New Senator Charles Perry: We’re Living in Holocaust II

by Christopher Hooks Published on Wednesday, October 1, 2014, at 12:19 CST

Abby Rapoport

Gov. Rick Perry and GOP House candidate Charles Perry pose for photos in 2010.

Recently, state Rep. Charles Perry (R-Lubbock) got himself elected to a state Senate seat. He’s replacing Robert Duncan, who was well-regarded as a pragmatic dealmaker, and will be missed by the people who like to see the Legislature pass bills. (Some do not.) In the special election that Perry won, he was strongly backed by groups like Michael Quinn Sullivan’s Empower Texans. He didn’t seem like he’d be one of the most extreme new senators. Maybe Perry wouldn’t be that guy. When dealing with the Texas Legislature—a frequently demoralizing experience—it’s important to keep an open mind, lest our hearts calcify.

Yesterday, Perry got sworn into office, and the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal was there.

After placing his hand on the Bible and taking the oath of office, state Sen. Charles Perry compared what he called the “spiritual battle” brewing across the nation to the Holocaust.

God has a place in the government, Perry explained in his inaugural speech as he vividly recalled a recent trip to a concentration camp in Berlin.

Well, that’s probably taken out of context. I bet that—

“There were 10,000 people that were paraded into a medical office under the guise of a physical. As they stood with their back against the wall, they were executed with a bullet through the throat. Before they left, 10,000 people met their fate that way,” Perry said.

“Is it not the same than when our government continues to perpetuate laws that lead citizens away from God? The only difference is that the fraud of the Germans was more immediate and whereas the fraud of today’s government will not be exposed until the final days and will have eternal-lasting effects.”

Hm. Well, sometimes politicians say extreme stuff like that, but when you get down to where the rubber meets the road they’re more thoughtful. I bet when we get to the start of the session that Perry will be more—

His biggest challenge will be the “spiritual battle for the spirit of this nation and the soul of its people,” he said.

When he gets to the capital, abortion and same-sex marriage will be at the forefront of discussion, Perry said.

“Roe v. Wade condemned 55 million innocent and defenseless souls that cried out for righteousness from a God who is just — we will answer for that as a nation,” Perry said, later noting that he has made clear his stance on gay marriage.

OK, but I bet Perry’s surrounding himself with thoughtful people that—

Also recalling a trip to a concentration camp, Pastor Jeff McCreight of Rock City Church compared abortion to the estimated 11 million people who died at the hands of the Nazis.

“The value of human life is continually being attacked by a 41-year-old Holocaust called abortion, which makes Hitler look like a humanitarian,” McCreight said.

That “attack” is why McCreight said Perry’s swearing in ceremony was so important.

If Dan Patrick wins the lt. governor’s race, can we call his Senate the “Salvation Army?”

CreativeHavoc

Sounds like the American version of the Taliban… As my old daddy used to say when confronted with such hypocrisy, “Jesus God.”
- Victor Edwards
  
  The push back is just getting started, guys. You are the ones trying to force something down our throats, making out yourselves to be an oppressed minority rather than an immoral, wicked and filthy minority. The back-lash and push back is just getting started. People are coming to their senses and seeing reality for the first time in a long time.
  - unclejeems
    
    Get. A. Grip.
  - Tex
    
    “Wicked”? “Filthy”? You’re sounding a bit Talibanish to me, Victor.
    - Victor Edwards
      
      I realize that your soul has been so cauterized that the words just don’t register with you, but “wicked” and “filthy” are exactly the judgment of God on all such sin. That is why we refer to you and your ilk as “lost,” for your mind is besotted and blind to any morality at all. You are, to use biblical language, “like brute beasts.”
      
      As for the Taliban slur, you don’t hear or see me doing a single thing to force you to do anything. Keep killing your own children; keep sodomizing your brothers. It is not for me to judge; it is for God to judge and He has told me in His word to warn you of the judgment to come. The Taliban would flog you or cut off your testicles. I will never touch you, for God is judge and His judgment is far, far worse than anything I could even imagine. As the Apostle Paul puts it, “Our weapons of warfare are not carnal [meaning worldly things like arms and bombs] but spiritual…arguments for tearing down strongholds… by the power of God.”
      - Tex
        
        On the Judgement Day, I think He’ll have a lot more to answer to than I ever will.
        
        Victor, God gave you a mind. Don’t you think He wants you to use it instead of believing every bit of nonsense written by primitive people in a time when miracles were a dime a dozen?
      - Tex
        
        Just like Taliban, you seem to be 100% certain that you possess The Truth and everyone who believes otherwise is wrong, in the absence of a single shred of evidence. If I had wanted to use a slur, it would have been “cult follower”.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Ah, you just did use the slur. We call that hypocrisy.
  - Diane Bruder
    
    Victor,
    
    You are an unbalanced, judg”MENTAL”Christian. It is people like you that have made me stop going to church. I do not want my tithe going to support political laws that suppress my rights and freedoms as a woman. Before you start, I am NOT an Atheist; I am a Christian who can see the danger of letting unbalanced religious leaders get elected. I am appalled that women who seek an abortion are slut-shamed. This is 2014, not 1914. And PLEASE, really? Can we ever think of them as worse than Hitler? Or can we really say that they make him look like a humanitarian as this article suggests? As a woman, I will vote to protect the right for a woman to choose what to do with her own body because it is NOT a man’s decision to choose for her and many of our religious leaders think it is. It is also these religious leaders who suppress women in equal pay and equal protection under the law. These are the same men who say stupid things about women or use lying ads that they think will appeal to women when it in reality it shows just what misogynists they are and how out of touch. Here is an example of what I am talking about.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPG2iW3cqU
    - Victor Edwards
      
