Philip Guntner

October 28, 2002

Taped Comments on the Pedestrian Right-of-Way given by Phillip Guntner,


“This tape is 30 minutes long on either side.

Scott, you may contact Lois Thibault, since Lois knows who I am, and I have communicated with her many a time, and in particularly regarding public right-of-way information. I hope to send her a copy of this tape, also, however she will be receiving this after the 28th of October. She will also be receiving some photographs that I have taken regarding non-access for pedestrians, in general, at a construction area that was up the street from me which was over two years in the final completion of this pedestrian or “street scape” as it is known.

Comments:

Pertaining to curb cuts: I concur with the curb cuts going in one direction across the side street and then having another to cross the adjoining street at the corner. I do not agree or like the 160 or so degrees of a curb cut. For being visually impaired, there is no indication for us to let us know if we are lined up properly to cross the portion of the street we choose to cross when it is in 180 degree angle, and is not in what you are recommending which is a specific curb cut for a specific crossing.

Also, the detectable warnings - I concur with the detectable surface being placed in a curb cut. However, I disagree with where the placement should be for the following reasons:

1 -- They should be at least 2 bricks at the bottom of the curb ramp, meaning wide, and

2 – at the top of the curb ramp.

This would then let us know when we’re walking on the main sidewalk that we have come to a curb cut and therefore can go down and knowing that there is a concrete flat area between the two rows of detectable warnings that this will tell us that this is our refuge area and we’re standing far enough back from the street level so that a car or vehicle that is passing us or turning, will not have something that is extended over their car or vehicle that would cause us injury because we are standing practically less than a foot, or step, less than a step away from actually walking into the street. This having a lower row would then indicate to us that as soon as we are off this lower row, we are now entering the street. Having the entire curb ramp with a detectable warning is confusing to us as again, we do not know precisely where we are standing in this area and could be standing too close to the street and could get us bodily harm. Because at times, cars do take a very close curb turn and come over top the curb area and go onto portions of the sidewalk area. So we would be standing far enough back to hopefully prevent this if there is a concrete area between the two rows of bricks at the top of the curb cut and two at the bottom of the curb cut.

Also, in the area of curb cuts, they should placed in the area that if someone is requesting them, that they be going somewhere. Not just having, as currently is, one person requested just for their side of the street, but if he or someone else chooses to go to the opposite side of the street, there is no curb cut for them to get to the opposite side of the street. So they should be going somewhere and not just placed at one corner and not at any other corner or proceeding street crossings from the point of where one curb cut was requested. The example being if there are two blocks from the point of a curb cut being requested and the two blocks are going in the direction of a shopping center or stores that the curb cuts be placed in all these areas.

Also, from my recollection dealing with Baltimore County, the detectable warnings should be brick pavers, not concrete which are I believe you’re also allowing concrete pavers or brick pavers. Brick pavers last longer and can be easily replaced if something has happened to one of them; whereas a concrete paver, you will have to replace the entire curb cut area. The cost wise, it would be in the long run cost effective to have brick pavers in this area, again as I described earlier for cost effectiveness, instead of the concrete because concrete will wear or be broken, or cracked, and the entire area must be replaced, and that may take an indefinite period of time since again, the cost factor would be thrown out as a way of choosing not to replace a curb cut detectable warning quicker than if brick pavers were there, and brick pavers could be replaced easily since they are individually put in and can be taken out individually.

I may jump back to this again, if I think of something else.

Second comment would be on the bus stops. I wholeheartedly agree with the signage at the bus stop to indicate for us being visually impaired or blind again that we are able to determine what buses will stop at this specific bus stop. The only problem that arises is finding the bus stop. And a way again that this can be achieved is to have the brick pavers in the sidewalk leading from the main flow of traffic in a sidewalk, having again, two brick widths of these pavers so that if we hit them while we’re walking or by either using a cane or by using a guide dog and having our foot or our cane hit the brick, this will indicate to us that we are near or at a bus stop. And if we go to our left or to our right, depending on where the flow of traffic may be, that we would end up standing in the bus stop area, and to indicate where we could be standing would be where the end of the brick pavers would stop not going all the way again to the curb, but say stop 2.5 feet or so before the curb so that we know if we stop at the end of these bricks, we are standing at a bus stop. That would be a way of indicating to us that we are at a bus stop. That is one of the primary problems we have, is locating where a bus stop will be, since they will not always be at a corner, they could be at mid-block somewhere. And again, if they are in a corner, you may have one in one direction, and then one also stopping at the other direction of the intersection, meaning if a car or the bus is traveling left to right, and then you have the intersecting street going from top to bottom, you would have two bus stops – one going top to bottom, one going right to left. This would give us indication of where each one of these bus stops would be located in the area that we would be walking which would be a main flow of pedestrian traffic.

