Interview With Jonathan Beale of BBC Television

SECRETARY RICE: Oh, I think we will be sad to see Prime Minister Blair go because of course he has been a devoted friend of America and that makes a difference, but he's also been a tremendous visionary and he's been such a fierce fighter for people who were trapped in tyranny, but also for people who were trapped in poverty. And he's been a fount of ideas and that's why we'll miss him.

QUESTION: A lot of people in Britain are baffled as to why he has sacrificed his position, his support to back America on Iraq. Can you explain, because you were there at the planning stages of the war, why Tony Blair went along with America?

SECRETARY RICE: I've never seen anyone who was on this matter more principled than Prime Minister Blair. He believed and believes, as we do, that people who lived under Saddam Hussein deserved better, that Saddam Hussein was a threat to international peace and security, and that in fact the Middle East needed a different kind of future. And that's why this bond of friendship and this policy bond was formed.

QUESTION: It looks at the moment not like a legacy, but the biggest mistake he's made, doesn't it?

SECRETARY RICE: There have been so many times in history that things at the time seemed difficult, only later on to demonstrate that the right decisions were made. And I think the decision to overthrow the terrible tyranny of Saddam Hussein, even if the Iraqi people struggle on their way to a more stable democracy, I think history will judge it well and I think it will judge well those who stood by the Iraqi people in these times of need.

QUESTION: There is this characterization of him as President Bush's poodle, particularly in Britain. I'm sure you disagree with that, but people ask, what did Tony Blair get in return for his support on Iraq?

SECRETARY RICE: This isn't a matter of quid pro quos between the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of Great Britain. It's not the first time in history that the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of Great Britain have stood together to face down tyranny, to be there for the oppressed, to fight a war that, in fact, came from a time when both recognized the attack on our values, where September 11th -- I'll never forget that Prime Minister Blair was in the gallery the night that President Bush addressed the Congress on September 20th after the attack on September 11th.

Ironically, President Bush was in London at the time of the attack on -- because of the G-8 -- at the time of the attack on the subway and the metro system. And so they stood together as partners, they stood together as friends, and they stood together as allies in this war on our civilization.

QUESTION: People remember that G-8 moment in St. Petersburg last year, the "Yo Blair" moment where it didn't seem that they were equal partners. You're telling me they are equal partners?

SECRETARY RICE: The President was being informal with a friend, but he, I can tell you, not just valued Prime Minister Blair's advice, but sought it out, would sometimes say, "You know, I need to talk to Tony about this," just to get his views. And Prime Minister Blair is someone who has had views and whose views have been respected and, in many ways, have shaped American policy much as I think we've helped to shape the policy of Great Britain.

QUESTION: Where's the evidence of that? On what issues has Tony Blair --

SECRETARY RICE: Oh, on every --

QUESTION: -- bitten back as the poodle, as it were?

SECRETARY RICE: It's not a matter of biting back, Jonathan. It is a matter of these two men facing probably one of the toughest challenges that modern-day leaders have faced, certainly some of the toughest challenges since the end of World War II and the Cold War. And getting together to develop strategies, to think about how to go about it, to stand together -- sometimes to disagree, but always to stand together on the basis of values.

QUESTION: I want to quote to you -- this is an adviser to the State Department speaking last year, Kendall Myers, talking about the treatment of Tony Blair. He said he felt ashamed, there was nothing, no payback, "I can't think of anything he got in return." That's one of your own State Department advisers. Can you give an example?

SECRETARY RICE: I couldn't tell you who Kendall Myers is, so that may tell you something about how --

QUESTION: Or being disciplined by --

SECRETARY RICE: Well, that may tell you how close to actually knowing what was going on. You know, people have their views, they have their opinions, but I actually sat in the meetings with Prime Minister Blair and President Bush. I actually was there for the phone calls. I was there for their conversations. I know how they developed and worked together on strategies in these most complicated times. They've faced challenges that no president and no prime minister expected to face after September 11th. And I watched them work together to develop strategies to deal with those circumstances.

QUESTION: But can you give me one example of where Tony Blair has influenced U.S. policy? I'll give you -- you know, the issue of climate change; very close to Tony Blair's heart. There's no evidence that this Administration has listened to it.

SECRETARY RICE: Gleneagles; when they were together at Gleneagles, they made a breakthrough, really, in determining how the allies would think about climate change. Were the views exactly the same? No. But I think the Gleneagles document will stand as a way to think about climate change and the role of technology and the responsibilities of government.

On Africa and assistance for Africa, they have reinforced each other because Prime Minister Blair has cared about people in poverty and so, by the way, has President Bush. The United States has almost quadrupled assistance to Africa. They've done that together. So I think you will find many ways in which they have worked together. On Northern Ireland, I can tell you that President Bush's view to all of us, his order to all of us was, "Whatever Tony Blair needs to make Northern Ireland work, the United States of America is going to do." Those were the orders on which we acted.

QUESTION: What about the Middle East? I mean, we've noticed you have become --

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

QUESTION: -- more engaged. Has he influenced you over the Middle East?

SECRETARY RICE: Absolutely, he's influenced us on the Middle East. He's gone there, he's talked to people. I've stopped in London on almost every occasion in order to have the value of his advice. The President believes and understands and agrees with him that pushing forward the two-state solution is absolutely critical.

So this is a partnership and as is with all good partners, it isn't a matter of whose idea it was or whose advice it was. It's been merged together into strategies that are trying to deal with these very challenging times. But what the President respects about Prime Minister Blair and what I respect is that he's always been somebody who operated from principle. He's not someone who cared much about putting his finger in the wind and saying which way the wind was blowing, but rather, when he thought something was right, he did it. And that's a bond that America has shared with Britain through the ages and it's been the bond that has made for the best relationships between American presidents and British prime ministers.

QUESTION: It's going to be hard, finally, to replicate this, isn't it? And you've met Gordon Brown.

SECRETARY RICE: I have on a number of occasions.

QUESTION: Do you think this relationship is going to be as close?

SECRETARY RICE: I think the relationship will be very close, in part, because Britain and the United States are such key allies. But of course, this -- the bonds with Prime Minister Blair have been forged through some of the most difficult times, through the time of 9/11, through the time of the attacks on London, through Afghanistan and Iraq and Northern Ireland. And those are bonds of friendship that come from having been through some of the toughest circumstances.

But Britain and America will always have -- be friends and I know that we'll work very, very well with Gordon Brown when he becomes Prime Minister.

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, thank you very much indeed.

SECRETARY RICE: Thank you very much.