      Protest as loud as you will, you are not a Christian at all. Christians follow the Bible as the Word of God, and you clearly don’t. You are a counterfeit “Christian.” It is not a RIGHT of a woman to kill her children! That kind of thinking is so perverse that it stinks to high heaven. Do what you will but expect that He who has the final judgment will not relent from His righteous judgment.
      - Ted Govostis
        
        Actually the bible supports abortion (it includes instruction on making a potion to induce an abortion in adulterous wives), and makes it clear killing a fetus is not the same as killing a person. That’s why the punishment it lists for causing a woman to miscarry is a simple fine, while it says murderers should be put to death. Life starts at first breath according to the bible. Learn your own damned holy book before you tell someone else they aren’t following it.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        The breath that the Bible says causes life to begin is not the breath of the person in question. It is the breath of the Holy Spirit. So, it is not true that the Bible teaches that life starts at first breath. You’re only reaching that fallacious conclusion by confusing the breath of the Holy Spirit with the breath of the person in question.
      - Ted Govostis
        
        No you ignorant toe rag, it is very clear that they do not consider the unborn to be a living person, as evidenced by my other point. The punishment for causing a miscarriage is different from the punishment for killing a person. Historically speaking, still births were not given the same treatment as a baby that lived so mach as 10 minutes. So yes, first breath was life, there is no room for debate on this.
      - Guest
        
        You say “No” and then proceed to raise a straw man, totally irrelevant to my post. I don’t believe that I’ve ever met someone quite as stupid as you.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You say “No” and then proceed to raise a straw man. I don’t believe that I’ve ever met someone quite as stupid as you. You’re also a slimy backpeddler.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You say “No” and then proceed to raise a straw man. I don’t believe that I have ever met someone quite as stupid as you. You are also a slimy backpeddler. You did not merely say that “first breath was life”. You said that “the Bible teaches that life starts at first breath”. I dispensed with that false assertion. Nothing which you have written in your subsequent response refutes my dispensing of this false assertion. Yet, you, like a slime ball, act as if you refuted me. You’re a lying scum ball.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        Your logic is atrocious. You write: “That’s why the punishment it lists for causing a woman to miscarry is a simple fine, while it says murderers should be put to death.” All that you can get from this distinction in the law is that causing a woman to miscarry is not regarded as murder. No valid logic allows you to conclude that it is not regarded as murder because the fetus is not regarded as a person. Your “logic” is illogical.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        She’s a counterfeit “Christian”? Does that mean that she’s a double quote Christian, instead of just a single quote Christian?
      - Victor Edwards
        
        That means that she is a Christian In Name Only [CINO], much like Republicans in Name Only [RINO] and Democrats in Name Only [DINO]. All of them have one thing in common: they do not adhere in any way to the beliefs and practices of their claimed associations. They are pretenders, fakers, counterfeit.
        
        I could care less about political parties, but when people profess to be Christians and violate nearly all the tenets of that faith, I will speak against them. So that you and your ilk will know in the future, Christians have one sole authority; God’s Word, the Bible:
        
        “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them.”
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You did not answer my question. She’s a counterfeit “Christian”? Does that mean that she’s a double quote Christian, instead of just a single quote Christian?
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        The fact that Christians have one sole authority is irrelevant, as far as you’re concerned, when speaking with you. As I have proven above, you are not a Christian.
- thecyberczarina
  
  This whack-jobs sounds quite a bit like Hitler himself… Here’s some quotes from some of Hitler’s speeches (easily found on the internet)…. Frighteningly similar…….
  
  •Hitler on blending of church and state: “Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life…These are Christian principles!”
  
  •Hitler’s faith-based charity: “With a tenth of our budget for religion, we would thus have a Church devoted to the State and of unshakable loyalty.”
  
  •Hitler’s mission to cleanse the world of evil as personified by liberals, homosexuals, labor leaders, homeless people, immigrants from inferior cultures, and the weak and sick. “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” And, “We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit… We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press—in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess…”
  
  •Hitler’s “warriorship” for the Lord. “I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be allowed to wage this battle.” “I follow the path assigned to me by Providence … there is a God… And this God again has blessed our efforts during the past years.”
- Victor Edwards
  
  I wonder where he is today. One thing I do know, if he has passed on, he now knows “Jesus God,” whether in salvation or judgment.
  - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
    
    Jesus Christ has no such title as “Jesus God”. You, or someone else, made this up and you are now using it as a title for Him. Such is your unmitigated gall. This is further proof that you are not a Christian. No Christian would presume to give Jesus a title. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. You’re bereft of wisdom.
Keith Babberney

As a sixth-generation Texan, I am ashamed that people in our state elected a man who clearly has not made any effort to understand the Constitution. Even here in Texas, not everyone is a Christian, and some of us do understand the reasons behind our Founders’ decision to create a secular government. I may continue to be in the minority here for a long time yet, but I will fight these theocrats all the way to the end.
Victor Edwards

Actually, abortion is not about religion at all. It is flat-out murder of innocents. It is immoral and America is now paying for it already and will continue to spiral downward morally as “the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men.” The spreading of the wicked, perverse and filthy homosexuality social rot is direct evidence that such wrath is being poured out on our society. Unless America repents, it will “wax worse and worse.”
- thecyberczarina
  
  Abortion has existed since the 1st unwanted/unintended pregnancy. All Roe v Wade did was make it possible for women in America to obtain safe and legal abortions to prevent them from dying. I’m sorry you believe that women are worth LESS than eggs, zygotes and non-sentient fetuses, none of which are alive and therefore can’t be “murdered”. They have the “potential” for life but they are not alive. Putting them above women who are alive and breathing, well, THAT is immoral, in my opinion. You really expect people to believe “America is paying the price for legalized abortion”, but your God was okay and did NOTHING “to America” and condoned the rape, slaughter, imprisonment and stealing of children of the Native American Indians or the horrors that occurred during the years of Slavery?! Can’t believe your God turned a blind eye to such evil but is NOW worried about legalized abortion…..
  
