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30 April 2008
Scholar Discusses Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Ask America webchat transcript, April 30
Dr. Allida Black, a research professor of history and international affairs at The George Washington University, discussed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Eleanor Roosevelt’s work in the cause of human rights in an April 30 Ask America webchat.
Following is the transcript:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of International Information Programs
Ask America Webchat Transcript
Guest: Allida Black
Date: April 30, 2008
Time: 9:00 a.m. EDT (1300 GMT)
Moderator: Welcome to our webchat! The live chat will take place on April 30, 2008 at 09:00 EDT/13:00 GMT. You may begin sending in your questions now.
Allida Black: Good morning everyone. I so looking forward to our web conversation about the UDHR, its history and its impact on our lives today – and of course, any question you would like to pose about Eleanor Roosevelt and the battle to define and protect human rights. Human rights, after all, live in what our voices tell us – our hopes, our fears, our lives, our dreams, and our realities. Allida
Question [pperraud]: Did the US State Dept ever consider removing her from the Human Rights Commission because of disagreements with her human rights stands?
Many thanks, Pam Perraud
Villars, Switzerland
Answer [Allida Black]: Not officially, although several of the political appointees expressed this disapproval of her strong positions. They often tried to block her stances -- especially related to social and economic rights -- but she rarely backed down. At one point, she grew so frustrated with Undersecretary Lovett that she wrote Secretary of State George Marshall saying she knew what low priority the department placed on human rights, but it was too important a principle (and political tool) to be discounted. Sec. Marshall then did what Eleanor Roosevelt asked.
The lesson here is that Eleanor Roosevelt strove to find language the department (and especially the political appointees) could embrace to support actions she thought essential to constructing and protecting human rights. That's why when so many people read her today; they miss the power of her argument. Eleanor Roosevelt thought results more important that rhetoric and posturing.
Q [محمد قمره]: If we [are deprived of] our human rights...what shall we do?
A [Allida Black]: Wonderful question. Very hard to answer as I do not know what nation is your home. First, the UN Commission on Human Rights only addresses actions taken by nations against groups -- not against individuals. So you have no recourse there unless you are a member of a group that is targeted by your government.
So...your first step would be to investigate what non-governmental organizations exist in your country and then meet with them for guidance and support. If none exist, then you should contact one of the major international NGOS--Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Vital Voices, UNIFEM, etc--for support and counsel.
Q [georgegl]: Eleanor Roosevelt stayed weeks in Geneva in late 1947 to preside the Commission on Human Rights and the working group drafting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. She directed a team with diverse political and cultural backgrounds and they came up with a Declaration which was acceptable to most UN member-States. Even those from the Soviet bloc who objected to the Declaration were persuaded to abstain and not oppose it.
It seems that through her negotiating skills she was able to persuade her colleagues to give equal place to women and men by changing the vocabulary of earlier drafts -- human beings instead of men, among other things. Today some states, notably in Africa, claim the Declaration adopted by 48 countries is not universal. Where to find a new Eleanor Roosevelt, whom Harry Truman called "the world's first lady"?
A [Allida Black]: Hello. I am not sure which point you want me to address so I will address them all briefly.
Eleanor Roosevelt chaired the drafting commission with power and grace--she worked them hard--often till 2 am--and strove to have all voices heard. However, when the Soviet blocks continued to obstruct and to rotate delegates to the commission she lost patience. She then broke with convention and used her daily newspaper column My Day to challenge them in blunt political/personal language -- language that she could not use in the commission itself.
Outside the commission, she continued to negotiate, dine with, and reach out to Soviet delegates -- and that persistent steely but kind diplomacy (coupled with their respect for her political skills) persuaded Vishinksi to abstain on the adoption vote. He set the stage for the rest of the member block delegates.
The new nations of Africa, who came to live after the adoption of the UDHR, had no voice in its creation. Thus, their criticisms of their exclusion are correct. However, I disagree that the UDHR is a western dominated document-- if it was, economic, cultural and social rights would not be included -- and Peng Chung Chang, Charles Malik and Hansa Metha's voices would have been excluded from the drafting committee.
As for our ER, we have several remarkable women who lead the human rights efforts. Mary Robinson, Charlotte Bunche immediately comes to mind. Within the United States, we have elected officials who strive to work with human rights activists as they legislate and travel--Sen. Clinton and Sen. Leahy, for example. Liberian President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf is another.
There is no one who commands the world wide reverence that Eleanor Roosevelt held -- but there are several who have her courage and her commitment.
Moderator: If you are just joining us welcome. There are many questions coming in. Please be patient as our speaker is answering them.
Q [paulad]: 60 years after the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, women in the United States are still waiting for their rights. The Equal Rights Amendment which was first proposed in 1923 is still not part of the U.S. Constitution. Despite significant advances for women, legal sex discrimination is not a thing of the past and the progress of the past 60 years is not reversible. Unless we put into the Constitution the principle that equal rights cannot be denied or abridged because of sex, the political and judicial victories women have achieved are vulnerable to erosion or reversal.
