Will Dallas ISD Ever Rename Its Confederate Schools?

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you were saying???

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a school, or a major park, named after Robert E. Lee.  He did nothing dishonorable, was against slavery, and only served the Confederacy because he had been the commanding general of the Virginia militia (military), and Virginia ended up in the CSA.

Any student of American history recognizes that Robert E. Lee was a highly respected general during - and after - the Civil War.  In fact, history records that the Union soldier who held Lee's horse saluted him, and was very respectful.  The somewhat scant history of the surrender at Appomattox was, from what we know, quite civilized and respectful.  In fact, Lee was allowed to keep his sword. 

Many of today's students don't understand that Lee was an honor graduate of West Point, and personally knew several of the generals for the Union.    

This nonsense of changing history by making it disappear is absurd, and dangerous.  It's Orwellian, in fact.  

Lee Park has been a prominent Dallas Park since before WWII, and it is replete with a huge metal statue of Robert E. Lee.  I don't hear a clamor to change its name. 

@rufuslevin Don't forget the fine Castro Brothers, and Viceroy of Venezuela Violence.  

@kduble Napolean, Alexander, and Rommel were not Americans.  And, frankly, neither was Caesar Chavez.  He may have been born here, but he wasn't an American in spirit.

@noblefurrtexas I think what you meant to say was "He wasn't a conservative white guy in spirit"

@noblefurrtexas 

And, frankly, neither was Caesar Chavez. He may have been born here, but he wasn't an American in spirit

Cesar Chavez was an American citizen, and in his lifetime was a positive contributor to our nation.

For you to deride his contributions says a ton about how you lack this "America...spirit" you speak of.

@Stonewall @noblefurrtexas A number of Union soldiers died of disease or botched medical treatment.  But, the South - with many fewer troops - killed more Union soldiers than their own losses. 

Remember, the North invaded the South, and it is a fact of military scholarship and experience that people defending their own territory and homes fight with more ferocity, and certainly know the terrain better. 

The no question Lee was an excellent general, and have every intention of driving the North back to their own states and barracks.  He came close to succeeding.

@observist @noblefurrtexas That's not what I meant at all. But, your phrasing is precisely correct.

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas Caesar Chavez was a union agitator and a Communist.  He may have technically been an American, but he acted like a Marxist Latino. 

Caesar Chavez significantly raised the cost of California produce, and looked for reasons to frustrate the growing industry in California. 

@Guesty @noblefurrtexas What a stupid and vacant thing to say. 

Benedict Arnold was a traitor.  Jane Fonda was a traitor.  Sgt. Bergdahl is a traitor.  But, Robt. E. Lee was no traitor. 

General Lee was the commander of the Virginia military.  When they joined the Confederacy, Lee was practically drafted to be the commanding general of the Confederate troops.  He answered the call because he was loyal to Virginia, despite his opposition to slavery. 

It is certainly clear he was the better commanding general in the war.  And, he was commanding farmers, merchants, and only a few people with military experience. But, because they were fighting to protect their homes and hold the Constitution accountable for what it said, they fought with unusual ferocity, and Gen. Lee won accolades from both sides as to his military skills. 

So, you see, you're quite wrong. 

@Guesty @noblefurrtexas 

This comment to me demonstrates that you may not fully understand how people looked at the relationship between the individual states and the federal government.

The federal government was originally intended to be limited in power, not the overwhelming, overarching behemoth that it is now.

Prior to the War of Northern Aggression, people thought of themselves as first citizens of the state in which they lived and then as citizens of this thing called the United States of America.

Another interesting item in grammar is that before the War of Southern Rebellion (see, I gave both sides equal billing), America was often grammatically expressed as "The United States of America are ..."; whereas afterwards, it was expressed as "The United States of America is ...".  Notice the difference that using the singular vs. the plural has on the meaning of "The United States of America".

In conclusion, for people like Lee, they considered themselves, first Virginians, and secondly Americans.  Even though Lee (and Jackson) were commissioned officers in the US Army, they felt that there allegiance belonged to Virginia.

@rufuslevin @Stonewall @noblefurrtexas Sherman was the Adolph Eichmann of the North.  He killed men, women, children, dogs, and horses, burned houses, churches, schools, and government buildings, destroyed records in courthouses, destroyed crops and the fields where they grew, and left bodies and animal carcasses everywhere. 

