Men’s Rights Activists Intent on Proving They Are the Absolute Worst


Not content to stew in their own soup of misogynistic feminist-hating rage, men’s rights activists (MRAs) are trying to expand their ranks and draw unsuspecting people to their cause. And in order to get more attention for their woman-hating agenda, they are willing to game, manipulate, and infiltrate social justice movements.

For those not in the know, MRAs are the bottom-feeders of an online community that is already so virulently sexist that any woman who dares speak out in favor of feminism, equality, or social justice is immediately targeted for attacks, including rape threats on social media and offline terrorist threats of mass murder.

They are slack-jawed yokels who are so convinced that feminism is out to get them that they band together on message boards and other online forums, working themselves up into an unhealthy misogynistic lather.

They don’t view feminism for what it is in its most basic iteration—the desire for equality between the sexes. Oh no! They view feminism as a hate group populated by a bunch of hairy-legged misandrists who would like nothing more than to KILL ALL MEN and dance on their graves while wearing long flowing skirts and twirling around like Stevie Nicks.

They are a special breed of insecure degenerate assholes who believe that feminists are the devil and who blame women for all of their problems.

These grievances range from men’s comparatively high rates of suicide to prison rape to unfair treatment in family court. Many of their concerns are valid: Yes, prison rape is a problem; yes, fathers are sometimes treated unfairly in custody battles. Drawing attention to these issues is not unreasonable. Advocating for solutions to these problems is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable, however, is proclaiming that the cause of every single grievance is Women with a capital “W.”

But that is the attitude that pervades the so-called manosphere: Women, feminists in particular, are the root of all evil.

It’s not that women have been subjugated by men since the dawn of time, and feminism seeks a little balance in the order of things—to liberate women from the jackbooted thugs of patriarchy. No! It’s men, primarily white cishet men, who are the real victims. Their oppressors? Feminists, of course.

These thoroughly oppressed men loudly proclaim their victimhood from online cesspools like A Voice for Men—a website so chock-full of misogyny that you might want to douse your brain in Lysol before reading it—while, ironically, damning feminists for stereotyping all women as victims.

So hate-filled is A Voice for Men that the Southern Poverty Law Center flagged it as a website that spreads misogyny. According to SPLC,

A Voice for Men is essentially a mouthpiece for its editor, Paul Elam, who proposes to “expose misandry [hatred of men] on all levels in our culture.” Elam tosses down the gauntlet in his mission statement: “AVfM regards feminists, manginas [a derisive term for weak men], white knights [a similar derisive term, for males who identify as feminists] and other agents of misandry as a social malignancy. We do not consider them well-intentioned or honest agents for their purported goals and extend to them no more courtesy or consideration than we would clansmen [sic], skinheads, neo Nazis or other purveyors of hate.”

Lovely, isn’t it?

Not satisfied simply to create websites dedicated to the denigration and hatred of women, these vile reprobates of the manosphere, led by Paul Elam himself, have taken it a step further: They have co-opted the White Ribbon campaign, which works to end violence against women and girls.

And you thought MRAs couldn’t get any worse.

The White Ribbon Campaign, according to its website, is the “world’s largest movement of men and boys working to end violence against women and girls, promote gender equity, healthy relationships, and a new vision of masculinity.” The Campaign asks men “to wear white ribbons as a pledge to never commit, condone, or remain silent about violence against women and girls.”

The campaign was started by Canadian men in the wake of the 1989 massacre at École Polytechnique in Montreal, during which Marc Lépine walked into the school, proclaimed that he was fighting feminists, and murdered 14 women. The White Ribbon Campaign has since spread to over 60 countries around the world, most of them featuring websites associated with a particular country, such as whiteribbon.ca, whiteribbon.org.au, whiteribboncampaign.co.uk, and so on.

But presumably because Elam and his merry band of misogynist miscreants think the White Ribbon Campaign is run by a bunch of “manginas” and “white knights”—terms that MRAs use to describe men who don’t think that treating women like shit is the pathway to liberation—they decided to set up a fake White Ribbon website (whiteribbon.org) in order to divert money from the real White Ribbon Campaign and to promote bullshit anti-feminist propaganda.

Elam’s bastard website proclaims that it is a campaign to “end violence against everyone.” That doesn’t seem like such a bad idea, unless you know who Elam is and the vitriolic crap that he peddles.

As Jill Filipovic pointed out in an article for Cosmopolitan that you really should read, last year, Elam declared October to be “Bash a Violent Bitch Month”:

I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women—to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess.

Does that sound like the sort of fellow you want running a campaign aimed at ending violence against everyone? I didn’t think so.

Elam, of course, claimed that his diatribe was satire, but if you listen closely, you can hear Jonathan Swift arising from the dead to yell out a resounding, “Fuck you!” before returning to his permanent dirt nap.

To add insult to fuckery, Elam’s fake White Ribbon website is taking donations that will not be directed to any group dedicated to combating violence against men. Because why do anything to help people when you can simply line your own pockets?

Needless to say, the real White Ribbon campaign is not amused by Elam’s antics:

Today, White Ribbon (www.whiteribbon.ca) became aware that a “so-called” men’s rights group has launched a copycat campaign articulating their archaic views and denials about the realities of gender-based violence.

Their vile sentiments—which include disparaging comments about women’s shelters and victim blaming survivors of rape—are completely incongruent with our values at White Ribbon.

Their misguided attempts to discredit others only make clear the extent to which they see the success of our equality-driven, evidence-based, ally-focused work on gender justice as a real threat to their ill-informed, isolated views on this issue. This latest example is clear evidence of their insincerity and lack of commitment to developing compassionate solutions for the issues they claim to care about. It also showcases their real focus: attacking, harassing and directing anger towards others. …

Allies and supporters: Do not to be fooled by this copycat campaign. We are exploring all of our options, but we will not be engaging with this group in a public screaming match. They can remain a shrill minority. We will continue to engage with the vast majority of men who believe in gender justice, and want to be part of the solution.

Look, there is a way to talk about violence against men without shitting on efforts by men—like the White Ribbon Campaign—to end violence against women.

There’s a way to talk about violence against men without shitting on women who, despite claims to the contrary by MRA idiots, suffer from domestic violence at rates far exceeding men.

There’s even a way to criticized domestic violence advocacy’s gendered focus on women, and to push for more funding for men’s shelters, without manipulating facts and statistics in order to cast men as the victims of evil haters.

But the denizens of the manosphere don’t really care about combating violence against men or women. All they care about is telling women to shut the fuck up and know their place.

The bottom line is that MRAs hate women, and feminists in particular. And those that don’t, because I’m sure some MRA will show up in the comments section of this post complaining that I have made generalized statements about them, are useful idiots for the ones that do. And this latest stunt—diverting attention and money from an organization working to end violence against women while doing absolutely nothing to advocate for the end of violence against men—is proof of that.

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Follow Imani Gandy on twitter: @AngryBlackLady

  • Factory

    Wow, you pajamaboy weenies really are running scared aren’t you?

    • Arekushieru

      Nope. How is this running scared? Oops? Also, thank you for just proving her RIGHT.

  • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

    Ha, ha, ha, cough, MISANDRY!

    >80% homeless – Virtually 100% of workplace deaths – Do twice the prison time for the exact same crime and are twice as likely to be charged in the first place, accounting for the incarcerated gender disparity precisely. – In the west, down to around 35% of University attendance and falling fast. – No progenitive rights to speak of at all. – Rampant male baby genital mutilation, without anaesthetic! After which the perpetrators celebrate! In the West! – Wage gap fallacy debunked by all serious study yet still pushed by the highest in the lame stream.

    Ghandi? You embarrass yourself and shame your good name. You have clearly not even bothered to read the web sites and organisations you are attacking. Deep, deep shame on you.

    I challenge you to an open debate! “I dare you to name one way in which western governments benefit men over women. I double dare you.”

    • Faron Francis

      Despite the 35% university attendance, In Canada we still have “female-only” scholarships.

      • ansuz

        So find a place where there should be more men, and set up scholarships to help them get there. Connect yourself to a charitable institution or wealthy individual with a good reputation and submit a proposal to them.

      • Cyberwulf

        oh my god a whole 35% well surely that is a much higher number than 65%

        • fiona64

          I know, right? 35 percent of college students are women! The horror! They might get ideas, and get all uppity and stuff.

      • Arekushieru

        As ansuz says, this is the same in respect to quotas. They are only there to make sure that women get hired without discrimination.

      • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

        Great point Faron. It’s the same in the UK. We need engineers but women
        who don’t want to be, are given every incentive. They are offered the money
        many boys would give their right arm for and are still not interested.

        • Mademoiselle

          My cousins, one male and one female, are engineers. It’s a miserable line of work: boring, tedious, and my cousins have to travel to third-world hellholes for much of their work. I don’t care what it pays, I wouldn’t be an engineer.

        • expect_resistance

          Throwing money at a situation without understanding it doesn’t solve the problem.

      • fiona64

        Because trying to get more women to attend college is bad, in your mind?

        For *centuries* in this country (the US), women were NOT allowed to attend college. Then, they were limited to majors like teaching and nursing.

        Why does it gripe you that minorities (women, people of color, etc.) have scholarship set-asides? I really want to know.

    • Cyberwulf

      And stealing money from a campaign that combats violence against women is a far better use of your time than doing anything to investigate and combat the causes of homelessness, push for an end to male circumcision, and fund/enforce proper health and safety education and safe work practices.

      • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

        Men were happy to endorse women and equality without bickering about the reapportionment. Because they are that nice …rout meaning foolish. Perhaps this could also be a product of future benevolence.

        Bitching about the reality of actual equality is apoor show.

        The greater point is that men suffer far more from violence than women. At this point, we should have more money than you.

        • Cyberwulf

          Why are you tricking people out of it then? Why not start your own campaign? Possibly one that teaches young men not to solve their differences by beating the crap out of each other?

        • Arekushieru

          Using sexist gaslighting terms to make your point? Oh, yes, the misandry is just ‘SO’ obvious.

          No, men do not suffer far more from violence than women, and you have not and will not be able to prove that. Every time an MRA tries to, they’re proven wrong.

          You DO have more money than women. Women make far less on the dollar than men do, even in fairly equitable countries like Canada. SFS.

          And you’re comment about being nice, sounds like the Nice Guy TM fallacy. Oh, I’m a nice guy, but if you don’t agree with me I’m gonna kill all youse bitchessssss! In fact, that sounds like the founder of your movement.

          • expect_resistance

            Sexist gaslighting is a favorite tactic of the MRAs.

    • GreyLadyBast

      And there is no earthly reason you can’t address those issues, some you have a point on, others I’m sure you pulled from your own ass, WITHOUT advocating hatred and oppression of women? Because that’s what MRAs do— all hate against women, no solutions for men. Shame on you.

      • Whothehell Cares

        The only people I have ever met who truly hate women are feminists. They treat strong independent women like children in need of their ‘Feminism’.

        • Arekushieru

          And, by your definition, strong, independent women are those whom you can easily bully and use as doormats and stand up for your RIGHT to dominate ALL women. EVERYONE needs feminism. We support equal rights. MRAssholes support retaining the privileges they ALREADY have and getting even MORE at the expense of women’s RIGHTS. Those are the only people who truly hate women.

          • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

            Why can’t you imbeciles argue? Putting
            words in other peoples mouths isn’t a slam dunk. Go to ‘A Voice for Men’ and
            read the articles, research the UK, USA etc. government stats I mentioned. Wake
            up.

            Where in our western rape culture have you seen a TV show packed with men and an all
            male panel laughing about a husband chopping his wife’s tits off and shoving
            them in the garbage disposal for good measure? Yet women are doing this without serious repercussion

            on prime time. Laughing on prime time at the mutilation of a man. Are you laughing now? Men’s
            lives are ruined for less!

            Wake up or feminism will end up making men hate women.

          • expect_resistance

            What in the word salad are you ranting about?

          • P. McCoy

            I don’t want a dead toe nail let alone ‘friendship’ from a male who can’t like a feminist. Go back to watching the Duggar’s wedding!

          • Arekushieru

            I have read AVfM, nothing but more shrill women-hating.

            Citations needed for your other claim otherwise I’m tending (well more) towards this being some crude fantasy of yours you cooked up. SFS.

          • fiona64

            Go to ‘A Voice for Men’ and
            read the articles

            I have. And I completely agree with the SPLC that it’s the voice of a hate movement.

          • enhancedvibes

            F you- there are RAPE JOKES ALL OVER THE TV, INTERNET, MOVIES, ETC. as well as get back in the kitchen, make me a sammich, blahblahblah. Seriously go fuck yourself with this BS. So what, you’re upset because finally…FINALLY….women sometimes (note SOMETIMES) find humor in revenge against their abusers?!? Again, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

          • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

            Wow, you are so smart.

            Want to know about gynocentrism? Let me point out a few of the
            effects for you, men are (Western govt. stats, do your own research):

            4+ times more likely to suicide.

            Almost 100% of workplace deaths

            Over 80% of the homeless

            Do twice the prison time for the exact same crime and are twice as likely to be charged in the first place.

            Subject to ritual genital mutilation as barely born infants, without anaesthetic and they celebrate this!

            No progenitive rights to speak of at all!

            35% minority at Uni. and falling fast.

            All the above in our western Anglo-sphere! Patriarchy my crack! My mother, grandmothers, etc., were never in a hundred years small ends.

            I think apart from the undue fest of ticks, no one has yet answered my double dare. Gynocentrism in your face by your own silence. All of you.

            Someone wrote a great article recently “Feminists Escalate The Sex Wars. They Will Make Men Come To Hate Women”

            P.S. Since 2012 US govt. stats show more men raped than women.

          • Unicorn Farm

            So let’s pretend that all of the statistics you have quoted are true.
            Please prove that each of these statistics are the result of “gynocentricism.”
            Please also explain when society became gynocentric. Please explain why it became gynocentric.

        • expect_resistance

          That’s a total lie.

      • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

        I have been a father for justice (UK F4J) fighting to see my children since 2002. What the fuck planet are you on? I love women but have no time for defunct feminism. It’s finished, get over it and answer the challenge!

        • Cyberwulf

          Is this the same Fathers 4 Justice that mounted a harassment campaign against Caroline Nokes MP, which included driving by her house at night, encouraging members to send her dirty underwear, and spreading rumors that she wouldn’t let her ex see their kid, all because she didn’t give them exactly what they wanted? I totally believe you aren’t a gang of abusive men who just want access to your kids to get at your exes.

      • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

        Who is advocating violence, hatred and oppression?

        • expect_resistance

          MRAs. That’ who.

    • P. McCoy

      Hey, you want penile cancer and other diseases associated with uncircumcised junk, be my guest!

      • Cyberwulf

        Okay, the link between circumcision and stis/penile cancer is very tenuous, and the practice began in the US because it was believed that it prevented masturbation.

        • P. McCoy

          Based on what I heard an urologist say, better the cut then losing the whole burrito. My heterosexually active female friends say uncircumcised junk is physically ugly and that smegna stinks- I am happy being celibate anyway. Not MY problem; I have NO penis envy whatsoever!

          • Unicorn Farm

            “My heterosexually active female friends say uncircumcised junk is physically ugly and that smegna stinks”
            Hey now. MRAs suck but no need to rag on different body types. I’m a heterosexually active woman who happens to think uncircumcised penises are just fine. They look perfectly normal and I’ve never been near one that stinks. As long as someone is using proper hygiene, there shouldn’t be any smegma or smell. Same goes for cut guys.

          • P. McCoy

            I realize that many women share your point of view, however , I stand by mine and would circumcisize my own infant son, if I had one, based on what I have heard stated by urologists as well as my own aethestics.

          • Unicorn Farm

            I mean, you’re entitled to that opinion, but I just chafe at body shaming like in your first post. How would you feel if someone said that vulvas were hideous and stinky? I know if I were an uncut guy I’d hate to read a post like that.

          • P. McCoy

            Each to her own I guess.

          • night porter

            Agreed. And with circumcision, there is also this idea that it’s necessary because boys are too incompetent to clean their own pee pees. I disagree.

          • ansuz

            Yeah, I suspect that if penis-havers were taught how to keep things clean from a young age and if condoms were easier for uncut people to use, the health benefits of circumcision would pretty much disappear.
            As it stands, there’s enough evidence of benefit that I can’t condemn the practice as wholeheartedly as I’d like to, but I’ll sign on to any efforts to increase sexual health among uncircumcised penis-havers.

          • night porter

            “Penis havers”

            Good point. I have erased them, and tend to speak of “uterus owners” only, probably because of the whole abortion thing.

            But it works both ways.

          • Unicorn Farm

            Right. It’s just not that hard to keep clean. Want smegma? I used to work at a barn. Ever clean a gelding’s sheath? That’s some serious bulk-quantity smegma for you.
            Regardless, I don’t really give a crap what anyone’s sexual or “aesthetic” preferences are re; dicks, but I just think that the original body-shaming comment was out of line.

          • Cyberwulf

            Circumcision is not the norm in Europe and guys’ dicks aren’t falling off. As for smegma, there’s this thing called “personal hygiene” that American men could try.

          • P. McCoy

            My opinions are stated here; I stand by ALL of them, including the studies that prove that uncircumcised men were more of a vector of spreading the HIV virus via foreskin/ unsanitary penis than circumcisized.

            We agree to disagree and women that want to deal with in the views of many visually appalling, amelly junk, then more power to them- I am not interested!

            At the last, I stand by urologists who advocate infant male circumcision.

      • Mademoiselle

        The odds of getting penile cancer are astoundingly low. It’s not a good reason to chop off a baby boy’s foreskin. I witnessed a circumcision once, it was horrible. The baby was in agony, even though numbing cream had been applied. There’s no way the cream worked.

        • night porter

          I find it rather curious that anti-choicers who go on and on and on about fetail pain are not at all concerned about the pain caused to babies from circumcision, or the 100 boys that die per year from the practise.

          • fiona64

            They’re only pro-*fetal* life. What happens after there are actual *children* is a matter of supreme indifference to the anti-choice.

    • tooDoeD

      Why is this so hard for you mra’s to understand? Every one of those gender double standards is part of and enforced by patriarchy.

      It is patriarchy, not feminism, that tells men they are less of a man for getting beat or abused by a woman, or for not going to war, or for being raped, or for reporting sexual harassment. Patriarchy tells men they are wimpy if they need to talk about their problems leading to more male suicide. Patriarchy won’t hire women to work those more dangerous jobs where men get killed. Patriarchy tells men that women are better caregivers leading to more custody of children for women. Patriarchy assumes women are less violent leading to more male incarceration.

      • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

        Bullshit. The matriarchy runs UK schools, social services, cafcass etc., etc., etc..

        I do agree that white knights and manginas are a big part of the problem and I can understand their attitude being conflated with patriarchy, but given all prevailing data and who actually has the power and preferential treatment, it’s clear that the ‘patriarchy’ is a myth.

        Women choose our representatives, hold the purse strings and the pussy pass. This is ubiquitous gynocentrism.

        • fiona64

          Oh, now I understand. You’re pissed off that you can’t get laid.

          • expect_resistance

            Bingo!

          • fiona64

            The “pussy pass” phrase made everything fall into very clear focus for me.

    • expect_resistance

      The
      bottom line is that MRAs hate women, and feminists in particular.

  • LF

    We don’t hate women, we hate ignorance.

    For example, men have the right to not be covered by DV protection laws specifically, even though the CDCs research shows women are marginally (51%) the aggressors more than men.

    We get told by everybody that we do less work in the family unit, when the only thing being tracked is house/child work. Men get no credit for the work they do to keep the family going. Thankfully, unbiased research by pew research is counting every hour of work and not just house work and finding the hours spend working across the board almost equal.

    We have to subsidize healthcare for all women. Insurance is risk based, women spend 2/3 of every healthcare dollar so they should have to pay more for insurance… Except they don’t have to because it was legislated that they don’t…

    We have the right to still pay child support to the child conceived when the man/boy was the victim of rape and they reach majority.

    We are stuck paying for children that are not our biological children if we didn’t contest the in-wedlock birth in a specified time frame.

    We have the right to die from prostate cancer as much as women die from breast cancer but the government whose job is to keep things fair provides much more funding for breast cancer research.

    We have the right to not own most of this country’s luxury goods yet we make up most of the income in the country.

    The post below talks about family court, criminal court bias.

    The author should probably do some research before making unsubstantiated claims…

    • Cyberwulf

      Men get no credit for the work they do to keep the family going.

      Maybe that’s because adults are supposed to work for their money?

      We have the right to die from prostate cancer as much as women die from
      breast cancer but the government whose job is to keep things fair
      provides much more funding for breast cancer research.

      Start a charity?

      We have the right to not own most of this country’s luxury goods yet we make up most of the income in the country.

      What, you think women are hoarding all the luxury goods or something?