The fact that in recent years members of Congress have tried to cripple Title IX, which requires equal opportunity in education; have opposed the Violence Against Women Act; the Fair Pensions Act, and the Paycheck Fairness Act and have voted to pay for Viagra for servicemen, but oppose funding for family planning and contraception is proof that the battle for equal human rights for women is not over in the United States.
If Eleanor Roosevelt were able to advise us today, what plan of action do you think she would recommend so that women in the US would finally have equal protection under the law.
A [Allida Black]: For most of her life, ER opposed the ERA--thought the strategy should be to make the Constitution live up to its promise. By the late 1950s, she changed her mind when she thought it would not weaken the worker safety provisions she wanted all workers to enjoy.
Eleanor Roosevelt would advice women to get into politics, "to play the game as men do," to elect women (who support your principles) whenever possible, and to remain fully engaged in the political process. "We cannot leave our problems to the government," she argued. "We are the government and it can only be as good as we are."
She strongly supported family planning initiatives, the living wage, and equal pay--from the 1920s until her death in 1962. She urged women to play competitive sports -- so I know she would revel in Title IX and lead the fight for fair pay -- it was a major principle she urged as she (as she was dying) chaired the First Presidential Commission on the Status of Women.
Moderator: America.gov features a publication on human rights. To view it please go to: http://www.america.gov/publications/books.html#0308.
Q [Chat Participant]: In your opinion, which people and/or events in Eleanor's life most influenced her stands on human rights?
A [Allida Black]: There is no one person, but rather the image of those Eleanor Roosevelt met as she traveled the nation during the Great Depression and the war scarred nations of Europe after World War II. She was haunted by racial violence in the US, the Holocaust in Europe, the sacrifices of soldiers worldwide, and the hunger she saw as she traveled throughout postwar Europe, India, and the Middle East.
She was particularly close to Nehru, Malik, Hansa Mehta -- and she read intensely. Particularly Gandhi, Tolstoy, Dickens, the Bible, the Koran, and Pearl Buck.
She carried a prayer in her wallet that gives particular insight into your question: "Dear Lord, lest I continue in my complacent ways, helps me to remember that somewhere someone died for me today. And if there be war, help me to remember to ask and answer, am I worth dying for?"
Q [Chat Participant]: Do you think that the UDHR could have been passed WITHOUT the guiding hand of Eleanor as Chair of the Commission?
Many thanks, Pam Perraud
Villars, Switzerland
A [Allida Black]: No. No question. No one else had the skills, the international standing, the patience and the unquestioning, commitment ER possessed.
Q [Abu Morgan]: Can you tell us about some of the documentary or textual influences on Mrs. Roosevelt's thinking on human rights? Was she influenced by, for example, the U.S. Declaration of Independence or religious texts?
A [Allida Black]: Eleanor Roosevelt read widely. Not only the Bible, but the Koran, the I Ching, and other major religious texts. She also read Jefferson, Ghandi, Tolstoy, Marx, Frederick Douglass, Thomas Paine, and major French philosophers.
She remained quite determined not to make the UDHR an American dominated document. She only used American references to generate American support for it when the American Bar Association and other conservative critics argued that it was a fundamentally un-American document.
Q [Chat Participant]: Dr. Black, How would Ms. Roosevelt view the functionality of the United Nations today?
A [Allida Black]: Parts of it would make her heart soar -- UNIFEM, UNICEF immediately come to mind. Other parts of it -- those that have succumbed to petty turf battles and intractable posturing and bureaucracy -- would break her heart. But I am convinced she would dedicate every ounce of her incomparable energy to making the UN live up to its potential.
She foresaw its problems and its potential. She knew that it would take consorted effort of governments around the world to work -- and she died still determined to do what she could to make that happen.
Moderator: America.gov also features a publication on "Women of Influence". To view the site please click on: http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/womeninfln/
Q [Chat Participant]: Did the US State Dept ever consider removing her from the Human Rights Commission because of disagreements with her human rights stands?
Many thanks, Pam Perraud
Villars, Switzerland
A [Allida Black]: I answered this in an earlier question -- so you may want to scroll up and check that out. Also, she became so angry with Pres. Truman and Sec. Marshall's hesitancy to address the refugee crisis in the Middle East that she told them she would resign from the UN in protest and release her letter to the public if they did not act.
Moderator: If you would like to introduce yourself to our global audience please select "comment". Tell us who you are and where you are joining us from.
Q [Chat Participant]: What did US people think about Eleanor Roosevelt and her activities? Was she popular?
A [Allida Black]: Eleanor Roosevelt evoked great passion from the American people. They either loved her or hated her. Most of the country admired her -- however, a large minority thought her dangerous, a communist, a traitor, or a woman of "mixed blood." Several times, people tried to kill her.
She challenged Americans to confront their hopes and their fears -- which meant addressing racial and religious bias, championing the rights of communists to be communists, arguing that the best way to promote democracy was to act in a democratic way at home and to show the world that American humanitarian aid was just as great as American military might. These were not popular positions to promote during the Cold War. But ER remained committed to them, despite the criticism they evoked.
"Courage is more exhilarating than fear," she argued." And easier. All it takes it the courage to look in the mirror and take one step at a time."