  The “wrath of God”… Which God? Thor, Zues, Muhammad, the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
  
  And of course, homosexuality….. Which does NOT affect your life, your soul, your religion, your afterlife, your money, your marriage, and your world in any way whatsoever, unless you secretly crave gay sex or you wind up with a gay child ……
  - Victor Edwards
    
    If you only recognized how stereotypical your response is, you would be shame-faced. Your reference to the “flying spaghetti monster” connotes your real sentiments, and your mocking of Christianity is so predictable it is funny to see played out in real life. Your re-writing of history is nearly as perverted as your belief in murder and homosexuality.
    
    And just who has said that God has “turned a blind eye” to anything, anything at all? Be sure, He has not done so, and every sin shall be punished justly, some sooner, some later, but all perfectly according to God’s own standard. Jehovah God is the “God who sees.” And we all shall stand before Him one day and answer to Him personally for even the most insignificant rebellious sin. There is but one option: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. God has provided the way out of the final punishment for your sins, but it has to do with trusting God for that forgiveness and it also has to do with the justice of God for taking out the just punishment of all my sins on His own Son, Jesus Christ. Not a single sin will escape the judgment; either it will be paid through faith in Christ, in which case justice is wrought by the death of Christ for my sins, or it will be taken out on me personally, which would result in my eternal damnation. God has graciously given me the ability to see my sinful condition, to repent of it and trust in Jesus Christ the Lord, who took my sin and paid the just penalty for it.
    
    To put it in a colloquial way, all the books will be finally balanced, either on the basis of faith in Christ or upon the person himself. Thank God Jesus Christ paid justly for my sins.
    - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
      
      Yeah, sure, Victor Edwards. Being stereotypical is definitely something to be shame-faced about. My God, you’re a moron.
- Tex
  
  Are you as passionate about ending the death penalty?
  - Victor Edwards
    
    I fully support the death penalty of CONVICTED CAPITAL OFFENDERS. Justice demands a “life for a life.” Surely you see the jolting difference between some monstrous murderer/mutilator and an innocent fetus! Abortion is sin against God and do not be deceived, in the judgment the standard will be that same “life for life.”
    - J. Fischer
      
      Do you know how many people are found innocent after being convicted? Too many. We can’t raise the unjustly executed.
      
      I suppose that you are against contraception, also. Like too many of the anti-abortion crowd, you probably don’t give a crap about unwanted children after they’re born. They’re serving their purpose of punishing women for having sex. It’s not your problem if the parents can’t take care of them, right?
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Let me respond to a couple of your wild-eyed assumptions/presuppositions. First, I am not at all against contraception. That is simply your knee-jerk liberal assumption and predictable reaction. Secondly, you have no idea at all of my own personal involvement in the welfare of children all of my life after doing a long stint as a protective services investigator, receiving awards for my efforts to create and establish unique services to protect the neglected/abused children of our community and state. You are just running off at the mouth and following the dictates of your own ignorance. You are assuming that to be right, we must all think exactly like you. That is stupid.
    - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
      
      So, CONVICTED CAPITAL OFFENDERS have their own death penalty? What do they do with their death penalty? You’re very big on making bald, unsubstantiated assertions. Since you make such assertions, you are clearly not intelligent enough to know that make such assertions is a complete waste of time for everyone reading such assertions, including yourself. All such assertions are illegitimate and excluded from any intelligent conversation. Why is that? Because, if we include such assertions, then anyone can assert anything, which inevitably makes for moronic conversations.
- Keith Babberney
  
  If God is omnipotent, and God is good, won’t God just have those innocent babies born to a different mother?
  - J. Fischer
    
    In Victor’s world, God punishes people for sex by sending babies into poverty, abuse, and neglect.
    - Vincent Alexander
      
      In Victor’s world,he himself wishes to be the instrument of God’s punishment.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Not at all. Indeed, that would be blasphemous. There is one Judge, and that is Jesus Christ the Lord. You will soon find this out experientially. You can be sure, though, that I will be a witness to that judgment.
        
        Also, do not think that God’s punishment is limited to after life. Indeed, the Bible teaches that God’s judgment is at work in the world every day, when it says:
        
        “The wrath of God IS BEING REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men.” Present active tense. So don’t be presumptuous that you can get along without penalty until death.
      - Vincent Alexander
        
