Return-Path: <nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j7CGFDG03304; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <s2fc75d6.043@nmail.epcc.edu> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Andres Muro" <AndresM@epcc.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1452] Re: GED passage doesn't prepare students X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Status: O Content-Length: 3384 Lines: 83 Hal good points. We need to prepare students better for CCs. At the same time we need to work with CCs that serve large numbers of students coming from literacy and GED programs. If CCs promote their services and recruit students and use their financial aid $$$$ to pay instructors, it stand to reason that they will train instructors to work with non-traditional students. If we are going to take money from a single poor mother that wants to enroll in college, then we need to be aware that she will miss class when her children get sick. If we consider that some women are victims of domestic violence, we ought to understand that they will miss class when they get a black eye, or break a rib because they "fell down the stairs", or didn't bring homework because "the dog ate it". So, while we ought to prepare our GED students for intolerant teachers, we need to work so that colleges provide teachers that understand students' needs. That is unless the purpose of colleges is to filter out the most in need. Andres >>> hbeder@rci.rutgers.edu 8/12/2005 6:45:06 AM >>> This is a good point, but I think there are at least two other reasons why GED graduates have trouble in community college. 1. Most adult literacy programs treat GED students with great tolerance. No one complains when they miss a class or come in late. Teachers are warm fuzzies. When they enter community college, it's just the opposite. In most community colleges in this state, if a student misses three classes it's an F. You do your homework or you are out. Thus community college represents a discontinuity that many GED graduates can't handle. 2. GED grads are older and have adult responsibilities that conflict with being a student. They are much more likely, for example, to be married. As Tyler's work shows, getting a GED has weak economic benefits. Thus we have to stop thinking of the GED as an end point and start thinking of it as a beginning ,because the payoff comes with post secondary, even if that is a short term certification program. We need to place much more emphasis on transition programs and support programs once they are enrolled. At 06:22 PM 8/11/2005, you wrote: >Because of their eagerness to receive their GED, many of my students pass >the GED with just a 450 average. I would say that this isn't a likely >indicator of success in other learning endeavors. If you correlate this >barely passing score with say CASAs scores for the same students in math >and reading, they are reading and doing math at a 6th grade >level.Similarly, what passes in a GED essay would not pass in English 1A. >Is this college preparation? These students would not receive decent scores >on SATs or ACTs neccesary to enroll in a four year college. Even at a two >year college they will probably score into the lowest remedial courses. The >GED test is not college preparation in my opinion. > >I would say that if the researchers checked the passage scores of GED >students who went on to college, the more successful students would be >those who scored at 600 or higher. I would like to see some kind of study >that would look merely at whether a student passed the test, but at how >they passed it. > >Michele Craig >Woodland Adult School Rutgers University Graduate School of Education 10 seminary Pl. New Brunswick, NJ 08901 732-932-7496 ext. 8213
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