I have inserted comments and questions below each of the sections 
listed  below.


>I have a comment in response to your "Attendance" section: Two years

>ago, we started having students sign in and out at arrival and

>departure, noting the times. Our goal was to be certain our attendance

>records were accurate, but we also got an unexpected bonus: Just that

>degree of accountability has improved our students' punctuality and,

>even more, stopped the practice of leaving class earlier and earlier as

>the term progresses.We still have to remind of what our policy is, but

>we continue to be pleased with the results of that one simple measure.

>


My students sign in and out daily but I don't see it making them any more 
accountable than anything else I've seen. They still arrive late, leave 
early or skip class.  We've discussed how being on time is essential in the 
workplace and setting good habits now is important. We've talked about 
being accountable for one's time and attendance  but it's made little 
difference. How does having a student sign in or out make him or her more 
accountable and actually attend better?




>GED:

>First, I wonder if anyone can speak further to some of the GED related

>comments and questions (although the resources that one person provided

>were great, so thanks for that).  I would also like to know more about

>people's experience with the criteria for administering the Practice

>Tests, and also in terms of equating TABE and GED.  I have heard that

>some programs struggle to get students to take the TABE post-test once

>those students have started focusing on the GED because they see no

>reason to complete the TABE (but this then affects the data that the

>program can collect in terms of measuring student progress).


Getting students post TABE tested after they have completed the GED is 
definitely an issue where I am. We've not come up with any solutions yet 
either - other than trying to TABE POST test them before they finish that 
final GED test. Our director is constantly stressing the point that they 
need to be pre and post tested but if a student finishes the GED test 
before it would be time to actually post test them, we often miss the 
opportunity and often can't get the student to return for additional 
testing either because they are taking other classes or because they are 
working.


>

>We don't discuss GED issues enough here, and I would like to see some

>change in this.  Are there other GED questions/concerns that folks have?

>

>

>Attendance:

>One person commented that they have a difficulty with students in terms

>of class start time, and that students filter in at all times during the

>allotted class schedule.  I have heard that programs are starting to

>move away from Open Enrollment (which is a different issue) because this

>also causes disruptions in terms of the smooth delivery of curriculum

>and instruction.  What do folks do in terms of students arriving late to

>class?  I read with some emotion the other day in the Boston Globe, that

>in some high schools, classrooms (and even the school itself) lock out

>any student who arrives late.  That's high school, not ABE.  But I

>thought of that article when I read the person's post.  I admit that I

>would be frustrated with this issue for the adult students who DO get

>there on time and are ready to work.  It seems unfair for them to have

>to deal with this issue as well.

>


This is definitely an issue I have....students trickling in. It's 
disruptive to the flow of instruction and /or to the quiet of the room if 
others are working and the door keeps opening and closing because someone 
is entering. We have an open enrollment policy and I'm always getting new 
students up to and including the last day of a session before a holiday 
break. Additionally, because there is office space off of my class room, I 
have a steady stream of people all day long.  I've been repeatedly told I 
can have no attendance policy of any kind in my class room because it 
violates the open enrollment policy. In the AHS aspect of our program, 
students had to make up time they missed but they are now moving away from 
that towards a competency based approach where hours are not necessarily 
what is looked out and in turn creating more of an open enrollment process 
in that area as well. I have students who come 1 day and never return or 
who return 15 weeks into a 16 week session.  Lesson plans I make are always 
flexible and adaptable and I often find myself telling new students who've 
come into the middle of an ongoing exercise to just jump right in. Not only 
am I frustrated as a teacher but I know they are as well. It feels like a 
sink or swim exercise. I find that I can  really only do group instruction 
on rare occasions because I never know which group of students are actually 
going to be present on a given day and because I'm bound to get a new one 
anywhere between 8 am and Noon and or between 1 and 5.  This is probably 
one of the most frustrating aspects of  what I do day to day.


>Opportunities for outside practice:

>One post noted that some students excel because of their experiences

>outside of the classroom.  I guess that's why in K-12 and traditional

>college educations, we get homework and if fortunate enough, study

>abroad.  But the challenges inherent in ABE/ESOL often do not allow for

>assigning homework - although it seems a shame to be unable to take

>advantage of the fact that our students are already in an

>English-speaking country (regardless if they live in communities where

>they can easily avoid using English).  Does anyone have examples,

>experiences, ideas to share on giving homework, or assignments to be

>completed outside of the class?  Does it work out?  What kinds of stuff

>do you ask your students to do?  If you do this, how do you find

>activities/tasks that you feel confident your students will actually try

>to pursue?

>


My students actually ASK for homework - not all of them mind you, but some. 
They approach it as - "the more work and effort I put into this, the 
greater the benefit for myself and or my family." I find it works. I also 
make available internet resources that students can use as study aids 
outside the classroom or even such programs like MySkillsTutor and 
A+Anywhere where students  can get immediate feedback if they are working 
from home. I also give them an email address where they can contact me if 
they really get stuck. They also know that any question that stumps them is 
usually what I'll work on first thing in the morning with them.



>Test/Re-test guidelines:

>In terms of when to re-test, 30/40 hours indeed seems very low - and

>thanks to the person for providing the guideline from CASAS on re-test

>(which was about 80 hours I think - did you note that there is a minimum

>of 45 hours?  Are there particular instances when one would re-test

>after so few hours?).  I tried a bit to find the exact numbers for

>re-test on BEST Plus (but I think it's also 80 hours) and gave up for

>now - does anyone have that info handy?  I think TABE is also around the

>same number of hours - there seems to be a standard around how much

>instruction is needed before you can see educational gain with a

>student.  Is that right?  Here is the link for the SABES (System for

>Adult Basic Education Support) Assessment Support Website that has info

>on tests and guidelines for testing.  You can find some pretty good

>suggestions there around these issues.

>http://www.sabes.org/assessment/index.htm 


I think testing/re-testing really varies from student to student - 
especially if during the intake assessment a student didn't do his or her 
best simply because they didn't want to.  I think if a student  can 
demonstrate mastery of skills needed to improve in areas he/she had an 
initially demonstrated weakness that to hold him or her in place simply 
because he or she lacks sufficient recommended hours is unwise and could 
lead to frustrating the student causing the student to quit 
altogether.  How can anyone really quantify the amount of  instruction that 
it takes - it varies from student to student - some may need more and some 
may need may less. The amount of instruction necessary might also vary on 
the type of information being taught. I think there are many factors that 
play into determining if or when someone is ready to test/retest.

Regards
Katrina Hinson 


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We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are
pretty, some are dull, some have weird names, and all are
different colors...but they all have to learn to live in
the same box.