The Battle for Preston Hollow's Soul

Categories: Cover Story

Luke_Crosland_01_byMarkGraham.jpg
Mark Graham
Luke Crosland has been trying -- and failing -- to redevelop Preston Center for years.
Luke Crosland stands at the window of his seventh-floor office and looks out across Preston Center. In the foreground, a tangle of luxury SUVs battle for access to a shabby, two-story parking garage that seems to deteriorate before his eyes. The garage is ringed by a jumble of aging retail strips that wouldn't be out of place in a working-class neighborhood in Garland. Further back, past the Marshalls, a clump of mid-rise office towers stand as a testament to a 1980s office boom.

Crosland is a pugnacious commercial real estate developer best known for the iLume apartments on Cedar Springs Road. He's been gazing down on this scene since he bought into Preston Center 27 years ago. There are trendy new restaurants like John Tesar's Spoon and Hopdoddy Burger Bar, and a few office buildings have gone up here and there, but the difference between now and then is cosmetic. The retail buildings are still outdated. The infrastructure is still crumbling. Three decades of decay have only made the situation worse.

It's a disgrace, Crosland mutters with a mournful shake of the head. Here, Preston Hollow and the Park Cities converge with two of Dallas' busiest streets and the bustling Dallas North Tollway to form an unimaginably rich vein of real estate wealth. There should be an appropriately upscale mix of shops, offices and apartments. Instead, he says, there's a strip center better suited to Des Moines.

Actually, no, that's not fair. A U.S. capital, even Iowa's, is too generous a comparison. Peoria, he decides. Preston Center is like something from Peoria.

It's not just Preston Center. The entire Preston Road/Northwest Highway intersection is
curiously underwhelming given the vast sea of money it floats upon, as if real estate icon Ebby Halliday had pressed a pause button when she moved her headquarters here in the mid-1960s. To the northeast, formerly grand condominiums built in the '50s and '60s decay behind the once-celebrated "pink wall," which a half century of sun and car crashes has left a scarred and splotchy beige. The northwest corner is Ebby's. The little white house that houses her real estate office is a jarring throwback to the 1920s, when developer Ira Deloache built it for his headquarters. She lives in an estate next door. The shopping center on the southeast corner is markedly fancier but still feels cut from an earlier era.

Developers have been lusting after these corners for decades, but their advances have been held at bay by various factors -- zoning restrictions, the splintered ownership of Preston Center and the area behind the pink wall, probable opposition from neighbors. Recently, though, it's been thrust into the middle of a battle for Dallas' soul.

Dallas is, at heart, less an urban area than a conglomeration of sprawling, suburban-style neighborhoods. Most of the city was developed after World War II, when a highway-building craze and the ubiquity of the car fueled speculators to gobble up cheap tracts of land on the increasingly distant fringe and plant subdivisions. North Dallas in particular became a sea of sturdy brick homes distinguished more by the names their developers bestowed -- Midway Hollow, Sparkman Club Estates, The Meadows -- than by any variation in their ranch-style architecture.

Embracing this pattern of development has left the city in a bind. The speculators moved on to Richardson, then Plano, then Frisco and beyond. Dallas, meanwhile, is stuck with the bill for maintaining the sprawling infrastructure necessary to support a city that treats four bedrooms and a professionally manicured backyard as a birthright. The costs could be met if Dallas' population and tax base grow fast enough, but they haven't. Over the last decade, while the rest of North Texas has boomed, Dallas has stagnated. Its population has barely budged and it's hemorrhaged tens of thousands of jobs as employers have followed their workers out of Dallas.

The solution is to make Dallas more dense. Build places where people don't have to get in their cars and cross six lanes of traffic to buy a gallon of milk or waste an hour commuting to work. The suburbs will always be cheaper and newer, but a large, dense population center offers a vibrancy and connectivity the suburbs can't, attributes many people, especially young people, will trade for a white picket fence. Uptown is proof.
For Dallas, the question is how to balance that density with the interests of the single-family neighborhoods that blanket the vast majority of the city's developable land. Should apartments and condo towers be relegated as they currently are to areas that are already dense (downtown), depopulated industrial areas (the Design District and the Cedars) or politically disenfranchised minority neighborhoods (Trinity Groves)? Or should the city encourage density -- well planned and intelligently done -- even when nearby homeowners might object?

The debate came into particularly sharp focus earlier this year when Crosland and commercial real estate developer Transwestern separately rolled out plans to plant large apartment projects at Preston and Northwest Highway. Crosland, gazing down from this seventh-floor perch, saw his project as a catalyst. He imagined a future version of Preston Center, presided over by his apartment tower, pulsing with the vibrancy of Uptown. First, though, he would have to convince Dallas to allow an apartment high-rise in Preston Center. And he would have to do so over the objections of wealthy and powerful Preston Hollow homeowners -- including former Mayor Laura Miller -- who would fight, sometimes fairly and sometimes not-so, to preserve the ugly status quo on the other side of Crosland's glass.

