<DOC>
[107th Congress House Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:75152.wais]
ENTERPRISE-WIDE STRATEGIES FOR MANAGING INFORMATION RESOURCES AND
TECHNOLOGY: LEARNING FROM STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY AND PROCUREMENT POLICY
of the
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
APRIL 3, 2001
__________
Serial No. 107-4
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/congress/house
http://www.house.gov/reform
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
75-152 PDF WASHINGTON : 2001
____________________________________________________________________________
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COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM
DAN BURTON, Indiana, Chairman
BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
CONSTANCE A. MORELLA, Maryland TOM LANTOS, California
CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut MAJOR R. OWENS, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania
STEPHEN HORN, California PATSY T. MINK, Hawaii
JOHN L. MICA, Florida CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
THOMAS M. DAVIS, Virginia ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, Washington,
MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana DC
JOE SCARBOROUGH, Florida ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland
STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio
BOB BARR, Georgia ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH, Illinois
DAN MILLER, Florida DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois
DOUG OSE, California JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts
RON LEWIS, Kentucky JIM TURNER, Texas
JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia THOMAS H. ALLEN, Maine
TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois
DAVE WELDON, Florida WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
CHRIS CANNON, Utah ------ ------
ADAM H. PUTNAM, Florida ------ ------
C.L. ``BUTCH'' OTTER, Idaho ------
EDWARD L. SCHROCK, Virginia BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
------ ------ (Independent)
Kevin Binger, Staff Director
Daniel R. Moll, Deputy Staff Director
James C. Wilson, Chief Counsel
Robert A. Briggs, Chief Clerk
Phil Schiliro, Minority Staff Director
Subcommittee on Technology and Procurement Policy
THOMAS M. DAVIS, Virginia, Chairman
JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia JIM TURNER, Texas
STEPHEN HORN, California PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania
DOUG OSE, California PATSY T. MINK, Hawaii
EDWARD L. SCHROCK, Virginia
Ex Officio
DAN BURTON, Indiana HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
Melissa Wojciak, Staff Director
Victoria Proctor, Professional Staff Member
James DeChene, Clerk
Trey Henderson, Minority Counsel
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on April 3, 2001.................................... 1
Statement of:
Evans, Donald, chief information officer, Public Technology,
Inc., accompanied by Bobby Arnold.......................... 96
Gerhards, Charles F., Deputy Secretary for Information
Technology, Governor's Office of Administration,
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania............................... 55
McClure, Dave, Director, Information Technology Management
Issues, U.S. General Accounting Office..................... 12
Molchany, David J., chief information officer, Fairfax
County, VA................................................. 63
Upson, Donald W., Secretary of Technology, Commonwealth of
Virginia................................................... 46
Valicenti, Aldona K., president, National Association of
State Information Resource Executives [NASIRE], and chief
information officer, Governor's Office for Technology,
Commonwealth of Kentucky................................... 32
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Davis, Hon. Thomas M., a Representative in Congress from the
State of Virginia, prepared statement of................... 5
Evans, Donald, chief information officer, Public Technology,
Inc., accompanied by Bobby Arnold, prepared statement of... 98
Gerhards, Charles F., Deputy Secretary for Information
Technology, Governor's Office of Administration,
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, prepared statement of........ 57
McClure, Dave, Director, Information Technology Management
Issues, U.S. General Accounting Office, prepared statement
of......................................................... 15
Molchany, David J., chief information officer, Fairfax
County, VA, prepared statement of.......................... 65
Turner, Hon. Jim, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Texas, prepared statement of............................ 10
Upson, Donald W., Secretary of Technology, Commonwealth of
Virginia, prepared statement of............................ 48
Valicenti, Aldona K., president, National Association of
State Information Resource Executives [NASIRE], and chief
information officer, Governor's Office for Technology,
Commonwealth of Kentucky, prepared statement of............ 34
ENTERPRISE-WIDE STRATEGIES FOR MANAGING INFORMATION RESOURCES AND
TECHNOLOGY: LEARNING FROM STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS
----------
TUESDAY, APRIL 3, 2001
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Technology and Procurement Policy,
Committee on Government Reform,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Thomas M. Davis
III (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Thomas Davis of Virginia, Turner,
Horn, and Jo Ann Davis of Virginia.
Staff present: Melissa Wojciak, staff director; Victoria
Proctor, professional staff member; James DeChene, clerk; Trey
Henderson, minority counsel; and Jean Gosa, minority assistant
clerk.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Good morning. Welcome to the
Subcommittee on Technology and Procurement Policy's legislative
hearing exploring the strategies that State and local
governments have considered and implemented to centralize the
management of their information resources.
Before I continue, I ask unanimous consent that all Members
and witnesses' written opening statements be included in the
record. Without objection, so ordered.
I also ask unanimous consent that all articles, exhibits,
and extraneous or tabular material referred to be included in
the record. Without objection, so ordered.
Last year, the then Subcommittee on Government Management,
Information, and Technology chaired by Mr. Horn held a hearing
that looked at the merits of establishing a Federal CIO after
both I and my colleague, Mr. Turner, each introduced separate
legislation to accomplish that goal.
That discussion, chaired by our colleague, Mr. Horn,
examined the current state of information resources management
in the Federal Government including the use of information
technology management principles.
There is no question that information is now driving our
economy, our workplace, our classrooms, and our culture. The
quintessential symbol of the information age, the Internet, has
profoundly impacted just about every corner of the globe, and,
although computer technology has been around for decades, the
interconnectivity of our information systems and our
communications networks has grown exponentially since the early
1990's.
Clearly, this maturing medium that is the Internet is
redefining the relationship between citizens, between
businesses, between consumers and businesses, and, not the
least of which, between governments and citizens and
government.
There is a new expectation in the way that businesses
operate. It is now almost unimaginable that an enterprise can
succeed without establishing an Internet presence and, in many
cases, an electronic method of generating revenue.
Unlike government, we have seen the private sector lead the
way in seizing the benefits of electronic commerce, new
technologies, and, most importantly, the management of these
tools to achieve profitable outcomes. In fact, when you talk to
citizens today, they think of the private sector, they think of
being able to go to an ATM and sticking in a card and getting
out cash, or going and buying gasoline by sticking a card in
and not even getting a receipt. But when you think of
government what do you think of? You think of chads. You think
of the old technologies and the old way of doing things.
Today we are examining the question of how you bring the
Federal Government truly into the information age as a result
of the benefits that information technology has rendered and
Government's ability to manage its information resources.
Just 2 weeks ago, the Gartner Group estimated that through
2020 IT will bring a transformation to government and governing
more radically than any changes since the administration of
President Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Fortunately, State and local governments are working hard
to meet the challenges of transforming their governance
approach from a paper-based, stovepipe strategy to an
integrated, enterprise-wide management system designed to
efficiently improve public service delivery to citizens. But
those challenges are varied and many. They involve bringing
together strong executive leadership and all vested interests
to modernize financial, labor, information technology, and
capital management systems. While the information technology is
one component, it is ubiquitous, and therefore critical to
government's ability to achieve efficiencies and deliver
services, especially its ability to meet the expectations of
electronic government.
That same Gartner Group report also predicted that through
2004 more than 50 percent of e-government projects worldwide
will fail to deliver the service levels its citizens and
businesses require. Further, it is estimated that by 2005 OECD
governments will provide new means for citizens to participate
in activities such as rule and regulation-making, the
development of legislation, and judicial action that would
affect their own governance.
Many of these complex issues have been or are being tackled
by State and local governments, and this is our focus during
the next few hours.
In releasing its February 2001, States Management Report
Card, the Government Performance Project noted that over the 2-
year period since it issued its first report card, that a
surprising momentum has taken place. Those States that have
achieved little in the way of management modernization in 1999
were now committed to technological innovation. The project
found that States were generally moving in the right direction
with management systems improvement, and that States that
manage well perform well.
Most States have created chief information officers or
their functional equivalent, and that position is oftentimes a
Cabinet-level post responsible for overseeing and coordinating
all information technology and IRM in the State. Some States--
like California, Colorado, Massachusetts, New Mexico--have one
officer or commission assigned responsibility for carrying out
these functions, while others may rely on two or more divisions
to perform those duties. Similarly, there are counties and
cities across the Nation that have centralized IRM and/or
information technology practices in a chief information
officer.
It is my concern--and I would like to take the liberty of
saying that it is also Mr. Turner's concern--that the Federal
Government is failing to effectively manage its information
resources, particularly with regard to the use of technology.
For government to manage and perform better, it must integrate
information resource management as an integral and valuable
component to the success of its mission. Good governance is
impossible if those resources are simply seen as a support
function that can be isolated in their implementation and
oversight.
It is for these reasons that Mr. Turner and I have each
shown support of creation of a Federal CIO as a separate entity
within the Executive Office of the President. Mr. Turner's bill
would have created an Office of Information Technology and the
CIO would have acted as a special assistant to the President.
That office would have been responsible for providing analysis,
leadership, and advice to the President and Federal departments
and agencies on Government's use of information technology.
My legislation, the Federal Information Policy Act of 2000,
would have consolidated and centralized all IRM powers
currently held by OMB in a new Office of Information Policy and
also created an Office of Information Security and Technical
Protection reporting to the CIO.
But today our hearing is an attempt to gather information
from our witnesses about what types of management strategies
are being utilized, what factors were considered by each entity
in establishing a chief information officer or similar office,
how do they address the enterprise-wide issues that have
traditionally been dealt with agency-by-agency, and what are
the challenges they face. In addition, we'll identify the
primary differences between a State and local approach and a
Federal approach to more-centralized IT management and what
lessons learned at the State and local levels may be applied at
the Federal level.
