TRANSCRIPT

SEN. CARL LEVIN, CHAIRMAN, SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE

WITNESSES: GENERAL ARNOLD PUNARO, CHAIRMAN, COMMISSION ON THE NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVES; WILLIAM BALL, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSION ON THE NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVES; PATRICIA LEWIS, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSION ON THE NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVES; GENERAL E. GORDON STUMP, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSION ON THE NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVES;

LOCATION: 106 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

 

CHAIRMAN LEVIN:

Good morning, everybody. The Armed Services Committee meets today to receive the final report of the Commission on the National Guard and Reserves. We welcome our witnesses here today: Major General Arnold Punaro, the United States Marine Corps Reserve, retired, who's chairman of the commission and well-known to this committee, as I think every member, as a matter of fact, of our commission; his fellow commissioners, William Ball III, former secretary of the Navy; Patricia Lewis, former professional staff member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Major General Gordon Stump, Air National Guard, retired, who's also served with distinction as our adjutant general in Michigan.

We welcome you all. We thank you all. The nation owes you a debt for your willingness to take on this voluntary task.

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CHAIRMAN LEVIN:

Senator Akaka.

SEN. DANIEL AKAKA:

Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

And welcome to our panel. And the commissioners who have worked so hard and finally did report out in March last year, and have come forth with six major conclusions. And with all of the -- a little less than 100 recommendations -- 94, I think it was that you finally reported out. And it was good to know that you're working hard to try to set up an operation group for the 21st century, which includes the National Guard and the Reserve. And I want to say, all, just to thank you for your work and what you've done in doing that.

General Punaro, it is critical and we -- and I'm thinking about adequate defense of the homeland areas. It's critical that we maintain the readiness of our nation's Guard and Reserve assets in order to ensure adequate homeland protection and response in the event of an attack or natural disaster. I understand that the commission's conclusion was that this capability for our reserve forces has been degraded due to current operational demands. In my home state of Hawaii, maintaining this capability is a particular concern due to the, of course, unique geography and time required to supply reinforcements should the National Guard lack the resources or the personnel needed in case of an emergency or natural disaster there.

Assuming an inability in the short-term to address some of the more complicated changes the commission proposes to address the broad challenges facing the Guard and Reserves, my question to you is what immediate actions need to be taken to ensure that a gap in protection of American lives and property in the homeland does not exist?

GEN. PUNARO:

Senator, the -- I think we think the most immediate thing is a recognition of the high priority that the homeland missions should receive. And, therefore, if the Department of Defense supports that -- and I would say Secretary Gates is one that has directed the department to give the civil support requirements a much higher priority than they had in the past.

So the secretary of Defense, in my judgment, has taken a very decisive step after our report last March to say these things need to be given a higher priority. That means if they have a higher priority in the department, they will have a higher priority for funding and resourcing. And for example right now, the Hawaii Guard has only 38 percent of its critical dual use equipment that it would need for a homeland situation. But in the long term, the Congress is going to need to speak statutorily that these types of missions need to be given equal priority to the overseas missions. And that's the way it's going to play out.

So right now, because everybody is so operationally busy, it's hard to get these units back up to speed because we're kind of on a treadmill. But I think it really relates back to the department recognizing that these missions at home need to enjoy a much higher priority now than they have in the past. Again, I believe Secretary Gates -- he'll obviously have to speak for himself because wording is very important here and, you know, the counsels would want these things said in very, very precise terms so we're not creating too broad a mission for the Department of Defense.

But in simple terms, the civil support requirements have got to be generated by the Department of Homeland Security. The Department of Defense needs to take them, working with the U.S. Northern Command and working with the Guard Bureau, and make a determination which of those are valid for the Department of Defense. The ones that are valid then need to be put into the department's resourcing process and then that's how they're going to get funded, and that's how the readiness is going to improve.

 

SEN. AKAKA:

Let me further ask -- would you think that greater integration and collaboration of local and state law enforcement with the Department of Homeland Security -- would that help to address any short-term resource mismatch until DOD can assume a greater role?