      • Bewildered

        Start a charity?
        Uh-oh ! where’s your ‘ equality’ now ?
        Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Just saying !
        Oh ! btw feminists are very famous for fighting for everyone’s rights and caring for everyone’s needs.

    • GreyLadyBast

      But of course there’s every reason you can’t address those issues, some you have a point on, others you pulled from your own ass, WITHOUT advocating violence and oppression against women, right? Because that’s what MRAs truly are— all hate against women, no actual solutions for men.

      • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

        Who is advocating violence against women? …And who is talking out of their own ass?

      • I-C-E-D

        You really don’t know what MRAs are about, do you. Your comments absolutely disgust me.

        Equating MRAs as extremists due to the shrill voices of some women-haters is like equating feminism to misandry due to the shrill voices of some extremists. It’s wrong, and it’s dumb.

        • Arekushieru

          Uh, the topic to which you are responding is pretty typical of MRAs. SFS.

          • Bewildered

            The reactions here are pretty typical of the feminists.

        • fiona64

          Why is it always “those ‘extremists’ don’t belong to us”?

          Especially since “those extremists” represent the majority of your movement?

          • newsjunkie365

            Including the leaders.

          • I-C-E-D

            You could take a couple of extremists and say the same about feminism, but then you’d remember that most feminists aren’t extremists and don’t truly represent what feminism is about, and that’s why it’s always “those extremists” don’t belong to the MRA movement either.

            The majority of the movement is not comprised of extremists. It is comprised of people (read: men and women) who realize that feminism is focused on women because there are so many issues that affect women and need to be addressed, and men, while facing significantly less issues, face issues nevertheless that feminism doesn’t have time to discuss. but need to be discussed nevertheless.

          • fiona64

            that’s why it’s always “those extremists” don’t belong to the MRA movement either.

            And you don’t distance yourself from “those extremists” why again?

          • I-C-E-D

            Why are you so bent on equating the MRA movement with extremists? It’s the same logic misogynists use to try and turn people off from feminism.

            No one can stop extremists from labeling themselves whatever they want to be labeled. Misandrists can call themselves feminists, but that doesn’t mean that they actually believe in the feminist movement and goal of equality. Likewise, misogynists can label themselves MRAs. That doesn’t mean they are.

            In the same manner, the MRA movement is something born of the feminist movement that helped point out that men, too, face issues. Domestic violence affects both men and women, as an example:

            http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

            While women face it more, men face it as well, and it’s a lot more ok for a woman to hit a man than a man hit a woman, when in reality it shouldn’t be ok either way.

            It’s things like this the MRA movement is about. I’m not sure why you keep trying to equate MRAs with a form of extremism. If you’re stuck believing that all MRAs are inherently extremists, then we have nothing further to discuss.

          • fiona64

            Being a MRA is about focusing on men’s rights with the eventual goal being gender equality,

            The part that you seem to be deliberately missing is that men are at the top of the freaking privilege ladder … which was basically created by men.

            How you can argue that this is about “equality” when what it is quite obviously really about is “fear of losing hegemony”? I am not being deliberately obtuse here; I really don’t get it.

            I am well aware of DV issues; I am a survivor. I am not saying that men do not experience it. However, if you read the words of the majority of your fellow travelers, you will see that it is NOT, in fact, about issues like more DV beds for male victims (which I concur are much needed) but all about “I don’t get all the stuff I believe I’m owed because bitches.” You know, sort of like Elliot Rodger.

            Edited to add: the majority of male DV victims are abused by other men. Not by women. Just sayin’.

            Are you speaking out to those people? I’m curious.

          • I-C-E-D

            It’s not as simple as “men are at the top of the freaking privilege ladder”. Just because men initially created it doesn’t mean that all men benefitted from what the ones in power created. The most obvious example would be gay men and their oppression and persecution for almost all of history.

            I’m speaking out to anyone who thinks that we have reached gender equality, because we haven’t. While feminism does a great job raising awareness for women’s rights, MRA was started to address men’s rights, often for situations that feminism first pointed out men and women weren’t equal but focused on the women’s side of the situation because feminism is women’s rights-oriented.

            The people you describe in your last paragraph, as well as the statement you make about MRA being about fear of losing hegemony is where we differ. Men in fear of losing hegemony are not activists of any sort; they are oppressors who are trying to keep an old-fashioned status quo in a modern and changing world. True MRAs are people who are actively trying to incite change in the way men are perceived and dealt with when it comes to certain issues such as domestic violence.

            Being an MRA is about addressing men’s rights where we feel they are lacking, not about trying to oppress women from gaining rights. Being for men’s rights does not mean you have to be against women’s rights, and honestly, most MRAs I know are also active supporters of feminism.

          • fiona64

            Being for men’s rights does not mean you have to be against women’s
            rights, and honestly, most MRAs I know are also active supporters of
            feminism.

            So, I ask again … are you speaking out against your fellow traveler (for example, the ones posting here) about their behavior? You know, the behavior that belies your words? Because I’m just not seeing that happening.

          • I-C-E-D

            I’m speaking out against those who are using MRA as a cover for their misogyny and against those who are spreading the belief that MRA has to do with hating women and attempting to oppress them.

          • fiona64

            against those who are spreading the belief that MRA has to do with hating women and attempting to oppress them.

            Because, you know, the majority of evidence tells us that MRAs are all “nice guys”? Really?

            I think you need to read some more posts from Elam’s crowd of flying monkeys on this latest invasion and then come back to talk to some more.

            I’m about at the point of telling you to pull the other one, as it’s got bells on.

          • I-C-E-D

            What I’m saying is Elam and his flying monkeys are a vocal minority of women-hating assholes.

            Fixating on one group of posers does not do a movement justice.

          • fiona64

            Thank you for your response. I really do appreciate it.

          • I-C-E-D

            No problem. You’ve obviously had bad experiences with MRAs and that definitely shouldn’t be the norm when interacting with this movement, and I’m glad I could remedy that a little bit through civil discussion.

          • fiona64

            It’s not a past-tense “had” experience; it’s a present tense “having” experience.

            I’ll look forward to seeing you take down Elam’s flying monkeys on this post. Walking the walk and all that, you know …

          • I-C-E-D

            Both you and I have better things to do than to respond to people with inflexible points of view. If I’d seen an opportunity for rational discussion like we had, I’d definitely engaged on it by now.

          • fiona64

            Sadly, I’m not even surprised. You’ll call me out for saying stuff about MRAs and their observable misogyny, but you won’t call them out for it yourself — despite your claims that you do just that. After all, you did say I’m speaking out against those who are using MRA as a cover for their misogyny.

            Like I said, you may be the one beacon of “not a jerk” in the whole movement. Thus, I am disappointed … but, as I said, not surprised. Walking the walk is, after all, much harder than talking the talk.

          • I-C-E-D

            It’s not that simple. You may have an excess amount of time to waste with people who have a 0 percent chance of changing their point of view, but I don’t.

            I engaged in conversation with you because there was a chance that you would see MRAs in a separate light, and you managed to change your perception slightly and hear about MRAs.