The subcommittee will hear testimony from Dave McClure, the
Director of Information Technology Management Issues for the
General Accounting Office; Aldona Valicenti, NASIRE's executive
president, as well as Kentucky's CIO; my good friend, Don
Upson, the Secretary of Technology for the Commonwealth of
Virginia;
Charles Gerhards, the Deputy Secretary of Technology for the
State of Pennsylvania; David Molchany, the CIO of my home
county, Fairfax; and Don Evans, the CIO for Public Technology,
Inc. and former CIO of Montgomery County, MD.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Thomas M. Davis follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. I would now yield to Congressman
Turner for his opening statement.
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good to see all
of our witnesses here today. I know we all respect what the
States are doing in the area of information technology. You've
made much progress. We always like to say the States are the
incubator of ideas, and I think in IT that has clearly been the
case.
We all know that information technology is revolutionizing
both the private and the public sector's means of providing
services to the general public. E-government is making it
possible for citizens to access their government in a way they
have never been able to do before, in many cases without
leaving their homes. And the success of digital applications
has rendered the old forms of government and management
obsolete.
We now know that the effective and innovative use of IT
requires a level of leadership and focus that goes beyond what
many of us thought IT to be in the early days when we were
worried about what type of computer system to purchase for our
various respective governments.
In order to meet the management challenge, both the public
and the private sector have created positions called ``chief
information officers,'' or the functional equivalent of that.
This position has enabled there to be a central authority which
is usually charged with coordinating, funding, and managing all
digital information policies. Currently, individual Federal
agencies have CIOs, but the Federal Government, as a whole,
does not.
During the last Congress, the Subcommittee on Government
Management, Information, and Technology, chaired by Chairman
Horn--Steve Horn of California, who is also on this committee
and here today--revealed that, while the role of the CIOs in
the Federal Government has greatly expanded due to the year
2000 computer problem, computer security attacks, and other
reasons, the success of the agency CIOs has been uneven, at
best.
Moreover, because of a lack of central authority and
funding, there is little agency coordination in establishing
cross-cutting digital government applications. It appears that
the Federal Government's IT policy is like a ship without a
rudder, moving all over the place with no direction from the
top.
In an effort to address these challenges, last session
Chairman Davis and I both introduced separate bills that would
have created a Federal CIO. Time ran out before we could move
forward, but I know that we both share a commitment to that
idea and we hope to pursue it.
Despite the Federal Government's failure to institute a
Government-wide CIO, many States and localities have done so
and have been leaders in the area. While the Congress continues
to debate the need for a Federal CIO--where it would be located
in the Federal Government, how it would be funded, what degree
of authority it should have--I believe we can learn a lot about
the CIO position and model IT practices by listening to our
State and local governments share their experiences.
We are very fortunate that you have taken the time to meet
with us today. We appreciate your being here. And I want to
commend the chairman on his leadership and his foresight in
pursuing this very important issue for the Federal Government.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Mr. Turner, thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Jim Turner follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. Any opening statements? Mrs. Davis.
Mr. Horn.
Mr. Horn. I'd just say to the chairman that this is an
excellent group of witnesses. I've gone through most of them,
and we will get a lot of knowledge from the States, and this
time the States are ahead of the Federal Government and we need
to catch up.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
I now call our panel of witnesses to testify: Dave McClure,
Aldona Valicenti, Don Upson, Charles Gerhards, Dave Molchany,
and Don Evans.
As you know, it is the policy of this committee that all
witnesses be sworn before you testify. Would you please rise
and raise your right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much. You may be
seated.
To afford sufficient time for questions, please try to
limit yourselves to no more than 5 minutes for the statement.
We'll have a--there's kind of a colored box down there. When it
turns orange, you have a minute left, and when it turns red
your 5 minutes are up, and just try to move to summary.
This has been read and pruned by Members and staff, so we
kind of know what we want to ask you, but we want you to accent
what you want to accent in your 5 minutes.
Mr. McClure, we'll start with you and move straight on down
the line. Thank you for being with us.
STATEMENT OF DAVE MCCLURE, DIRECTOR, INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
MANAGEMENT ISSUES, U.S. GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE
Mr. McClure. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. It is a pleasure to be
here. Good morning to you and members of the subcommittee. I am
pleased to be here to discuss the role of the Federal chief
information officer and to also share some of the things we
have learned about State and local government and their
implementation of best practices in CIO organizations.
As you mentioned in your opening statement, information
technology is, indeed, embedded and the electronic government
approach is being taken at all levels of government. We have at
present over 1,400 e-government initiatives underway in the
Federal Government of varying size and type. Unfortunately, as
this subcommittee is well aware, the track record in the
Federal arena is mixed. While we do see success, we also see
too many instances where investments in technology produce
questionable results and not clear improvements in agency
performance. This is the reason we have been producing our
high-risk series--to let the Congress know those specific
projects that warrant congressional oversight and certainly
attention on the part of the agencies. Also, we have been
putting out a performance and accountability series that was
just reissued that in January--where we outline seven IT
management challenges which are critical, we believe, for the
Federal Government's IT performance to improve. They cover such
things as information security management, better use of
information, dissemination and collection technologies,
pursuing investment and capital planning practices, and
developing IT human capital within the agencies.
For these kinds of challenges to be effectively addressed,
we have consistently endorsed the idea of a Federal CIO. The
Federal IT management framework would be strengthened by having
a Federal CIO because increasingly the problems such as those
that I just mentioned are multi-dimensional in nature and they
cut across numerous departments and agencies. These problems
are blurred by our traditional government lines.
We think that these Government-wide issues really need a
catalyst to provide substantive leadership, full-time
attention, consistent direction, priority setting for a growing
arena of issues, and ensuring that IT is being used in the
Federal Government to produce the most consistent results and
addressing the Government's highest priorities and making sure
that these decisions are not made in isolation of those
priorities.
There is no consensus, Mr. Chairman, on the need for a
Federal CIO. I think we've mentioned in the past, even the
Federal CIOs, themselves, have been surveyed about this, and
the responses were mixed. What we do see is a growing support
for this idea since last fall. Several studies have come out
since that time proposing a Federal CIO, including the Council
for Excellence in Government, the President's Information
Technology Advisory Committee, the Gartner Group, and others,
which indicate there is growing support for the need for a
Federal CIO position.
However, without a clear understanding of the roles, the
responsibility, and the authority that we expect this
individual to have, it is difficult to really truly gauge the
support or opposition to a Federal CIO, and it is on those
issues of authority, role, and responsibility that we should
focus our attention.
Today you have several people here from State and local
government that are going to provide excellent examples of how
State CIO models and local government CIO models have been put
in place. There is no golden bullet or silver bullet. Each CIO
has been placed into the context of the organization mission,
and for that reason CIOs really have to function within
different contexts, depending upon the service or the mission
that the organization is delivering.
Let me leave you with six prominent fundamental principles
that must be in place for a CIO to be used effectively. It is
based upon a report that we issued in February called
``Maximizing the Success of Chief Information Officers'' that
is based upon our case study research of prominent private
sector and several State CIO organizations. These don't
represent the full array nor the best and the brightest among
CIOs in the private and public sector world, but the study
offers some excellent examples of things that they are actually
doing. They all are transferrable to the Federal CIO issue. Let
me quickly mention these six things.
The first is that the role of IT in creating value must be
embraced by other executives. CIOs don't do solo acts. They
must have the support of top-level executives and they must be
partners in applying technology to achieve fundamental
improvements in operations and mission delivery. Federal CIOs
can really help in this regard by playing a prominent role in
setting the agenda and expectations for IT in the Federal
Government.
Second, the CIO must be positioned for success. The roles,
the responsibility, the accountability for a CIO must be
established, and they must be given executive-level authority.
Almost half of the State CIOs report to Governors, and that is
a very important and growing trend that we are seeing at the
State and local level. We would expect the Federal CIO to also
have a high reporting relationship to a high official.
Third, CIO organizations must be credible. They must
deliver results, and this is an important distinction that we
would expect the Federal CIO to be tagged with--accountability
for producing better results and moving the governmentwide IT
agenda forward.
Fourth, CIOs must measure success and demonstrate results.
They have to show the effectiveness of IT with compelling data.
And this is something, again, we would expect the Federal CIO
to pay attention to. In the performance and accountability
framework that we have established in the Federal Government,
we want to see investments in the Federal arena producing
actual performance improvements in mission delivery.
Fifth, IT must focus on meeting business needs, not just
satisfying IT needs, closely aligning itself with the central
purpose of the organization.
And, last, we've seen all successful CIOs devote attention
to IT human capital. In high-performance organizations we find
developed strategies to assess IT skills, recruit, train, and
retain workers in this very competitive environment. We would
see a Federal CIO playing a very prominent role, working with
OMB and OPM in addressing the IT work force management
challenges in the Federal Government.
These six critical factors--and I think some of the lessons
that we will learn from our discussions with the CIOs this
morning--should be the center of discussion about a Federal CIO
position.
With that, I'll stop. Thank you for your time this morning,
Mr. Chairman. I look forward to answering questions and
entering into a dialog.
[The prepared statement of Mr. McClure follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. Ms. Valicenti, go ahead. Thank you
very much for being with us.
STATEMENT OF ALDONA K. VALICENTI, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL
ASSOCIATION OF STATE INFORMATION RESOURCE EXECUTIVES [NASIRE],
AND CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER, GOVERNOR'S OFFICE FOR
TECHNOLOGY, COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY
Ms. Valicenti. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and committee. It
is a real pleasure to be here to speak on behalf of some of the
issues that have been addressed in the Commonwealth of
Kentucky, and also some of the issues that we are addressing
now from NASIRE, the national organization of the States.
I'll tell you a very brief story. I was specifically
recruited into the Commonwealth of Kentucky to establish a
cabinet-level CIO position--no ``but's,'' ``and's,'' or
anything else. That was the mission.
I had never worked in State government before. I had never
worked in government before. The primary objective was to
really establish that position, as we have already heard this
morning, at a very high level, to give it the visibility, to
give it the ability to operate at a very high level to achieve
the business goals of the Commonwealth.
