core self," is changed.

>>>>>

>>>>> Andrea

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Daphne Greenberg

>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Ryan and Andres raise very good points. I

>>> wonder

>>>>> what would happen if

>>>>>> we

>>>>>> think of all of this as a continuum and

>>> therefore,

>>>>> realize that we have

>>>>>> all been survivors of some kind of abuse and

>>> have

>>>>> all perpetrated some

>>>>>> kind of abuse. For example, many of us as

>>> children

>>>>> have been "picked

>>>>>> on"

>>>>>> and have done our share of "picking on others"

>>>

>>>>>> What would happen if we stopped thinking of

>>>>> survivors and perps as "the

>>>>>> other" and realize that some of that resides

>>> in

>>>>> each one of us? Would

>>>>>> we

>>>>>> be diluting the importance and impact of

>>> severe

>>>>> abuse, or would it be a

>>>>>> step in starting to talk about abuse in the

>>> open?

>>>>> Would it help create

>>>>>> a

>>>>>> safe classroom for our learners, or would it

>>> have

>>>>> an opposite effect?

>>>>>> Daphne

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> "Muro, Andres" <amuro5 at epcc.edu> 8/25/2006

>>>>> 6:17:47 PM >>>

>>>>>> Ryan, taking your argument a step further, I

>>>>> wonder how many of us are

>>>>>> perps of violence too. We may be, in our

>>> efforts

>>>>> to teach and to

>>>>>> create

>>>>>> spaces for the students, crating spaces that

>>>>> perpetuate violence too.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> One thing that I usually talk about w/

>>> teachers,

>>>>> is the fact that many

>>>>>> teachers raise their voices, or slam things

>>> once

>>>>> in a while. They may

>>>

>> === message truncated ===>

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