VW Rolls Out a Backward Hybrid
Volkswagen's been toying with hybrids for awhile and got electric-vehicle advocates in a lather over the diesel-electric Golf it unveiled a few months ago. Now the company's promising a plug-in hybrid by 2010 and the German government's written a big check to make it happen.
VW boss Martin Winterkorn says gas and diesel engines will be around for a long time to come, but "the future belongs to all-electric cars." The automaker is staking a claim to that future with a plug-in hybrid drivetrain it calls Twin Drive. It will debut in a Golf fitted with a 122-horsepower diesel engine and an 82-horsepower electric motor.
"While the e-motor on a typical hybrid model just supplements the combustion engine, the exact opposite is true on Twin Drive," Winterkorn said during the car's unveiling in Berlin. "Here the diesel or gasoline engine supplements the e-motor."
Start-stop technology will save power and regenerative braking will help generate it. VW says the car will use lithium-ion batteries and have an all-electric range of 31 miles. The company recently signed a deal with Sanyo to develop li-ion batteries; the electronics company plans to begin production next year and says it will spend $769 million on the effort during the next seven years.
Winterkorn says VW will have a demonstration test fleet of 20 Twin Drive Golfs on the road by 2010, but there's no word yet on whether the car will see production. Still, Germany's Interior Ministry is eager to see plug-in hybrids on the road ASAP, so it's announced a $23.5 million dollar program to help VW and other automakers develop such vehicles within four years. Germany's environmental minister, Sigmar Gabriel, says there could be 1 million hybrids on the road in Germany by 2020 and 10 million a decade after that.
Photos by Volkswagen.
Do you really think the US car makers aren't getting their fair share of tax breaks?
Yeah there is definitely no advantage to the big three not coming together to develop something that brings us a giant step away from oil dependency. I'm glad that VW is stepping up and showing everyone else how it's done. Hopefully the Chevy Volt will do the same thing. Imagine the roads filled with quiet, clean, and effecient cars that run on energy produced locally. Seems like a giant dream right now.
But...but...if all the cars run on locally produced energy then who will we invade in order to appease Big Oil and the Military-Industrial complex?
I doubt that the $23.5 million being supported by the German government goes very far toward development of a hybrid vehicle.
The big three need no help, they need a hit in the pocketbook. If they can compete in a free market, then they should fold. Same with the airline industry, same with the real estate market, same with financial institutions. US tax dollars are not there to bail out bad management.
Typo: meant to say "can't compete".
J-Bob.
You missed my point.
I'm not suggesting the US Government bails out the US big 3 auto makers.
My point was how can the 3 US automakers compete in innovative designs such as the GM Volt that costs a whole friggen amount of money when foreign automakers get their development costs subsidized by their governments.
I don't think Japanese car makers got any subsidies to make their hybrids. Detroit was asleep at the wheel for too long, pushing their gas guzzling dinosaurs instead of developing high mpg cars. Its their own fault for the mess they are in, but at least they are finally working on high mpg cars now (now that their very survival depends on it). I don't see any reason for me the tax payer to pay detroit for their own shortsightedness.
"Here the diesel or gasoline engine supplements the e-motor."
Wait, so it's a series hybrid like the Volt or my thesis concept http://phrancis.com/CataVidPlayer.html , where it's really an EV with on on-board gas or diesel generator to extend the range?
$23.5 million? That's nothing. The federal government's Freedom Car initiative spends about 10 times that each year.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/03/nrc-report-says.html
And there are or will be more tax breaks for battery production, hybrid production, etc.
The people in this board who are going about Detroit this and Detroit that would never buy an American car anyway. I bet for all the demands by people that GM build an electric car no-one will buy on. The "green" demographic does not buy american cars. Just an observation.
//I do not buy american cars. I buy quality Japanese cars
31 miles on a charge? Get real. That would not get me to work and back.
Bill: funny you should say that- this is exactly what I'm looking for in a car. 31 miles is more than enough for my habits, and not having to use the diesel engine unless necessary sounds great.
I wonder how much this will cost.
Would it get you to work, though? Because if enough people were using EV vehicles, workplaces and city carparks etc. would install charging points so you could top up while at work. The EV vehicle culture needs an infrastructure to grow alongside it in the same way that petrol stations appeared last century as cars became more common. The big shortcoming that is being addressed with batteries is the need for affordable batteries that don't take hours to recharge.