And Governor Patton did that for a couple of reasons. He
did that because he had started a major re-engineering effort
to re-engineer processes across State government. It became
clear that many of those processes needed to be enabled with
new systems, new information systems, and a new way of doing
business. The only way to achieve that was to put someone in
place who had the ability to look across the enterprise, not
from an individual cabinet or agency perspective, but to look
at what was good for the Commonwealth, and that was the main
reason to create a cabinet-level position--someone who would
sit at the table, who would have the objective of the
enterprise in mind, and then put a structure in place of
support from a systems perspective.
What we did is, over that period of time--and I have been
there 3 years now--we actually have identified, I think, some
critical learnings, and I would like to share them with you
because they will echo what you have already heard.
First of all, executive leadership and commitment is
absolutely necessary, not only the commitment to establish the
position, but also to allow it to present the leadership that
is necessary to put the systems in place that will serve the
citizens long-term.
The will to invest in information technology, not only from
an effectiveness perspective, but also from an efficiency
perspective. Most States today, as you have already seen by the
headlines, are probably going to have some issues with revenue
generation. It is no different than a private sector business.
We have to look at efficiencies on how to drive that across the
State.
The focus on applications--that's where the true value is,
not just on the purchase of the hardware and the
infrastructure, but on applications that deliver true services
to the State.
The willingness and the will to explore multiple
organizational models--I will tell you, Mr. Chairman and the
committee, having lived through multiple centralization/
decentralization efforts in the private sector, neither one of
them works for a very long time--they tend to swing the
pendulum back and forth--but to look for organizational models
that can sustain the investment and the focus to business
objectives.
And probably the last one and maybe the most important one,
to provide true metrics on what is delivered from an
information system perspective, to measure what we do, and that
is why it is so important, some of the issues that are coming
forward in terms how the States are rated--extremely important
to the effort.
Let me now focus on NASIRE and what the States are doing. I
am its current president. And what you see up on the wall there
is the graphic, which I think is very, very clear that most of
the States are investing in creating a CIO position either
reporting directly to the Governor or reporting through some
other department or a board. In fact, there's only one State up
there which is sort of under construction or under development,
and that is Hawaii.
From the conversations that we have at the CIO round table,
it is very clear that all the CIOs are committed to deliver on
the Governor's objectives, and to do that in such a way that
long-term the investment dollars really makes sense. That has
been driven by the Internet today more than anything else,
because what governments are doing--and State governments are
doing very specifically--is taking a very citizen-centric view
on how to deliver customer service. That will continue. The
Internet has basically driven that as an objective for us.
Consequently, we need to take a very citizen-centric view. The
only way to do that is to make someone in charge of the systems
that support that.
Thank you.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Valicenti follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. Secretary Upson, thanks for being
here.
Mr. Upson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Mr. Upson is a former staffer on the
full committee here before he went into private sector and then
into State government, so welcome back.
STATEMENT OF DONALD W. UPSON, SECRETARY OF TECHNOLOGY,
COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA
Mr. Upson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a special
privilege to be before this committee, and also before you. As
you know, I'm a great fan of the work you've done on this
committee, and you know exactly what technology can mean to
government from your background.
Congresswoman Davis, we missed you on the Science and
Technology Committee this year in Richmond, but we're awfully
glad you are on this subcommittee and in the Congress, as well.
It is a pleasure to be here.
I'd like to explore the issue a bit, Mr. Chairman, why are
States putting in place cabinet-level CIOs, and I would suggest
that it's not just about government services or on line or any
of those things; that it's really I think governments today
feel a sense of competition, to a degree unprecedented in
history, one with another, and somehow believe--correctly, I
think--that technology is critically linked to the economic
viability of their communities, their citizens, and certainly
their States.
I would like to quote Cisco president, John Chambers, who
says, ``The future does not belong to the big over the small,
but the fast over the slow.''
And I would also suggest that whether a CIO gets
established at the Federal level is a question of time and not
whether it occurs. again, I would commend that fast over the
slow analogy.
But why did we create one in Virginia and what did we do
that's different? As you said, Mr. Chairman, I worked on this
committee on three or four laws that attempted to elevate
technology in government, and none of them worked that well,
and it's because it was very difficult for people like you, or
cabinet secretaries, or certainly the President just didn't
seem to care much about how fast the computers were or how
broad the bands were. They were concerned about what those
things were connected to.
So what we attempted in Virginia was to build a law that
focused as much on management as it did on technology. What do
we do with the computers and the networks? What do they connect
to, and what are we trying to accomplish?
We first tried to define ``electronic government,'' and we
recognized very quickly that it wasn't just about what the
State did, but it was, more importantly, about what counties
and local government did. And so we built an office that I'm
privileged to hold, Governor Gilmore put in place and has
supported throughout its tenure. My office has direct
management control over procurement and everything else,
approval over major systems at the State level, but also comes
with a statutory council of technology executives from every
major department, all three branches of our State government,
but critically three key representatives from local government.
I'm very pleased that my colleague, David Molchany, is here
because he sits on that council. We meet, by statute, monthly
and we explore issues together and we learn things. In fact, I
would emphasize that--that we're all learning. We haven't--none
of us had computers on our desks 20 years ago, and less than 10
years ago there was no electronic government.
But we talk about citizen access begins at the local level,
and that's where transactions need to occur and that's where
the empowerment needs to occur, in our vision, in terms of the
State. We have a statutory structure in place that feeds to
that.
States, we do a mix of systemic things. We do some citizen
services and we have systemic relationships with education,
transportation, but really we're sort of passing down the
implementation of that to a more local level.
Now, the Federal Government, I would suggest, works on two
levels--a little bit of citizen interaction, but not much. It
is really interdepartmental process where agencies and
departments will tend to protect their turf, and
intergovernmental processes, which together we spend $94
billion on technology to somehow manage those processes.
Unless there is a senior executive that can bring together
senior executives in other departments, you're never going to
get through and break through the bureaucracy and the processes
that need to break through to create a competitive economy and
to empower our citizens. That's why we think it is critical to
have a State executive in our government, and at the questions
we can go into a host of things that I think we've tried--that
we've accomplished.
But I'd like to just leave you with that thought. It's
about interdepartmental and intergovernmental relationships,
and as you build a statute you might want to think about that
council of executives not just from the Federal level, but
maybe include one or two from State government and local
government, and perhaps private sector interests, perhaps,
where it is appropriate. But recognize that electronic
government, if it is really going to be successful, has to
cross all levels of government.
Virginia is participating with--actually, leading a pilot
project with the Federal Government on something called
``government without boundaries,'' and we have interest at the
Federal level now to port its applications to the most local
environment, our community.
That would conclude my remarks.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Upson follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. Mr. Gerhards, thank you.
STATEMENT OF CHARLES F. GERHARDS, DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, GOVERNOR'S OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATION,
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
Mr. Gerhards. Chairman Davis and distinguished members of
the subcommittee, I am the chief information officer for the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Thank you for the opportunity to
share some of our experience managing enterprise-wide
technology projects in Pennsylvania.
Let me begin by explaining that the management of
technology initiatives in Pennsylvania has changed dramatically
during the past 6 years. Before Governor Tom Ridge took office
in 1995, few State agencies worked together to coordinate
technology projects. Many of our technology investments were
duplicated across organizations, and, unfortunately,
opportunities to leverage the Commonwealth's considerable
buying power many times went unrealized.
That all changed in 1995. Governor Ridge has made
technology a centerpiece of his administration. He appointed
the Commonwealth's first chief information officer in 1995. He
also established the Office for Information Technology, which
is managed by the CIO.
As CIO, I report to the Secretary of Administration. The
Secretary reports directly to Governor Ridge, and is also a
member of the Governor's senior staff.
During the past 6 years, under Governor Ridge's leadership,
Pennsylvania has gained a national reputation as an emerging
high-tech leader. We have dramatically changed people's
perceptions of Pennsylvania, which formerly had been viewed as
a lumbering rust-belt State, and we've also accomplished major
technology deployments within State government that simply were
not possible during previous administrations.
Our success springs in great part from the Governor's
vision to establish a centralized Office for Information
Technology led by a CIO with the authority and empowerment to
effectively lead enterprise-wide technology initiatives.
Let me give you a few real-world examples. Pennsylvania has
been the first State to consolidate and out-source all of our
agency data centers on an enterprise scale. Previously, we had
16 separate data centers that existed, all within a few miles
radius of the State capital. Today those data centers have been
consolidated and are being operated by a private sector vendor.
Another example is a project known as ``Commonwealth
Connect.'' The Governor recognized that our agencies were using
multiple e-mail systems and desktop software, from word
processing to spreadsheets. This resulted in significant loss
of employee productivity. So at the Governor's direction we now
are moving all of our 40,000 personal computers--and it is
growing--to one single e-mail system and a single suite of
desktop software, and we've done a number of studies that will
show that this standardization will save millions of dollars
annually.
Finally, let me mention our nationally recognized Justice
Network. When Governor Ridge came to office, our criminal
justice agencies could not easily share electronic files on
criminals and criminal suspects. Today, our new Justice Network
provides a secure system for criminal justice professionals to
share data files, and by taking this enterprise approach this
system has helped to identify major felons, including murderers
and rapists. In fact, the FBI recently used our system in order
to identify some felons, some bank robbers.
Having worked in State government for more than 30 years, I
can tell you that efforts had been made under previous
administrations to accomplish enterprise initiatives, and,
frankly, very few of those succeeded. And the big question is
why? And the major reason is that we lacked a central
organization that had authority and empowerment to properly
manage many of these strategic and enterprise-wide projects.
The organizational changes that Governor Ridge introduced have
made a significant difference.
Over a period of 6 years we've had opportunities to refine
our approach in managing these enterprise technology
initiatives. I'd like to briefly share some of the lessons
learned, and perhaps the foremost of those lessons is the
first--our firsthand experience in seeing the value of strong
executive leadership, and I believe many of the panelists have
stressed that. Without the leadership, you don't have the
empowerment, and without the empowerment there is little chance
that you're going to have an enterprise approach to government.