Yet, she always admitted that her greatest fear was that she would to afraid to act. I think that although the American people saw this, people around the world saw it more clearly and embraced her for it. She is still more beloved abroad than she is at home.
Q [georgegl]: I am George Gordon-Lennox, a representative of Reporters Without Borders at the Human Rights Council in Geneva.
Moderator: There are a lot of questions coming in. Please be patient as our speaker is trying to answer all of them.
Comment [anne2]: I am part of a task force that is trying to rescue the legacy of Eleanor Roosevelt through our website: http://www.erooseveltudhr.org and by informing non-governmental organizations of her inspiring leadership. We are also endeavoring to have a plaque dedicated to ER at the gates of the UN in Geneva.
Q [georgegl]: Given the countries, notably in Africa, who do not see their cultural and other sensitivities reflected in the UDHR, adopted by only 48 States, can we consider the Declaration is still universal? Do we need a new Eleanor Roosevelt to convince all countries to live up to these 60-year-old standards?
A [Allida Black]: This is a hard question. While a person of unquestioned international stature could help draw attention to the UDHR, it takes the courage of individuals "in small places close to home" to put human rights principles in play in their communities.
For example, Mandela lead South Africa out of apartheid, but it must be the South Africans themselves who internalize human rights principles and practices. Here in the US, Jefferson gave us the Declaration of Independence, but it was generations of civil rights, women's rights, and populist leaders who pressured the nation to expand its concepts of citizenship, rights, and responsibilities.
I don't think the standards "sixty-years old" or outdated. I think they are the principles of all time -- and the beacon which MUST guide the future. Hunger, poverty, education, dissent, health, family, wages, faith, peace, freedom from torture, the right to a nationality, safe working conditions, etc are the basis of our lives -- in any culture in any region.
While I appreciate the claims that some of my African friends make about the UDHR--that their nations were not involved in its drafting, I side with my other African friends who say it is their challenge to implement the UDHR at home in ways that reflect their values and their visions. That is one of the beauties of the Declaration, it is universal but culturally sensitive at the same time. And the Declaration has played a major role in the drafting of new African constitutions.
Q [anne2]: Why is it that delegates recognized Eleanor Roosevelt's achievement in guiding the drafting and entire Commission on Human Rights by giving her a standing ovation at 3 am on 10 December, 1948 and since that time neither the UN nor other organizations have heralded her work during UDHR anniversaries?
A [Allida Black]: Good question. Sloppy history. Convenient amnesia. Political pressure. Personal bias. More comfort with stereotypes than a complicated historical portrait. I don't know.
All I know is that I am determined not to let it happen this year and would welcome any help from you in this campaign. People need to know the courage she displayed, the ferocity of her leadership, and her unwavering committment to its adoption.
Q [georgegl]: Eleanor Roosevelt was the first recipient, in 1954, of the Nansen Medal for work with refugees, given by UNHCR. I can find no trace of her coming to Geneva to receive it or any speech she made on that occasion. Can you help?
A [Allida Black]: Write me off line at amblack@gwu.edu and I will try.
Comment [georgegl]: Excellent answer on the African question!
A [Allida Black]: Thank you.
Q [Abu Morgan]: Dr. Black, Can you tell us something about the other members of the drafting committee? Who else besides Mrs. Roosevelt played an important role in the adoption of the UDHR?
A [Allida Black]: Hansa mehta of India led the effort to have the term "women" inserted in the UDHR. Charles Malik of Lebanon, Pen Chung Chaing of China, and Rene Cassin worked closely with ER on the drafting subcommittee.
Carlos Romulo gave strong voice to the concerns of the Latin American nations. John Humphrey of Canada provided strong advice as senior member of the Secretariat staff assigned to the committee. See books by Lauren, Morisink, and Glendon.
Q [Chat Participant]: It is interesting to me to learn about this woman's role in the declaration of human rights. She was a first lady who was very involved in creating changes. In today's environment this might be seen as a "too influential" first lady or "too active"? Do you agree?
A [Allida Black]: No, I do not. I think Hillary Clinton's travels to the UN Conference on Women in Beijing is the perfect example.
Allida Black: Thanks, everyone—both for your time today and for your commitment to human rights. Before we sign off, I would like to leave you with one of my favorite Eleanor Roosevelt remarks. It so calls me to action that I carry it with me in my wallet. I hope it gives you the same comfort and courage:
Where after all do universal human rights begin? In small places, closes to home - so close and so small that they cannot be seen on any map of the world. Yet they are the world of the individual person: The neighborhood he lives in; the school or college he attends; the factory, farm or office where he works. Such are the places where every man, woman, and child seeks equal justice, equal opportunity, equal dignity without discrimination. Unless these rights have meaning there, they have little meaning anywhere. Without concerted citizen action to uphold them close to home, we shall look in vain for progress in the larger world. Remarks at the United Nations, March 27, 1953.
If you would like to stay in touch, please email me at amblack@gwu.edu.
Moderator: We wish to thank Ms. Allida Black for joining us today. The webchat is now closed. A full transcript of today's webchat will be published (usually within one business day) to our Ask America homepage.
(Speakers are chosen for their expertise and do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of the U.S. Department of State.)
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(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