(my comment was addressed to Bill above guy :) )
Since the US takes care of a huge chunk of their defense budget, in effect, we are subsidizing these projects too.
@Mattnnz: I'd buy a Volt today if it were available and competitively priced. As is, I suspect Toyota will get my dollars for the '09 Prius.
Wake me up when the US gets it's act together...
A movement in the right direction, but we are still too reliant on oil.
@ Padmavyuha: Actually, that's the main advantage of gas/diesel hybrids and PHEVs, in that one can run on the existing petroleum and electric infrastructure while new ones are being created.
30 miles on electric by itself would take care of about 80% of daily commutes.
Mattnnz, I think your statement shows one of two things. Either your a complete moron, or your a rightwing moron. You could call me "gambling" Bill Bennett but I'd put my money on the latter.
You see I'm one of the people who you are referring to, I(we) own two Honda's (CR-V and a Civic). The main reason... I cannot afford to buy an American car... the lifetime of the car (illustrated by the resale value/lack of depreciation) is the main reason. That and years of my parents and I owning American cars that break down all the damn time (though this reality may be changing as we speak).
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be a dick but your assumption that I wouldn't be willing to buy an American car is insulting considering track record of American cars versus some foreign cars.
Right now, if I can save up enough, I am seriously hoping to purchase a Chevy Volt... why the hell didn't GM start pursuing this avenue 5-10 years ago I'll never know.
The big three automakers have been making small cars and selling them outside the US for years.
For example,look at the ford site in the UK, they have four(!) different models getting better than 60 mpg, and five getting between 44 & 50 mpg.
See for yourself:
http://www.ford.co.uk/
Big oil runs the US government and the pentagon. We are treated like stupid sheep.
Screw the Chevy Volt, that thing is going to cost upwards of $40,000, FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS!!
$80,000 to 100,000 for the Tesla?
Screw them.
I have NO intention of paying that much for a car and no one else should either. Car companies charge that much for cars because people are stupid enough to pay that much for a car.....
I'll look for ANY alternatives before I pay $30,000 or more for a car.
You can't trust Detroit to "get it". They had the energy crisis in the 70's to get a clue. Instead they relaxed the drive for energy efficiency with aerodynamics and alternative energy cars for making money in luxury gas guzzlers. I feel it's just fruits if GM goes belly up in the face of competition offering cheaper, greener, and more energy efficient vehicles. Detroit squandered their "head start" in this technology race years ago.
@MichaelLong: now come on.... did you make up 80% or did you hear it from a reporter on a super liberal news channel that made it up?
Doug is right , we screw ourselves by being WILLING to spend that much on products. As an example , I can send $1,000 to mexico for $10, OR i can send $200 to NEW Mexico (im in AZ) for $12.99. Why you might ask? Because the mexicans WONT spend that much , so the companies lower prices to secure a market. We screw ourselves..... If noone paid $40K for cars , they WOULD NOT cost that much. I understand cost of production is a factor, none the less in a competitive market companies WILL find a way to gain sales.
@Mattnnz
"The "green" demographic does not buy american cars. Just an observation."
That is true, simply for the fact the greenest cars aren't American. Make sure you understand the cause and effect here.
Whenever I shop for cars I check out US automakers, and they don't have any high mpg cars (as in more than the low 30's). I'd consider the chevy volt if it wasn't so damn expensive.
Leave it to neo-con(artist)s like @IMakeUpStatistics to make the discussion about them vs. the "super liberal" media, as opposed to really trying to work together to get to the root of the issue which is more about, "are there solutions that can work for much of the population, most of the time? And how best can that happen?"
Funny how GM was at the forefront of electric vehicle technology nearly 10 years ago (www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com) but decided to scrap the effort due to big oil pressures, and now look at the mess they're in ...
@JohnO
Don't forget that they're using British mpg.So 60 (British) mpg = 50 US mpg. That being said, I totally agree with you JohnO. What they offer across the pond is amazing. I wish it was easier to import...
N Murray-- the EV died because it wasn't practical, was too expensive and simply didn't make sense in a market with $1/gal gasoline.
John 0 and others:
Yes, US carmakers do have models that sell outside the US that have great gas mileage. The fact they don't sell them in the US is no conspiracy. They don't sell here because those cars don't meet regulations or either don't meet liability standards. In other words, blame regulators and trial lawyers.