*****

Ashley_Parks_01_byMarkGraham.jpg
Mark Graham
Ashley Parks helped slay a residential project behind Northwest Highway's "pink wall."
Preston Hollow East, bounded generally by Northwest Highway, Preston Road, Walnut Hill Lane and Hillcrest Road, is the quintessential North Dallas neighborhood: a neat grid of quiet, tree-lined streets and spacious lots populated by successful doctors and lawyers and bankers. It lacks something of the grandeur of the lush millionaires' estates of Old Preston Hollow that ramble to the west of Preston Road, and it's missing the prestige of the University Park addresses south of Northwest Highway, but it straddles the line where upper-middle-class blurs into unapologetic wealth.

Ashley Parks is a child of the neighborhood. She grew up on Deloache Avenue, so named for the man who developed Preston Hollow, and was charmed by how peaceful and tight-knit it seemed. Circumstances forced her to spend a dozen years in exile: Her family moved to a new neighborhood two miles to the north in 1989, when Parks was in the eighth grade, and she spent four years at Texas A&M University and a few more living Uptown while she established her financial planning career and settled into adult life. But she always planned to return as soon as possible.

Her opportunity came in 2002, a year after she married an SMU-trained corporate lawyer named James Parks III. Home prices still hadn't recovered from the dot-com bubble's burst, and the couple found a deal on an aging but sturdy three-bedroom brick home on Del Norte, with a swimming pool in back and two magnolia trees shading the front. It was far from perfect -- a row of gargantuan shrubs is all that separates it from bustling Preston Road -- but it possessed the same idyllic charm Parks remembers from her youth.

Parks was a freshman at A&M when her future neighbors felled their first developer. In the spring of 1995, plans were unveiled to raze 144 apartments at the corner of Northwest Highway and Turtle Creek Boulevard to make way for a Tom Thumb-anchored strip center. Homeowners rebelled. Several hundred of them packed Preston Hollow Elementary one February evening to denounce the plan. A week later, it was dead.

The fight unified neighbors and reinvigorated the long-dormant Preston Hollow East Homeowners Association, which has remained an active organization even though the development fights have been few and far between. By the time Parks assumed the presidency in 2011, its energies had long been focused on more mundane tasks -- crime watch patrols, neighborhood get-togethers, West Nile-prevention tips. But the outrage that fueled the 1995 fight never really went away. More like it settled into a state of hibernation, ready to be awakened the next time a developer dared to give it a nudge.

The nudge came late last December, when Parks learned from people living behind the pink wall that Transwestern, a Houston-based behemoth of commercial real estate, had been pitching condo owners on a plan to build an eight-story luxury apartment complex on the corner of Preston and Northwest Highway. Parks called Sarah Dodd, a TV reporter-turned-PR consultant representing Transwestern, and demanded an explanation.
"We met at the Corner Bakery, and she's like 'Look! Look at these amazing plans!'" Parks recalls. "And she showed them to me and I was like, 'My pool! My backyard is in your plans!' -- Literally, my whole pool was there."

Not included in the plans, though Parks needed no help envisioning them, were a gaggle of divorced dads (among Transwestern's target demographics) leering down from their eighth-floor balconies as she and her 7-year-old daughter went for a swim.
After the meeting, Parks sent an email blast to Preston Hollow East HOA members describing her meeting with Dodd. Her neighbors didn't need the prospect of being ogled by middle-aged men to be against the project. "Once everybody heard about this, they were like, 'What do we do? How do we stop this?'" Parks says.

Parks and about 100 of her neighbors filed into the Black-Eyed Pea in Preston Center on the morning of January 25 for a meeting with Transwestern and City Council member Lee Kleinman. Jennifer Staubach Gates, the council member who represents the neighborhood, had appointed Kleinman after recusing herself because her father, Cowboys legend Roger Staubach, and her husband, John Gates, both work for Jones Lang Lasalle, a real estate firm involved in the Transwestern deal.

Transwestern had met with dozens of condo owners, but this was the first face-to-face get-together with the single-family homeowners to the north. Mark Culwell, a senior vice president at Transwestern, opened the meeting with a quick overview of the project: 296 high-end, two- and three-bedroom units, each renting for $2,000 to $5,000 per month to a target market of empty nesters with six-figure incomes. The development would replace the dozen townhomes of Townhouse Row and the small, corrugated-metal-draped apartment complex next door. It would consist of two buildings, vaguely Mediterranean in style, one on either side of Averill Way, stair-stepping from four stories on the north, next to Parks' house, to eight stories along Northwest Highway.

