Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h6LCZx711910; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <f3e9aeb1.a6e29be5.c938300@mpmail1.jmu.edu> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: brownpg@jmu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9216] Re: writing in esl X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailer: Webmail Mirapoint Direct 3.3.6-GR Status: O Content-Length: 2925 Lines: 90 Mitsuko, I rarely tell so-called "ethnic" jokes unless it's one of those where the situation is so universal you can substitute ANY nationality and get the same chuckles in respsonse. I find most to be just plain cruel. As to the idioms, I use Dutch treat and it's all Greek to me all the time. I don't mean them in any offensive way. If I say "It's all Greek to me," it simply means, I don't understand, in the same way it would all be Japanese, Chinese, Russian, etc. to me. The same is true for Dutch treat. When I say that, I simply mean, I'll pay my way, you pay yours. And of course this all comes down to my major pet peeve about "political correctness." Sure, there are mean, hateful people out there, but not everyone is like that. And to assume everyone has some hateful meaning behind everything they say is just a bigoted as judging someone to be less than you because of skin color or nationality. I don't know what the origins of "Dutch treat" and other idioms based on nationality are. (Does anyone on this list serve know? That's not a rhetorical question -- I'm truly curious now.) But as I said, when I say Dutch treat, I mean I'll pay for mine, you pay for yours. There's no insult there. That said, if originally, there was some ethnic slur attached, please explain it to me so that I will understand WHY you are offended. I truly think that if people spent less time looking for offense and more time getting to know individuals better and educating instead of jumping on the "how dare you say that" bandwagon, we'd all be in a better place right now. Pamela ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:59:58 -0400 (EDT) >From: 高橋 美津子 <applepie@minos.ocn.ne.jp> >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9208] Re: writing in esl >To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > >Hello, > >I'd appreciate your voice on the following. > >There are many idiomatic expressions with nationality: some obsolete and >some still in use, I guess. I myself don't use them often or at all, but >have seen/read/heard them. > >Some of them are: It's all Greek to me. Pardon my French. Dutch treat. >Japanese three S's, namely, smile, silence, sleeping (in an international >meeting) etc., et. > >Are they offensive, obsolete, politically incorrect? >Or are they just humorous? > >What about jokes of different nationalities? >If someone tells a Jewish joke when a Jewish person is present, would it be >offensive? > >Does it depend on how close the relationship is? > >Are there any other safe ones to use? or offensive one for that matter? > >Just the truth as you know it would be fine. > > > >Mitsuko >Japan > Pamela Greenhalgh Brown EL/Civics Project Coordinator WIN News Editor Workforce Improvement Network James Madison University MSC 9003/Blue Ridge Hall Harrisonburg, VA 22840 540-568-8797 1-888-637-8494 540-568-2933 (fax) http://www.jmu.edu/esol
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Mar 11 2004 - 12:16:16 EST