@Bill
Are you stupid? 31 miles on a charge for full electric power. If you drive, say, 40 miles to work and back, the diesel engine inside would power the car, with help from the electric motor, for those extra nine miles. But hey, screw it, if I can't get almost all the way to work and back using zero gas, I might as well keep driving my 10 mpg SUV every day.
One thing I just noticed-- this friggin' VW is an automatic! How much energy would we be saving if we all switched back to manual transmissions?
Those display panels are neat, but what's with "1/1" instead of simply "full" or "1"?
@Bill: Right, because it's not like you can use electricity for the first 31 miles, then switch to diesel for the remainder of the trip, saving a significant amount of fuel.
Wealth of incompetent boobs online today. Case in point, TR Bob, or as I like to call him, EN BOB. Which is short for Economics Nimrod, Bastion of the Bong.
USING THE WRONG BATTERIES.
Lithium is unproven, why don't they use proven PEVE or SAFT Nickel Metal Hydride batteries?
Instead of taking a chance on batteries that don't exist, why not use the standard, proven EV battery, the only one that goes over 100,000 miles in an EV that goes up to 80 mph.
@Sean
I'm sure it has a CVT or continuously variable transmission. This allows the engine, when running, to always operate at it's ideal speed and therefore is more efficient than a manual transmission.
My two cents its great that you can go 31 miles with no gas but you also have to remember how much electric is going to cost. These cars would need a huge amount of Kw to generate that much energy. Not to mention that if every car was electric we would need more power plants higher voltage power lines and more substations etc. This would all cost a huge amount of money which will drive electric rates up. @ doug the reason they use lithium is because the batteries produce more power and are lighter meaning more mpg.
BTW some fire departments are no longer allowed to pull people out of accidents that are driving a hybrid b/c of all the high voltage lines that run through the car that can easily kill them.
McCain proposes 300 million for a better LI ion battery and then congress approves 160 Billion for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Where are our governments priorities? I will be so glad when these republicans are kicked out, let's see what the democrats can do for a while.
lithium batteries sucks ,,,why?? when you first purchase a new laptop computer, you notice that the batteries last for hours, the more you use them the more they loose capacity, so eventually in one year (aprox) you'll have to replace the batteries and it cost like $200 .. that sucks .. i dont wanna know how much it will cost to replace the VW lithium battery ..
screw them , Ni-MH batteries last longer and they are really cheap...
great, all we need is a german-made Prius-equivilent so that all the semi-educated urban vermin can invade the countryside on the weekends guilt-free with their indirectly carbon-producing conveyances.
It was bad enough a few years ago when they all drove 18-MPG BMWs and Audis, now they drive all drive Pririi.
However, most Prius owners are starting to feel a creeping guilt that their primary mode of transportation still does, in fact, utilize that certain evil environment-destroying hydrocarbon.
Thus, a plug-in charging conveyance (made by an uber-cool (and more importantly non-american) european conglomerate corporate) completely removes the agonizing moral crisis experienced with every trip to the gas station.
No dirty petroleum-derived fuels, no weekly moral crisis. The coal, oil, or nuclear-powered power station generating the CO2 that powers the outlet in the garage of their SOMA condo is safely out of site across the bay.
Plug it in! As easy as buying organic free-range chicken breasts from Whole Foods!
THIS CAR IS REALLY AWESOME AND AMAZING TECHNOLOGY! http://www.spymac.com/details/?2367442
@TRbob
i would suggest filing a mil research plan to fund similar project
should not be so difficult out of 600bn of defense budget
The problem with American cars is that they use ancient technology, compared to European or Japanese cars. I randomly went to the Lincoln site.
Have a look at the new "Town Car": a 4.6L V8 engine that produces a 239HP and 287 torque, has a 4-speed transmission and does 23mpg on the highway!
A german 3l diesel engine will give you 50% more torque, equal power, comes with a 6- or 7-speed transmission and gives you 40-60mpg depending on the model and configuration.
I get better mileage and performance from my 12-year old V6 Audi compared to that brand new Lincoln. We don't need batteries, we just need US car giants to start using what engines the put in their European models to their American ones.
@Clayton Spinler: you are absolutely right.
However the final goal here is to get rid of energy dependency (for environmental and political stability). We (consumers) are not going to change our habits so quickly. The industry, on the other hand, has a much quicker turnaround time.