We've seen great advantages and benefits of rewarding and
recognizing those State agencies that seize opportunities to
work together. Likewise, we recognize that occasionally we need
to introduce disincentives for those agencies that don't care
to work or they want to work independently.
I believe our success in Pennsylvania demonstrates the
importance of having a CIO in place to seize the many
opportunities to make government at all levels operate more
effectively.
That concludes my statement. Again, I appreciate the
opportunity to be here and share some of our experience, and I
would be happy to answer questions at the appropriate time.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Gerhards follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. David, thank you for being with us.
STATEMENT OF DAVID J. MOLCHANY, CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER,
FAIRFAX COUNTY, VA
Mr. Molchany. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Davis and
members of the subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to
speak this morning and represent local government.
In fiscal year 1994, Fairfax County's Board of Supervisors
created a private sector Information Technology Advisory Group
[ITAG], to work with county staff to study the use and
management of information technology in the Fairfax County
government. The ITAG recommendations created the Department of
Information Technology [DIT], from five separate IT-related
departments; created the chief information officer to oversee
DIT and technology county-wide and made the CIO responsible for
IT planning county-wide and the expenditure of major IT project
funds; made the chief information officer a direct report of
the county executive, our CEO; ensured that IT is treated as an
investment, with consistent funding; created a funding
mechanism to train IT workers and ensure skills were refreshed;
and created an annual IT plan written to highlight IT
directions, projects, and budgets.
ITAG also recognized that larger county departments would
still need to retain some IT staff. DIT would serve as a
consultant, mentor, or project partner for these departments.
Department IT standards, planning, and budgeting would follow
the direction of the CIO.
The role of the CIO has broadened since it was created. In
addition to county-wide IT responsibilities, the CIO is now
directly responsible for nearly 1,200 information-related
employees in DIT, in the Fairfax County Library, cable
television, consumer protection, and document services.
To assist the CIO, two groups have been created, which
serve as his boards of directors. The Senior IT Steering
Committee is an internal group which provides the CIO
connection to departmental IT viewpoints. The IT Policy
Advisory Committee [ITPAC], includes 15 private sector members
appointed by the Board of Supervisors and provides the CIO an
external, unbiased viewpoint.
As part of annual budgeting, the county has a formal
process for agencies to submit projects to be funded as part of
the overall county IT investment plan, which is administered by
the CIO. The county has a formal project manager certification
program, which ensures both business and technology project
managers are properly trained to manage our IT investments
consistently county-wide.
The elements that created a successful CIO position in
Fairfax County include: the CIO reports directly to the county
executive, our CEO, which empowers the position; input is
obtained from the CIO's private sector and internal boards of
directors, which is key; planning and review of technology
investment is done county-wide. There's a focus on standards,
cooperation, collaboration, and integration, and formal project
management principles have been adopted county-wide.
Challenges in creating the CIO position included the
merging of five separate IT departments, gaining buy-in for a
CIO responsible for county IT across all departments. The
solution was team-building, collaboration, cooperation, and
outreach by the CIO, himself.
The Fairfax County e-government program has brought DIT and
county departments a new way to reach our customers, and it has
brought DIT and the departments closer together. Our e-
government program has benefited from the county-wide viewpoint
of the CIO. We work together to present a single county image
and message, as directed by the board of supervisors and
ensured by the CIO.
E-government in Fairfax means providing 24-hour citizen-
centered government. The county's award-winning e-government
program offers multi-channel service delivery through the use
of interactive voice response, 24 multimedia kiosks, the county
Website, our libraries, and cable TV. We provide payments and
other interactive services, as well as access to information
through our multiple e-government technologies.
Although the first focus of e-government in Fairfax is the
citizens or businesses, we also employ technology to create an
efficient and effective internal government.
Some of our internal investments have included: new e-mail
technology, an internal Intranet for employee access to county
services, customer relationship management software, and
systems investments for many of our departments.
Our IT investments also include cooperative ventures. We
have done cooperative projects with the Commonwealth of
Virginia, and also participate in the GSA's government without
boundaries project, which has a goal of seamless access across
all levels of government to information and services via the
Web.
In conclusion, the CIO model in Fairfax can be adapted to a
Federal model. The Fairfax CIO's role is to work across the
enterprise. The CIO provides vision, goals, and a rallying
point for achieving goals. The CIO is also a marketer and a
motivator who shows what benefits are possible through IT.
The Federal CIO will need to be at the right level in the
Government to be empowered and to empower agency CIOs. The
Federal CIO will also have a board of directors, the Federal
CIO Council. The Federal CIO and the CIO Council will need to
create a process for oversight of enterprise-wide IT. The
Federal CIO will need to reach out beyond the Federal
Government to hear the needs of constituents, businesses,
States, and local governments. And I echo Don Upson's call for
a council that includes local, State, and Federal Government to
advise the CIO.
Creating a strong CIO that can empower and foster
collaboration between all levels of government can create a
government without boundaries and IT programs and e-government
that makes sense to everyone.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Molchany follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. Mr. Evans, last but not least.
STATEMENT OF DONALD EVANS, CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER, PUBLIC
TECHNOLOGY, INC., ACCOMPANIED BY BOBBY ARNOLD
Mr. Evans. Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and
members of the subcommittee. I am Donald Evans, and I am here
with my colleague, Bobby Arnold, who manages the CIOs at local
government across the country. It is our privilege to meet with
you today and to offer testimony on this important issue.
Public Technology is a not-for-profit organization with a
mission of, as rapidly as possible, delivering the benefits of
technology to local government. Public Technology, during 30
years of concentrated focus on technology for local government,
has earned the reputation as the premier knowledge company
regarding technology matters in the local government space for
citizen counties. Public Technology is also the technology arm
for the National League of Cities, the National Association of
Counties, and the International Cities/Counties Management
Association.
Some of the attributes that make PTI rather unique are it
not only makes recommendations to local government, but it also
installs solutions in the local government space. We work
closely on a daily basis with the leading edge local
governments, from the largest--the New Yorks, Philadelphia,
Dallases, the San Franciscos, the Fairfax VAs, and Montgomery
Counties--to the small--the Urbandale, IAs; the Rockville, MDs.
It also is active in international technology issues. We think
that these factors provide us with a unique overview for best
practice approaches to technology.
PTI considers proper management of technology as a serious
and significant opportunity for realizing enterprise benefits.
The benefits include enhanced service delivery, adequate return
on investment and assets, timely implementation, cost reduction
through the elimination of duplication of effort and
aggregations, and others.
Having adequate infrastructure we have found as well as an
appropriate governance structure to be essential for the
benefits I've just mentioned. In fact, we have conducted two
national surveys--one in April 2000, one in January 2001, that
show the importance of infrastructure. That's listed in
attachment one, tab one of our packet.
Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, we base our
testimony on the 30 years of focused involvement with the local
government and the expertise on multiple environments--Federal,
the private sector, local, regional, State, and
intergovernmental. That synopsis is in attachment two.
Public Technology, again, is intensely involved with local
governments of all sizes, with varying information technology
management models. Our experience has rendered several
important findings.
One, collaboration among stakeholders is an essential tool,
but is often overworked and confused as a substitute for
structure and accountability.
Two, political will is necessary to make any governance
model function properly.
Consolidation of functions designated as enterprise reduce
cost.
Fourth, consolidation of budgets for enterprise functions
improves return on investment and return on asset.
Fifth, IT models where the CIO has a seat at the CEO or
board room table accomplish enterprise goals faster.
Six, the IT function does well when it is commingled or
placed under the budgeting function.
A think tank, the CXO Advisory Group, has listed several
articles referencing the Federal CIO, and I point the committee
to that in attachment three. I'd also like to point that the
Web, I think, and the year 2000 examples at the Federal level
would be deemed as Federal CIO mandates or actions and I think
are noteworthy for the benefits that were achieved.
In tab four you have there the model of what might be
described as the Department of State's IT model. I think that
it is very, very interesting in how it is set up, and also it
does meet the Clinger-Cohen Act, but I think that that model,
that you see the separation between the technical readiness
evaluation that the CIO would perform aside from the business
return on investment that the budgeting function is quite
telling.
I would be happy to answer your questions. Again, we thank
you for being here.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Evans follows:]
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Mr. Davis of Virginia. We are going to proceed to
questions. Let me start. We'll do 5 minutes a round to start,
and alternate back and forth.
Mr. McClure, let me just ask you--you opened up--how would
you assess OMB's role and performance in providing Federal IT
leadership and oversight?
Mr. McClure. Mr. Chairman, since the passage of Clinger-
Cohen I think OMB has taken an aggressive role in trying to
provide better policy and guidance to the Federal agencies.
There is a litany of guidance that has come out of OMB in the
last 5 years.
In that regard, they are performing a critical role that
was envisioned for them under that important Clinger-Cohen Act.
I think in the Office of Management and Budget in the
separation between budget and management, concentration on
financial management and information management, sometimes, as
Don just referred to, gets so commingled that there is
inadequate attention being focused on some of the highest-
priority IT issues. That's where I think we see a Federal CIO
being able to provide constancy, constant attention and purpose
and direction to some of these issues that require it, as was
illustrated by the Y2K example.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Let me ask each of you State folks--
Ms. Valicenti, Mr. Upson, Mr. Gerhards--how are you held
accountable at your position? It seems to me you are coming in,
you are a new position, there's always going to be resistance
in terms of other agencies, in terms of what you are doing. How
much clout are you given, and how are you held accountable?
Ms. Valicenti. In my case, in the State of Kentucky
actually I have a tremendous amount of clout, which is driven
through several policy and budgetary issues. From a policy
perspective, I head the Committee on Standards and
Architecture, which is extremely important, because I would
suggest to you that is as important, if not important than
budgetary oversight. Initial planning of systems that would
eventually speak to each other, exchange data, is paramount to
what we do in the future.