            The people you wish to engage with are a waste of time. I’m not going to waste mine, and I recommend you don’t waste yours either.

            At the end, it’s your choice. I’ll continue to promote men’s rights and women’s rights where it will have the maximum impact, and not with extremists with inflexible points of view.

          • fiona64

            Thank you for your ongoing civility. I will say this: you are the *sole* MRA I have experienced who behaves in that fashion.

          • Bewildered

            Charity begins at home you know !

        • GreyLadyBast

          I know exactly what MRAs are, as I’ve been to those wretched hives of scum and villainy, and been sickened by their raging misogyny and utter lack of interest in actually solvong the men’s problems they claim to be invested in. Look in the mirror before you go flinging your disgust around, as your overreaction and disinterest in answering my point in favor of hatred and name-calling disgust me. Have a nice day.

          • I-C-E-D

            Sorry, I forgot that if I’m not part of the circlejerk that I’m somehow a misogynist. Both sides have extremists, and it’s really saddening to see how feminists view MRAs when a vocal minority are the ones who act against equality, especially considering that real MRAs respect feminism and feminists in their goals and endeavors. True MRAs are trying to address issues that feminism doesn’t, because let’s be real, feminism, with the noble goal of equality, can’t possibly address all issues that make men and women unequal as there are tons of different issues preventing this, with a hugely disproportionate amount of those issues negatively affecting women, and so they focus on women-related issues.

            The MRA movement and feminism are largely complementary. Feminism focuses on issues that affect women, MRA focuses on issues that affect men.

            I answered your point, which was:

            Because that’s what MRAs truly are— all hate against women, no actual solutions for men.

            If that’s what you actually believe MRAs are about, then good day. We have nothing further to say to each other.

          • fiona64

            True MRAs

            While I get that you may be the one beacon of “not a jerk” in the entire MRA movement (based on my observation, anyway), the No True Scotsman fallacy is not helpful.

          • I-C-E-D

            Unfortunately not, but it’s the truth.

          • Bewildered

            Hey ! the same thing could apply to you too !
            In someone else’s ” lived experiences” you could be that great exception that makes people want to hug you[but from the tone your posts made from your 'safe space' there could be legitimate doubts!],but this does not necessarily reflect well on the feminist movement as a whole from that person’s perceptions See what I did there ?
            Real progress can be made if people stopped indulging in victim Olympics and playing disingenuous blame games.
            Getting rid of the gendered lens to view life would be a good start . After all everyone is for this blessed thing called “EQUALITY” ,right?

          • Bewildered

            Feminists are perfect,infallible,……………,anyone who critiques them is perforce a misogynist,rape apologist,rape enabler,homophobe, islamophobe{???????} etc
            Guess who else talks like that ?
            Everyone is bothered about misogynists but very few people talk about misandrists,in fact we are told that they don’t exist ,which implies that all women are the ultimate in perfection ! Really ?
            In any case a sane appraisal would show that,true as opposed to imagined and deemed misogynists/misandrists are very small in number.
            What’s worrying and amazing though is that people have their own pet brand of holy cows and are completely oblivious of the fact because it’s so ingrained in them, but yet lay claims to be ‘critical thinkers’,’progressives’,’liberals’ etc.

          • enhancedvibes

            Those men dont call themselves MRAs. Ya know, the ones doing real work, like at the good men project etc. I think thats where your confusion is. They dont call themselves that because this hateful wing of the MRM has co-opted that term.

        • enhancedvibes

          Pssst, they’re on the internet. WE CAN READ THEIR WORDS!

    • Arekushieru

      Um, if you want to gain custody of children SEEK custody more often. Women get custody more often simply because they are the ones to SEEK it. That’s a real no-brainer. Women have to provide FAR more financial and material resources as a custodial then MEN do as the non-custodial parent. Quite frankly, THEY are the ones who should be complaining, and THEY are the ones who DESERVE the right to complain. Women ALSO have to pay child support to men if they are the non-custodial and their former partners are the custodial parents, respectively. FINALLY, women being awarded custody more often is an example of misogyny NOT misandry. SFS.

      • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

        Slim pickings to cheer for today I see. What planet is this to which you are referring? Not the UK, USA, Canada, Australia or anywhere in Europe.

        • Arekushieru

          Uh, yeah, so, tell me, how many men have received custody of their children? It’s either very few or almost all of them. Either way, you are proven to be a liar. It costs WAY more to actually RAISE a child than it does to provide child support, that’s just common sense, after all (oh, yeeeaaaaahhh… you guys aren’t too big on that are you?) OR they do receive custody the majority of the time so there isn’t any issue OR you don’t want to admit that the costs of raising a child ARE more than the costs of providing child support.

          If I’m wrong about women also having to pay child support, you would have been able to find some handy citations to back you up. You have yet to do that.

    • fiona64

      For example, men have the right to not be covered by DV protection laws specifically,

      Citation needed.

      We have to subsidize healthcare for all women

      Looks like someone doesn’t understand how insurance works.

      We have the right to not own most of this country’s luxury goods yet we make up most of the income in the country.

      Are you arguing that you are owed “luxury goods” somehow? Thanks for admitting that the wage gap is real, though.

      • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

        I wonder if LF is related to Lance Harvell by chance?

      • LF

        Citation: Have any man call any publicly funded DV shelter in your area. Then post your results.

        I do understand insurance utilization quite well. Would you like to discuss the risk algorithms specifically?

        The wage gap? Really? Why don’t you compare unmarried women who don’t have children’s wages to their male counterparts then let us discuss the wage gap…

        • fiona64

          Pro-tip: Nothing you posted is a citation.

  • fiona64

    Just when I thought the MRAssholes couldn’t possibly stoop any lower, they manage to exceed my expectations …

    • Whothehell Cares

      What’s lower than an MRAsshole.? :Answer = A feminist cankle.
      That’s two feet below a c..t.

      • Arekushieru

        Thanks for proving that you are just misogynists looking for a way to whine, whine, WHINE about the loss of your PRIVILEGES.

        • Csibi Attila

          MRA’s are no worse than feminists. IMO

          just as vicious, just as unattractive just as socially inept.

          • JamieHaman

            You’re entitled to your own opinion. Not your own facts.

          • expect_resistance

            Paul Elam.

        • fools2234

          Men face far more issue than women you bitter hag:

          http://www.cultural-misandry.com/mens-rights/

          Soo much “privilege” tho. So much privilege. Keep crying about the “wage gap” girls

          • Jennifer Starr

            Want some cheese to go with your whine?

    • Guest
  • Becca Stareyes

    Also note that Elam’s website doesn’t guarantee any of the funding goes to any sort of violence prevention program. I assume the original WRC as an official Canadian charity has checks on it to make sure that the public can find out which programs it funded. And is pretty clear about what it does.

    I know if I wanted to stop violence against anyone, I’d want some idea how my donation would do that. Also, I’d pick a name that couldn’t be confused with another charity in hopes of sponging off their donations. And then claim they are the fake on my website.