So yes, all we are doing is redirecting the problem somewhere else. Instead of smoke coming out of our cars, they come out of power plants. But it's much easier for for the powerplant to become more efficient. Power can be generated in many ways. If technology changes, the powerplant will switch painlessly. Look at the power coming out of our outlet: 50 years ago we didn't use solar or wind generated power. Now we do, and the best thing is, the consumer didn't have to do a damn thing!
-Matt
GM Already kinda has one... There was a Saab plug in hybrid convertible that their engineers released in Trollhotten, Sweden...
The vehicle had a similar setup... Same FWD with an electric engine in the rear which could drive the vehicle for 50 miles or something.
This increased performance dramatically and acted like an AWD system... It increased fuel efficency as well AND by building it in a convertible they proved it didn't use much space.
GM ordered them to cover up the port and say nothing about it...
Here's our priorities:
Energy Policy 2005: 12 Billion. Seems like a lot, huh?
Iraq War Bill: 1 TRILLION Last estimate I heard, always changing!
Too bad there wasn't a "Manhattan Project" type effort to get the US back in the lead to new renewable energy and out of big oil. Sigh.
While a motorscooter isn't everyone's most practical cup of tea, there's a domestically made full electric model available now from Vectrix. You can go anywhere from 20 to 60 miles on a charge, depending on your speed and the driver's weight. www.vectrix.com
lithium ion batteries are proven tech...people just abuse their laptops and cell phones. if you properly discharge and recharge every now an then, the battery lasts significantly longer. my original laptop battery is going on it's third year, with still 2+ hours of operation. maybe it's the quality or just luck, but i love li-ion batteries. my old NiMH batteries sucked big time.
and we will never get our hand out of big oil until we balance our federal budget. OPEC and everyone that buys from them, including us, are paying on the U.S. debt in a deal worked out decades ago. until our politicians pull their collective heads out of their asses, we will be stuck in this charade.
@the voice in your pants
The only voice in my pants is when I had too many refried beans. It can sound impressive, but generally it just stinks. Same with you.
But I did post my original or subsequent comment just so fart bags can spout stench.
My comment has to do withvarious individuals or groups who bemoan the US government bailing out local industries for what ever reason, then give praise to foreign industries as to how profitable they are, but either aren't aware or just ignore the fact that in most foreign countries, those industries have support from their government so as to compete with an advantage of being partially subsidized.
Please don't label me a conservative or republican or any abusive name for wanting to support businesses here in Aamerica that employs Americans. Already, I see way too much "Made in China", "Made in Japan", etc and rarely do I find a "Made in America" item.
There was a time when Americans built high quality products and were proud of those products.
I would be opening myself up to all sorts of flames if I were to even hint at the fact that unions are responsible for a lot of our industries going overseas, our quality of products deterioating to where even "Made in China" is getting more respect.
So rather than saying "American cars sucks" and then buy foreign made car, if enough American voices were to tell the American car companies, "Your cars suck becasue of poor gas mileage, crappy construction, low resale value, etc, etc" then maybe they'll get the hint.
The main problem is the 3 US automakers already know it. They are stribing hard to compete. Cept it's hard to compete and build quality products when one's employees go on strike or the union dictates to the company how the company should be run.
Now before anyone dumps on me for my non-union stance, you need to ask youself "Do I support unions here in the US, but then go ahead and buy cars and other products that aren't made by non-union companies?"
@Dave,
I hate to break your bubble but the democrats basically control both houses and most of them voted for the military spending bill.
Additionally, Obama is pro-ethanol as his State is a primary corn producing State.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/us/politics/23ethanol.html
Don't get me wrong, I would rather our energy needs are home grown and not imported, yet when a Presidential candidate already has ties to an industry that is indirectly driving up food prices...
In a post, someone said that the "green people" would not buy an American car. That is simply not true. I have got my name on a 2009 escape hybrid which will get me 34MPG in the city - I'm trading in my truck. I also have a BMW M5 which is a total gas pig - if the Volt is built I WILL buy one - and trade in my BMW on it!!! The problem is most American cars look like crap, drive like crap and retain their value like crap. When the US automakers actually build a car that looks nice, handles well and retains it's value it gets purchased and I'm a perfect case in point.