Neighbors were civil but skeptical. They worried that packing 500-plus people onto three acres at the edge of their neighborhood would spoil Preston Hollow East's close-knit feel. The traffic generated by those new residents, plus their visitors, housekeepers and moving vans, would further clog the intersection of Preston and Northwest Highway, they said. Some might careen dangerously down the neighborhood's quiet streets. One homeowner asked if the apartments would welcome low-income residents through HUD vouchers. The answer was no, but Culwell's repeated assurance that Transwestern was catering to rich people did nothing to quell concerns that the development would quickly spiral downward, inviting crime and blight to Preston Hollow's doorstep.



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70 comments
dallegre1
dallegre1

My interest in this situation stems from the fact that I LIVE in the Crosland Properties Ilume and Ilume Park.  The neighborhood was right to block this development, if only to stop The Crosland Group from building a development then letting it fall apart through poor and neglectful management.  As of today, the occupancy rate at the Ilume is 84% - well below the city average, and the occupancy rate at Ilume Park is a startling 38%.  It's a ghost town over here.  The Ilume - a great ideal of mixed use - restaurants, salons, bars, and galleries has yet to be fully occupied on the retail side.  I'm sure the main reason Crosland decided NOT to duplicate that model across the street.  While the location and walkability of these properties is the main draw for living here, the way in which they are managed (or more specifically, not managed) is the biggest drawback.  When the Crosland Group can effectively keep a property in good repair, and sustain and retain good renters, at a rate comparable to city wide averages (in the 90%iles) then maybe they could be given the opportunity to develop more properties.  But beware Dallas, if they want to build something new - come look at how they're doing on the properties they have.

kduble
kduble

Crossland's problem is he's proposing the wrong kind of projects. What we need are what we're getting downtown, Uptown, and in Cityplace West. Creating multipurpose buildings combining ground-level retail, commercial offices, hotel rooms and residences mean you dump a lot of shoppers into the boutiques below without a corresponding increase in vehicular traffic.

GeneParmesan
GeneParmesan

Aggie Parks needs to realize she owns a home on the corner of a busy street. Caveat emptor, no? What's next, she'll complain there are too many cars motoring down Preston? Lots of homes for sale in Dallas. Move.

GeneParmesan
GeneParmesan

Ashley Parks needs to realize she owns a home on the corner of a busy street. Caveat emptor, no? What's next, she'll complain there are too many cars motoring down Preston. Lots of homes for sale in Dallas. Move.

sarah.reed
sarah.reed

The headline implies it had a soul to begin with

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

Crossland, who lives in Highland Park where there is little traffic, is attempting to profit by increasing the misery to others. 


Northwest Highway and Preston Road form an intersecting meeting that is one of the worst in Dallas - if not THE worst.  The reputation of our fair village for HORRIBLE East-West corridors is best seen on Northwest Highway at morning rush hour.  IT'S A DISASTER. 



The LAST thing Preston Hollow or the Park Cities need is more housing creating more traffic, and more apartments.


The soul of Preston Hollow is NOT money, and is NOT a love for traffic.  But, it is about the need for better streets and better traffic controls. 


Crossland is determined to make a badi situation more miserable so he can make money off of the people stuck in traffic every morning, evening, and frequently during the day. 

Now that the Fire Station at Northwest Highway and Douglas is closed, ambulance and fire trucks must come a longer distance to reach the many homes just north of Northwest Highway, and points east and west.  Crossland's plan is to make that worse, and less safe. 

If the Dallas Planning Commission approves this whacky idea, they deserve to be unplugged by the Council.  This is nuts!!!

Gangy
Gangy

Never take Bobby Abtahi seriously.  He is deceptive in his communication and manipulates the press and the microphone at Plan Commission so that he pleases the Big Boys while claiming to be a representative of the people.

whateveryousay
whateveryousay topcommenter

I wonder if she really means "No Non-White People" with her "No Rezoning" sign?  

People in my neighborhood were up in arms when there were plans to put up a basketball court in our neighborhood park.  It was all innuendo about bringing the wrong people.  

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

Crosland would have stood a much better chance of success if the project was owner occupied condos instead of rentals. But there is more risk in developing condos than building rentals and he wasn't willing to take that risk.

I do agree that there is a viable and needed residential market in Preston Center. There is no reason to be against the use as long as it is the right type of project. That being said the Transwestern development was not well conceived, and there is good reason for it to be denied.