    Basically, Elam makes it look like his real goal is to tear others down and take their money, rather than, say, address the needs of battered men who don’t have a shelter, or stop prison rape, or encourage father-friendly workplace policies. You know, actions to help men.

    • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

      “AVfM – A Voice for Men” by it’s very existence it actively giving sanctuary and saving lives. As dose UK F4J and all the active MHR sites. In the same way as many women and children’s advocacy sites do. Bearing in mind that men suffer the most by far statistically, surely we should have more than the nothing we have right now to represent us. And surely some of what you are saying is then classic misandry tearing down the little that we have. Bravo.

      I’ve been trying every avenue and a pile more you forgot to mention since 2002, writing to my MPs, marching, campaigning. Certainly here in the UK feminism and gynocentrism is entrenched in education and government and the lame stream media and it’s children and men who are ridden rough shod over.

      • Becca Stareyes

        Wow, it must be really different in the UK. Here in the US, men dominate both houses of Congress, the executive branch, the Supreme Court, and major news organizations and corporations, and even attempts to promote equality, like making sure pay scales aren’t sexist, are seen as a gynocratic takeover.

        • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

          Who voted for them? Women, who
          constitute a majority of the electorate. Blame them.

          Just because women don’t want to run for government, that’s not men’s fault. In
          the UK we have had queens for ever and women MPs since the beginning of the last century,
          prime minister etc. forever.

          As far back as chivalry and beyond, the society has been and continues to be
          gynocentric. Women and kids first, very old fashioned. Just like America.

          Even the so called first wave feminists Pankhurst et al, sat at home in their
          comfy garden and issued white feathers to shame the poor men to go of to wars
          and die.

          Yes Feminism has always been a cultural Marxist joke.

          Wow, none of you can answer the challenge! As if I didn’t know it would be so.
          Blah, blah regurgitated nonsense, hate, misandry. It’s not a good look.

          • Becca Stareyes

            Tell me more about how a society where I legally couldn’t have owned property or vote was gynocratic!

          • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

            OK. At the same time if a wife comitted a crime the husband was culpable and the man had the responsibility to feed, clothe pay all bills for the wife even if she ran of with another guy. This is documented common knowledge and the way men are still treated today in india and Iran is shown to be gynocentric.

            http://stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/the-myth-of-patriarchal-oppression-in.html

            http://stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/indentured-servitude-for-men-in-iran.html

            http://stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/misandry-timeline-of-gynocentric-culture.html

          • P. McCoy

            Sure was ‘gynocentric’ of Iran executing a woman last weekend because she had the temerity to kill her rapist during the attack. Because deceased rapist’s family claimed she had planned the murder before the attack. You bottom feeders wish that were the law here don’t you? Sexist birds of a feather roll around in the same cage liners!

          • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

            Dear P., What’s gynocentric is the first lady of democratic first world USA getting bothered at last because some girls were kidnapped, when boys and men are being and have been burnt alive etc. but importantly slaughtered, killed, dead for many years. Normal is that girls are allowed to go free and the men are slaughtered by local groups like Boko Haram!

            Recently, again hundreds more were slaughtered ‘MEN’ and one brave grandmother trying to protect a child. Thousands of men slaughtered for years by Boko Haram, get it? No one cares when men are and continue to be slaughtered! You probably aren’t even aware of these facts! Just collect all your brain rinsed groovy ticks, don’t bother to open your eyes, bigots!

            Here’s my word for the day Misandrists, as in gaggle of!

            Want to know about gynocentrism? Let me point out a few of the effects for you, men are (Western govt. stats, do your own research):

            4+ times more likely to suicide.

            Almost 100% of workplace deaths

            Over 80% of the homeless

            Do twice the prison time for the exact same crime and are twice as likely to be charged in the first place.

            Subject to ritual genital mutilation as barely born infants, without anaesthetic and they celebrate this!

            No progenitive rights to speak of at all!

            35% minority at Uni. and falling fast.

            All the above in our western Anglo-sphere, no need to reach for the third world.

            Patriarchy my crack! My mother, grandmothers, etc., were never in a hundred years small ends.

            I think apart from the undue fest of ticks, no one has yet answered my double dare. Gynocentrism in your face by your own silence. All of you. …Thick as shit, Willie Lynch-ed.

            Someone wrote a great article recently “Feminists Escalate The Sex Wars. They Will Make Men Come To Hate Women”

            Keep it up all, encore!

          • fiona64

            In
            the UK we have had queens for ever

            Actually, you have had three who were not queen consorts … Elizabeth I, Victoria, and Elizabeth II. And I think we all know that, given parliament, they are not really the “rulers” even so.

            Let’s be intellectually honest, shall we?

            society has been and continues to be
            gynocentric.

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

            That’s right, because coverture law, for example, was so positive for women.

            What a joke.

          • marcetienne

            Those queens had tremendous power and controlled half the world for long periods of time. But that’s not even the point. Men in power discriminate against men in many areas like military conscription, child custody, criminal sentencing, domestic violence policies, while men make the vast majority of homeless, job deaths, incarceration, dropouts, and suicide deaths, and have higher mortality rates than women for almost all leading causes of death. But the men, and women, in government go on ignoring men’s issues at the expense of men. The “patriarchy” mostlyh protects women at the expense of men. Both “patriarchy” and feminist promote male disposability, just in different ways.

          • fiona64

            The “patriarchy” mostlyh protects women at the expense of men.

            Citation needed. Thanks in advance.

          • marcetienne

            Where are your citations, fiona?

            As for mine, ok here you go.

            The National Organization for Women fights against joint custody. http://www.nownys.org/archives/leg_memos/oppose_a00330.html

            Article 11 of the Forced Labour Convention of 1930, written by men, excludes “abled bodied males ages 18-45″ from the ban on slavery.

            The Selective Servcice Act, written mostly by men, forces only men into combat.

            The Violence Against Women Act, written by feminists, explicitly excludes Native American men and implicintly excludes all men by its very title and implementation.

            California Health & Safety Code Section 124250 and it’s legislative history, where before 2008 it excluded male victims of domestic violence from services until I sued on behalf of battered men and got it changed. That was written by feminists.

            Patricia Overberg, a domestic violence shelter director in Los Angeles, was abused by feminists for years just because she converted one of the 11 DV shelters into a battered men’s shelters. Her declaration:
            http://ncfm.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/021101-NCFM-ltr-from-Patricia-Overberg.pdf

            Feminists did the same to Erin Pizzy in England, who founded the world’s first modern battered women’s shelter, when she dared to say women are batterers too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzeys

            In Germany, the law denied unmarried fathers any custody rights absent moms’ consent, and it took MRAs to get the EU Human Rights Court to change that. http://www.dw.de/germanys-highest-court-strengthens-unmarried-fathers-rights/a-5862670

            The list is endless. Feminists even tried to create a “man tax” in Sweden.
            http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/g/gay/2004/gay100804.htm

          • fiona64

            You know, you were doing fine until I got to “Men’s News Daily.” Then, I’m afraid I just started laughing.

          • enhancedvibes

            They fight against PRESUMPTIVE joint custody, not merely joint custody. No need to be intellectually dishonest. Presumptive joint custody will never happen, it’s just another way the entire MRM does not understand the law or American culture for that matter or even real custody stats.

