Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h4NDfQC15350; Fri, 23 May 2003 09:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <001501c320b9$48413f20$1a01a8c0@cccchs.org> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Sylvan Rainwater" <sylvan@cccchs.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9024] Re: Presentation X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 2640 Lines: 64 I can give you my own experience with Spanish. I found it much easier to read and write in Spanish than to understand and especially to speak. It could be said that it's because I have CALPS in English, and find reading and writing easy in general. I have observed that students come with different proficiency levels in Listening/Speaking or Reading/Writing. For some one set of skills is easier and for some the other set is easier. Those with low literacy levels in their native language find it *very* difficult to R/W in English, but can often get S/L skills fairly quickly. This is because they are fearless about trying things, and are very comfortable with oral expression, I would guess. We teach Spanish language literacy in our program in order to improve a student's chance of learning both S/L and R/W in English. Sometimes they resist that, wanting only English, but we have seen over and over again that when they improve their Spanish language skills, their English language skills come along much faster. (No documented research here, just anecdotal.) Sylvan Rainwater . mailto:sylvan@cccchs.org Family Literacy Coordinator Clackamas County Children's Commission/Head Start Oregon City, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Sandees32605@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 12:57 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9019] Re: Presentation In a message dated 5/22/03 12:18:24 PM, AndresM@epcc.edu writes: << Before people get CALPS in a second language they must get BICS in that language. >> This is the Jim Cummins doctrine so far as the experience of children's second language learning, but.......... some research - and surely my own experience with adult learners - indicates that many academic types among adult ELLs read academic English fairly well ....... before they acquire BICS. The reason is that these people have little to no experience with spoken English in the native country, but at the same time are using English-language textbooks particularly in the sciences. This phenomena may also explain the sometimes huge disparity between some ELL's high TOEFL/GRE scores and quite low levels in listening/speaking. The high test scores would seem to indicate academic readiness; however, without the necessary BICS, these students almost inevitably have a very rough time with academic courses in the US where listening/speaking skills are as important as reading/vocabulary levels. How about the rest of you working with adult students? Similar experiences? Sue Sandeen ESOL Gainesville, FL USA
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