Eric, enough with the negative descriptions of Preston Center West. So what of there are old storefronts, and a mish mash of operators. It is a shopping district that has developed organically instead of the fake cool of a West Village. It serves the community and the consumers that surround it, and does not need to be gentrified.

Mervis
Mervis

Interesting read.

Pseudonymph
Pseudonymph

I'm highly entertained by the McMansionaires and their not wanting people up above them peering into their yards and windows. I'm highly entertained by the McMansion dwellers being averse to incompatible building, which would be out of size and scope with pre-existing structures. Supreme hypocrites. I almost wish the developer had won, except that I don't want the dern thing, either.

LionelHutz
LionelHutz

There seems to be an army of folks from Lake Highlands, East Dallas, Lakewood, or wherever, that use NW Hwy to get to jobs in Grapevine, Las Colinas, Irving, etc. West bound traffic on NW Hwy starts getting dense around 6:30 am. The "rush hour" traffic in the evening starts getting thick around 3:00. It's really sad watching them cannonball run it home in the evening at 60 mph only to slam on the breaks to a dead stop behind eastbound traffic that's backed up from the Tollway all the way past Midway rd. I'm sure they're all a little relieved. 



noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@dallegre1 Thanks for the warning.  I got a kick out of the description of Crosland as "pugnacious".  That's not what I hear from those who know him.  He may be pugnacious with those he can intimidate, but that changes to a mild-mannered pussy cat when he's intimidate by someone else...or so they say.  Interestingly, that's the same problem Obama has.  He's a bully when he can get away with, but he studiously avoids those who won't put up with his B.S.. (That's why he doesn't like to negotiate with equals or betters.)


I have the impression that Crosland waded into the Preston Center area without communicating with the neighborhoods about their tolerance for more traffic, tall buildings that steal their privacy, more multi-family dwellings, and more competition from getting restaurant reservations to longer lines in a variety of places. 


And, what is Crosland doing for the neighborhood and the neighbors? 

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@kduble I think there's a great deal of truth to this.  But, to take a mature city like Dallas, and try to convert it to non-automobile transportation, is a difficult feat.  And, Texans like their cars and pickups. 

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@sarah.reed Many of those people and their families built Dallas.  I'd say that's soul enough, and wanting to protect their neighborhoods from further unnecessary traffic is something done all over Dallas. 


You don't seem to understand urban traffic counts.  It's not just the 500 (or more) people who live there, but those who visit them, make deliveries to them, do maintenance and repairs for them, and overnight guests...if you know what I mean. 


If you want to kill Preston Center, and make it look like the commercial slum DSW Shoes did, just flood it with more people going to stores, trying to find parking places, not interested in totally full restaurants and bars, and unable to drive faster than 5 mph until they are several blocks away.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas

Crossland, who lives in Highland Park where there is little traffic

apparently you never travel along Mockingbird Lane between the Tollway and Hillcrest, or Preston Road between NW Highway and Mockingbird Lane....plenty of traffic there.

Now that the Fire Station at Northwest Highway and Douglas is closed 

it's being rebuilt. it will be open in a couple months.

The LAST thing Preston Hollow or the Park Cities need is more housing 

The community needs new investment, it needs "more housing", and in the right environment it needs higher density residential development. Preston Center is that right environment for the higher density housing, as long as it is the correct type (owner occupied vs renter occupied) and its construction should be encouraged.

kduble
kduble

@Gangy  I attended Planning Commission hearings on Cityplace Sam's, and I was somewhat sympathetic with his predicament. They didn't have authority to deny a project just because it was dumb, it had to be non-conforming.

kduble
kduble

@mavdog  I would agree, except these projects are being denied for the wrong reasons. It isn't so much their size, as that they aren't the truly urban, walkable projects we need. So long as developers insist on proposing single-use, car-dependent designs, those protesting congestion have a point.

kduble
kduble

@LionelHutz  Quality, walkable urban design doesn't increase traffic, it reduces it. That being said, I must admit none of these recent projects have quite risen to that standard.

ashleer1703
ashleer1703

@LionelHutz  You nailed it. I live in Lake Highlands and use NW Hwy to get to my job on the Irving side of Ft. Worth. I've started taking Royal (or sometimes Walnut Hill) just so I don't have to sit there watching the sun setting faster than I'm moving. Even factoring in the multiple school zones in the mornings, it's still faster overall. I can't even imagine how much worse that development would've made the surrounding intersections.


The only problem with my alternate route? While NW Hwy isn't 100% smooth, both Royal and especially Walnut Hill have potholes the size of my car. There's also a particular part of Royal (I believe just past the Disney streets before you reach Marsh) where you can actually catch air if you're going fast enough. Alas, that's another fight for another day...