          • enhancedvibes

            Because those aren’t issues to be addressed by law. They are a result of our culture. The MRM is ineffectual because they don’t understand the role of govt, or how govt works, or the constitution for that matter. They don’t believe in the existence of patriarchy but ALL of their issues are a direct result of patriarchy. Cultural change about how we think about men and women is needed for these issues to ever be addressed. The groups holding back cultural change are men themselves, and political and religious conservatives. Once society cares less about pushing their friends and neighbors into the “act like a man” and “act like a woman” box the sooner men (and women, though they have been doing this since second wave feminism) will cast off their shackles of conformity and hopefully know more happiness.

        • marcetienne

          And those men discriminate against men in child custody, criminal sentencing, domestic violence policies. And meanwhile men also dominate in homeless, job deaths, incarceration, dropouts, and suicide deaths, and have higher mortality rates than women for almost all leading causes of death. But the men, and women, in government go on ignoring men’s issues at the expense of men.

          • enhancedvibes

            What do you expect govt to do? You do realize that women’s health issues are not studied at the expense of men’s so…what do you think your point is? What do you perceive the role of govt in addressing these issues? What should govt be doing to address these issues? I’ll await your response cause I guarantee I have a response to all of your “solutions.”

    • newsjunkie365

      Elam seems to have built himself a sweet little scam. All money donated through his website and this new fake charity site go directly to him. There is zero transparency regarding expenses to run the site and how much he personally pockets. So basically he riles up these angry lonely men, convinces them to give him their money, and then fails to use that money for anything that actually helps their legitimate issues.

      • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

        And what’s worse, the FBI can’t touch him because he is Australian. I don’t know about ICE.

        • Bewildered

          FYI he’s American. Only feminists have the privilege to lie with impunity I suppose.

  • Csibi Attila

    so much buthurt.

    • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

      True, the USA was the first country to report more male than female rape in 2012.

      • Cyberwulf

        Does that include prison rape? Because that might be something MRAs should tackle, instead of setting up phoney charities because men should have more money.

        • Becca Stareyes

          If it’s the statistic I’ve seen it compares the rates of all unwanted sexual contact (which has a broader definition than rape, legally) self-reported by all prisoners to the rates of rape reported to the police by women. So, it’s a bit like comparing eggs to eggplant.

        • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

          It’s true. The USA, ‘land of the free’ constitutes about 5% of the world’s population but 25% of the worlds prison population, a majority of whom are men.

          Land of the free goes well with land of rape culture, both statements contradict beautifully, as in, there is a rape culture a lack of real freedom both of which are predominantly focused on men. Women are less raped and less incarcerated.

          Of course we are working on that. Why do you think we are making you aware of it. It didn’t start yesterday.

          Like Boko Haram, who have been killing boys and have done so since kidnaping a few girls too. But let’s save the kidnapped girls, screw the boys who continue to die every day.

          Who’s that guy, Obama the Nobel prize winning baby bomber, he’s a feminist, his wife goes on about the Boko girls, never mentions the thousands of butchered boys for years. And you guys lap it up and take it as gospel.

          Feminism in action, in plain sight, today. Only the out of date and ill
          informed still dare to call themselves feminist.

      • expect_resistance

        Male on male rape? Or female on male rape? Any citations?

        • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

          US govt. stats. Good point, it is largely due to the fact that the USA has 5% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s prison population. So yes largely male on male. Also there are problems with especially feminist stats as they normal never even query male rape, as if it does not happen and overstate the negative.

          Many papers on AVfM with citations/links.

  • Ohone

    So, not lying about DV and child abuse so as to cover up female perpetration, is misogny. Got it..

    • Arekushieru

      So, lying about DV and child abuse rates so as to make female abuse on men look worse than it actually is, is misogyny. You may thank me for fixing that now. And you’re welcome.

      • Ohone

        They aren’t lying about it to male it look worse than it is.

        They are just repeating what the family violence research community has to say about it.

  • Toysoldier

    Just so we are clear, AVfM created their version of the campaign to help abused men. So far the feminist response has been to attack them for taking about male victims and deny men can be abused.

    As a male victim of abuse, I find this train of thought sexist and bigoted. Therefore, from this point on, every time I see a feminist write an article blasting people for advocating for male victims I will assume said feminist supports physical and sexual violence against men and boys, starting with Gandy.

    • Whirlwitch

      AVfM created their version of the campaign to help abused men.

      So what’s the Canadian registration number of this charity? Where can I see the breakdown on how the money is being spent? How does this charity rate on Charity Intelligence Canada?

      Contributions to AVFM go directly into Elam’s pockets, and he’s admitted as much, but this time it really is legit, right?

      • Toysoldier

        I am not affiliated with AVfM, so I cannot answer your questions. To my knowledge, they have not received a great deal of money and have yet to spend anything, so I doubt they could give you a breakdown of how the money is spent.

        As for charity, the first White Ribbon Campaign completely ignores male victims and female perpetrators altogether, instead focusing on teaching boys not to be abusers, despite that many of the boys are victims of violence themselves.

        If I had to choose between campaigns, I would go with the one seeking to help everyone, not the one telling abused boys they are potential murderers because they are male.

        • ansuz

          The White Ribbon Campaign was started in response to a specific incident of a man committing violence against women (Marc Lépine, Montreal). It makes perfect sense for the organization to have a specific focus and to disregard issues outside of that sphere. I mean, sure, they don’t talk much about male victims of violence, but they also don’t talk about human rights violations in North Korea. I’ve yet to see any evidence that anything the White Ribbon Campaign says is actually harmful.

          If I had to choose between campaigns, I would go with the one seeking to help people, rather than the one attempting to undermine that help.

    • Cyberwulf

      Why didn’t they give it a different name then?

      • Toysoldier

        That is a valid question. I assume that is because Elam wanted to bank off the name, which is an admittedly dickish move. That is one of the reasons I do not think highly of Elam, although I do agree his stated intention with this campaign.

        • Unicorn Farm

          ” I assume that is because Elam wanted to bank off the name, which is an admittedly dickish move”

          Right. In the legal profession we call activity like that “trademark infringement”.

          “from this point on, every time I see a feminist write an article blasting people for advocating for male victims I will assume said feminist supports physical and sexual violence against men and boys, starting with Gandy.”
          Don’t be an idiot. She’s not bashing Elam for *advocating* against violence against men and boys, because frankly that’s not what he’s doing. Even if Elam is, in good faith, advocating for me and boys, which I don’t believe he is, Gandy is still justified in bashing the *manner* in which he is doing it. You don’t get carte blanche to “advocate” in any manner you choose without criticism.

        • newsjunkie365

          You realize all the donations to the site go directly to Elam, right?

    • newsjunkie365

      If that were true, they would have set up their own charity with a different name and the donations would actually go to abused men. What they’re doing is disgusting.