        May I point out that you do not own God.Nor do you own me,rule me or control me.What you have is your own beliefs about God.If I am to be Judged,it will be from God’s own criteria,not yours.You can believe whatever you want,but I am not bound by YOUR beliefs.Nor am I or the Supreme is bound by whatever book you want to use.The relationship between an individual and the Supreme is the most important one there is,and you have absolutely no say in the relationship between another individual and the Supreme.I have my own relationship with the Supreme.I don’t fear you,or your giant robe wearing bearded throne sitting guy in the clouds. Nor do I fear a book written by human beings.The Word of the Supreme is not written in the books written by man.It is written in the very atoms,the very fabric of the Multiverse. Instead of worrying about MY judgement,worry about your own,because you don’t know what God’s judgement will be against you.So how about you stop forcing your beliefs on me,and I won’t do the same to you,mmmmkay?
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Engaging in debate with you is “forcing” my belief on you? I could only wish! Sorry, but that is a sissy response, not an intelligent one. God declares that the Bible is His Word to mankind. What He has revealed is what we know about God. Your “Supreme” is a figment of your imagination, and there is no objective criteria for that. How un-scientific! I appeal to authority that can be read and re-read, checked out, examined. What have you from your “Supreme” that would make me consider “it?”
      - Vincent Alexander
        
        “Engaging in debate with you is “forcing” my belief on you? I could only wish!”
        
        Of course you do.The desire for control of others is a s old as man itself.There is no debate among us.That requires two way communication.You don’t care about my beliefs or what i say,if it is not in total agreement with you.
        
        “God declares that the Bible is His Word to mankind. What He has revealed is what we know about God.” What is this “we” crap.For once just speak for yourself,and not everyone else.All you have is a tiny drop of water from an infinite ocean,and in your vanity and hubris,you think you know everything there is to know.The Supreme has infinite ways to speak,not just from a single book.The Supreme can reveal Itself in an infinite amount of ways,not just the way you want it. If you found the God through a Book,I’m happy for you.I’m not you,though.I am not better than you,nor are you better than me.How me and the Supreme interact,the relationship between me and God,is between me and God,you have nothing to do with it.It really isn’t any of your business any way. Neither God ,nor I ,need your permission.
        
        Your “Supreme” is a figment of your imagination, and there is no objective criteria for that. How un-scientific!”
        
        Never claimed to be a scientist,now did i?
        
        I’m not the one pushing my beliefs on the Supreme on anyone. .Believe,Don’t Believe,it really doesn’t matter to me. Read my posts,don’t read my posts,whatever.
        
        Maybe my Supreme is a figment of my Imagination.But that figment of my Imagination was there to help me through some very,very tough times in my life.Where were you when I needed that? You were nowhere to be found.Where were you my wife died?My “Figment of My Imagination was there every step of the way through my grieving.Where were you when I got deathly ill> My Figment of My Imagination was there every step of my recovery, Where were you.My Figment of My Imagination was there for all the joyous times of my life.Where were you to help me share that. My “Figment of My Imagination was there the day my child was born.Where were You.You were nowhere to be found. Never once has my “Figment of My Imagination” abandoned me in my hour of need.It very well may be a figment of my imagination,but it was more real to me,more helpful and comforting to me,than you have ever been to me.
        
        “I appeal to authority that can be read and re-read, checked out, examined.”
        
        Good for you.I look at the stars,open my mind and open my heart.I don’t need to appeal to any form of human authority.The Supreme is everywhere.In the smallest atom to the Multiverse itself.God is not some Being to me,It is not some gigantic white guy in a beard and robe up in the clouds sitting on a throne with Junior and the Spook at his side listening to crappy angel music, God is more like the concept of the Tao.All I got to do is look and listen.But hey,Victor how you find God is how you find God,and that’s beautiful.I wouldn’t want to take that away from you. But I don’t need you to find God.I can do that with Gods help. Your assistance is not required.
        
        ” What have you from your “Supreme” that would make me consider “it?”
        
        Something you can never understand,or ever possess. My own experiences in life.That is the only thing in life we take from cradle to the grave,our experiences.You have your experiences with God and Christ.You want my “testimony” because that you the door will be open to give yours.
        
        Nope.
        
        I’m guessing you really don’t care about my experiences,because your experiences are much more important.It’s all about you and what you believe.I really don’t matter to you,now do I .It’s ok,I understand..It’s really all about you,now isn’t it? Why should I want to hear about your experiences when it’s kind of obvious you don’t want to hear about mine.
        I have nothing tangible to give you,and you have absolutely nothing I want or need.The Relationship between you and the Supreme is none of my business.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You write: “It is not some gigantic white guy in a beard and robe up in the clouds
        sitting on a throne with Junior and the Spook at his side listening to
        crappy angel music”. This is sheer bigotry, Vincent Alexander. The Christian God is a spirit. He’s does not have a body. So, he is certainly not gigantic or white and he certainly does not have a beard or wear a robe. And he is certainly not up in the clouds sitting on a throne, etc.. Your characterization of the Christian God represents an abysmal bigoted conception of Him.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You won’t do the same to Vincent? That is to say, you won’t stop forcing your beliefs on him. In other words, you’ll continue forcing your beliefs on him. That doesn’t seem fair.
      - Tex
        
        We’re still waiting for His response to the Holocaust.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        Does putting “IS BEING REVEALED” in capital letters make your sentence more true? By the way “Present active tense.” is not a sentence, moron.
    - Victor Edwards
      
      Nope. Sinning people bring babies into such environments. But being poor is not excuse for murdering your children. Sinning people abuse and neglect their children, but I know many, many poor people who love and cherish their children without sinful neglect and abuse. Don’t blame God for your own wickedness.
  - Victor Edwards
    
    You are weaving a fairy tale in your own mind. You don’t know the nature of God at all or you would not say such an ignorant ans foolish thing.
    - Keith Babberney
      
      You’d better explain it to me. Also, don’t forget to explain how you came to you intimate knowledge of the nature of god.
      - Vincent Alexander
        
        It’s called VANITY. He read a book,had an experience,and thinks he knows the Nature of the Supreme for the ENTIRE UNIVERSE,not just for himself.He seems to have no problem what others are thinking.He’s lecturing everyone here like he is superior to everyone else.Only He (and those who believe exactly the way he does) has the right to lecture people on God.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        If you only had eyes to see you would be able to understand the nature of man such that you could predict with utter certainty how they will act and how they will believe. It is call the doctrine of total depravity, and it is founded on the teaching of the Bible, revealed to us by God Himself. Our Lord knew exactly what was in man’s minds;
        
        “Now when He was in Jerusalem a the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, for He KNEW ALL MEN, and had no need for anyone to testify of man, FOR HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN MAN.”
        