The bus sign as I indicated, I agree with. The lettering should be the appropriate type, but again, the indication should be where we are, so more information must be provided, such as: Loch Raven and Glen Key, and then bus #3, bus #11, bus #14, all stop at this bus stop, which would obviously be in raised lettering and in Braille. And it should be in block letters so that it would be easier for someone as myself who cannot read Braille, can follow the formation of the letters to determine what the letters are telling us.

Comment 3.

One area that was not covered in your ruling which I hope you will try to incorporate, because I believe it is very important for pedestrian access, and not include all pedestrians. The disabled in particularly would be helped greatly and someone who is visually impaired or blind may save them from being seriously injured and that is to have even though this may be in some state or local codes, all states or codes may not have this in their requirement of the law. And that is, that the bushes along the flow of pedestrian traffic be cut back to give the entire width of the sidewalk. Not to have the bushes growing overtop the sidewalk so that if you have a 36” wide sidewalk and eventually its cut down to 32 and as the bush continues to grow that you will eventually end up with 18” or less of the sidewalk. For someone in my situation using a guide dog or my cane, it is very difficult to try and walk down a sidewalk when you have a hedge or other bush extremely hanging over onto the path of the sidewalk since at times there may not be an extra area to the left or to the right meaning grass area that you can walk on and the bush being overhanging the sidewalk with someone in my situation, I wear hearing aids, so this would end up causing me to possibly to lose or to damage one of my hearing aids. Also that my arm and my coat if I’m wearing a coat, could get torn up, my face could get severely torn up, because of the bush hanging over the sidewalk. And there are many in my area that are hanging over and I do have and have contacted the Baltimore County people, and as we speak, we have yet to enforce this law which is on the county books. It is part of the code but they refuse to enforce this law. And there are two areas that have stiffer bushes that are hanging over the sidewalk. So I hope you will consider adding this provision into the pedestrian right-of way guidelines so that it will become national, and not, whatever state or county someone happens to be in maybe. They may just have this on the books or may not be specifically clear so that it could be gotten around somehow. If you have any comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. My phone number is [...].

I am in Maryland very close to where you are and you could possibly I hope with Lois, possibly come out and see some of the things that I am trying to convey to you on this tape since it is easier to see something in person than to actually picturalize something with someone like myself doing the best I can in describing what I’m trying to convey to you.

The next area is the area that you are adding as to the access route. I believe the way you have it stated is very good; that it must be on the same side as the construction is being done on. The one area that I like to see added that was not mentioned is that there be on the access route, the addition to reflecting material and also the yellow lights that blink so that people who have light perception who are visually impaired or blind, or anyone else at night when it is extremely dark and you have no lighting whatsoever, that they would be able to see this flashing lights and to know that this must be an area that the sidewalk is torn up that they can go to to walk safely through or around this construction where the sidewalk has been taken out or being repaired or being added. Also it would be beneficial to everyone if you had recommended that there be an automative sign stating that some one would push this automated sign, the button, that it would indicate sidewalk closed, please go to your right for access; follow railing or follow you know boards. I will include in what I send Lois when I can get into my computer and print it off because I do not have a printer attached to my computer currently -- something that I gave the State of Maryland State Highway Administration regarding T-21. And I would rather not explain any farther, I think if you receive this and read this, it will be self-explanatory, and hopefully this could be something that you could add in the guidelines. Obviously you know the wording I’m not proficient in that area, as how specifically it should be worded, and you know if you want to work with me on this or whatever, I would be glad to assist you on this and so I am a person particularly interested in pedestrian safety and access not only to the disabled community but to the public in general to encourage people to walk more and stop walking two blocks or a block just to go to the store; they’re driving instead of walking.

I don’t know specifically about what references you were making in the proposed guidelines as far as the numbers as required by such-and-such.

I will make these comments and if they’re already addressed, then hopefully they will be addressed in the way that I’m trying to address them. That is if you have furniture such as a bench at a bus stop, that the bench has all-rounded edges and no pointed edges; that the furniture be maintained just like the bus stop signs that you are proposing be maintained; that the area when possible, should have a bus shelter with, you know the normal bench-type seat -- that this would be very beneficial to people who are disabled and may need to sit down and have some cover if its raining or snowing, that this would help them; to recommend that when feasibly possible, that there should be a bus shelter and perhaps you know I’m leaving the dimensions up to you since you’re familiar with the dimensions of the bus shelter. I have one in my area that was put in, I think is great.