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@Myrna.Minkoff-Katz One of the ladies in my office said he looks more like Mitt Romney.  My radar didn't pick up whether that was a compliment or a put down.  :)

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas @dallegre1

I've dealt with Luke Crosland, and not sure if "pugnacious" is accurate. Crosland is well off person who has successfully completed many commercial and residential projects, which success typically produces a very confident and determined individual. They don't need to kiss ass.

Crosland has done other developments in Preston Center over the last 2 decades, so to say he "waded into Preston Center" is not in any way accurate.

What is Crosland "doing for the neighborhood and the neighbors"? He's proposing to invest many $millions, that is definitely "doing something for the neighborhood".

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @kduble  This isn't so much the case with the youngest people, hence the popularity of Zipcar, Lyft and Uber.
 I know we can't "convert" a city overnight, but we can input new design codes for new buildings, and we can rework the streets one at a time as we've begun to do.

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @sarah.reed  The solution is people getting there on foot, and on scooters and bikes. This requires quality urban design in walkable communities. We're getting some of this around Cityplace West. Unfortunately, these projects were the same car-dependent type projects that have caused the problem, only bigger.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@mavdog Crossland's street does not have a great deal of diversionary neighborhood traffic.  Yet, he wants to send even more cars speeding to work or coming home into the neighborhoods adjacent to Preston and Northwest Highway. 


I frequently am forced to use Mockingbird to get where I need to go, and it sucks.  The other day, there was a traffic jam from Inwood Road well past Skillman, mostly because of narrowed lanes around S.M.U. 


Talk to most people around Preston Center, and they'll tell you they moved into those neighborhood because of a lack of high density.  So, increased density is not a good selling point, and only further makes life more difficult for those living there. 


There's an old-fashioned way of improving shopping centers.  Remodel, restock with competitive and attractive businesses, and resell customers on the available new options.  (Thanks to Henry S. Miller.)

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@kduble @LionelHutz Traffic in Dallas is really situational.  For example, traffic on McKinney from Fairmont north for several blocks, you have lots of people walking, but really slowing down traffic. And, a number of people who live in the condos and apartments around that area - who have little or no assigned residential parking, park on the streets. 


They won't give up their cars, because many of them work many miles away from their homes.  


So, in this case, density DOES increase traffic.

I fully agree that lots of advanced planning needs to take place to create enclaves that are walkable.  Even then, most people will use cars during rush hours to get to and from work. 


As the Mayor of Dallas has sadly discovered, you can't just throw money at creating bike paths and bike lanes in busy traffic, and expect people to use them.  Even the Fascist changes in the City Charter didn't solve the problem, and many of the painted bike lanes are simply fading away. 


It's also good to remind ourselves that Dallas weather does not necessarily lend itself to walking or bike riding.  We have extremes of heat in the Summer, and we have extremes of cold in the Winter.



LionelHutz
LionelHutz

@ashleer1703 @LionelHutz Right, a dramatic increase in congestion and traffic on NW Hwy would have a ripple effect for commuters. Commuters would just move over to Walnut Hill, Royal, or Forest, and they would get even more congested. Traffic would increase on Lemmon Ave too. It seems alot of folks take Lemmon across town to get west in the morning. If you drive down Lemmon in the morning past Love Field, before it turns into Marsh, there is usually a line backed up 20 deep to turn left (go west) onto NW Hwy. In the evenings the congestion on eastbound Lemmon is very thick. I'm guessing those folks don't all live downtown.


noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas @dallegre1 I don't know Crosland, so that jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.  But some friends in HP and acquaintances elsewhere know him. 


If Crosland is such a shrewd developer, I'm curious why he couldn't predict that Preston Hollow and UP denizens would NOT like his proposed building, and would object to having their fenced yards put on display to the world.  (HP is experiencing a similar conflict for a multi-family dwelling by the KATY Trail and Knox. )



I should think he would have contacted the neighbors most impacted before the plans where known, and held some receptions for them to get their ideas and present his own.

As I mentioned earlier, one of the main gripes of people in the Park Cities and in Preston Hollow is insufficient traffic accommodations, and street conditions. 


That's a lesson he could have learned from Jim Favor and Ray Nasher. 



noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@kduble @noblefurrtexas @sarah.reed In the Knox Street area, they are working on that very thing.  However, Park Cities customers are not likely to walk to Preston Center West...or East, for that matter.


As you  know, Dallas is not a very "walkable" city.  As I understand it, the only reason DART passed was the fact that it got domestics to work, and took some drivers off the streets. 