        Long before that, in the days after the creation of man and man’s sinful fall from grace, God had already said:
        
        “Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that EVERY INTENT OF THE THOUGHTS OF HIS HEART WAS ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY.”
        
        Put plainly, it is easy to know the thoughts and intents of men’s minds, those outside of Christ. Are you “outside of Christ?”
      - Vincent Alexander
        
        Saying “If you only had eyes to see you would be able to understand the nature of man” is the same thing as saying “I need to see things the way YOU tell me to”. So you can look at a person and “predict with utter certainty how they will act and how they will believe”? Bullcrap.The only way you can do that is if You control the thoughts of another human being. really have a low opinion of your fellow man. you say “it is easy to know the thoughts and intents of men’s minds, those outside of Christ”. You really hate those you can’t control,don’t you.It sounds to me that you think that those that don’t THINK the way you do,the way YOU tell them to are bad wrong evil people. . I asked you not to push your beliefs on me,and yet I knew you couldn’t resist. I guess those “inside Christs” are just as predictable.You know nothing about me,Victor Edwards. I repeat,you know NOTHING about me.You don’t know my thoughts,my dreams ,my failings,my triumphs,.YOU KNOW NOTHING.You quote a few passages from a book and that is supposed to be impressive? You talk of GOD as if GOD is yours to command.That no one else has the right to have a relationship with the SUPREME unless YOU say so.Because of a book written 2000 years ago,by human beings,that you were not there to witness,says so?That’s fine be me if you believe that,but that’s not what I believe.You want to force your beliefs on me? Let me tell you what I believe.
        
        There are over 7 septillion( that’s 7000000000000000000000000000) atoms in my body.All the raw material ( mostly hydrogen)in my body material was there in the first moments of the Big Bang. It traveled the universe forhundreds of millions,or a few billion of years until it met up with a bunch of other atoms floating in space,and gave birth to a star.That star took that raw material and turned them into the elements in my body (the carbon,the oxygen,the iron,etc),and when that star died and exploded in a fiery supernova,it flung those elements back into deep space,floated around for millions or billions of years until about 4.5 billion years ago it met up with another large cloud of atoms,and helped give birth tp this solar system,and this planet.Every atom in my body has been a part of this planet since the beginning.What makes my current physical form were in the rocls,in the waters,in the soil,in the air,in the first forms of life to emerge,the dinosaurs,and humans for 4 billion + years. I even have some of the atoms you have discarded.
        
        I believe that everything in the Multiverse is interconnected.I believe that the Supreme is not some gigantic white guy in robes and a beard sitting on some throne in the sky in judgement of us humans.I believe that the Supreme is in ALL things.I was before,I am now,and I will be again when my time is up here in this current form. If not in this form,than in another.If not in this Universe,than in another. Your primitive superstitions and beliefs have no hold over me,because you have no hold over me.I don’t need to read a Book to know the Glory of the Supreme. All I have to do is look at the trees,look at the oceans,look at the clouds,look at the star,and look within me.Nothing can be “outside the Supreme”,because One Is All,and All Is One. And that’s beautiful.
      - SeniorSkeptik
        
        The most terrifying place to be has to be between your ears. I am so very, very grateful not to be there.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        The verse which you quote from the Old Testament says absolutely nothing about the men in question being outside of Christ. So, if your verse applies to today, as you insist it does, then it applies to you. So, every intent of the thoughts of your heart are only evil continually. Then you’ll understand it if we give you no attention, evil man.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        No, it is more like this:
        
        1 Corinthians 2: 14-16:
        
        14 But the natural man does
        not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him;
        nor CAN he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
        
        15 But he who is spiritual
        judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
        
        16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct
        Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
        
        Those who have been born from above [born again, in popular parlance] are given a mind that is in harmony with the Creator God. Those who have NOT been born from above think spiritual things are foolishness.
        
        Get it?
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Wow, a rational response. I will be glad to.
        
        I know the nature of God because I have seen Jesus Christ, and to see Jesus Christ is to see God, for He himself said, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” That assertion is further attested by the statements in the biblical book of Hebrews chapter 1:
        
        “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who, being the BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY AND EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON [God’s that is] and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,,”
        
        In simple terms, to know Christ is to know God and His nature. They are One. The remainder of the Bible tells us details of the character and nature of God, but it is best illustrated in the person Jesus Christ, who the Father said from heaven, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased. Hear Him!”
        
        As for how I personally came to know the character of God as displayed in the person of Jesus Christ, that is covered in the Bible also:
        
        “And you [addressed to all believers, including me] He MADE ALIVE, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once walked, conducting ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, JUST LIKE THE OTHERS.”
        