Go back to school. Management (bean counters) decide on what gets build from all the 'cool' designs submitted. Even when a 'cool' design is o.k'd, it's bastardized to make it cheap. Unions are tho only reason this country HAD a middle class.
Oh, and take some time to understand that democrats to not have enough votes in the senate to override the republicans. Maybe next time.
Its all Bush's fault for high oil and gas prices. Modern day Hitler.
I've said for about 5 years now I will be in line for the first all electric car that can be charged overnight on 220v power in my house, drive 100 miles at highway speeds on that charge and cost less than $30k.
I will keep my gas powered car for long trips but the above would meet 90% of all my driving requirements.
"[S]ome fire departments are no longer allowed to pull people out of accidents that are driving a hybrid b/c of all the high voltage lines," give me a break, @Clayton S., here in the Denver metro area there is a fire chief who drives a Prius AND has been instrumental (at least in this area) in getting fire-fighters trained on how to extricate crash victims from hybrids. By your logic, they'd let truck drivers in tankers die and people in houses with gas lines suffocate or burn to death because they were afraid of "the danger." Uh, that's what they are trained to deal with, within reason. In fact, hybrids are far less of a danger than those other scenarios I threw out precisely because you CAN identify where the likely dangers are and can mitigate those dangers. Gasoline and natural gas can be far more volatile. Also, @Clayton, the idea is to eventually build up an alternative & renewable energy industry to support the greater electrical needs. No, we don't have the infrastructure in place now, but with time we will. Heck, eventually I would like solar panels (or something) on my property to provide energy for my house AND my car. Will that happen tomorrow? No. Can it happen if we have a goal of trying to get there? Absolutely it can. That's the point: if we don't have a goal we will NEVER get there. I'm not attacking you, Clayton, it is just my opinion that you might be a little misguided. Besides, coal plants are still more efficient and produce less CO2 than that gasoline (or, yes, even diesel) engine in your car when compared evenly.
On the other hand, @alpinex, you are just an idiot. Is it your suggestion that we should just give up changing our ways and burn all the oil we can in the biggest SUVs we can find? Are your friends' or family's children & grandchildren OK with that suggestion? Or, do you even have enough brain-power to understand where I'm going with that argument?
@Sean, yes it's a friggin' automatic transmission because auto-transmissions (whether CVT or otherwise) are, usually, more friggin' efficient. :)
Check out "CITY CAT", "MOTOR DEVELOPMENT INTERNATIONAL", and "TATA MOTORS" on Google. I believed Electric was the answer til I came accross this. More cost effective and more green. Spread the word if you agree.
I don't care who pays for it. I want this car so bad.
Umm, plug in hybrid? Lets see... I guess the electricity that goes from that socket comes from magic? No... it comes from oil and fosil fuel burning plants that still keep us dependant and still harm the environment. Until we go more nuclear, plug in vehicles make no significant difference in the long run.
The politicians are all for sale to the highest bidders. The idea of "doing the right thing" for the American people and the environment is not an issue for them. The issue for those who control our politicians is how to perpetually make more millions/billions. Clean, high speed, energy efficient public transportation for example, threatens corporate america - especially the oil, auto, and insurance industries. The last thing they want is for us to ride bicycles and use public transportation. Go to Europe and you can see how easy it is for people to live comfortably without even owning a car. We are being milked in the USA by shrewd, extremely greedy, and unprincipled people who think that the accumalation of money is the highest good- that winners are the ones wiht the most money.
Doug-- Are you kidding or just ill-informed? Manual transmissions nearly always beat out automatics in terms of better economy and give you better control of your car to boot.
Marc-- The Honda Civic HX was less efficient in the CVT form, compared to the manual. Is this just a matter of the average person being too stupid to know how to use a manual?
Bill, thanks for reading and not comprehending anything from the article. Idiot.
31 miles is the range running at full electric. Beyond that the diesel will be used to drive the vehicle. Even with a conservative 10 gallon fuel tank the car should travel > 500 miles before needing any fuel.
And sorry Sean, Automatics have improved greatlt in the past 10 years - you may want to stop being yet another idiot. It is quite common now for a manual transmission to get worse mileage than an electronic automatic in the otherwise exact same vehicle.
All transmissions that require torque converter (i.e. oil pump coupled with turbine) are less efficient comparing to manual transmissions. But VW's directschaltung is automatic that does not depend on torque converter, and it is extremely efficient. It is essentially a manual transmission controlled by a computer, with two sets of gear shifting equipment, leading to extremely fast transmission times.