Budgetary oversight for prioritization of projects,
especially ones that would have an enterprise impact, is also
something that I do across the Commonwealth. I think that is--
both of those responsibilities are necessary to really deliver
on the enterprise vision.
There was one other issue I think that was brought up that
I would suggest to you is probably as important as any others,
and that is the oversight of the information technology
discipline, as well. That is extremely critical today. We still
have a shortage of information technology people. We will never
be able to turn that over to a total public/private
partnership, although that is the direction. That's also a very
important part of my office.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Mr. Upson.
Mr. Upson. Mr. Chairman, I was asked the other day at a
conference: what are our performance metrics, how are we
measured, which gets to the heart of your question. And the
fact that there is a position now that reports to the Governor
that's responsible for technology, we don't have to set our own
metrics. We are measured by everybody. There are more
measurements out there--one of them, U.S. Commerce Secretary
Don Evans, does it down here at the end. There are more people
measuring what we do. And I guarantee you, we are very proud of
consistently coming up now in the top five or so, but if we
fall below that, every week at the cabinet meeting I'll hear
about it.
And I was very proud that we got an A-in technology
management, one of only a few States, which going to school my
parents were delighted when I brought that home. And the
Governor said, ``Why didn't we get an A?'' So the
accountability is there in terms of measurements.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Let me just say I was in law school
with the Governor. When he gives you any trouble about an A,
I'll share some stories with you. [Laughter.]
Mr. Upson. I'll take that back next Monday.
So I think the accountability is built in because people
are watching what all of us do, and we are exploring issues,
bringing together different levels of government, putting
together systems that communicate, cutting costs.
I am also accountable to the budget process, to two
different committees. Congresswoman Davis served on the Science
and Technology Committee, which actually is the authorizing
committee for my office. So I'm not only accountable to the
legislature, to the Governor, but to the legislature on a
regular basis. And I think that's important to have as part of
the statute when right now who is responsible for technology
management. If you had a hearing, I'm not sure who you would
call. Why don't we know what the top data bases are in
government? Why don't we know how they are secured? Why don't
we know whether we should buy or lease computers? Why don't we
know even what we have? And I'm not sure you could call anyone
right now. So I think creating the office puts in place the
accountability that I think you are looking for.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
Mr. Gerhards. I have to obviously agree with Don. Governor
Ridge is very much results oriented, and he routinely reads all
of the national surveys that are done ranking States, and our
grades have continually improved, and I am sure if that didn't
happen that I am ultimately accountable then to either making
the improvement or stepping aside.
I'm lucky that the Governor has given me a lot of
empowerment to make change, in two ways. One is the empowerment
of just change, itself, and that is, if I need him or his
senior staff to move mountains, all I need to do is to ask.
And, second, I work very, very closely with our budget office.
What I have found in my experience is the funding, the
budget, is the best lever both for incenting agencies and
staffs to do what you need done, or using as a disincentive--
that is, removing the funding, either in part or all--as a way
of getting their attention.
So I feel at the State level that we are empowered. I think
we are accountable. Again, many, many folks are doing
independent evaluations of our performance, not to mention that
internally we have many legislative committees and other types
of committees that routinely take each of our major initiatives
and then critique those.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
Mr. Turner.
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. McClure, you've spent countless hours working on this
issue within your office, as well as with me, Mr. Davis, and
others, and I think that most of us up here are convinced that
we need a Federal CIO for a variety of reasons, but I'd like to
ask you if you could basically share with us your perceptions
of what the major impediments are to us accomplishing that
goal. What hurdles do we have to overcome? What problem areas
do we have to resolve in order to achieve this objective that
we have all, at least on this committee, have worked on it and
have concluded that it is a good idea? Where do you see our
problem areas, things we have to overcome in order to get this
done?
Mr. McClure. I think really the issue is being real clear
about what you want this individual to do, and that goes back
to the comment that I think you've heard consistently from the
panel. Until the roles and the responsibility and authority of
this office are clearly understood by the community, I think
there will be differences of opinion about the value that it
can bring.
The CIOs themselves in the Federal Government are not
welcoming additional oversight and micro-management from a
Federal CIO. What they would welcome is a champion for the
types of technology projects that they believe could be
implemented to achieve more efficient and productive results,
perhaps across agency lines.
So I think establishing the accountability, the role, the
responsibility of this position is paramount to overcome any
reluctance or obstruction to it.
In addition, I think that the position has got to be held
accountable for results. If you create this position and then
are not explicit about what it is the individual is going to
produce and be held accountable for, then again it will be a
hollow position.
Listen to what Don Upson just said. He is held accountable.
He has performance metrics that he responds to and demonstrates
that he is adding value to the State government. You would
expect the Federal CIOs to do this, but on cross-cutting
projects, on common infrastructure investments that maybe the
Federal Government wants to invest in across agency lines. I
think those are the kinds of things that you would want to make
sure that this individual is reporting on--progress and
charting progress, so that it is, again, not just a position
that is talking and not producing.
Mr. Turner. So the two areas of concern you shared is that
there are concerns coming from the agencies about the role of
the Federal CIO, and they want that clearly defined and
understood, and you also believe that there needs to be
accountability for the Federal CIO, which obviously will give
them credibility over time.
In terms of the opposition of some of the agencies, what
types of concerns do you hear and how do you weigh the
legitimacy of those concerns?
Obviously, there's always a tendency to protect one's own
turf, and I'm trying to sort out here what type of issues do we
really have to come down to in order to deal with the agencies?
And I include in that the concerns that will come from OMB that
has some responsibilities in this area currently.
As you know, in the bills that I produced and Mr. Davis
produced last year, I was somewhat deferring to OMB at the
time. I think Mr. Davis' bill was more comprehensive, and
perhaps centralized some of those roles to a stronger degree
than I was doing in my bill. I'm interested--and our
sensitivities may now reverse, since the change in
administration, but we both had a similar objective in mind. We
were trying to reach a desired goal and to do it in a way that
was politically achievable.
So what do you see as the legitimate concerns flowing from
OMB and/or the other agencies?
Mr. McClure. I'll try to respond. I remember at the end of
the hearing last year I was asked which of your two bills that
I favored, and I hope you don't ask me that again. That was a
very difficult question in front of both of you to say I
preferred one bill over the other.
Let me see if I can answer the agency concerns. I think it
does boil down to, even for the Federal CIOs, to understand
what this Federal CIO will do different or similar to their
responsibilities. Again, the issue is one of fear of micro-
management, fear of enforcement of policy and guidance without
understanding the practicality of the pressure to deliver
results. Will this person be a partner or an overseer? I think
those are generally concerns that you get.
However, as I mentioned, I think many of the Federal CIOs
welcome a champion for some of the issues that they are
struggling with across agency lines, and I think they also are
very encouraged by having a champion that can be a priority
setter for the Federal Government because of the many long list
of IT priorities that the Federal Government has.
From an OMB perspective, I think the central issue is one
of separating budget control for IT from management and
direction, and there's a firm belief within the Office of
Management and Budget that if you separate the budget lever and
budget oversight from these management issues, including IT,
that it is very difficult to exercise oversight in the Federal
environment.
This goes back to just a question of an implementation
model. Certainly, OMB can continue to provide, as it did in
both of your proposals, a budget oversight role, but that can
be done in concert with a person that does not necessarily
reside within that office. There's a partnership that would
have to be established and a clear understanding of roles.
But, again, the problem is that there's a lot of focus on
structure and defining the organizational box as to where this
person is going to sit, and less of a dialog about what it is
we want this individual and the Office of the Federal CIO to
achieve. What is the problem that we are trying to solve? I
think it is articulated many times over what some of the issues
are that we'd like this individual to focus on, but I think the
more that can be addressed and discussed the better these
issues would be resolved.
Mr. Turner. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I think my time is up. I think Ms. Valicenti
has a comment she might like to add.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Go ahead.
Ms. Valicenti. I'd like to offer some perspective from a
State level. I would think that many of the concerns are very
similar to what a State concern is, and I can talk to you
first-hand of that experience. There is a concern that you will
add another level of oversight; that decisions will take a much
longer time to make than before; that people are going to
``micro manage''; that you're going to stop whatever progress a
project has and you will put another layer in there. But I will
tell you that much of that may not be well thought out
sometimes; that really the point is that the champion point is
a very, very important point--the ability to champion projects
that have the enterprise view, projects that need to take first
priority, help with individual projects.
Many agencies come to us now and say, ``Look, I've got a
project that needs your input and oversight,'' and if you have
some review of that it is much easier to get it through the
budget process. I would suggest to you that the same is
applicable for the Federal Government.
Mr. Turner. Thank you.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
Mr. Upson. Mr. Chairman, could I have one other comment on
that?
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Sure.
Mr. Upson. Just on the biggest impediment, I really think
it is something different. I think it is the fact that the
secretaries, the OMB Director, the President, and maybe many of
your colleagues don't think it is important. I think sometimes
they view the CIO as the person that fixes computers and faxes,
and do we need another person advising us at that level,
really? And sometimes I think what's in a name. I like the
position ``technology and management.'' I think it is a little
more understood.
But I think if the President and the Secretaries, the
people that you want--even the Clinger-Cohen Act was envisioned
that those Assistant Secretaries report to the cabinet officer.
I'm not sure there is a department in government where that
occurs today.
So I think the biggest impediment is buy-in at the senior
executive level that you're trying to reach. I mean, I think
the Federal CIOs would welcome it. I just think that's the
wrong audience for this bill. I think they get empowered by
this bill, but right now I think they are not empowered, which
is the point of it, and I think it is getting to the executives
to understand exactly what is involved with this $94 billion.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
Did you have something to add, as well, Mr. Molchany?
Mr. Molchany. I think one thing to add to that is the whole
sense of empowerment. In talking to CIOs at the agency level in
the Federal Government, they don't feel empowered, even in
their own agencies, many times.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Yes.