This is what Northerners considered being an effective general.

@noblefurrtexas

But, the South - with many fewer troops - killed more Union soldiers than their own losses. 

that's an interesting pov.

if you were a Southern soldier you had an 82% probability of being killed in the War.

if you were a northern soldier you had a 39% probability of being killed in the War.

@fred.garvin.mp.713 I am the first to admit that - while the South was winning the war for some time, it eventually faced the results of unscrupulous thugs like Sherman who violated all norms by destroying civilians homes, businesses, and raping Southern women. 

The North destroyed the Southern railroads, and it certainly interrupted Southern supply lines.  But, the Southern soldiers never - to my knowledge - intentionally killed civilians, burned their homes and churches and schools, and assaulted mothers, wives, and daughters like the Union did.

@noblefurrtexas ... Chavez was more of an American -- literally and figuratively -- than you'll ever be.

@noblefurrtexas

Caesar Chavez was a union agitator and a Communist.  He may have technically been an American, but he acted like a Marxist Latino. 

@texaswolf2010 @Guesty @noblefurrtexas Lee didn't need to be pardoned.  But, Gerald Ford needed to be in rehab and pardoning himself.

@ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul @Guesty @noblefurrtexas Well stated.

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas The two don't correlate as I think you think they do.  For example, Southern soldiers served longer days, took on more missions, had poorer quality military hospitals, and had less experience in fighting as combat units. All of those would increase the "chance" of being killed.  

But, they killed many more Union soldiers than the other way around.

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas Then why did the South kill so many more soldiers than the Union army di Southerners?

@noblefurrtexas @fred.garvin.mp.713

But, the Southern soldiers never - to my knowledge - intentionally killed civilians, burned their homes and churches and schools, and assaulted mothers, wives, and daughters like the Union did. 

Champ Ferguson, Silas Gordon, James Keith, Nathan Bedford Forrest. All Confederate, all known to have committed war crimes against civilians.

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas @mavdog @ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul you'll have to forgive Noblefurr, he cant help himself, the racism just finds a way into his comments

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas First of all, I'm not particularly fond of unions.  Second, I earned my American citizenship serving in combat in the military.  Chavez wasn't so much as a Boy Scout. 

And, third, Chavez was - indeed - a Marxist in practice, and some people believe in name.

I don't doubt the migrant and immigrant farm workers were exploited by some growers.  But, we're talking about unskilled labor at the lowest level, so they weren't worth much more than farm animals in economic terms.....not human terms.

If you're looking for Latino families who distinguished themselves through hard work and industrious attitudes, how about the Cuellars, the Martinez family, and large numbers of Mexicans who came here legally, worked hard, and were successful.  (It's a huge number of people; I just picked out some examples.)

@mavdog I agree with you there.  We have several Marxists in the White House, on the Democrat sides of Congress, and certainly in the media. 

But, unlike Chavez, most of them are not disciples for those anti-American beliefs and practices....except a lot of the Democrats.

@rufuslevin @mavdog @noblefurrtexas Yep!

@ScottsMerkin @DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas @mavdog @ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul Let me get this straight.  If I disagree with Obama, or the late Caesar Chavez, or think Cynthia McKinney is a shameless moron, then I'm a racist?  Are you serious?

You may believe that white people can't criticize minorities without being racists, but that's as mistaken as the belief that some minorities deserve reparations.

@ScottsMerkin @DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas @mavdog @ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul I'm not responsible for who Chavez had for parents.  I disagree strongly with what he said and did; not his race or national identity. 

Liberals seem to follow the despicable Saul Alinsky scam of playing the race card any time they don't have an intelligent argument.  (Simply accuse them of being racists if they are disagreeing with ignorant Democrats like Cynthia McKinney, or Left-wing groups like LaRaza.)

Good job! 

@noblefurrtexas 

First of all, I'm not particularly fond of unions.

you share that view with Marxists, they don't like unions either.

Second, I earned my American citizenship serving in combat in the military. Chavez wasn't so much as a Boy Scout.

oh, so only those who served in the military "earn..American citizenship". the rest aren't true Americans, right?

glad you cleared that up. yes, you are definitely an idiot.

so they weren't worth much more than farm animals in economic terms.....not human terms.

so lower level workers should be treated in the same way as "farm animals" in your opinion. wow.

