Thank you, Gov. Christie. Only You Could Make Dallas Look Good On Ebola.

Speaking of Ebola:  I saw a news story this morning that said this quarantined nurse misled the public, and actually worked for the CDC, and her attorney was associated with Al Sharpton and the White House.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/10/quarantined-nurse-kaci-hickox-misled-public-works-cdc-attorney-tied-white-house-al-sharpton/

But, this gets even better.

This nurse, now in Maine, has refused to follow the voluntary quarantine agreement, and will do whatever she wants to.

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2014/10/29/lawyer-maine-nurse-who-treated-ebola-patients-in-west-africa-wont-observe-states-quarantine

It also appears she has panicked her neighbors and others.

http://www.centralmaine.com/2014/10/28/nurse-released-from-quarantine-wont-immediately-return-to-ft-kent-home/

Schutze publishes a series of posts expressing concern over the messages and handling of ebola.

Two governors of different parties institute protocols based on the same concerns Jim expressed.

Jim freaks out at one of the governors.

That is all.

Dallas is to be largely forgiven where Mr. Duncan was concerned,  We had an idiot County Judge grandstanding for votes in his re-election attempt next week, and we had hospitals and doctors that never dealt with Ebola or any hemorrhagic virus. We also had a rampantly dishonest patient, Mr. Duncan, who was incredibly dishonest and that's how he brought the Ebola to America. 

But, more to the aftermath, one of the main bad players was the CDC.  They had no protocols for Ebola, and didn't know much about it.  (Obama's CDC is very different and less efficient than the past CDCs.)

The local medical community scrambled to find out how to treat Ebola, and keep it from spreading.  But, that still left a hole they couldn't close by themselves. 

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A VOLUNTARY QUARANTINE.  The very definition of the word means an imposed isolation.  In fact, the word "quarantine' is taken from the Venetian language and means "40 days" which was the period vessels that sailed to foreign countries were isolated under mandatory rules.

The weak link in the chain was the CDC, and its failures to be prepared for a disease running rampant in West Africa.  But, they were too concerned with bicycle helmets, "gun violence" and spanking your kid. 

It was the CDC that said Ebola might be able to live up to five hours on "perfect" host surfaces.  But, reality is that IT CAN LIVE UP TO 50 DAYS ON CERTAIN SURFACES!

Christie and Cuomo were right to impose a mandatorey quarantine on anyone coming back from a country where Ebola was rampant.  But, the quarantine the nurse is under, in a tent with portable toilet, means she is being punished when she has done nothing wrong.  I believe the state has an oblgiation to make those they quarantine comfortable, provide computers and televisions, and make sure cell service is active and working. 

America has the best public health system in the world, no thanks to our President.  So, we'll get this figured out.  But, people exposed to Ebola need to undertand another basic concept: 

Your liberties and civil rights take a back seat to the safety and security of the general public, and government has every bit of authority needed to impose a quarantine in a public health emergency. 

I have every confidence that we'll get this right, and I certainly agree with Jim Schutze that Christie made Dallas look good.  But, he and Cuomo should stick to their guns where quarantines are concerned.  That saves lives; and the principle lives we need to worry about are HERE.

"The second point was just as strong: that the healthcare workers fighting this disease here or fighting it in Africa are heroes who are defending our country just like the soldiers who risk their lives in war."

Let's not forget that soldiers have deployed to west Africa to support efforts to contain the ebola outbreak there.  All of them, on their return, are subject to a strict quarantine (exceeding Federal and Pentagon requirements in most cases) before reintegrating with the population.

Time to quarantine Fat Turd Repuglykkkans from New Jersey.

"Uh, Mr. President.  I think we should re-work the AP Style Book, replace 'home quarantine' with 'self-monitoring'.  

"Quarantine is a non-starter, sir."

"make it so".

This Just In!  Maryland Imposes Self-Quarantine - Republicanism Breaking Out All Over NE Seaboard!  Citizens Leaping from Bridges Before Christie Shuts Them Down - Developing

BALTIMORE (WJZ) –The state of Maryland announced new steps to protect the public from people who have been exposed to Ebola in parts of West Africa.  As Derek Valcourt explains, Maryland is following several other states in imposing quarantines on those who have been exposed to Ebola, including health care professionals.  Gov. Martin O’Malley and top state health staff unveiled their new plan to carefully monitor people entering Maryland who have recently been exposed to the deadly Ebola virus in the West African countries of Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/10/27/omalley-to-update-marylands-ebola-monitoring-policy/

@Veritas That is VERY interesting indeed!  It is also of interest that she was wholly uncooperative about the quarantine.  (I don't like the conditions she was under, and it was more like she was being punished.  But, the quarantine was perfectly reasonable. )

@ivyhall

He's busy explaining how 400 Experts have contacted ebola, but the threat is low.