I recommended it to the State Highway Administration person for the ADA and it went nowhere during the street scape. And there are several places that I feel that they could put them to help achieve a nice cosmetic environmentally friendly area, instead of just putting the bench which the benches are wooden, year round benches which have, again, this square edge to them. And not the rounded and so I hope that you will recommend a rounded area for any park or any benches at a bus stop so that people who are blind or other disabilities will not accidentally run bumping into them, get cut, or get severely hurt because the year round wood does eventually fray and tend to have splinters which can cause some very frightening injuries to people who are not able to detect this area when they’re walking or may for whatever reason, trip and may get injured. So I hope that will be looked at.

On audible signals, the placement of the pin is very important. Again I don’t know if you recommended off hand that when there is a curb cut that the pin be put on either side of the curb cut on a pole by itself at the required height so that someone in a wheelchair can lean over and press it with their arm so that this will be the definite area that someone who is visually impaired or blind would be looking to find a pin to help them cross the street and that the pin should have a locator tone at all times and it may be one that may be lower or higher depending upon traffic volume. But there should be definitely a tone that people could hear when they’re walking by at a good distance if the sidewalk happens to be 8 or 9 feet wide as some of them are in the downtown area Baltimore, they’re quite wide, I would say maybe 10 feet sometimes off the curb area. And this would have to be nicely noticeable if you’re walking that far away and you have a lot of noise downtown. That it would have to be a loud indicator and then when there’s not very much noise which would be late at night then it would be a lower indicator but you could still hear it.

The audible signal, I believe would be very beneficial if it is required to have the street that you’re standing on and the street that you’re going to be crossing when you push the button and then it gives you an indication as to walk or go, I think walk would be most appropriate since that is what the sign says when it comes up on the opposite side and it also says don’t walk. So it would just say walk then I believe that would be helpful instead of saying “go” or whatever, and it should be loud enough so that someone who would be hearing other noises and who wears hearing aids such as I do could be able to detect that being said. And if possible, I don’t know if there are any, but perhaps having it come out in the same area where you have the indicator button or the pin with all the information on it for us, if it would come out there, and not above our head that may be very, very helpful to people who are hard of hearing, or have some type of hearing loss and choose not or cannot use a hearing aid.

I am against you continually to recommend a mid-block crossing. There are two that I am aware of in the area that I walk, actually three. Two of them are currently up the street from me and were just put in and these streetscape and they again since you have curb cuts they are required to have a detectable warning, and for someone who is visually impaired and not familiar with the area, if they come to that in the sidewalk and because of the movement of traffic, could be confused and cross in the middle of the street, unknowingly. And as we all know, there are I’m sure laws in most of the states that require motorists to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, but in Maryland, I know they’re not enforced, and I’m sure there are plenty of other areas where they’re not enforced. And also for someone who’s not disabled this would present a hazardous situation since they’re under the assumption that the car would slow down or even stop for them to cross the street in the middle because of the marked crosswalk.

I don’t like them and it is again like I said, confusing. It is better for someone to walk another 30 or 40 feet or 60 feet to the intersection where there is a proper crossing and cross the intersection there, instead of the mid-block crossing. The one that I’m referring to the two that are in the street scape, we’re talking about a four-lane highway, two lanes in each direction with a center island which is very narrow so that when again, if it snows, and people see this marked crosswalk in the middle of the road will try to climb over the snow to make it a shorter distance for them to cross again, you are going probably going to say that the pedestrian is in the wrong for doing that, but again people will do that, and the way to prevent that is simply not to have the mid-block crossing.

The other crossing that I’m talking about is in Towson and it is in a small, narrow street, because there are parking on either side of the street so therefore it is one lane of traffic coming down the street when there are cars parked on either side. When cars are not parked which is on weekends, then you have two to three lanes depending upon which side is not being fully occupied for cars to come down and they tend to speed up to get to the light which is approximately about a block and a quarter away from where this marked crosswalk is in the middle of the block. And we all know, since I have driven, cars when they see a light is green, will try to speed up to try to get through that green light so again you’re giving pedestrians a very dangerous situation to cross and for someone in my situation trying to cross at a mid-block and you don’t know that you’re at a mid-block would assume that you can cross because you hear no movement of traffic and you would cross the street and could end up getting hit and killed because a car is speeding and trying to make the light or trying to get from point A to point B faster than they normally should be.

So again I’m against mid-block crossings totally and is something that should not be done because detectable warnings will be put in curb cuts since it is a requirement that curb cuts be put at all crossings. So please reconsider this and do not put this in the proposed guidelines, instead, make a statement that they are to be done away with and again if you want, I can show you first hand what I am talking about and its something that I hope that you will look at seriously, this is not a very safe situation for people who are blind or visually impaired or mobility impaired, or even in a wheelchair, they may still have some mobility impairments.