I have a honda insight 5 spd. While it gets much better milleage than the CVT version (in real world use, since the CVT never does lean burn mode), keep in mind you only charge the battery when braking when the car is in gear. Which means I have to downshift like crazy to keep it charged up during city driving.
If they can make a more efficient automatic , say a 6-7 speed dual clutch automatic, then the slight decrease in efficiency would be made up by the greater recharging of the batteries in city use.
2 -4 years is to long to wait for these cars to hit the road. During WWII we could design a airplane and have it flying in 6 months.
Global warming is likely to increase illegal immigration, create humanitarian disasters and destabilize precarious governments and could add to terrorism, all of which could threaten U.S. national security, according to an assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies.
"Logic suggests the conditions exacerbated (by climate change) would increase the pool of potential recruits for terrorism," said Tom Fingar, deputy director of national intelligence for analysis, who testified before a joint House committee hearing Wednesday.
The national intelligence assessment on the national security implications of global climate change through 2030 is one of a series of periodic intelligence reports that offer the consensus judgment of top analysts at all 16 U.S. spy agencies on major foreign policy, security and global economic issues. Congress requested the report last year. The assessment is classified "confidential."
Boris, you are so wrong. First, oil isn't used in electricity production in any significant quantity. Coal, however,is but using electric in cars places the emissions in one place, the plant, instead of in hundreds of thousands. Easier to attach scrubbers to one plant that's outside town than to boatloads of cars all around the region. As for dependence, we've got all the coal we'll need for over 300 years without technology improvement.
I wish VW would have simply not voided the warranty on my Passat TDI when I mod'd it for SVO.
Hey Chuck, I found it just a little irritating how your article was set up. In your opening paragraph, you mention that VW plans to have this car on the road by 2010. I start to salivate. You mention this thing going 31 miles on nothing but electric, ooooo! My commute paid for courtesy of the electic company! I'm quivering with delight. Then on your final paragraph comes the kick in the groin: VW will only be making a fleet of twenty cars by 2010 and there's no word about whether they'll actually make any for the public. You bastard! You got me all worked up! :)
On a more serious note, the reason American Auto Inc. didn't start developing/producing these cars in the past decade is simple. Ten years ago, our economy was booming, the internet bubble was swelling, and everyone had money. Five years ago, we had just invaded Iraq, oil was going to be nice and cheap thanks to our quick move and we were going to be world heroes for deposing a hated dictator. And now? The US dollar is on par with Canada's, the stock market is falling from its once dizzying heights while the price of oil leaps into the air, the war that was supposed to take six months still isn't over and people are getting grouchy.
Necessity breeds invention. We need a cheap means of transport now, one that isn't reliant on petroleum and since public transportation is a dirty phrase in America, we have to wait for private industry to catch up. The price of gas only doubled from $2 to $4 in the past year and no automaker can move that fast. And before the folks from Europe start saying, "What are you complaining for? We're paying x for gasoline.", keep in mind that years ago, the Euro ate the Dollar for breakfast and then went out for a real meal. With oil trading in American dollars, Europe is not hurting quite as badly as America is.
@MichaelLong
@IMakeUpStatistics
It seems according to the super-liberal government, 89% of US commuters have one-way commutes in range of the electric power alone on this car.
Not trying to troll, just dropping in a fact.
http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/figure_02.html
1 - $23.5 million is for German automakers, not just VW.
2 - $23.5 million is rounding error on a new car program.
3 - 122 horsepower diesel is bigger than they need for a hybrid Golf. Once again a car company that doesn't understand the requirement. You don't start with a performance hybrid.
alpinex...
so long as buying foreign over American puts right-wing, kulturkampf assclowns like yourself out of work and makes your families go hungry, so much the better.
jmc... way to show that liberal compassion.
Everyone that has power in America Worships money above all. It is completely obvious when reading finance blogs and reading these ignorant higher class people's comments. Nano Solar power could be applied directly to the bodies of these electric cars. But is any body even looking into it?
