PETER AXELSON [VIA SPEAKERPHONE]: HELLO.
PHILIP PEARCE [BOARD MEMBER]: YES, MR. AXLE SON THIS IS PHILLIP PEARCE AND YOU ARE LIVE IN THE BOARD MEETING SO WE WILL GIVE YOU 10 MINUTES TO MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION.
PETER AXELSON: GREAT, THIS IS PETER AXELSON WITH BENEFICIAL DESIGN. WE ARE AN ENGINEERING AND DESIGN RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT FIRM IN NEVADA, AND I REPRESENTED THE AMERICAN TRAILS AT THE MEETING FOR THE NEGOTIATION PROCESS. I PARTICIPATED IN THE OUTDOOR RECREATION COMMITTEE.
AND I'M FOR 30 PLUS YEARS NOW, A MAN IN A WHEELCHAIR, AND HAVE BACKGROUND IN OUTDOOR RECREATION -- KIND OF ATHLETIC PERSON, BUT I'M -- IN TERMS OF FUNCTIONAL MOBILITY GETTING AROUND. THAT BEING SAID, I APPLAUD THE EFFORTS OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS AND THE WORK THAT THEY DO BECAUSE IT IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL IN ESTABLISHING DESIGN STANDARDS AND ANY DESIGN STANDARDS THAT YOU MAKE YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE -- AND HOPEFULLY YOU ARE INCLUDING THE GREATEST MAJORITY POSSIBLE. AND IN THAT REGARD, I DO FEEL LIKE -- COMMITMENT TO PROVIDE -- FOR PERSONS THAT DON'T HAVE ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE -- WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE THE FUNCTIONAL ABILITY TO -- ACCESSIBLE BY YOU GUYS. SO MY COMMENTS THAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON ALL SUMMER NOW ACTUALLY, AND I WILL HAVE THEM TURNED IN -- SPECIFIC AREAS, THERE IS ONE AREA THAT I KNOW HAS BEEN STRUGGLED WITH THE ISSUE THAT THERE IS -- BETWEEN -- RECOMMENDATION FOR OUTDOOR RECREATION TRAILS, AND ONE OF MY SUGGESTIONS WITH REGARD TO THAT ISSUE IS THAT -- RECREATION TRAILS THAT ARE [….] MEANS THAT YOU COULD HAVE WORK AND ENERGY THAT EQUATES TO ABOUT SOMETIMES A 3 OR 4 PERCENT GRADE, SO IF YOU GET ON A SOFT CARPET IN A HOTEL OR TO YOUR RECOLLECTION OUR RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT VERY OFTEN THE CARPET WITH A FOAM PAD AND A THICK PLUSH CARPET WILL EXCEED WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE FIRM AND STABLE. AND WHEN YOU THROW THAT CARPET ON A RAMP OF COURSE YOU ARE MAKING THAT RAMP EQUIVALENT TO AN 11 OR 12 PERCENT GRADE.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE A OUTDOOR TRAIL THAT IS FIRM AND STABLE TO THE STANDARD IT DOES OF COURSE REQUIRE QUITE A BIT OF WORK TO MAKE THE SURFACE ONLY FIRM AND NOT PAVED OR HARD, SO WHEN THE SURFACE IS ACTUALLY CONCRETE OR ASPHALT OR SOME OTHER PAVED SURFACING, THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY ALLOW THE GRADE TO CROSS UP TO THE RECOMMENDED -- FOR LONGER DISTANCES, AND I THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO DEAL WITH -- PATH, WHERE -- PATH HAVE ASPHALT OR CONCRETE, WE CAN ALLOW -- FOR THE THAT ARE SPECIFIED IN THE -- REQUIREMENT, BUT -- PATH IS NOT PAVED AND IT WOULD MEET THE RECREATION TRAIL STANDARD WHICH WOULD ONLY ALLOW GRADES -- FOR SHORTER DISTANCES AND HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT THE RECREATION TRAIL GUIDELINES THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED.
I WILL TAKE THIS ON ANOTHER TOPIC WITH REGARD TO -- IT IS A DIFFICULT SITUATION. THERE PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO HE EQUESTRIAN TRAILS, BECAUSE OF THE […] YOU SITUATION OF THE EQUSTRIAN, A 3 FOOT WIDE TRAIL DOES NOT LEND ITSELF FOR ACCESSIBILITY FOR SOMEONE THAT IS IN A WHEELCHAIR TO TRY TO PASS, FOR EXAMPLE, SO I THINK THAT WHEN A TRAIL IS SUPPOSED TO BE USED BY EQUSTRIANS AND PEDESTRIAN, THERE NEEDS TO BE DESIGNED STANDARDS FOR THAT TYPE OF TRAIL WHERE THERE WOULD BE A SECTION OF THE TRAIL3 FOOT WIDE IN ADDITION TO WHATEVER THE EQUSTRIAN USAGE AREA IS BOTH BECAUSE EQUSTRIANS ARE HUGE HEAVY ANIMALS THAT MAKE THE TRAILS UNSTABLE, AND THE SAME SITUATIONS EXISTS FOR MOUNTAIN BIKE TRAILS. THEY TEND TO TRY TO BUILD THEM WITH EXCITING FEATURES FOR THE MOUNTAIN BIKERS BUT NOT FOR SOMEONE WHO SEEKS AN ALTERNATIVE DEVICE.
ANOTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO BRING UP, I THINK FOR BENEFICIAL DESIGN FROM THE MEETING IN COLORADO. WE HAVE BEEN DESIGNING TRAIL GATE BARRIERS THAT WILL ALLOW PEOPLE USING PERSONAL MOBILITY DEVICES TO PASS THROUGH A BARRIER THAT IS INTENDED TO KEEP MOTORCYCLE AND ALL TERRAIN VEHICLES OFF THE TRAIL. SO TYPICALLY, WHAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED AS WE GO -- THEY ARE 24 INCHES APART AND […] EVEN GET THROUGH THAT THERE MY […] TO GET OFF THE TRAIL. ONE SOLUTION IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CLEARS RELEVANCE BETWEEN THE BALLARDS IS 32 INCHES WIDE, BUT YOU CAN'T PASS THROUGH THAT SPACE WITH A MOBILITY DEVICE, BUT THAT STILL ALLOWS A MOTORCYCLE TO GET THROUGH THE DEVICE, BUT THROUGH OUR RESEARCH WE HAVE SHOWN THAT IT IS UP ABOVE THE HIGH END OF WHEELCHAIR CONTROLS, AND -- ALL THAT UP AT A HIGHER HEIGHT UP ABOVE 34 INCHES THAT CAN ALLOW THE CLEARANCE TO BECOME NARROWER. THE TECHNICAL -- WITH THE VISUAL IMPAIRMENT, BUT WE CAN DESIGN TRAIL GATE BARRIERS THAT ARE NARROWER UP IN THE REGION OF PEOPLE THAT -- 99 PERCENT OF ALL THE -- WILL RESTRICT THE MOTORCYCLE AND THE MOTORIZED TRAFFIC FROM GETTING ON THE TRAIL BUT ALLOW ALL PEDESTRIANS TO GO THROUGH ON TO THE TRAIL. SO THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE A DESIGN -- FOR TRAIL GATE BARRIERS, AND I THINK THE GUIDELINES ALSO NEED TO SPECIFY THE TRAIL GAIT BARRIERS NEED TO BE ACCESSIBLE, I DON'T THINK THE GUIDELINES CURRENTLY MENTION THE TRAIL GAIT BARRIERS NOW AT ALL. SO I IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO CONSIDER, ANOTHER ONE WITH REGARD TO SIGNAGE, BENEFICIAL DESIGN, AS YOU MAY KNOW -- WHICH SYSTEMATICALLY MEASURE TRAILS FOR PUTTING OUT TRAIL ACCESS INFORMATION THINGS LIKE TYPICAL AND MAXIMUM GRADES, TYPICAL AND MINIMUM TREAD WIDTH. -- HEIGHT AND OBSTRUCTION, ROCK, TRED WIDTH ON THEM, WE FEEL THAT IT IS VERY CRITICAL TO REQUIRE SIGNAGE THAT PROVIDES TRAIL ACCESS INFORMATION, NOT JUST FOR -- BUT EVEN MORE PERSONALLY FOR TRAILS THAT DO NOT MEET THE ACCESSIBILITY REQUIREMENT SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT LEVEL -- IS THERE, BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS A FUNCTIONAL ABILITY, AND IT IS VERY HELPFUL TO KNOW WHAT THE GRADES ARE AND THE PROBLEMS ARE AND THE CLEARANCE WIDTHS ARE, SO THAT EACH INDIVIDUAL PERSON WITH THEIR ABILITY AND WITH THE ADAPTIVE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE USE CAN GO DECIDE WHERE THEY CAN AND CAN'T GO. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE TRAIL ACCESS INFORMATION ON ACCESSIBLE TRAILS, BECAUSE CERTAINLY IT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN PUSHING OUT -- VERSUS A 5 PERCENT. -- BUT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT ON TRAILS THAT DON'T MEET THE GUIDELINES, TO KNOW WHAT THE ACTUAL CONDITIONS ARE, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO AND WHERE THEY AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO.
PHILIP PEARCE [BOARD MEMBER]: MR. AXELSON, YOUR TIME IS EXPIRED.
PETER AXELSON: THANK YOU THE REST OF THE COMMENTS THAT I HAVE WILL BE FILED THROUGH THE COMMENT PROCEDURE, BUT I WANTED TO COVER THESE MAIN POINTS SIGNAGE, IN TERMS OF BEING FIRM AND STABLE. I HAVE ONE OTHER THING ON -- IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ALLOW -- TO HAVE STEEP EAR GRADES YOU NEED TO TRY TO ALLOW STEEPER CROSSSLOPE TO GET THE WATER OFF THE TRAIL, AND BY CREATING THE DESIGN TRAIL, YOU CAN HAVE A WIDER TREAD WIDTH, AND PERHAPS MORE STABLE SURFACE. I THINK ALLOWING -- WOULD ALLOW THE DESIGNERS TO GET THE WATER -- THE STEEPER GRADE IS MORE THE WATER TRYING TO RUN DOWN THE TRAIL AND YOU END UP WITH A TRENCH WHICH BECOMES MORE A BARRIER. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ON ANY OF MY COMMENTS?
PHILIP PEARCE: THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS, BY THE WAY. DO ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. AXELSON? OKAY, SEEING NONE, THANK YOU AGAIN VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CALL IN, AND FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THAT WAY, AND WE WILL LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOUR WRITTEN COMMENTS TO COMPLETE YOUR PRESENTATION. THANK YOU.
PETER AXELSON: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LETTING ME CALL IN. I'M ACTUALLY OUT IN THE FIELD BUILDING A NEW TRAIL HEAD UP IN THE SIERRAS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HARD WORK. EVERYONE.