I'm not at all against "walkable areas" in cities.  In fact, I've seen them in Taipei, Sydney, Oakland, and Seattle.  However, people still get to the areas by car. THAT is the tough thing to break, because it also represent freedom and independence.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas

Crosland doesn't have any desire to have "more cars speeding". It's ridiculous of you to describe people in that manner. The fact of the matter is Preston Center currently has higher density residential and commercial projects because the street infrastructure exists surrounding it.

Good to see that you agree with my comment that you were wrong about the Park Cities traffic.

The residents around Preston Center live where they do with the knowledge that Preston Center is a higher density market, so they would not be surprised if more high density developments were placed there. As these new developments will help keep their property taxes from increasing they will likely support the concept.

Henry S. Miller Jr. is long gone, and he sure didn't invent nor improve the business of shopping centers. Retail exists because of demand by consumers and is a constantly evolving industry.

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @kduble @LionelHutz  Most everyplace in the U.S. has extremes in weather, not just us. I've done quite a bit of reading on what makes bike infrastructure successful. You can as well on the web. But, in summary, simply painting stencils on streets, which is about 85% of what Dallas has done, doesn't really change very much. What has been shown to get people on their bikes is separate cycling lanes with some sort of physical barrier. Even flex posts, like we have in some spots separating HOV lanes, result in a substantial increase in cycling. Flex posts really don't provide much protection, but their perceived protection, actually makes cyclists feel safer, and in so doing, gets more people to ride.


The problem is Dallas really hasn't thrown money at the problem. Dallas is doing a great job on trails, but for actually accommodating cyclists in traffic, it has done relatively little. Even places like Waco and Fort Worth are ahead of us.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas

If Crosland is such a shrewd developer, I'm curious why he couldn't predict that Preston Hollow and UP denizens would NOT like his proposed building, and would object to having their fenced yards put on display to the world.

first, UP has no standing in the zoning application, the former Crosland tract is in Dallas. Second, the property where Crosland proposed to build the residential tower doesn't have any properties with "fenced yards" anywhere near it.

you aren't very familiar with Preston Center are you?

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @kduble @sarah.reed  We aren't talking about the people there now. We're talking about the occupants of the new buildings. The Gen Y crowd has made a clear break from the past. For them, car ownership does NOT represent freedom and independence, hence, the popularity of Zipcar and Uber. We need to build for the residents of the future, not for the ones my age who'll be dying off soon enough.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas @kduble @sarah.reed

and make it look like the commercial slum DSW Shoes did,

LMAO! those DSW customers are the very same customers who patronized Sanger-Harris when they occupied that building.

what a crock of BS you toss out...

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas Crosland doesn't have any desire to have "more cars speeding". It's ridiculous of you to describe people in that manner.

Where the people are, the cars are.  Not many folks in the Park Cities or Preston Hollow ride DART buses. 

Where does he think they will drive, park, get gas, get maintenance, etc,?  

You cannot increase density without increasing traffic and parking problems.  

There is zero chance of light rail reaching Preston Center for decades, and I doubt DART could afford the right-of-way or the real estate for stations within "North Dallas walking distance". 


So, the car remains King, and developers seeking to increase traffic remain outcasts.



noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas I honestly don't know where you got all of this bunk.


I'm very familiar with Park Cities traffic, and also quite familiar with the traffic that diverts from Lovers and Northwest Highway and speeds through neighborhoods.  Depending on where you are, It starts at the Tollroad and diverts from Lovers, and Northwest Highway and goes to-or-past Hillcrest. 


A number of people in the Park Cities, not to mention several national organizations, praised Miller for his stewardship of Highland Park Village shopping.  Miller may be dead, but his principles are no less valid.  In fact, Adam Smith is dead, but we still use his principles in everyday Economics and business planning. 


Park Cities property taxes will go up because individual properties will be valued higher.  Most of the people there would PAY to reduce the traffic levels, and both city councils constantly address traffic problems. 


Dallas has pretty good North-South conduits, thanks in part to Central Expressway, Preston Road, and the Tollroad.  But, East-West conduits suck, and more and more traffic diverts through neighborhoods to avoid traffic and red lights.


George Shrader, the best city manager Dallas ever had, warned about North Dallas traffic, and especially the lack of East-West corridors.  He has been proved correct, over and over. (btw...He is still alive; old, but alive.)

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @mavdog "You cannot increase density without increasing traffic and parking problems"

Quickly, which has worse afternoon traffic, downtown Dallas or suburban Plano? Your statement is blatantly false, as is evidenced by dense cities throughout the world over which are far easier to get about in than North Dallas. The problem is bad design, aka car-dependence. Density is the solution, but it must be done right. Alas, none of these buildings rise to that standard. You can see density done right in places like Cityplace West, Uptown, and Victory. These have greater population density than Preston Hollow, yet their traffic is nowhere near as bad.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas

Yes, "bunk" is an appropriate phrase for what you are saying.