Steve, you couldn't be more wrong about the future of coal-- firstly, those "300 year" figures have been overblown and there is some evidence to suggest that we may not even have but several decades of coal left at current usage, which leads me to my next point-- we are going to use more coal to replace the 22% of the electrical production we get from natural gas which is depleting on our continent. We are going to use more coal as the places which formerly relied upon fuel oil for heat (and eventually, places which rely upon natural gas for this) will switch to electric heat. Finally, ignoring all that I just wrote above, do you honestly think we'll have "300 years" of coal if we start powering a hundred million cars with coal-derived electricity? Just do the math. And none of this even *considers* the climate-change aspects...
Tomislav-- what the hell is wrong with a regular manual transmission? Do we really wish to rely upon even more high-tech wizardry just to shift gears? Why not keep it simple?
Jesus Josh, yet there are people looking into it, and with the current energy climate you can be damned sure that nano solar would already be on the market if it were viable. Wishful thinking isn't going to solve this problem. The future is going to require sacrifices (i.e. walking, bicycling, using mass transit, growing some of your food, doing without air conditioning, etc.)
USA - Unbelievably Substandard Automobiles.
Aplinex - if you live in the Bay Area, you might want to ACTUALLY KNOW some facts about its energy sources. California's electric grid is the CLEANEST in all 50 states, less than 10% coal, mostly natural gas, NO OIL.
And even if the coal and natural gas DO cause global warming, last I checked, they come from the U.S. or Canada, not Hamas, Hezbollah, Ahamdinejad, Al Qaeda or Saudi princes rich enough to have their own private 747s and submarines. So, yeah, I'll Plug in my car and feel smug about it in "your" countryside.
And TR Bob - you are an ass... I still remember your comment about going after a Prius driver with a sledgehammer - LOL I'd like to see yo do that with me, as I carry an AR-15 in the hatch of my Prius and a 9mm on my person :0
Why do you need that many horses on a GOLF, too?
And, PHEVs are no good for usapartment dwellers.
Sean - I agree that manual transmission is quite ok. But trust me, VW's "direct schaltung" is something really cool. As most of computer controlled transmissions (unlike with typical American anemic 4-gear hydraulic transmission) you can select gear on your own (if you want it to work this way).
.
Basically, there are two good things here:
- extremely fast transition times (comparable to F1 car)
- many gear ratios (typically 6, but there are variants with 7 or 8) which leads to better utilization of the engine, as it works in best RPM for the most of the time. Manual transmission with more than 6 gears would be really too much to handle, IMO.
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As a thing against, we can say that manual transmission is dirt cheap and that even with typical 5 gears it can bring fuel economy to really cool levels, esp. for diesel engine. As a prime example, there is a Renault's Logan diesel "eco2" variant. Logan is their cheapest model, they don't even sell it in Western Europe! In this variant (but with the cutting edge engine) it breaks records:
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Renault-Logan-eco2-Sets-New-CO2-Emissions-Record.html
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Here is the Wikipedia link for direct schaltung: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox
Wow... seems that most people around here haven't figured out what a hyperlink is:
It is a DSG transmission. One of the new computer-shifted double clutch manual transmissions. It has been tested to be more efficient then the normal VW manual trans.
http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10283
The car is NOT a series hybrid, but a parallel one:
"Unlike a typical hybrid, where the electric motor and internal combustion engine have the ability to supplement each other for maximum output, the two individual powertrains in the Golf Twin Drive hybrid are isolated and work separately."
You will find that you can learn the answers to many of your questions by just clicking on those funny BLUE WORDS. This information may also help dispel any false assumptions some people would seem to have.
BTW WIRED, why did you change the title of this article from "VW Rolls Out a Sweet Hybrid" to "VW Rolls Out a Backward Hybrid" after it was posted?
tsk, tsk...
Maybe I missed it but one element I don't see anyone looking at there. Lets take Los Angeles and give 30% of the population a plug in car. I hope everyone likes to have rolling black outs becuase our power grid is not ready for everyone to have a plug in car. How many billions of dollars is that going to cost and the governement is going to have to pick up that tab.
Here are some solutions...http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=solar-power-lightens-up-with-thin-film-cells
There is also significant development of Utracapacitors. but please don't invest in any of this until I do! I like this site!
Brian - power grid is designed to maximum load, but load varies significantly during the day. If most of the drivers plug their cars overnight (and in most countries electricity costs you less during the night, I don't know if it is the case in USA), power grid will handle that very well. But if most of our cars become plug-ins, some work on the grid will be necessary. But that will not happen overnight, electric cars will replace existing ones at some rate so it will give enough time for electrical companies to meet the demand.