Going back to the issue of curb cuts:

Curb cuts when they are at a driveway, meaning a driveway to get into parking lot, shopping center, a personal driveway, that the driveway would come into play when there is the main sidewalk that the curb cut should be directly across from one side to the other side. You could follow it in a straight line. Not having currently, which I can again show you, two curb cuts – one is in a driveway that the curb cut coming down the sidewalk towards the driveway, you’re coming down a hill -- the curb cut if you’re coming down in a wheelchair or too fast walking, you’re directed in the flow of the curb cut and the direction of the curb cut is giving you or having you walk is actually into the flow of traffic instead of having the curb cut so that you would go straight across the driveway and stay away from the traffic. I hope this will be considered and put in some way so that curb cuts will go directly across any driveway and not veer the pedestrian off to the right or the left where the flow of traffic would be.

Also that curb cuts, when put in at a Yield Island, be put back far enough so that a person who chooses when driving to start going into the yield area, yield lane between the yield island and the main sidewalk, is not taking part of the pedestrian right-of-way crossing away from the pedestrian even though there may be two white lines indicating this is the pedestrian area to walk. I can show you both of what I am referring to in approximately a block of one another. The yield island has one curb cut on one side and no curb cut on the yield island side. On either side, the side when you’re leaving the main sidewalk walking across the yield portion of the road to the island -- no curb cut. On the opposite side of the yield island crossing the main road - there is no curb cut. But where there is the curb cut to the yield island, the cars yielding into this yield portion of the road would practically be on top of and have a very often for me, stopped where the car is overtop of the first white line of the pedestrian access, preventing me from walking straight across to the curb cut area. To the main side walk, because it is so close to the actual portion where the car starts to yield into this area, so if this is confusing, I’m doing the best I can.

And again if you like to see this first hand I can show you this first hand.

That if there is not already a provision in Maryland, we have it, again like I said, it is not enforced, since obviously, one cannot paint the pedestrian walk area with either a zebra crossing or two white lines that it be stated that wherever a pedestrian is crossing from one side of the street to the other side basically being again side streets, that this is a pedestrian right of way and that this area should not be blocked by any motor vehicle when trying to exit a side street, or even again, I could show you this, where there is a yield island that the car does not stop overtop of the area where a pedestrian would be crossing from one side to the yield portion of the road to the yield island. That this should be stated that this area should be maintained as a clear area for all pedestrians to walk, and not to have the car to stop and let them wait for the flow of traffic so that they can blend in. They must stop and let the pedestrian go through the walk area. Again this is for someone who is visually impaired or blind because we have no idea that a car would be stopped in the area that we would be crossing since again stepping off the curb or stepping from the curb cut into the road would more than likely be at least two to three steps in the road up against the car where they are stopped to make that yield turn into the traffic, or yield into the traffic. But this would help us immensely and also all pedestrians if the cars were stopped before the curb cut area or the walk area that would normally be there even though it does not have to be marked. This again may need some clarification – I’m sorry about that, I’m doing the best I can.

This really is all that I have to say right now, again, like I said, I am a person who is vehemently for pedestrian safety and access that the area we all walk should be as safe as possible at all times.

One area I’d like to briefly touch on is the lighting. I don’t believe you addressed the lighting. The street lighting should be sufficient during the evening hours so that people who are walking will have sufficient lighting and not just have the lighting for motorists and nothing there for pedestrians, because again, in a very dark area, people today can easily get mugged, and if you’re disabled, you are a walking target for people who are wanting to mug people. So this would greatly benefit everyone if the walking area is well-lit and even the residential area where there is lighting that is very minimal and it is very dark and residential areas. So where there is light, if they’re posted at the corners, that it be as bright as possible for the lighting effect to assist pedestrians when they’re walking. And again it would also help people who have light perception if they would know they were coming up in an area that perhaps would be a crossing for them.

So again I thank you for listening. I hope my comments were of some value to you and again if you want, and I would greatly encourage you and hopefully Lois, to walk through this street scrapes and since it is now completed, and see some of the things that are positive and most of the things that are very negative, and are doing more harm for the disabled, in particularly the visually impaired/blind community.

Again you can reach me at the beginning the tape the information and the information I provided, which again is [...]. We do not have an answering machine, if you choose to call. Again I hope you take me up on this. I greatly appreciate you listening and I hope to meet you if you do choose to come over or if you want to send Lois over, that is fine. Lois has come over once and seen this when it was partially completed, not totally. Again, thank you.

This is Philip Guntner saying I hope I have helped you in some way.”