First, an increase in the density of Preston Center will have little if any effect on traffic flows on Lovers Lane. Lovers is a mile away. The streets that run in the residential neighborhoods all have many, many stop signs that inhibit anyone trying to save time from using them. If you have any doubts on the UP police enforcing traffic laws you are wrong.

HPV is all you have as testimony to Miller? I knew HSM Jr., did you? Ray Nasher had a larger impact on retail centers than Miller BTW.

Preston Center West is in Dallas, not UP. Other than the east-west streets that UP and HP keep as single lanes, Dallas east-west work well. If you understand the Tollway impact on east-west, as only a handful of streets bridge the highway, you would know your remark on "traffic diverts through neighborhoods" is a bunch of nonsense.

You mean George Schrader? He was OK, but he was a loyal servant of the Folsom's et al who profited from sweetheart development agreements where the City paid too much, provided too much infrastructure and the developers paid too little.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@kduble @noblefurrtexas @mavdog Most people in Plano don't work there.


It's true that increased density makes mass transit - such as light rail - more affordable to build and operate.  However, when you look at destinations, downtown Plano would be the destination for the fewest people in your comparison.  


I couldn't agree more than most walkable communities are planned; not accidental  Weather is also an issue, as are demographics and especially age. 


The key is to not only plan for more walking and more two-wheel conveyances, but also to educate those who might use the alternatives. 


But, in the final analysis, if they don't perceive a benefit, they won't use the system.  Cars offer far more independence.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@kduble @noblefurrtexas @mavdog IN DALLAS, when you pack more people into an area - even Uptown, you increase the number of cars, and increase the number of necessary parking places at living areas and shopping areas.  No?

Also keep in mind that Preston Hollow, UP, and HP are NOT walkable areas.  Heck, their children don't even walk or ride bikes to school.  They drive cars - most of them really nice ones. 

There are areas of Hong Kong where you can walk, but most people get around with some kind of vehicle. 

Again, I'm not against walkable areas.  I ride a bike to some areas in my neighborhood, but I wouldn't ride a bike to work with a gun to my head. 

And, in Uptown, there's a lot more traffic than 15 years ago - especially on McKinney.  Some of those people may take transit to get to work; most don't. 



noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@mavdog I never said Preston Center West was in UP.  But, many of the customers are.


Ask the UP police about diversion traffic using residential neighborhoods to avoid the traffic on Northwest, or Lovers Lane.  Stop signs take less time than traffic lights, and if you dodge the school zones, it's MUCH faster to use neighborhood streets - and diversion traffic does. 


I agree Lovers Lane is about a mile or so from Northwest Highway.  I don't know what that has to do with anything.  But, MOST of the streets between the two go all the way through from the Tollroad to Central.  NOT the case south of Lovers Lane, and very limited north of Nortwest Highway.

Do the count yourself.  If you exit the Tollroad heading East on NW, you have six or seven red lights to deal with.  If you take Southwestern, there are two (although one is frequently blinking)  - and no school zones.  Lovers Lane from the Tollroad has 10 or so heading for Central Expressway, and a school zone for UP Elementary.   


The point is, more traffic on Northwest Highway drives more diversion traffic to the residential streets south of NW.


I knew Henry and Juanita, his wife.  I also knew Ray Nasher, and I agree that Nasher was a superior developer to Miller.  That still doesn't take away from Henry S. Miller. 


Yes; I know how George spells his last name.  My typo arises from having a good friend named Shrader from graduate school days.  Schrader was mostly loyal to Erik Jonsson, who brought him into the job.  Folsom was almost an absentee mayor in many ways, and Schrader ran the city the way a Council-Manager form of government is supposed to operate. Some people liked him; many anti-developer types and liberals not so much.  

And what was the biggest gripe?  North Dallas traffic and lack of attention to streets and solving the traffic problems. (It wasn't the only gripe, but it would compete for the most vehement.)

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @kduble @mavdog It isn't just a matter of educating "those who might use the alternatives" so much as better design. For example, we have way too much signalization at our intersection. This annoys motorists as well as inconveniences cyclists. Roundabouts, in many spots, would be more efficient the vast majority of the time. It's something you can think about the next time you needlessly idle at a light at 11 p.m. In most countries, you wouldn't be put in such a positions.

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @kduble @mavdog  What you're saying about Dallas has certainly been the case up until now, but the theme of Nicholson's article is the city can't grow its population without more density. It's also true that the city's standards on these matters are decades out-of-date, even compared to a place like Austin. For example, in Austin, it's against code to build a free-standing parking garage in the central district without including some sort of retail component. And, when it comes to bicycle accommodation, even Fort Worth and Waco are more advanced than Dallas. But, change will have to come. Our current way of doing things here in Dallas simply isn't sustainable.