GEN. PUNARO:

Senator, we think that's essential and that's one of the key roles -- why the Department of Homeland Security has to be the lead because they can bring to bear and they need to look at these scenarios and say, "Okay, here's one for the Justice Department. Here's one for Health and Human Services. Here's one for the Agriculture Department." The answer to everything is not the Department of Defense. So again, we emphasize this increased coordination in planning of everyone involved. And again, that's the role of the Department of Homeland Defense and we are not that encouraged that they are moving out as quickly as they need to be in playing that role of pulling everybody together and making sure all the assets that are available.

This is why we argue that Guard and Reserve units -- particularly the Title X reserve units -- if you have, for example -- I don't know what happened in terms of a response in Tennessee. But I know from personal experience -- I guarantee you there are Title X reserve forces whose personnel have come to the fray and helped out in these devastating tornadoes that have happened down in Tennessee. I guarantee you because it's the way it happens all the time. When the Amtrak train when off the trestle in Mobile, Alabama and went into the water, the 3rd and 4th Reconnaissance Company of the United States Marine Corps' 4th Marine Division, a reserve division, they had the rubber raiding rafts, they had the scuba gear, they were the first people on the scene. They were the first responders. They are a Title X force.

The American citizens, they don't care whether it's active duty, National Guard, Reserve, state police, local police, federal police -- the taxpayers are paying for every single bit of this capability. Our nations owes it to our taxpayers to get all of this coordinated and allow all of this capability to be brought to bear in these domestic contingency situations, not just the Department of Defense. So we would agree with you wholeheartedly on that.

 

SEN. AKAKA:

Thank you, General.

General Punaro, as we speak about the U.S. Northern Command and the troops that would be assigned to that, one of the recommendations of the commission is to substantially increase the number of Guard and Reserve billets at U.S. Northern Command, which has primary responsibility for, of course, defense of North America. By virtue of their familiarity with local communities and combined with the cost of mobilization and -- this seems to make the -- really the most of personnel.

My question to you is what is the biggest obstacle in current DOD personnel management and staffing practices to achieving this desired status in the command?

GEN. PUNARO:

That is really a tough question. And I want to be very careful in the way I answer it because the people at the U.S. Northern Command, I guarantee you -- and most of them are active duty personnel -- that command really grew out of the old command that had the North American Defense, the NORAD mission. They come to work every day dedicated to the security of this nation and put in long, long hours making sure they do everything they can to improve the situation. So that's not in question.

The issue really is experience, training, and culture. And for example, Lieutenant General Blum, who's the head of the Guard Bureau, everybody knows to be a very dynamic leader, a warrior. He's lead in combat. He's lead in peace times. He understands civil support. And he understands how to get 55,000 Guard personnel to the Gulf Coast in Katrina. That didn't come through Northern Command, that came out of the Guard Bureau. No one in their right mind would put General Blum in charge of a nuclear carrier battle group because he's a great three star general -- no one -- because he has no training, no experience, no frame of reference.

So our thought is -- and this is the Northern Command is a specialized command. It is a command that is focused on a very complex, very difficult mission which is protecting the homeland, particularly in scenarios that require interface with state, local government, with law enforcement, with first responders.

Active duty military personnel do not have the background and the experience. They haven't worked in that system. They don't know what they don't know. And Guard and Reserve personnel, they do this every single day. They are the emergency managers in the state. They are the hazardous material coordinators in a local community. Therefore, it would make sense for the U.S. Northern Command to have a lot more personnel like that on the staff in key row.

And, you know, they're looking at that. But the pulmonary decisions that we understand there have been -- that are going to be made is we don't think they're going to get any more close to having the number of people they need with the kind of experiences they need to basically shift the culture and experience base of that command. That's not a negative comment on the incredibly dedicated professional personnel and the commander that's working there every day.

Again, we would not put General Blum in charge of a carrier battle group. We need to put the people in these billets that have the years and years and years of training, experience and ability to handle these new daunting missions.

 

SEN. AKAKA:

Thank you very much, General.

SEN. LEVIN:

Thank you so much, Senator Akaka.

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