        “But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and RAISED US UP TOGETHER, nad made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus…”
        
        In other words, I have been MADE ALIVE by a supernatural power called regeneration [commonly called the new birth] and made to partake of the nature of God. The Apostle Paul in another place describes it:
        
        “For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, THROUGH THE WASHING OF REGENERATION AND RENEWING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT whom He poured out abundantly on us through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”
        
        That is how I have come to know and participate in the very nature of God. It is so intimate that I now cry out in my soul, “Abba, father.”
      - Keith Babberney
        
        So you decided to believe in the Bible, then found evidence in the Bible to support your belief. I’m glad that works for you, but it isn’t proof of anything, and does not justify any attempts to insert your idea of religion into our shared, secular government. Please do continue to believe what you like, but keep it where it belongs. If you want to make a law for everyone, you have to come up with a convincing argument that we all can accept (i.e., not “The Bible says . . .).
      - Guest
        
        It seems that it all boils down (for
      - Vincent Alexander
        
        It all boils down to…”because a book said so and magic and he sees ghosts and stuff.”. I agree with you.If it works for him,that’s cool. But not a basis for changing LAWS in our country.But it seems he was doing more proselytizing than actual explaining. At least I used my own words to try and explain my beliefs,and not cut and paste from some book.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        …because you worship yourself, the creature. You cite yourself as the final authority. By the way, the “multiverse” is an irrational belief, there being not a single iota of evidence to it. That is your version of “faith.” Talk about fairy tales!
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        Victor, you’re full of crap. The multiverse is an established entity. You’ll say anything if you think it supports your position. This makes you to be a thoroughly untrustworthy person.
- J. Fischer
  
  God performs a lot of abortions. There’s a suspicion that many pregnancies end before the woman even knows she’s pregnant. If you think a fertilized egg is a person, then God has committed murder — as usual.
  
  I hope you and your wife (if you have one) have talked things out, so that she knows that you want her to die if there’s ever a choice between her life and the fetus with no chance for survival. ‘Hey, kids, Mom’s dead because she was less important than a non-viable fetus.’
  - Victor Edwards
    
    You, like all the other radical liberals here, project your own assumptions on anyone who doesn’t agree with you. That, as I said in other places, is stupid. I do not think that a fertilized egg is a “person” in any common understanding of the word. But I understand that even a fertilized egg is an amazing miracle of God in nature that ought to be respected and not snuffed out for the convenience of mostly irresponsible women who practice unprotected sex [I worked with many of them professionally, so don’t tell me I am presuming something. I know exactly what I am talking about.]
    
    As for claiming God is a abortionist, that is blatant blasphemy, for which you will have to answer in that day. When God created mankind in purity and sinlessness, I doubt that there would have been any miscarriages at all. But sin entered because of the woman’s pride and rebellion against God, and sin has ruined the natural processes that God originally created. It is not God that causes miscarriages; it is a sinful natural process that has been ruined by sin and is now flawed beyond repair. Both abortions and miscarriages are caused by the sinful nature and acts of human beings.
    
    Realizing the flawed and sinful nature of our world, I myself allow for certain exemptions, namely the life of the mother and the case of incest. God allows divorce for the very same reason, but reminds us that it was not meant to be so from the beginning. It is a gracious thing required because of the sinful nature of man.
    - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
      
      How do you ruin “a sinful natural process”? Isn’t “a sinful natural process” already ruined? My God, you’re a moron.
- http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
  
  Despite claims of the pro-life group, the Bible nowhere states when the fetus becomes a person. We know it happens in the womb, but we don’t know when. The typical statement that it happens at conception is woven out of thin air, with no basis in Scripture. So, we don’t know at what point abortion becomes murder. To pontificate about that issue is to lord it over another’s conscience, which is itself a sin.
Tricky Rick

When practiced by mature adults, Christianity is a beautiful religion. Unfortunately, this is another example of Republicans perverting Christianity to push their political agenda. Morals cannot be legislated. These fake Christians are awful.
- Victor Edwards
  
  I hope you are not including me, a stanch Democrat for 50 + years. I have always supported traditional Democratic ideals and policies, such as public education, labor rights, social welfare, women’s rights, civil rights and a host [I listed 36 of them besides abortion and homosexuality and rated myself liberal on 35, with a rating of conservative on the death penalty] of traditional policies of the old Democratic party. But today’s Democratic Party has been taken over by extremists that would cause those old Democrats to turn over in their graves if they were able to learn that Democrats now have two litmus tests for inclusion: support for abortion and homosexuality. That, folks, is NOT traditional Democratic views, but the views of a radically different party than that of the Roosevelt era. When I first contacted Obama’s people during his first campaign, I told them I was concerned about his radical views on abortion and homosexuality. I asked them to clarify their position. Their campaign staff in Chicago told me that they too wanted to reduce abortions and that abortion was not a primary issue for them. That, of course, was at least a misrepresentation if not an outright lie. The same for homosexuality. They said that Obama had little interest in homosexuality and that it was “not on his radar.” That too was an outright misrepresentation, and just as soon as he got in the White House, it not only came onto his “radar” but became his number one priority. That was before health care came onto his radar. In other words, Obama lied to us and his campaign staff did too. Your knee-jerk reaction that I must certainly be a Republican is just that: a knee-jerk response.
  