@ivyhall I hope he's been fired and given a job as an orderly in some Mexican Clinic.  He's a political joke.

@bvckvs2 One of Obama's primary responsibilities is protecting the American people.  Yet, he floundered around on Ebola for weeks before figuring out what he should have done.  That is pathetic, and a lack of leadership.  (I strongly suspect his permanent campaign operation in Chicago was doing polls and focus groups on the subject - the same way he makes so many other decisions.)

We were also not getting any valid leadership out of the CDC, which USED to the gold standard for communicable diseases.  However, Obama has let it deteriorate, and made political instead of scientific appointments to lead it.

(Gun violence and not wearing tricycle helmets are NOT communicable diseases...but the CDC is quite focused on them instead of its main jobs. )

We SHOULD have national recommendations on what to do about Ebola to inform Americans with the truth about the disease, but to prevent panic or over-reaction.  We STILL don't have that. 

Leadership means taking risks.  But, when you have a psychologically risk-averse president, you are in serious trouble.  That's why he adopted "leading from behind", one of the most absurd strategies ever in human history.  And, sure enough, it was a failure with the exception of supporting the Muslim Brotherhood all over the Middle East and now in Africa. (We even severely damaged our long-standing relationship with Egypt.)

@RTGolden1 They are being quarantined in Italy, much the same way as Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines was used to quarantine soldiers coming from potential pandemic areas.

@RTGolden1

Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death

@holmantx 

Maryland's policy is quite nuanced.

people who have been exposed but did not utilize protective procedures are to be quarantined.

healthcare professionals who were in the zone but used protecttive procedures are limited in their use of public transportation and large gatherings.

not quite a "self quarantine". not actually a quarantine...

Brian Williams of NBC's Nightly News read a statement from Dr. Snyderman, 62, on television Monday night in which she apologized for breaking the voluntary self-confinement agreement she made with federal, state and local officials while living in Princeton after traveling to West Africa.

@noblefurrtexas

She's a dem. Her imprisonment by a republican was to good a crisis to let slide.

@riconnel8 @bvckvs2 Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and George W. Bush were excellent leaders -- worlds better than Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama (probably America's worst president). 

Leadership means taking risks, making critical decisions that might not be popular, knowing the direction of the country, risking credibility to solve problems, and doing what is necessary to protect the American people, and being there to rally the country in times of crisis. 

Obama play golf and has rock stars to the White House.

@noblefurrtexas @RTGolden1

... that was more of a VD quarantine so the GIs didn't bring any crotch rot back home to their wives..

@mavdog @holmantx

Parsing

@holmantx This is exactly why quarantines must be mandatory.  It doesn't matter if she's "sorry"; she could have killed untold numbers of people. 

Quarantine s must not only be mandatory, and isolation achieved, but they need to be monitored - and perhaps even guarded. 

Ebola, like the Plague, is nothing to screw around with.

@holmantx

And just to piss people off, Christie disputes the media's contention that he "caved".

He's trying to kill us all, I tell you.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/391234/christie-ebola-quarantine-i-didnt-reverse-any-decision-brendan-bordelon

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas @RTGolden1 They got shots for that.

@DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas @RTGolden1 Actually, it had little to do with sexually transmitted diseased. (Hell, I've heard there was more VD in the Philippines than most other cities where GIs were stationed.   It was also rehab location for druggies, a holding area for wounded, but a fairly large staff devoted to communicable diseases. 

As you might imagine, the military was almost paranoid about communicable diseases.  With service people so close together, and often living in barracks with just a few feet between beds, they've always taken these diseases quite seriously. 

They even frequently gave both officers and enlisted troops TB Tine test which would not only indicate if you had some stage of TB, but if you had even been around someone with TB. 

@holmantx

are all healthcare workers returning from Africa, who came into contact with a person with Ebola, quarantined in the MD policy?

@riconnel8 Well this is interesting.  Either you ignored the facts or were too desperate to win a debate. 

You cited: 

490 days at Crawford Ranch

487 days at Camp David

43 days at Kennebunkport Compound

You neglected to mention that President Bush held meetings at all three of those locations, and especially with foreign leaders.  Both the Kennebunkport Compound at Walkers Pointand the Crawford Ranch have Secret Service facilities, media briefing rooms, secure guest quarters, complete Presidential communications systems, and many of the same command and control accoutrements as Air Force One, which is really a flying command post as well as executive aircraft. 

@riconnel8 Your biggest problem isn't that you're looking at things through different filters than noblefurr, it's that you and noblefurr are looking at things through the same filter, from different directions.  Republican or Democrat doesn't seem to matter much to the average American.  If you are very rich, you tend to benefit from republican administrations.  If you are very poor, you tend to benefit from democrat administrations.  If you are, like most of us, somewhere in the middle, you just get screwed.