BTW, I commute to my job downtown daily by bike. Even so, it wouldn't be safe or appropriate to try this on Northwest Highway through Preston Hollow. We'd need separate infrastructure there. This has been a failing of these projects to date. I know we can't make the city more walkable and more bike-friendly over night, but we can certainly require better infrastructure for new projects breaking ground.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas

I agree Lovers Lane is about a mile or so from Northwest Highway.  I don't know what that has to do with anything.

than you clearly show that you do not understand traffic patterns

The point is, more traffic on Northwest Highway drives more diversion traffic to the residential streets south of NW. 

no, that is inaccurate. a thru commuter will not go off NW Highway to residential streets, it slows them down.

If you exit the Tollroad heading East on NW, you have six or seven red lights to deal with.  

no, not if you live in Preston Center. You have one signal and it very well might be green. We're talking about residential development in Preston Center, remember?

Folsom was almost an absentee mayor

who is talking about his time as Mayor? I mentioned him as he was one of the primary developers of northern Dallas. please try and concentrate.

kduble
kduble

@noblefurrtexas @mavdog  The answer to traffic is better, more urban designs. It isn't about building the same kind of stuff, only not as big.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas 

I'll state this nicely.  You don't have a clue what you're talking about.  During rush hour morning and evening traffic, you can beat the Toll Road to Central Expressway with a stick by diverting to a neighborhood street. And, if you're going all the way, you connect with Southwestern which takes you all the way. 


People on Lovers Lane have the same challenge, and if they're going to-or-past Central, Southwestern is a good bet for them, and it's faster. (Southwestern is also a slightly wider street.)


Nobody was talking about living in Preston Center.  I'm giving you transitory traffic patterns between NW and Lovers, and and the Tollroad and Central. 

BTW...from the Tollroad to Douglas for a right turn, you have either two or three lights; not one.   If you're going to Preston Center East, you have yet another light, and you'll wait until you retire during rush hour. If you turn right from Douglas to Sherry Lane, you'll have two MORE lights. (By the way, the light at Douglas and Sherry is one of the longest in Dallas.  Special deal for the hotel.)


You said George Schrader was somehow a minion of Folsom's.  That's ridiculous.  Schrader got the job as City Manager from Erik Jonsson for his work on Goals For Dallas, and other projects. 


Try to pay attention and read more carefully.  :)

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@noblefurrtexas

There is no logic in what you are claiming about traffic patterns. where are these commuters going that you claim travel on Lovers or southwestern?

Nobody was talking about living in Preston Center. 

don't you remember what this article is all about??? residential projects in Preston Center! the subject IS "talking about living in Preston Center". wow...

you can beat the Toll Road to Central Expressway with a stick

that makes zero sense.

from the Tollroad to Douglas for a right turn, you have either two or three lights; not one

wrong. Douglas is the first light east of the DNT. you really don't know much about this area/Preston Center do you?

You said George Schrader was somehow a minion of Folsom's.  That's ridiculous.

no, what I said was he was a "servant", he gave Folsom sweetheart co-development deals that put substantial expenses on the City to the benefit of the residential  Developer, who in many cases was Folsom. This was before Folsom was Mayor.

noblefurrtexas
noblefurrtexas topcommenter

@mavdog @noblefurrtexas Try this.  I simplified it. 


Increased automobiles at rush hour on a main artery like NW drives even more people to divert to residential streets.  (The same thing is true of Lovers Lane, but we'll forget that for the moment.)


Moving more people into Preston Center will increase traffic congestion.  They may like walking to and from the Tom Thumb (I don't know why), but they aren't going to walk to work.  That means they drive their car, hitch a ride, or whatever, and that increases traffic during rush hours.

It doesn't matter that the traffic diverts to the UP.  It would be almost as bad in Preston Hollow. (Some people think Park Lane is a great avoidance, even with its 200 speed bumps.  

TheThe bottom line is that several hundred additional cars every morning, plus the other vehicles I spoke of, will not only clog NW more, but cause more diversions.  

Thanks for clarifying what you meant about Schrader.  He was also in tight with the head of the Dallas Citizens Council, and Alex Bickley who was City Attorney for a while, and with the Dallas Chamber of Commerce, head by Dan Petty who was a former Asst. City Manager. I read somewhere that he was also a favorite of Standard & Poors, and Moodys - the two main bond houses in the U.S. 

Folsom was an interesting mayor, from a historical perspective.  Among his most interesting feats was building Reunion Arena with Revenue Bonds instead of having voters approve Capital Improvement Bonds.  Slick!

 



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