  Today’s Democratic party is a radicalized caricature of the historic Democratic party. Hillary Clinton is the Queen of abortion and her vice-president Rachel Maddow is the titular head of all homosexuals/sodomites in America.
  - Tex
    
    Why are you so concerned homosexuals? Methinks thou doth protest too much.
    - Victor Edwards
      
      Because they are moral rot on our society and will drag us down to destruction. The notion that they are doing no one harm is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
      - Tex
        
        So God will punish us because some people are gay?
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Indeed. Read it and weep:
        
        “…as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner as these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh [a polite way of describing homosexuality], are SET FORTH AS AN EXAMPLE, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” Jude 7
      - Tex
        
        That sounds like killing innocent civilians in Iraq because a Marine died from a roadside bomb. You know, to make an example of them. I doubt you support that, but it’s OK when God does it?
        
        I’m no Bible expert, but didn’t that vengeful old bastard mellow a bit when He became a father, compared with the Old Testament version (God 1.0)?
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Tex, your insolence is overweeningly profound, so much so that I will abide by the Biblical teaching in regards to you:
        
        “He who corrects a scoffer gets shame for himself, and he who rebukes a wicked man only harms himself. Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser.”
      - Tex
        
        Did you have a sense of humor before you were saved?
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        No, bigots like you are rotting our society morally and will drag us down to destruction. Bigotry is an extremely destructive character defect. Bigots are extremely dangerous people. This has been proven over and over again in history. You, and all of your ilk, should be treated as pariah.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        This old hackneyed argument about the violence fomented by Christianity is so worn out it is rarely used by modern atheists. The evidence [which atheists seem to want to skip past] is on the table. To correct your misconceptions, you might want to consult a book entitled “Toleranz & Gewalt,” [Tolerance and Violence] by Angenendt which is an epic work examining violence across the centuries. A mere cursory glance will correct your profound ignorance of the notion that Christianity causes violence. Indeed, it is the classic confusion of categories that you commit here, confusing Christendom with Christianity. It is a common error of the New Atheists, who frankly are not at all clear thinkers, though they call themselves the “Brights.”
        
        You will discover that the usual atheistic claims about the horror of the Inquisition is a bunch of hooey, as they say, and learn that from 1540 to the middle of the 18th century, the Spanish Inquisition was responsible for only 827 executions, and the Roman Inquisition a total of 95. You might compare that with the number of death by the explicitly atheistic despots in the 20th century, the most violent century of all time. Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot alone accounted for hundreds of MILLIONS of deaths.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You’re quite illogical, Victor Edwards. You’ve raised a straw man, which is an illogical thing to do. Indeed, it’s one of the most basic logical errors one can commit. The fact that you committed it makes you to be quite illogical.
        
        I said nothing about Christianity in my post. What I denounced is bigotry, not Christianity. I myself am a Christian and one who holds to the inerrancy of Scripture.
        
        So, you just wasted an entire post on a straw man, which is always a wasteful thing on which to spend time.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        You’re funny, James. You are the quintessential CINO [Christian in Name Only]. And frankly, I don’t believe that you hold to the inerrancy of the Scriptures. I am sure you have invented a unique, idiosyncratic definition of that doctrine so you can pretend to be a Christian.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        And with you, as with the others here who are atheistic and/or homosexual, bigot equals Christian.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        Your logic is atrocious. You’re just mindlessly asserting something which you cannot possibly prove. Yet you assert it anyways. That makes you a false witness concerning me, because you have to be a witness of what you say in order not to be a false witness. This is obviously a way of life for you, bearing false witness against your fellow man. Once again, you’re living in sin, which proves that you are not a Christian, as I explained above.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You’re proving yourself to be a despicable partisan bigot. I am not using that word to mean Christian. You’re quite narcissistic. It does not matter a hill of beans whether you believe that I hold to the inerrancy of Scripture. My Lord Jesus Christ knows full well that I do. Your opinion on the matter has no significance whatsoever. Since you are a despicable partisan bigot, I know that you are not a Christian. Christians may fall into sin, but, according to the Apostle John, in his letters, they don’t live in sin. Being a despicable partisan bigot is a life style. So, you are living in sin. Hence, according to the Apostle John, you are not a Christian, no matter what you say to the contrary. You are very big on making bald, unsubstantiated assertions. Since you make such assertions, you are clearly not intelligent enough to know that making such assertions is a complete waste of time for everyone reading these assertions, including yourself. All such assertions are illegitimate and excluded from any intelligent conversation. Why is that? Because, if we include such assertions, then anyone can assert anything, which inevitably leads to moronic conversations, the kind of conversations you prefer.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        You’re funny, James. One point, though. What do you mean when you say I am a “partisan” bigot? What do you mean by that word?
        
        In another comment you said that you “proved” that I was not a Christian. Besides being laughable, it is just an assertion, the very thing you accuse me of! I don’t worry about CINOs like you, for I am surrounded by believing Christians who know my character and who honor the Lord Jesus Christ. They confirm that I am no “partisan bigot” on a daily basis.
        
        And yes, I suspect that you are a CINO who is actually an atheist attempting to fly under the radar. I don’t know enough from your writings, but many like you are also homosexuals, who try to use the Scriptures to justify themselves and their behavior. Yours are not the words of a born again Christian, but of a skeptic and sadly, an unbeliever. While in some ontological sense, you may be a Christian [only Christ will judge], I have enough information from the Lord in His Word to not believe everyone’s claim to faith, but to “test every spirit.” If you sound and talk like an unbeliever, it is likely that you are. That is not bigotry; that is thoughtful discernment, based on your writings here.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        Your reading comprehension is atrocious. I proved that you are not a Christian. Go back and read my proof. It is an irrefutable argument based upon teachings of the Apostle Paul. If you don’t agree, then try refuting this argument. You won’t succeed, because it’s a proof, not a mere assertion.
        
