Will Dallas ISD Ever Rename Its Confederate Schools?

kduble

It's time to change these names. Robert E. Lee belongs in history books as a great general, but we don't name schools after Alexander, Napoleon or Erwin Rommel.

John1073

I had many classes at Saunders Hall at the Univ of NC. Although he had been a state senator and compiler of historical records, Saunders was also the founder of the KKK in the state. Even after much protesting, the name remains on that building.

rufuslevin

rename them Trayvon Martin Middle School and Michael Brown High School, then Eric Holder Administration Bldg., and then Al Sharpton Elementary and Jesse Jackson Elementary and Sheila Jackson LEE kindergarten maybe

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a school, or a major park, named after Robert E. Lee. He did nothing dishonorable, was against slavery, and only served the Confederacy because he had been the commanding general of the Virginia militia (military), and Virginia ended up in the CSA.

Any student of American history recognizes that Robert E. Lee was a highly respected general during - and after - the Civil War. In fact, history records that the Union soldier who held Lee's horse saluted him, and was very respectful. The somewhat scant history of the surrender at Appomattox was, from what we know, quite civilized and respectful. In fact, Lee was allowed to keep his sword.

Many of today's students don't understand that Lee was an honor graduate of West Point, and personally knew several of the generals for the Union.

This nonsense of changing history by making it disappear is absurd, and dangerous. It's Orwellian, in fact.

Lee Park has been a prominent Dallas Park since before WWII, and it is replete with a huge metal statue of Robert E. Lee. I don't hear a clamor to change its name.

InnerCityBlu

Shit, I went to John B. Hood well-aware that our predominantly black and hispanic junior high was named after a confederate general. By the time I arrived, they'd rebranded from the Rebels to the Mustangs, and our colors - the grey and gold of confederate soldiers, had been slightly altered to the more politically-correct black and gold. I can understand why the identity shift isn't the most major priority to the district but I find the irony that these inner-city, low-performing schools that house nearly 75-85% of our black and brown school-aged kids are named after such deplorable historical figures quite sickening.

pak152

could we name a school after Margaret Sanger? one of the leading lights of eugenics and planned parenthood

pak152

yes lets expunge the names of honorable men like Stonewall Jackson and Robert E Lee from our history. let us never ever utter their names again. Let us rip them from the history books and let their names never cross our lips again.

Catbird

How about Red Skins Elementary?

ozonelarryb

Or schools named after

Ernest Green (b. 1941), Elizabeth Eckford(b. 1941), Jefferson Thomas (1942–2010),Terrence Roberts (b. 1941), Carlotta Walls LaNier (b. 1942), Minnijean Brown (b. 1941),Gloria Ray Karlmark (b. 1942), Thelma Mothershed (b. 1940), and Melba Pattillo Beals (b.

And name a pool after Vonciel.

ozonelarryb

How bout Thomas Eric Duncan?

rogjohns64

I wonder if the woman complaining ever ponders where she would be today had it not been for slavery?

Why all the hate and resentment against a long abandoned practice?

I wonder if Africans whose ancestors were not brought here as slaves are jealous of the improved living conditions of the descendants of African slave enjoy here relative to their own?

But yeah, after we purge all traces of our confederate heritage in DISD maybe we can turn our attention to eliminating all reference to those evil Mexican killers that squatted in the Alamo. Surely Santa Anna's direct contributions to the current DISD student majority deserves naming rights. Those Texans probably killed some of their ancestors.

everlastingphelps topcommenter

When are we going to rename Thomas Edison to remove the anti-Semite Nazi sympathizer name from the school?

T_S_

Change it to William Tecumseh Sherman Elementary. Go Burners.

julia.ruth.barton

W.H. Gaston Confederate Middle School, representing! http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fga63

MariaB

"black mark on the district"

Oopsie...

Threeboys

BTW, I wonder how many DISD students know who Lee & Jackson were.

Do they even teach anything about the Confederacy?

Threeboys

Glad Morath's priorities are in the right place.

...he said he fields the name-change question from time to time but that he has higher priorities than scrubbing DISD of Confederate references, like improving students' educational outcomes.