By the way, having a Surgeon General would not have made a difference.  It is not the political appointees who make the government work or fail, it is the bureaucrats, and they were in place.  Besides, ebola was out of Murthy's range of concerns, he would have been too busy trying to quarantine gun owners to bother with ebola.

@RTGolden1 @DonkeyHotay @noblefurrtexas

Unless they were from Tuskegee ... and Black.

'murrikkka!!

@mavdog @holmantx

To return to Maine, Hickox will not travel on mass transit or commercial aircraft, the state Department of Health said. State officials there will coordinate food and medicine for Hickox while under quarantine, if needed. 

New York, New Jersey, Florida and Illinois imposed the mandatory quarantines after Dr. Craig Spencer, a Doctors Without Borders physician who treated patients in Guinea, was diagnosed with Ebola last Thursday. The doctor, who is now in isolation at New York’s Bellevue Hospital, had been on the subway, went bowling and to a park and restaurant before showing symptoms. 

An official also said the White House is developing new guidelines for dealing with health care workers who return from duties in Africa and would have more to say on the subject in the days ahead. 

snip!

How many days!  Say, nine days? After the Mid-terms ???? (this just keeps getting better and better).

What happens if there's a friggin TSUNAMI on Tuesday?  A WAVE election (ha!).

I can see it now. NEWSFLASH - RUN FOR YOUR LIVES THE REPUBLICANS ARE TAKING OVER - WIDESPREAD PANIC; WORSE THAN EBOLA PANDEMIC

@holmantx Turning her loose was a major mistake, and transits a very dangerous message to others about Ebola and quarantines.

@holmantx 

so the answer to my question is no, the MD policy is not a quarantine of all the healthcare workers who travel back from the Ebola zone in Africa. It is a restriction on the transportaion they may take and the size of events they may attend, but it is not a quarantine..

thanks for avoiding answering the question!

@noblefurrtexas @holmantx I don't know, noble. The message it sends to me is that he quarantine wasn't necessary What message does it send to you?

@mavdog @holmantx holmantx thinks MD is the abbreviation for Maine, mavdog. You have to spell things out for some people.

@mavdog @holmantx

@bmarvel @noblefurrtexas @holmantx I have a major concern that this virus can infect a huge number of people if our population and healthcare professionals don't take it seriously. 

I think she could have asked for a scientific medical review, and done it in a responsible way.  Instead, SHE made the judgement that she should be turned loose, and did so by threatening a lawsuit with her attorney.  THAT is not professional for a healthcare professional - no matter how spoiled. 

There is nothing casual about public health quarantines, and treating them in that fashion is a huge mistake. 

@bmarvel @mavdog @holmantx

Gov. Martin O'Malley announced Monday  State health officials expect about 10 to 20 people to enter the state each day from Liberia, Guinea or Sierra Leone, and they will closely monitor each traveler for fever and any other signs of Ebola. But officials will not require all of them to stay in quarantine.  Instead, measures to protect the public from possible exposure to the virus will depend on circumstances including whether a traveler reports direct contact with Ebola-infected bodily fluids, use of personal protective equipment around Ebola patients, or no known contact with Ebola patients.

You see, that only means the healthcare workers who had direct contact, used personal protective equipment, or had contact with Ebola patients.  That doesn't necessarily mean healthcare workers who had direct contact, used personal protective equipment.  or had contact with Ebola patients.

Are you clear on this now?  

There's gonna be a test.

@holmantx 

thanks for validating my point.

@noblefurrtexas @bmarvel @holmantx I think the focus of mav and marvel's problem with the quarantine is the same as your professed problem with the release from quarantine.  The science.

The imposition of a quarantine was a political reaction to a situation that was already spiraling down; they hype just hadn't caught up to the reality.  It was a political health quarantine, designed primarily to insulate the political careers of two governors from ebola side-effects, like un-election.  You can tell it was political quarantine because it was reversed by political pressure, not the weight of expert opinion or fact.

Nothing to see here.

@noblefurrtexas @bmarvel @holmantx I repeat the question nobody here as yet has answered: What is the medical evidence that as things now stand a quarantine is necessary to prevent the wider spread of Ebola to the American public? 

If there is such evidence then, very well, declare a quarantine. specify the exact circumstances, and provide the necessary facilities and medical personnel. 

If, on the other hand, it is the politicians who are demanding quarantines -- and then, apparently, un-demanding them -- then the problem is not really a public health problem, is it? It's a public sanity problem..

@holmantx @bmarvel @mavdog I was never unclear, holmantx. 

All I want to know is whether quarantine is an effective and proven public health measure  under present circumstances? What s the science on this. Not what is the politics.