Cesar Chavez was born an American, worked very hard and sacrificed to help the farm workers who were treated like "farm animals". In that you agree with their treatment as "farm animals" it is clear why you disprove of Chavez.

@noblefurrtexas 

We have several Marxists in the White House, on the Democrat sides of Congress, and certainly in the media.

oh really? can you inform us as to what "Marxist" proposals these "Marxists in the White House and the Democrat side of Congress" have proposed? you know, things like actual, specific legislation or proposed bills...

But, unlike Chavez, most of them are not disciples for those anti-American beliefs and practices....

What exactly made Chavez "anti-American"? His advocacy for farm workers? his drive for worker's rights?

it's odd, actually it's "anti-American", to be against worker's rights.

it sure appears that you are the guilty person.

@noblefurrtexas " but that's as mistaken as the belief that some minorities deserve reparations"

Spoken like a true bigoted fascist piece of crap.

@mavdog You have an amazing way of converting what is said to what you WISH what said so you could be indignant.  I won't go into the psychology of this, but don't ever join a debate team. 

The result of Chavez extorting growers was that they paid more money for machines that would do the same things a migrant laborers, but didn't threaten them, didn't strike, and didn't engage in employee larceny.

Today, there are fewer jobs for migrant workers than ever.  Growers, farmers, and ranchers depend on machines for a great deal of the work, and can hire drivers and operators for good money, but less than they would pay Chavez for 20 workers or more to do produce what the machine does.

Between a farm animal and Chavez, I'd take the farm animal any day.  But, I'm partial to animals and pets. 

Thanks to Chavez and his ilk, a great many family farms, orchards, and vineyards are no longer family owned, but large corporations that do NOT hire migrant workers.

He also substantially raised the cost of food and produces for consumers - especially those coming out of the Great Depression. 

Great job Caesar.

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas  Workers have only the rights the law gives them, or that are extended by contract for a set amount of time.  (A lot of stupid or selfish people mistake wishes for rights.)

You don't have a right to shorter hours or more money because you think you should.  Either the law, or a contract agreement, extends those "rights".

I reward my employees in a number of ways for good performance and success.  But, I don't HAVE to; I do it to let them know they're appreciated.

Remember Hostess Bakery?  Unions killed that company.  
We haven't needed unions in America for a hundred years.  Yet, the Liar-In-Chief, caught once again with his pants down over deceit on ObamaCare, stacked the
NLRB - not with a balance of management and labor, but all Marxist-leaning Progressives and union people who could further invade companies with expensive and unnecessary demands, threaten employees, and the same kind of extortion Jesse Jackson uses against company management and ordinary stockholders for money.

@noblefurrtexas 

Don't get indignant for me quoting what you wrote. you said it, do you not stand by what you said?

Farm employment has declined ever since machines were first put in service, going back to Whitney and John Deere. The employment levels of farm workers has been fairly static for the last couple of decades, for machines cannot do all the work in the fields especially for produce.

the largest employers of migrant farm workers are the large corporate farms. The organization of farm workers had nothing to do with the aggregation of smaller farms by larger ones, the decline in kids wanting to be farmers like their parents has more of an affect as well as the financial difficulties of the business.

as for your contention that the organizing of the farm workers have "raised the cost of food and produces [sic] for consumers" that is wrong. the annual inflation of food costs before the organizing of the farm workers, such as in the 1970's, was much greater than since the workers were organized.

@mavdog Just an example....you claimed I said that someone had to serve in the military to qualify as a citizen.

You said, "oh, so only those who served in the military "earn..American citizenship". the rest aren't true Americans, right?'

Wrong (again).  I said that I earned my right to be a citizen because I served in the military - and in combat.    The utterly refutes your statement that Chavez was a better citizen than I. 

Corporate farms couldn't wait to get rid of migrant farm workers and replace them with machinery.  Today, there are far fewer jobs for manuel labor - fewer than ever.  Among the few quarterly reports I get are two corporate farming and food production companies.  They were among the best performing stocks since 2006.  But, as their costs go up, the price of food goes up. That's how most businesses work. Expenses are passed along to consumers. 