DonkeyHotay topcommenter

Abraham Lincoln was a White Supremacist !!

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

edmp

What about the Jefferson / Davis pair of streets through Oak Cliff?

wlubake

You can argue whether or not the Civil War was fought over states' rights or slavery. But if you have studied history or Robert E. Lee in any detail, there is no debate that slavery had nothing to do with his role as a general in the Confederacy. He was reluctantly loyal to his home state, and had considered taking a post with the Union for moral reasons.

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@kduble Napolean, Alexander, and Rommel were not Americans. And, frankly, neither was Caesar Chavez. He may have been born here, but he wasn't an American in spirit.

Stonewall

@noblefurrtexas Robert E. Lee is responsible for more United States military deaths than any other person. More than Hitler, Tojo or Ho Chi Minh. Learn your history.

rufuslevin

@pak152 and Ebola High maybe.

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@pak152 George Orwell is alive and well, apparently, and residing at the DISD "politically correct history reversal" offices at the District.

markzero

@ozonelarryb would that be a natty natatorium, or a gnatty one?

Catbird

@ozonelarryb pretty funny

fred.garvin.mp.713

Well, that's an interesting spin, that blacks should be thankful for slavery, because--after only a few centuries of suffering--in the end, it was all worth it!

CarolinaN

@rogjohns64 She was white - do you mean she wouldn't have been as well-off as she is if her ancestors hadn't made their fortunes off the enforced labor of others?

everlastingphelps topcommenter

@T_S_ Sure, we need more schools named after unprosecuted war criminals.

rufuslevin

@MariaB JWP says WTF you MEAN, Cracker?

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@MariaB But cute.

rufuslevin

@Threeboys I wonder how many DISD students know who their DADDY is.

wcvemail

@DonkeyHotay

Yes, but you would have earned the full point if you had identified the DISD schools named after Lincoln.

dingo

@edmp

George Jefferson and Sammie Davis

fred.garvin.mp.713

People also argue whether the moon landing was faked, but that doesn't mean we should pay any attention to them! Seriously, anyone arguing with a straight face that the Civil War wasn't about slavery really should read...actual historical texts, like the secession documents, or the Cornerstone Speech.

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@wlubake It is also a fact that Robt. E. Lee opposed slavery.

The war was fought over financial reasons because northern companies and the federal government were penalizing the southern states and their produce and products. It had nothing to do with slavery.

It was all about the fundamental and copious rights of states memorialized in our constitution.

Remember, the states created the U.S. and a weak federal government. We also placed citizens at the top of the chain of command; not the bottom where the federal government placed them.

In America, government is the servant, and citizens are the master.

wcvemail

@wlubake

What an odd moral transition came from the intended insult of burying military casualties at his captured VA mansion, while he lived out his days renting a modest home. The universe balanced the justice scale by making his home the place of greatest honor in the U.S. military, Arlington Nat'l Cemetery.

Guesty

@noblefurrtexas And Robert E. Lee was a traitor who fought against Americans. Makes him worse than Rommel.

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@Stonewall @noblefurrtexas A number of Union soldiers died of disease or botched medical treatment. But, the South - with many fewer troops - killed more Union soldiers than their own losses.

Remember, the North invaded the South, and it is a fact of military scholarship and experience that people defending their own territory and homes fight with more ferocity, and certainly know the terrain better.

The no question Lee was an excellent general, and have every intention of driving the North back to their own states and barracks. He came close to succeeding.

fred.garvin.mp.713

True, and after 20 years we still couldn't defeat Ho Chi Minh, whereas after a mere 4 years, the CSA caved in, it's leaders running away in shame.

wcvemail

@fred.garvin.mp.713

I've heard that question before, more than once: don't blacks have it better today in the USA than their distant kin in Africa?

A counter-argument is that by taking as slaves the cream of the crop (healthy, strong, as well as potential rival leaders sold off by tribal leaders to avoid future threats to themselves), the genetic pool was robbed of the potential to eventually advance African societies.

Conjecture and unknowingness, of course

rogjohns64

@CarolinaN Well hell ..... what is she complaining about then?