Mr. Molchany. And I think that a person that is empowered
to make technology happen, to be a champion, to be an
innovator, who can also empower those CIOs in their individual
agencies to make a difference and have some clout is something
that's needed.
One of the roles that I take on at the county government is
literally to work with the project sponsors and agencies and
make their own directors understand how important their
projects are and why they should be supporting them and why
they should be a part of them and why we need to put resources
to this, why we need to actually put budget funds to their
projects.
That sense of empowerment really is not there for the CIOs
you put in agencies. In talking to many of them, they don't
even have the types of powers that I have at a local
government. They really don't have a say in how the business
runs. As a deputy county executive at Fairfax County, I not
only am able to empower the people in the departments who use
technology to make a difference technology-wide, but I also am
empowered to be part of running the business, and I think
that's something that's really missing for the agency CIOs.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
The gentlelady from Virginia, Ms. Davis.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks
to each one of you for coming here to testify before us today.
This question is for Mr. Evans. Do you believe that the
creation of a position of Federal CIO would help or hinder
local government IT in any way?
Mr. Evans. For local government, to help?
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Right.
Mr. Evans. I think it will certainly be of a tremendous
help, and I might add I think that, whatever the cost is for
setting up the Federal CIO, it would be quickly regained in
terms of the returns of investment that the Federal, as well as
State and local government, would benefit. So cost should not
be an issue. The benefits would be tremendous in terms of a
much sooner three-tiered or seamless government being
implemented, and I think an economy of scale that we would just
love to have.
I would just like to add that local government--Fairfax
County, Montgomery County, just two examples--are larger than
many State governments, and so I think that there is a
tremendous wealth of how has the problem been solved at the
local level.
Mr. Molchany. Can I just add one point?
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Sure.
Mr. Molchany. I'd just add one point. I think we would
certainly welcome a Federal CIO. In just looking at the model
in Virginia, where I have a Secretary of Technology to work
with, I have been able to have Fairfax County cooperate a lot
better with the projects going on at the State level, and
actually in some cases eliminate duplication, where if
something is much better done by the State government or
actually much better handled by us as a part of one of their
programs, it has been very helpful to have a Secretary to work
with. I would welcome having a CIO at the national level to
also do the same with.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. And this would be--I guess anybody
can jump into it. How have you handled the security problems?
Mr. Evans. I'd like to start. After looking at many of the
governments across the country, I think the security issue--it
depends on what kind of security you're talking about. If
you're talking about telecommunications, network protocol,
that's one issue. If you're talking about the kinds of
securities that would reside at national secrets--NSA, CIA--I
think that those kinds of functions I would say are not part of
the Federal CIO. Those would be specialized kinds of systems,
as one might view, say, air traffic control, as an operational
system that is not in the mainstream of computing general
office automation, horizontal systems, so we would take that
out by setting up centers of competency--for an example, the
Washington Metropolitan Councils of Government--I think Fairfax
is for project management, Montgomery County was for strategic
planning.
So you could vest, for an example, a department or agency
to take over the lead for security, whether it be networking or
some other function.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Anybody else want to jump in on
that?
Ms. Valicenti. Congresswoman Davis, I think security is one
of those issues that needs attention at all levels, because our
security is really dependent upon the weakest link. We are all
interrelated. I think that we would need to distinguish what
level of security we want for what applications and what
systems.
But the general kind of security right now that we all
enjoy and intend to enjoy is in many cases driven by policies
at a local level, sometimes at a State level, and then at a
Federal level. That is a conversation that all of us need to
have together, because that is probably a set of very basic
principles that applies to all of us in order to do that.
That right now is facilitated by certain conversations and
conferences, etc., but probably would be better driven if we
had a conversation at the appropriate level among all
government.
I will tell you citizens do not distinguish what is
government. They don't distinguish sometimes what is local,
State, or Federal. They talk about it as ``government.'' And,
consequently, we need to look at our citizens in that same way.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
Mr. Molchany. Congresswoman?
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Yes?
Mr. Molchany. Security issues, I think, also just to add to
that are hard enough to figure out when you have a group like
we have, which you are familiar with, our COTS Council. David
sits on it. We talk about it on a monthly basis, driving toward
a level of collaboration and coordination that is critical if
you are going to ever secure and protect privacy and secure
data bases.
Without collaboration, the ability to collaborate and
coordinate, it is going to be a giant mess forever, and without
a functional office that can bring together the people for
collaboration and coordination, you can just forget about it.
So I think it is a critical component, and once you've
established this office the Congress suddenly has someone they
can--again, to go back to Chairman Davis--be accountable.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Right.
Mr. Molchany. So it is that collaboration and coordination
that comes into play with your question with this office. It's
hard enough when you have it, but impossible without it.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. So having the centralized figure
would help in the security----
Mr. Molchany. You bring people together. That's right.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Yes, sir.
Mr. Molchany. A perfect example of security and something
that probably should be centralized and worked across all
levels of governments is when you get into the area of digital
signatures, and basically in Virginia we've already decided
that each locality should not be handling that on their own. We
should go at least to the State and work with the State agency
that would handle that type of security for us.
When you look across the country--and exactly what Aldona
said--people don't look at us as separate governments, they
look at us as--they look at themselves as customers to us, and
they have to have multiple ways to work with us through
security. It is going to be very confusing. So something that
actually gave some leadership in that area would be quite
helpful.
Mrs. Davis of Virginia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
Mr. Horn.
Mr. Horn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I've been very impressed by the statements that you all
have made, and I just have a few questions here.
My questions go at the matter of the role of the President
and his staff or line. I think, if we are going to pass out the
chief financial officer we've already done, chief information
officer we've already done, inspector generals, we already done
20 or more years ago, and we have to give the President, I
think, the authority as to which person should report to him or
her, as the case may be.
And right now we've got to see a focus in what they call
``Office of Management and Budget.'' The fact is, it has never
been working on management. The budget is overwhelming. That's
why. And most of the people, the Presidents, regardless of
party, look for somebody that has financial background,
accounting background, not management usually. They don't know
the first thing about management. And yet Congress has put four
statutory agencies by law into the Office of Management and
Budget on all sorts of regulation, clearance, and this kind of
thing, all of which are necessary if the President is going to
have control of the executive branch of the Government.
Let's take an example--and one of you mentioned it. On the
Y2K thing, that was going nowhere. Every person should have
been--and the President didn't know what was going on that, and
no President did anything. So in April 1996, when we held the
first hearing on that, after that we wrote, with the ranking
democrat on my subcommittee, and said, ``Mr. President, you've
got to get somebody to run this show.'' It took him 2 years
before he faced up to it.
In the meantime, Mr. Koskinen was Deputy Director of OMB
for management. Nothing was done on Y2K. He retired. The
President--and this was a very good move--the President took
Koskinen out of retirement, said, ``I'll make you assistant to
the President, as well as any other functions,'' and that's
exactly what you have to have. And it is--the President needs
that authority.
I don't think Congress should push things in the situation
unless the President agrees, as some Presidents have different
styles and they need to know how to function on it.
And so Koskinen worked very well. He was assistant to the
President and he was chairman of the council, and so forth, so
he could pull all these people together. He could go around and
talk to the agency heads, the deputy Secretaries and all the
rest, so that was a plus because there was a direct line to the
President and everybody had to listen to him, as a result. And,
besides, he was a friend of the President, knew him before he
was the President, and so that certainly helped, and he did a
fine job.
But on this situation I think any position within the
Executive Office of the President, the President should have
the authority to move that with which function is the most
comfortable in terms of technology, let's say. If the President
doesn't care to think any about it, he's not going to want to
have them beating on the door. On the other hand, that function
has to be done, and it is a very valid function.
Some of the things, when we put the financial officers on
the books, what did they do in some of the agencies? They
simply gave it over to the Assistant Secretary for Management,
which had been put together in the Hoover Commission of 1948,
1949, and 1954, and that just was going nowhere, very frankly,
when they also threw the chief financial officer and the chief
information. Congress wanted those people to report directly to
the cabinet head, and we didn't seem to write the law carefully
enough, and the result was we didn't get much done years on
decent financial management or on decent technical and
computing.
So I just think we need to look at that, and I would like
to know, for those of you that have worked through more than
one Governor, I'd like to hear what your experience was.
And Governor Ridge, of course, was No. 1 in the Nation, and
I praised him in every press conference I had that he was way
ahead of everybody else. Governor Wilson started it with Mr.
Flynn, in terms of the chief of technology for the State of
California and a member of the cabinet, and it worked very
well.
So I'd just be interested in where you think that position
ought to be within the Office of Management and Budget, because
some of us think that we ought to have an Office of Budget and
an Office of Management, with those two people reporting, but
we can't have everybody reporting to the President. So do they
report to the President through the budget side, or do they
report to the President through the management side? So I'd
appreciate anything you want to say on the subject.
Let's just go right down the line. Mr. McClure.
Mr. McClure. Mr. Horn, I think it goes right to the heart
of the question. I think there is interest in focusing on
producing better IT results in the Federal Government. The
question is: how do we ensure that is going to happen?
We do have a statutory office in OMB called OIRA that's
empowered with the responsibility to oversee information
management and policy and even oversight of agency IT budgets
in the Federal Government. You know as well as I do some of the
inherent problems. That office is greatly under-staffed in
comparison to the workload that it is asked to do. The majority
of the occupants focus most of their time on the regulatory
aspect of the office, looking at paperwork reduction reviews,
cost/benefit studies in relation to the proposed rules, and
less of the staff are actually focused on IT issues.
I don't think there's any disagreement that there needs to
be a higher degree of executive attention within OMB or outside
OMB on IT, because of tremendous IT problems that we have in
the Federal Government that need to be addressed, but also the
tremendous opportunities that we're passing by, by not taking
this enterprise-wide look at information technology.