John Deere has been around forever.  I drove one on a summer job in high school. The owner of the farm made no bones about it being cheaper to hire students for summer jobs than to pay migrant farm workers plus all of their expenses. 

Case (another great farm manufaturer) closed!

@noblefurrtexas

you claimed I said that someone had to serve in the military to qualify as a citizen. Wrong (again).  I said that I earned my right to be a citizen because I served in the military - and in combat. 

the word "qualify" is not in my comments, I posted just what you said about "earning..citizenship" which you just restated. Here's news for you: people "earn" citizenship by being born or attaining citizenship. your military service does not make you any better citizen then somebody who didn't serve.

The utterly refutes your statement that Chavez was a better citizen than I. 

I did not make any such statement, although it may be accurate.

Today, there are far fewer jobs for manuel labor - fewer than ever. 

you are wrong. http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/background.aspx#Numbers

Case (another great farm manufaturer) closed! 

@mavdog "Case closed" was a play on words.  Sorry you missed it.  I didn't mean Case went out of business.  I meant there was no further point debating the migrant workers on today's automated farms and food-producing concerns from the number of migrants who worked on farms before their costs surpassed what the investment in automation and machinery could return. 

Chavez helped to price them out of the marketplace.  I'm not saying there are none; I'm saying there are fewer in gross numbers.  The government has reasons for fudging those numbers they way they lie about most other things these days.

Again, I don't believe someone has to serve in the military to be an American citizen.  And, I've never implied that. However, the statement that Chavez was a better citizen than I am is beyond laughable. 

@noblefurrtexas

The government has reasons for fudging those numbers they way they lie about most other things these days.

if you deny the stats and claim the Department of Labor is purposely misreporting the number of workers, which BTW show your claim to be completely wrong, all I can say is it is YOUR credibility that just went out the window.

There is actually a farm worker shortage. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2014/02/15/2830734/farm-labor-shortages-spread-across.html

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas I know you're in love with Obama and big government, but videos that have surfaced the last few days showing an MIT professor collaborating with Obama and actually intentionally lying to the American people to sell ObamaScare nail both Obama and Democrats to the wall as utter liars and cheats. 

. 

White House logs show he visited 22 times during the passage of AHC Act, yet the White House pretends nobody there knew him.  Funny how this professor was paid almost one million dollars to obscure the truth in the bill, and participate in spinning lies about what the bill does.

Your pal has been so busted that he makes Pinocchio look like Honest John. 

@noblefurrtexas

don't have any idea how that bit of information correlates to your errors regarding Chavez, American citizenship and farm labor, but...

the videos of Jonathan Gruber? the Jonathan Gruber who was Mitt Romney's advisor? The Professor who does not hold elective office?

yeah, that Jonathan Gruber.

If you listen to what Gruber said, it was not that there was any "lying" or "lies", he said there was a lack of transparency due to the voter's being (I believe he said) "stupid". 

If you believe that only one party in our government acts this way, you are incredibly naive. or guilty of the charge made by Gruber...

@noblefurrtexas ... the Average American is a low-functioning idiot and needs to be lied to much like children are told lies to protect them from the uncomfortable truths and realities in this world.

Hence the entire institution of RELIGION.

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas In this country, civilians are superior to the governments.  So, a government worker of any salary who lies to the American people is an unacceptable participant in the process. 

We're not near as bad as our closest neighbors, Mexico and Canada, although we've got a lot of Mexicans in out country dumbing down the averages, I think there is no question education in America has trended downward since the late 60s.

But, there is NEVER an excuse for government to lie to the American people - with the possible exception of classified material in the military - and anyone caught doing it should be put on trial. 

I'm not an expert on religion, but I don't know of any prominent in THIS country that lies to its followers so the religion can get away with crimes or improper behavior. 

@noblefurrtexas "But, there is NEVER an excuse for government to lie to the American people - with the possible exception of classified material in the military"

LOL! ... you're not the sharpest too in the shed, are you?

How will the public know that everything the Government claims is "classified military" is actually legitimately so, if idiots like you allow them the blind authority to simply decree it so?

@nft " In this country, civilians are superior to the governments. "

Have you notified the government of your quaint little theory?