How about we not subsidize and industry too stupid to learn from their mistakes int he late 70's when they had to switch from the large muscule cars to smaller cars.
My tax dollars should not go to American companies who were too short sighte and hedged their entire product lines on gas guzzling SUVs and trucks. Screw them.
Did they really think 2 billion Chinese and Indians were going to ride bikes forever and not buy cars that compete for gas? They should have seen it coming when those countries drove up the deman for aluminium, plastic, and steel 10 years ago.
Also the Volt is a stupid idea. GM is placing its reputation on it. Yes it will sell a lot in the beginning, but as more hybrids come out it will lose its appeal. The problem it is a two door car and impractical. Did they not learn why people did not buy the Honda Insight and prefered the Prius for its four door convenience? Dumb GM. Typical dumb American car company.
I am sick and tired of hearing the ingorant speak that big oil runs our Govt. Big Oil does not run our govt. Petroleum giants had record profits only because of one reason; world demand. More sales equal more profit. Very basic folks. It kills me that so many just don't get it. Countries like China and India started to purchase two and three times more crude, then they did before. Once again, The US does not dictate how much or little other countries buy, so quit the stupid and mindless chatter about how big oil runs this country. Also, The US does not set the light crude pricing. OPEC does. So now people think that the US controls OPEC? GAWWWWD Just read any blog and you will understand another huge problem of this country; the education system. It kills me to know that The US spends more dollars per student than any other country, yet we are 10th in the world's best educated countries. It only proves how stupid the general population really is. I wish so many would take their heads out of their a$$es and start thinking soundly. First off, the US govt collects more money per gallon of gas sold than anything associated with big oil. Why do you think there was a big push on both sides of the political spectrum to adopt the idiocy of Ethanol production? Bueller Bueller anyone? Bueller... The answer is simple and shame on all of you for not getting the answer right. Ethanol was the alternative energy choice adopted because it did not interfere with the current tax system. (They might say the refueling infrastructure exists and would be easier to transition to, but really now... I have not even seen an Ethanol refueling station when I drive by 10 gas stations every mile on Route 17 in Northern, NJ.) While big oil earns aprox. 7-9 cents per gallon, the govt (federal, state, county, and local) collects 30, 40 and 50 cents or more per gallon just because it is sold. Who are the crooks here? It is both sides of the political spectrum. Tax and spend liberals are not even considering tax breaks on gas, but they are pushing big oil to spend more and more money on researching alternative fuels even though the govt (federal, state, county, and local) themselves collect up to SIX times the amount in dollars that the oil companies do. Pathetic! The libs want big oil to take a chunk of their 8 cents per gallon and spend it on alternate fuel programs (nevermind the lunacy of Obama's windfall tax program) all the while the govt that collects upwards of 50 cents per gallon is not going to even come close in spending what they are demanding that big oil spends for alternate energy research? This govt is broken. Both parties have lost touch with their people and what is realistic. The Senate cannot even run their Dinning Room without multimillion dollar bailouts. If they can't even run a restaurant, then how are they running this country? INTO THE GROUND!!! It's time to do what every Oil Rich country in the Middle East is doing; that is build more nuclear reactors. Why is it that countries that are petroleum rich are RACING to build energy producing reacotrs? Yep, it makes me wonder.
What is even the point of this? Why am I wasting my time spelling this out for people? Nothing is going to change. The left are going to call the right sheeps for not thinking yet they will regurgitate the leftover vomit that the democrats upchuck on them in their campaign promises.
I have Solar panels covering my roof ready for my plug-in hybrid :)
having a diesel hybrid sounds good, makes it easier to run alternate fuels
The UNIONS are what makes American cars cost more, not the American government. People that can be trained to do their job in 2 weeks shouldn't make 30 bucks an hour. Wonder who the first of the big 3 to go under will be? My money's on Chrysler.
Check this babe under water:
http://www.bangbull.com/details/30287-BE4/Sexy_babe_under_water.html
EDITOR: Joe Brown | 
"...and the German government's written a big check to make it happen."
Hmmm... and US Auto makers have to foot the entire bill themselves, thus making their vehicles cost more than overseas competitors.
How about we petition own own government to subsidize GM, Ford, and Chrystler for their own plug-in hybrid.
Rather then tax credits down stream, just subsidize the development at the source so that the cars would cost roughly the same to the end user.