It could work lots of ways. I think the States are prime
examples of where you have some reporting to Governors, some
reporting to boards, some doing some combinations. There's no
secret method of success. But what is needed is some attention
to this issue, and it is analogous to the creation of CIOs in
the private sector, some of whom would argue they are dinosaurs
and who have already been subsumed back into the business side
of the organization, and that may very well be the case for the
Federal Government. But right now we need attention and focus
and executive-level focus on what these opportunities are that
we're missing and some priorities established for them. What
are the key problem areas that we need to address to make sure
that we are producing better results? Within our outside of
OMB, I think that's what we want to focus on.
Ms. Valicenti. Let me offer some comments in terms of where
I think the emphasis ought to be placed. I'm probably not well
schooled in terms of the organization of the Federal
Government, but having worked in the private sector it is very
clear that the position has a lot of emphasis on the management
side.
The budget side has always had emphasis because you always
have had to live within a certain budget within certain means.
It's the management side that has gotten attention over the
last few years, and I would suggest to you that it is the
management side that is getting attention in State government,
also.
It is very clear that some of the issues that Don Upson
just articulated--getting acceptance by other management folks
is very important, that you are part of the decisionmaking
process, that you sit at the table, that what you have to say
and the input that you have becomes part of the overall
strategy. For far too long, technology has been viewed as the
afterthought. ``By the way, here's where we're going to go and
here's how technology, at the very end, is going to help us.''
Unfortunately, that is not the case. The technology perspective
has to be integrated from the very beginning of when the
strategy is done, so, consequently, I would weigh in on the
management side.
Mr. Horn. I might add that I have done that as a university
president for 18 years, where they sat at the table after my
first 2 months and everybody knew that was the person that was
going to work with all of them in terms of the technology
portions, and it worked for 18 years, and I didn't realize that
I was putting a CIO in my--I didn't call him a CIO, but I got a
business manager out of his way, a vice president out of his
way, and he was part of my management group every Monday
afternoon, and that ran the university, basically, so I've done
it and it worked well.
Mr. Upson.
Mr. Upson. I would just only add, Congressman, that I think
that all those--the four offices that exist in the Department
of Management all were designed to elevate, as you said--I
agree with it--technology and management to a higher level, and
I think that a clear direction in establishing an executive in
statute is important for this reason: absent that, there is no
predictability. Y2K was an example of bringing people together,
but now it is gone, and issues like security and others are out
there. And the biggest question I got early on when the
Governor created my office, first by Executive order and before
statute, was, as we started progressing--and I think David
Molchany will agree with this--what happens after you leave?
That was answered by the General Assembly when they put it in
statute. And, absent that predictability, the level of
cooperation and coordination and executive attention goes down,
and I think that's the reason that Secretaries pay attention is
they think the White House is looking, in my mind, and the
reason that people pay attention to me is they think the
Governor listens to me, as he does. So I think that it is
important to have that continuity.
Mr. Gerhards. From my perspective, I probably spend 90
percent of my time on cultural and program areas, probably 10
percent on technology issues and budget issues; therefore, I
really think the emphasis needs to be on management. But,
regardless of where you position a CIO, I think the important
part of it is the empowerment, having the senior-level
empowerment. Without that, again, I don't think that you are
going to have or achieve the results that you're looking for.
You also need the high-level access, that when there are
issues, when there are cross-cutting difficult cultural issues
to deal with, that you have ready access to the senior
executives who can, again, move those mountains.
And just the last piece of that are adequate resources.
Certainly, having empowerment and having high-level access are
all needed and important, but unless this office or any CIO's
office has sufficient resources to carry out that mission, I
think there's going to be a lot of lost opportunities.
Mr. Horn. Mr. Molchany, do you want to comment on that?
Mr. Molchany. I think that the reason that our position has
been successful and I have been successful at Fairfax is
because I have the support of the Board of Supervisors and the
county executive and the other deputies. The realization that
they all feel IT is important, that they basically look to me
to make the IT decisions, to plan it, to make sure it gets
funded, etc., empowers me and it empowers whoever works with
me.
I think I would agree that the management side is what I do
most, making sure that we collaborate, making sure that people
work together, making sure that projects are on track and our
money is being spent wisely.
The one other key part that makes us successful is a very
good tie between myself and the CFO so that, as I am planning
IT, I am working with them to make sure it is within budget
guidelines and make sure that we have the money and make sure
that we are actually getting some return for what we are
investing. Looking at IT as the financial investment as well as
a management opportunity is really what makes a difference.
Mr. Horn. Mr. Evans, any more to say on whether it ought to
be the management or the budget side?
Mr. Evans. I would just simply say the management side, but
I would also like to say I think where the middle ground
between H.R. 4670 and 5024, if you could look at them as being
the ends of the compendium, is that, for those projects that
would be deemed enterprising, that those would be the ones
elevated up to the CIO, the Federal CIO for his oversight and
his budget control.
Likewise, you heard my colleagues mention about the
predictability or the unpredictableness of IT that Y2K was
present. Now it is not. Today it is security.
If you were to consider an authority or a mechanism similar
to, say, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the ability to task
organize would be a mechanism that I think would have the
flexibility for the Federal CIO having the resources that we
know are needed but don't know exactly what but can be very,
very responsive because it has the authority at that moment in
time, as Mr. Koskinen had.
Mr. Horn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. I want to thank you very much for
that line of questions.
Mr. Turner.
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Valicenti, I wanted to ask you to comment on a subject
that we had the pleasure of discussing with you in Mr. Davis'
office a few weeks ago with Governor Gehring of Wyoming and
Governor Barnes of Georgia, and that's the issue of what can
the Federal Government do to assist the States, and primarily
to prevent the Federal Government from hindering your efforts
at the State level to implement information technology through
the regulations that we may promulgate, and in our meeting a
few weeks ago you shared one very concrete example of a change
that you would suggest the Federal Government make to help you
at the State level, and I wanted to give you the opportunity to
share that with the committee, as well as to share with us any
other thoughts that you may have on ways that we at the Federal
level can do a better job to assist you and, of course, to
prevent the policies that we promulgate from hindering your
efforts.
Ms. Valicenti. Congressman Turner, thanks for the
opportunity. I think that there are several areas, and let me
point to them.
Many of the initiatives that are now being addressed and
have been addressed by the Federal Government, in fact, do come
to the States for implementation. It has everything from the
Workforce Investment Act to the regulations that are now
being--that are coming on around HIPA, etc., are going to be up
to the States to implement. In many of those cases, there
probably was not enough dialog in some of those cases on how
the States will implement.
And, by the way, I would suggest to you that this is
another area where a Federal CIO would have the foresight and
would have the ability then to work across government lines to
do that.
I think the very specific topic that we addressed when we
spoke with you a few weeks ago was really to remove some of the
barriers around very specific funding--funding that is toward
specific projects. And I would suggest to you that we will
probably provide additional testimony for you over the next few
months when we have an opportunity to do that of more examples.
But I would tell you in some cases funding is so specific that
it is for a program area.
If you look at the States and how the States want to
deliver services, they tend to deliver those services from a
very holistic way. We look at processes and we say, ``What is
the--a family in need may need multiple things, may need some
transition funding, may need child care, may need educational
opportunities. Today, many of that funding comes for a specific
project. So when we set up an office to do a holistic view, to
do a process view, we are, in fact, stymied by that funding
that goes to a specific program, and in those cases we have to
come and ask for dispensation--that, by the way, we would like
to set up one office that can serve a family for multiple needs
for multiple programs.
And if you look at the citizen as a customer, more and more
of the services at the local and the State level are probably
going to be delivered from that very holistic view. It is in
those areas, Congressman Turner, that I think that you could
help us.
Mr. Turner. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
Kind of a question for everybody, but I'd like to ask--let
me start with you, Ms. Valicenti--do you think there is
currently an effective working relationship between the State
and the Federal IT communities? And if you have any examples of
that, I'd like to hear them.
Ms. Valicenti. Congressman Davis, I think that we have a
relationship right now which is based more on individual
departments and agencies. I think that we, by the way, have had
a very good relationship of interacting with the CIO Council,
and we've done that on a regular basis, and we want to share
participation on that council. But it is at a very specific
point. It is not continuous. And when I talk about delivering
services from a government perspective, I think that is our
opportunity to do that from a very initial planned perspective.
I suggested to you a couple of areas. The Workforce
Investment Act was one area. I guess that HIPA is probably
another example where ultimately the States will require
implementation. To have that conversation early on with a focal
point is probably most important. So we can certainly improve
on what we're doing.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. I mean, it seems to me that when
you're talking about State and local governments you want to
interact with your clientele, which are the customers or the
voters, the citizens, but at the Federal level our biggest
clients are really State and local government, to a great
extent.
Ms. Valicenti. That is correct.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. It's not the average guy out there
who is going to hook up to a kiosk, although that is not
unimportant, but it is not the major concern.
Mr. Upson, do you have any comments? I'll go down the row.
Mr. Upson. Yes, Mr. Chairman. And I think the Federal CIO
Council is making attempts to work with State and local
government. The truth is, though, when State and local
government--when David Molchany turns around from a meeting
with the Federal people, he goes back and talks to the chairman
of the Board of Supervisors. I turn around and I talk to the
Governor of Virginia. She talks to the Governor of Kentucky.
Who do the Federal CIOs go talk to?
So when we cut a deal, we know we can deliver, but when we
talk about reforming HIPA or A87 or consolidating these, the
ridiculous process that my colleague here just described where
all the moneys have to be separated 20 different ways and ends
up costing more for all of us is--there isn't the ability to
change it. So we've got that authority, and I think that's why
I think all of us endorse your concept, because it's great,
they are well intended, but I'm not sure they can execute to
the extent we can.
Mr. Gerhards. Our interaction primarily at the Federal CIO
level is agency by agency. And I think, as Aldona said, many of
the programs that are coming out now we would rather deal with
them in a holistic way, which means that we need to deal with
multiple CIOs at the Federal level in order to try to either
seek exemptions or seek their approval for some of their
initiatives, and that becomes very, very problematic.