@mavdog @holmantx

it's "thank you, sir, may I have more"

and yes, you can

@bmarvel @noblefurrtexas @holmantx The medical evidence is there in abundance.  Mnemonic Plague, Typhoid, Tuberculosis, and even Influenza are samples of what happens when patients are not isolated.  Even Measles is contagious.

Ever hear of Leper Colonies?  They were a form of quarantine.  

"Quarantine" is just a word to describe "imposed isolation".  But, that's what MUST be done with Ebola patients or even potential Ebola patients.  It is very much a pandemic disease, and is much more contagious than the fraud in the CDC admitted.  (He's a political hack, which is how he got the job.)  He was the one who told us Ebola only lives on surface for a few hours at most, and then they have to be perfect surfaces. 

Ebola can live on surfaces as many as 50-55 days.  That means it can be accidentally contracted without thought about risk.  Touching a handrail, and then touching your face or rubbing your eyes, or eating a cookie can transmit Ebola into your body, and you don't know you have it for several days. 

Ebola is so dangerous that it makes good sense to keep people with the disease OUT of the United States, or at least quarantine them immediately if they are coming from an active Ebola area. 

Many of the smarter doctors know that if Ebola gets out of hand, it could wipe out untold numbers of people; especially children and infants.  

We need a travel ban on places with Ebola running rampant.  And, we need mandatory isolation (or quarantine) on those who may have been exposed, and certainly on those who have it.

We don't have a vaccine yet that can inoculate you against Ebola. So, the best way to avoid getting it is not to be around people who have it or might have it, and environments in which they have recently been present.  

@bmarvel @noblefurrtexas @holmantx

Well, there is no conclusive medical evidence other than the historical record, and that is subject to statistical manipulation.  It's called doubt.

But let's take it one simple step further to clarify:

If we involuntarily quarantine and there are no further breakouts, professionals in the medical community cannot assume (causality) it was because of the quarantines.  This seems to be where you are right now.

If we do not involuntarily quarantine and additional cases pop up in the New York area, the public will assign blame and demand accountability.  This is reality.

What's a politician to do?  Is that what you are asking? In the end it is a political calculation, is it not? Particularly since Ebola has so riveted press attention, sucking all the oxygen out of the political atmosphere a week before the mid-terms?

They are doing exactly what you would expect them to do - lurch in and out of gear, and hope like hell they don't get blindsided by another case brought by people coming through their Ports of Entry before next Tuesday.

After that it doesn't matter, politically.

Of course, there is another reality.  The medical community asserts we are on the little end of this plague.  That the number of cases in Liberia alone will mushroom to 100,000.  And there are worse Ivory Tower prognostications - all couched in statistical analysis.

And, statistically, they will come to America for treatment - however they can get here.

So let me ask you - at what point would you, in the name of public safety, impose travel bans and involuntary quarantines even if they aren't totally effective?

Because at some point you are going to change your mind, if the progression of this disease moves beyond hysteria.  And by then, the inconvenience of 21 days in isolation might be a little silly.

But it's your call.

@holmantx 

feel free to prove me correct as many times as you want.

@noblefurrtexas @bmarvel @holmantx Mnemonic plague: a horrible tidal wave of kicks, ticks and other memory tricks.

@noblefurrtexas @bmarvel @holmantx Noble -- Your argument is based upon ignorance of medical science. Each disease has its own form of transmission. Each requires different measures. If the issue of quarantine is not based upon sound medical facts, the result will be either a public health disaster, on the one hand, or a gross and unnecessary violation of Constitutional rights on the other.

Please go to the trouble of informing yourself on the nature of Ebola. Consult more than  one source and stay away from political sources,which will invariably distort the science for narrow, partisan purposes.

The bottom line, Noble, is we have two casea of Ebola contracted here in the UNITED States, both by nurses who failed to observe the recommended protocols for treatment and contact with Ebola patients. I repeat: Two cases. Not dozens or hundreds. Not a plague. If your fears were based upon fact, where are the other cases, Noble?

@noblefurrtexas @bmarvel @holmantx

My point is that it is useless to argue with someone who makes the statement that quarantines and travel bans do not work, based upon the historical record.

When the President's experts and the CDC refuse to recognize that which normal Americans already know, then America must relearn the lesson.

This is what we get when we elect ideologues.

And it is horrifying even the most ardent of Liberals once they see it can directly affect them.

@mavdog @holmantx

Like the Black Knight of Monty Python fame, whose arms and legs having been cleaved from his body declares victory . . . 

spookily delusional.

Mansonesque 

@holmantx 

you are taking it a bit far comparing yourself to the Black Knight.

The Black Knight was much larger and taller than you are, right?

@mavdog @holmantx

you aren't any more