Wow, does this sound familiar.  Very interesting.  It's comforting to know 
other people are experiencing the same situations we are. Thanks for 
sharing.

Lee Winkler
Literacy Council of the Highland Lakes
Burnet and Marble Falls, Texas
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Guthrie, Burr" <bguthrie at tamdistrict.org>
To: <assessment at dev.nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 4:22 PM
Subject: [Assessment] testing in small programs



> Our agency offers ESL classes only two nights/week and as we are bound

> to CASAS by 231 money, it is challenging to accumulate adequate hours of

> attendance to show learning gains.  A teacher offers the following

> perceptions of required assessment and I would welcome comments.

>

>

>

> On testing I don't have a complaint in principle. There has to be some

> means

> of accountability and a test is probably a necessary evil.

>    But after only two months instruction I think it's pretty pointless.

> 50% attendance is pretty good for my class, which means that we are

> preparing to test many students after only 20-30 hours of classroom

> instruction.  That's way too soon to expect any improvement.  Plus, the

> first hour of instruction is constantly interrupted by students arriving

> late - one by one for forty-five minutes or an hour.  So in terms of

> effective teaching time, the class is more like two hours long.  And the

> last half hour (9:00 to 9:30) the students are so tired, I'm not sure

> much

> is registering.  And given the erratic nature of attendance in general,

> homework is out of the question.  I had 14 students last Thursday and

> double

> that number tonight.  Attendance is totally unpredictable and therefore

> it's

> impossible to carry over one lesson to another.

>    On top of that, you have the fact that students who are surrounded

> by

> non-English speakers at home and at work, are at a big disadvantage

> vis-a-vis those students who have the opportunity (and in some cases the

> obligation) to use English outside of class.  There is no way for a test

> to

> distinguish a student who has to use English outside of class from one

> who

> can't find the opportunity to use English no matter how much he/she

> might

> want to.  This necessarily distorts the results of every test.

>    Take Wey, for example.  Her husband is British.  If she wants to

> communicate with him at all, she has to use English.  That gives her a

> huge

> advantage over the students who live in apartment buildings where all

> the

> residents are immigrants.  Her improvement since you had her in the

> summer

> has a lot more to do with her interaction with her husband than it does

> with

> your or my teaching effectiveness.  There's just no way for CASAS or any

> other test to account for this.  But it's basic.

>    I think the figure that Sasha gave us in the meeting - supposedly

> empirically validated -  that it takes 100 hours of instruction before

> improvement takes place - makes a lot of sense.  Is there any way we

> could

> restrict testing to those students who have logged 100 hours of class

> time

> since the LAST test they took?  That would give them an incentive to

> attend

> class regularly.   Otherwise, it strikes me as a lot of paper shuffling

> for

> little purpose.

>

> mks

>

>

>

> Burr Guthrie

>

> Adult Education

>

> Tamalpais Union High School District

>

> 375 Doherty Drive

>

> Larkspur, CA  93949

>

> 415-945-3789

>

> 415-945-3767 fax

>

> bguthrie at tamdistrict.org

>

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