And I also want to just take a second and echo what was
said about inflexibility and funding. There are a number of
opportunities, I believe, we would have in Pennsylvania, but we
can't take advantage of those opportunities because, when we
bring the State agencies to the table, they say, ``We can't
participate because Federal law or Federal regulation precludes
our participation.''
Some of that is perceived, but many times it is real, and I
think we are missing a significant opportunity again to deal
with problems in a very strategic, holistic way instead of the
very tactical way that we are looking at problems at this
point.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you.
Mr. Molchany. I would say our experience has been mixed.
Probably our biggest example is the GSA and working with the
Government without boundaries project. That has been
outstanding. The people that we work with there are very
creative. We have been able to work with them, as well as the
Commonwealth of Virginia, as well as our own people to come up
with a concept, and hopefully a demonstration in the late
spring timeframe, very quickly.
The same agency, however, decided they were going to put
kiosks out over the United States. They put one in what they
thought was Falls Church, VA. It actually was Fairfax County,
VA. They didn't realize the ZIP codes didn't mean you were in
one place or the other. All of the information was for Falls
Church. My chairman of the board was going to go and cut the
ribbon, because they did figure out it was her that needed to
do that. I had to go and look at that kiosk and tell them at
the 11th hour, ``Change this. Change this. Change this.'' They
buried all the Fairfax information on that kiosk. You can
actually pay taxes on that kiosk, but you could never find out
how to do it because they never worked with us. So in one
agency two separate programs--one that has been an outstanding,
outstanding collaboration, and one, no matter how many times I
called from here to Texas to anywhere could I get anyone to
realize that the kiosk, A, didn't have to exist, because I
could put one of mine there and actually collaborate with them
to make it a better implementation; or that they needed to
actually call me back because the kiosk was actually in my
county not in the city of Falls Church.
I've also spoken at the Information----
Mr. Davis of Virginia. I just have to tell you, as a
resident of Falls Church and chairman of this subcommittee
which oversees GSA, I don't know why I wasn't invited to the
ribbon-cutting. [Laughter.]
But that's an issue for a different day. I thank you for
alerting us, though, to that.
Mr. Molchany. That is an example of excellence and not so
excellent in one agency.
I've also spoken at the Information Resource Management
College at Ft. McNair several times on the role of a CIO, what
does a CIO do, for potential CIOs. I have been struck at how
similar the actual things that people do in IT and IT
management in the Federal Government is to local government and
State government. I think there needs to be a lot more synergy
there, and I think a focal point at the Federal level could
certainly bring some synergy.
The other thing is the CIOs are looking for some direction.
They are looking for someone to empower them. Many of them have
said the same thing and different programs have been involved
with them.
And then I would echo Aldona. We need our simplification of
how Federal moneys and programs end up at the local level.
There is no holistic approach. There are strange things, such
as system of record, which means something that is foreign to
anyone that is in IT. You know, if data is in a data base, it
doesn't matter how it got there as long as it is right. Those
types of things are so complex that it is very hard to actually
interact with programs, especially at the local level where you
have a person that may need multiple pieces of the same program
all done at once. So I would echo Aldona that that is
absolutely a critical issue.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. All right. Thank you.
Mr. Evans, do you want to comment on it?
Mr. Evans. I think it has been said. Thank you.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. All right. I'm not interested in
ribbon cuttings in Montgomery County, but Mrs. Morella might
be. [Laughter.]
Ms. Valicenti. Congressman Davis, I want to just leave you
with a very graphic last example, and I failed to mention that
earlier, but I have been told stories--and I did not personally
see this--but, in fact, we had an office where there were two
programs funded separately, two people sitting side-by-side
with their own individual personal computers but not being able
to share a printer because that printer had to be supported out
of two separate programs. So two computers sitting side by side
with two individual printers because that printer could not be
shared.
And I will tell you that is one small story, but I think
that is probably replicated hundreds of times.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. And, as Mr. Turner and I have also
heard about stories like that, we're trying to work with your
group and others to try to ensure that kind of thing doesn't
have to happen. It is hugely inefficient, but it just talks to
the changes that take place when you move from one model and
one society into the information society. We just have to
change the laws accordingly.
Just one last question from my perspective, and I'll start
with Mr. Upson, because I know what Don went through.
Don, when you went down to Richmond it was new for the
State, obviously. I think one of Governor Gilmore's greatest
accomplishments has been in the area of information technology.
He has been very, very proactive in those areas. What kind of
resistance did you meet from other State agencies? You're a new
kid on the block at this point. No agency likes to give up
authority and power over procurement and those kind of issues
that obviously your position raised. And I will ask everybody
else to take it, because I think the key is, if you can have
somebody, whatever you call him, what's their clout going to be
and what's the resistance going to be from the old line sectors
that have been in power for a long time?
Mr. Upson. That gets to the heart of construction of a
statute. In fact, I think that it is important to create the
office, an office that has the authority, but I think that same
statute has to bring together the stakeholders, and the biggest
obstacle I have--it was on August 26, 1998, when we first met
and we had a 4-hour meeting scheduled, and the Governor was
going to come 2 hours into it, and we were supposed to discuss
things until he got there, and you could just see around the
room everybody--nobody wanting to talk like, you know, what are
we going to be told what to do.
And I think the important point is to construct a statute
somehow that lets the agencies know that this person is going
to be your agent, not your dictator, and is going to be
representing the collective views and provides a focus to go to
the Congress, to go to the executive, rather than be someone
directing.
And our whole statute was created from the point of view
that the Internet drives power choice and control to the
individual, and if you believe that you have got to believe
that central authorities can't tell people what to do very
effectively unless you bring them into the game.
I think the private sector management, in technology
companies especially, is different. It is diffused. It isn't
top-down. I use the analogy it is more a soccer game than a
football game, where, instead of the coach tells the
quarterback tells the team every single play, they're all out
on the field all at once and they're all cooperating.
And so I think that--but it was that initial belief that
government somehow, the central authority, new Governor for a
short period of time is going to try to tell us what to do, and
that's what I think. If we've changed anything, I think we've
changed that.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Anyone else want to comment? Mr.
Gerhards.
Mr. Gerhards. I think in Pennsylvania in 1995, when we went
to a CIO, our agencies were looking for some leadership. They
also were looking for a champion, because they had gone through
some tough budgetary times and they were looking for one voice
that could work with our budget office and champion the cause
that technology can provide a good return on investment,
properly implemented.
We also tried to keep it in a collaborative mode. We try to
do everything in a collaborative mode that we can and only get
dictatorial when we need to. We try to also keep our focus at
the enterprise level and not micro-manage, provide a lot of
flexibility to the agencies, and we do that through setting
standards and general policies.
I think it is also important early on, at least, to have
some small wins--to look for the low-hanging fruit. Nothing--
success breeds success, and a good way of building the team and
having everyone feel that they are an important part of the
team is collectively identifying some of those opportunities
and having success.
And I think what really drove it home in Pennsylvania was
the Y2K effort. Some folks were challenging the wisdom of
having an enterprise approach to Y2K, and I can tell you, after
we were finished with Y2K, two of the agencies--I had them come
to us and say, ``We would not have been successful, we could
not have achieved this, if each of us had to go out and procure
our own vendors to help us do this, if each of us had to find
the best techniques to remediate the technology.''
So I think all of those components together--and what I'm
seeing in Pennsylvania now is more interest in collaboration,
because they see it can work, and less interest in trying to
maintain the traditional stovepipes that we had before 1995.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
Any other comments on that?
Mr. Molchany. I have one. I think that you have actually
gone beyond creating a CIO with that question to what type of
person would you need. You really need to have a person that
actually wants to collaborate, that realizes that they can't be
a dictator, that realizes they have to have people work with
them, and especially in a Federal model, where you may not have
direct control over budgets and departments, you have to make
people want to work with you. You have to make them realize
that you have value to them, that you are an added value,
because if you aren't you'll be ignored. So you literally have
to be able to tie those departments together and make a
difference and really be a person that people want to work with
and really think there is some value.
Ms. Valicenti. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to offer----
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Go ahead, and then we'll go to Mr.
Evans.
Ms. Valicenti. Two thoughts.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Sure.
Ms. Valicenti. First of all, information technology has
been an enabler to everything that State government, in our
case, does, but everything that government does, and so if you
can get that message across to, in my case, my peers, my
cabinet-level officers, that we're there to help them.
Second, to distinguish what needs to be done at an
enterprise level and what not needs to be done at an enterprise
level, but that there is some control at the agency or at the
department over the things that have no enterprise perspective.
I think if you can make that--distinguish that early on in the
program, that is it much easier then to work.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you very much.
Yes, Mr. Evans?
Mr. Evans. Yes. I would just simply agree. To be very
candid, as we are currently installing enterprise information
technology models in some of the largest jurisdictions
currently, we see opposition that may be mirrors from wait and
see to outright sabotage, and what we find is that, as was
indicated, when the CIO does deliver, agencies, departments
realize that there is real benefit. I think the recommendations
that my colleagues make in terms of identifying the roles and
responsibilities will help clarify that, and also the guiding
principles that are associated with the collaboration that
David here mentions, as well. I think all of those things will
eliminate them. But they are no different than any other
project, the kinds of people issues that you have.
This is a 10 percent technology problem and 90 percent
people problem.
Mr. Davis of Virginia. Thank you. Any of my colleagues want
to ask any other questions?
[No response.]
Mr. Davis of Virginia. If not, let me just say before we
close I want to thank everyone for attending the hearing this
morning. I want to thank our distinguished panel of witnesses
and our Members for participating. I also want to thank the
staff for organizing this.
I think we've learned a lot, and I look forward to
continuing our work on these issues with my colleagues on the
subcommittee.
I will now enter into the record the briefing memo
distributed to the subcommittee members.
We will hold the record open for 2 weeks from this date for
those who may want to forward submissions for possible
inclusion.
These proceedings are closed.
[Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
[Additional information submitted for the hearing record
follows:]
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