What, is she a Yankee other something?

Why dont she just cash in her plantation residual entitlement checks and move to the suburbs.

Cause, as you know, all white folk's ancestors were rich plantation owners.

.... where's mine btw?

T_S_

@everlastingphelps @T_S_

http://thatsthejoke.net/

rufuslevin

@everlastingphelps @T_S_ Include B. Hussein Obama Memorial Untalented and Ungifted Alternative Education Institute.

rufuslevin

@wcvemail @DonkeyHotay I thought they were named after toy Lincoln Logs all this time.

rufuslevin

@dingo @edmp Movin on up with a one eyed black jewish boy

wlubake

@fred.garvin.mp.713 Marginalizing other points does not win an argument. The truth is that, yes, for the wealthy southern statesmen leading a charge for secession, the desire to spread slavery to the western territories was a driving force behind the war. However, about 2/3 of southerners didn't own slaves (both by choice and by economic position). However, support for secession was widespread. Population disparity led to a great imbalance between northern and southern states on issues of federal governance. Lincoln won the election without being on the ballot in the majority of southern states. So to contend that slavery was the only issue driving the war is short-sighted. I have studied the secession documents and Cornerstone Speech, as well as many other historical texts on the war. Keep in mind, too, that the Union began the fighting to prevent secession. Was that purely to preserve this concept of a United States or was it to maintain a stronghold over the agricultural center of the country that was greatly disenfranchised in federal matters? The economic viability of the Union depended upon southern agriculture. The key point of my comment above, however, was that slavery had nothing to do with Lee's role in the war. Thus, the author's statement - "Lee and Jackson's fight to perpetuate slavery would seem to disqualify them under those criteria, regardless of their character or other accomplishments." - dismisses Lee unjustly. Jackson was a slave owner, so I won't necessarily go to bat for him.

rufuslevin

@noblefurrtexas @wlubake "splain that to the Bammer and his minions.

rufuslevin

@rogjohns64 @CarolinaN and also members of the KKK and republicans eventually as well......maybe KOCH BROS MIDDLE SCHOOL?

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@rogjohns64 @CarolinaN It is interesting that very few southerners had slaves. They were very expensive, and large families with lots of boys was a better - and cheaper - substitute.

Lincoln wanted to ship the slaves back to their home countries after the war, and Heaven only knows he should have followed through.

Slavery was not an American convention; it was British. And, its unsavory reputation found its way into the Declaration of Independence, our constitution, and a number of official state documents in the North and South.

But, it's time we stopped fighting this war, and let the war dead from both sides - and many southern civilians - rest in peace.

History is what it is; not what someone wishes it was.

fred.garvin.mp.713

I don't agree with all of your points, but I can respect anyone who's at least read the relevant history. I've heard the "it had nothing to do with slavery" point too many times that it all looks the same after awhile, when it's coming from what really amounts to defense of slavery (not saying your viewpoint is).

The Southern leadership, in my view, failed the South, and to some degree the North did as well, handing Lincoln the mess he was given to deal with. Also read Lincoln's 1862 address to the Congress, where he really lays out the quandary. I think it's important to come to this topic with open eyes and mind. Not only do defenders of the CSA overlook basic facts, but they haven't thought through the line of "If Lincoln hadn't acted as such, well then, what?" The Southern secessionist leadership knew exactly where that path was headed.

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@wlubake @fred.garvin.mp.713 Lee was fighting to defend the South against an invasion by the North. He is well known for opposing slavery, and served in the Confederacy as a matter of obligation because of his command of the Virginian military.

wcvemail

@wlubake @fred.garvin.mp.713

You argue well, and you've obviously studied considerably.

noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@rufuslevin @rogjohns64 @CarolinaN The KKK was an invention of Democrats; not Republicans. At one time, it had a somewhat respectable reputation. (Hope Cottage adoption home, in Dallas, was one of their charitable pursuits.)

I know several rather racist Democrats who support the KKK. I don't know a single Republican who does, and I doubt the Koch Bros. would give the organization a dime....unlike Socialist George Soros - Obama's buddy - who constantly bets against America and pulls for our adversaries.