        You are definitely a partisan bigot. About what word are you talking? I am using partisan the way anyone uses partisan. Partisan and bigot are synonymous. A partisan bigot is one who believes that truth resides in his party or group and cannot be found outside of his party or group. It is the attitude expressed by Jesus’ disciples when they said “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?”. With this they expressed the bigoted idea that truth could not be found outside of their party or group. The opposite view, opposed to partisan bigotry, says that I will receive the truth even if it comes out of the mouth of a dumb ass.
        
        Your post demonstrates that you are a partisan bigot. The fact that your suspicions go where they go proves that you are hopelessly entrenched in the thought patterns of a partisan bigot. You are, indeed, a textbook case of a partisan bigot. This is not up for debate. It is abundantly clear from your posts in this thread.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Your irrational and angry rant simply rolls off my back, dude. Btw, partisan and bigot are NOT the same. If that were the case, then gays and atheists would be the most partisan groups on earth, for they are hide-bound and dyed-in-the-wool haters and “partisans.” If you are a Christian – which I seriously doubt, still – you are one of the least educated ones I have ever encountered – and one of the most hateful. Based on your anger at those who oppose homosexuality and atheism, I discern that you are likely an atheistic homosexual, or at least a homosexuality sympathizer. To use your own phrase, “this is not up for debate.”
        
        But now, after attempting to discuss this rationally and being unsuccessful, I now put your stuff on the “dung heap,” to use a biblical phrase. I am not required to endure your insolence and ignorance forever. You have been warned.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        Victor Edwards, you are quite illogical. There is nothing irrational or angry about what I wrote. My posts have all been thoroughly logical and measured as any competent logician will confirm. Your opinion to the contrary is totally worthless. You’re quite illogical, raising a straw man. The raising of a straw man is a moronic activity. I never said that partisan and bigot are the same. I said that they are synonymous.
        
        Thesaurus.com synonyms for partisan …. bigoted.
        
        So, you’re full of crap.
        
        You’re full of crap. I have a Ph. D. from Columbia University and am deeply read in theology, which makes me an eminently educated person. Your opinion to the contrary is not worth anything.
        
        Your warning is empty. It is totally worthless. You have no significance whatsoever. You are a pathetic loser.
      - Victor Edwards
        
        Ah, that old appeal to authority of the highest academic degree. You don’t even know at this point what mine is, but you are willing to call me demeaning names. I too am an educated person, and if you wish to discuss our different views, we can do so. But no matter what you have read, no matter what you have studied, you still do not seem to understand faith and religion, but seem to be a pretender of religion. A degree from Columbia would seem to confirm the likelihood of that. Columbia 125 years ago might have had some meaning for the faith, but in the last 50, it is as apostate from Christianity as the Mormons.
        
        Let me explain why I think you do not – indeed, cannot – understand the things that I am saying.
        
        “But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
        
        “But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct
        Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.”
        
        I am sure you are not familiar with that biblical text, so for your convenience I will give the citation: First Corinthians 2: 14-16
        
        To even understand faith and Christianity one must be, as the text says, “spiritual.” Jesus put it more plainly in John 3 – “You must be born again…”
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        I am quite familiar with the passage from Corinthians about the natural man. Your assertion to the contrary is the assertion of a moron, a bald, unsubstantiated assertion, which, as with all such assertions, amounts to nothing. This passage from Corinthians applies to you, not to me. You are the natural man, not me. For, as I proved earlier, you are not a Christian, you are not born again, whereas I am a Christian, I am born again. My argument is irrefutable, so don’t waste your time trying to refute it. Your degree, unlike mine, means nothing. I’m a Full Professor of Mathematics. You’re a moron, as is abundantly clear from your posts. You are not educated. You’re a know nothing. This is abundantly clear from your posts. Sitting in on courses, or even passing them, does not make one educated. My education has been confirmed by thirty years of publishing original proofs of original mathematical theorems in some of the best mathematical journals in the world.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You’re a moron. The Mormons cannot be apostate from Christianity. They were never Christian. Since you are a moron, I recommend that you not try to use big words like apostate. You’re too stupid to understand such words.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You’re parrotting a tired old straw man. Oh, you people preach tolerance, but you’re so intolerant of us. This is a stupid argument. Of course those who preach tolerance are going to be intolerant of intolerance. Why is this so? Because, intolerance is the death knell of tolerance. It must be vigorously opposed by those who love tolerance. People who are intolerant of intolerance are most definitely not bigots. They are doing what needs to be done to oppose intolerance, the enemy of tolerance. So, your claims about who is a partisan bigot are demonstrably stupid. Only a moron could believe those claims.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        Victor Edwards, you moronically write: “To use your own phrase, “this is not up for debate.”.” You’ve got a slight problem, moron. In my case, the statement in question was not up for debate. In your case, the statement in question is patently false. So, not only is it up for debate, the debate is settled against it. My God, you are pathetically moronic.
      - http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
        
        You’re quite self deluded. It doesn’t matter a hill of beans whether you believe that I hold to the inerrancy of the Scriptures. Your opinion on that matter is totally worthless, especially given the fact, which I previously proved, that you are not a Christian.
- http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy jamesfitzgerald
  
  Of course, morals can be legislated. For instance, we have a law against murder. That is an example of legislating a moral. In fact, it is safe to say, that very many of our present laws are examples of legislating morality.
Cheyenne

He’d better buy the Reynold’s Wrap factory. He’s going to need a whole lot of tinfoil hats.
don76550

If Hooks is wringing is hands and wetting his little pink diaper then I know Perry is the right man for the job.