  • nemo

    Ha ha.
    You forgot to precise that if you disagree with feminists concepts like “patriarchy” or “rape culture” , you are a MRA.
    You forgot to say that a men complaining about being a victim must be an MRA because feminists paradigm says that no man is a victim.
    You forgot to say that men are “afraid to loose their privileges”

    I am for equality , therefore i do not believe in such things. Does it make me a real feminist ?

    • Arekushieru

      Nope, because you are claiming something that women are NOT doing. Oops, so typical of an MRA. To make themselves look better they HAVE to put down feminism. Oops.

      • nemo

        Never talked about women but feminists…

        I’m not an MRA either.
        Typical whinny irrational feminists :

        If you don’t agree you are an MRA… Just as i said…oops.

        Seriously,Grow up .

  • marcetienne

    I’ve been a men’s rights activist for over 15 years. I have never hated women. I work with lots of women in the men’s rights movement, which is about equal rights in areas like child custody, domestic violence services, criminal sentencing, public benefits, military conscription, etc. Calling us false and silly names like woman haters is just ignorance at best, or else just a way to avoid a balanced dialogue on gender. Thankfully the movement is groing all over the world as fathers and male victims of domestic violence are realizing how they are systematically discriminated against. In California we had to sue the state on behalf of battered men to overturn the unconstitutioal law, written by feminists, that excluded male victims of domestic violence from state funded services. http://www.metnews.com/articles/2008/wood101508.htm

    MRAs have finally gotten international human rights courts to start addressing discrimination against fathers. Men still make the vast majority of homeless adults, prisoners, work related deaths, suicide deaths, homeless vets, dropouts, etc. and still have higher mortality rates for almost all leading causes of death. Try doing some research before spreading your ignorance about the MRA movement.

    This is what MRAs look like. These are Costa Rican MRAs. Men and women joining together for EQUAL RIGHTS. Anyone who has a problem with that is nothing but a hypocrite. http://www.ticotimes.net/2014/06/05/costa-rican-men-will-march-to-demand-gender-equality-before-the-law

    • Auntie Alias

      You’re not fooling anyone who has followed the MRM.

    • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

      We know what an MRA looks like. They look nice on the outside, but they are ugly, violent misogynists on the inside. We don’t need you to tell us.

      • marcetienne

        No Jovan. That’s just your typical stereotyping of MRAs.

        • Arekushieru

          Nope, you did that all on your own while stereotyping feminists, of course. TBSVFS.

        • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

          Not stereotyping when you consider Crimes Against Fathers, an Australian MRA message board, doxes women and calls on their people to threaten them. Or GamerGate and its doxing of Felicia Day and Brianna Wu. Or the MRAs who doxed and threatened Adria Richards. And so on.

          • marcetienne

            I don’t know anything about those groups, and I’ve seen feminists lie over and over about what groups like that do. But even if they did what you’re saying, those are not the majority of MRAs. The National Coalition For Men has never “doxed” anyone. I don’t even know what “doxing” even means. We are a volunteer organiztion of both men and women fighting to bring equal rights to men and fathers and to end sexist anti-male stereotyping and discrimination. Most MRAs have nothing to do with “doxing.” Some feminists do that kind of thing too. In Sweden feminists tried to create a “man tax.” Some feminists have made false accusations. That doesn’t mean they all do. MRAs are fighting for equal rights. Anyone who opposed MRAs overall also opposes equal rights. And since feminists have long fought against joint custody laws and against inclusiion of male victims of domestic violence, I can see that’s the real reason they’re stereotyping and attacking MRAs.

  • marcetienne

    Of course Imandy cites crime data from the Department of Justice to fasely state female victims far exceed male victims, because men are far less likely to report it. Non crime data shows otherwise.

    According to the Centers for Disease Control “More than 1 in 3 women and
    more than 1 in 4 men in the United States have experienced
    rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their
    lifetime” and “About 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have experienced severe
    physical violence by an intimate partner (e.g., hit with a fist or something
    hard, beaten, slammed against something) at some point in their
    lifetime.” See executive summary at http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf

    About 300 studies confirm “women are as physically aggressive, or more
    aggressive, as men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners.
    http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

    For example, a new study by the University of Cumbria confirmed “Women are ‘more controlling and aggressive than men’ in relationships.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/10927507/Women-are-more-controlling-and-aggressive-than-men-in-relationships.html#disqus_thread

    This is true throughout the world. A 32-nation study by the University
    of New Hampshire found women are as violent and controlling as men in relationships
    worldwide. http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2006/may/em_060519male.cfm?type=n
    http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID41E2.pdf

    • fiona64

      It’s convenient how you leave out the fact that the perpetrators of DV, regardless of the gender of their victims, are male 90 percent of the time …

      • expect_resistance

        Sorry I couldn’t posted earlier. My comments are still at LAN. Surprised they have’t been deleted. When I tried to post a response I got a message I was banned and couldn’t post. Here’s a few posts and links of the conversation.

        https://disqus.com/home/discussion/liveactionnews/one_couples_heartbreaking_tale_of_miscarriage_gives_contrast_to_abortion#comment-1656604158

        “Calvin it’s clear you are an overbearing misogynistic control freak that wants to punish women with forced gestation for having sex. I will have awesome mind blowing sex with orgasms and use birth control and abort as I see fit. You get NO say. In addition you are a pompous windbag and have no idea what you are talking about. Get laid and then come back with actual facts.”

        https://disqus.com/home/discussion/liveactionnews/one_couples_heartbreaking_tale_of_miscarriage_gives_contrast_to_abortion#comment-1655872485

        “I don’t fear facts. Calvin you’re going to have to get over the fact you can’t control women. I can tell this frustrates you that you can’t just pound your fist and get your way. Any woman you can’t control you deem as a bad person. Someday you’ll grow up an become an adult and hopefully by then you will understand the intricacies and complexities of life, not everything is black and white good or bad. I wish you luck. Bye bye.”

        https://disqus.com/home/discussion/liveactionnews/one_couples_heartbreaking_tale_of_miscarriage_gives_contrast_to_abortion#comment-1656758995

        “Yes try it you might like it. If you don’t that’s okay too. It’s not like your member will shrivel up from it. Wear a condom or get a bj, or at least jerk one off. It’s healthy to release sperm. God is not going to damn you to hell for waxing one off once and a while.”

      • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

        Actually, a majority of the perpetrators of DV are of the opposing gender as the victim. However, @marcetienne:disqus falsely accused the DOJ of covering up cases of female-on-male DV, a charge to which I have to say is preposterous!

      • marcetienne

        It’s convenient that you totally ignored the overwhelming research showing that is NOT the case, and that women initiate domestic violence about as often as men do.

        About 300 studies confirm “women are as physically aggressive, or more
        aggressive, as men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners.
        http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assaul...

        For example, a new study by the University of Cumbria confirmed “Women are ‘more controlling and aggressive than men’ in relationships.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relati...

        This is true throughout the world. A 32-nation study by the University
        of New Hampshire found women are as violent and controlling as men in relationships
        worldwide. http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2006/ma...
        http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

    Gee here’s the Canadian white ribbon’s communications manager (clay jones) inflating numbers when queried.
    http://youtu.be/Zs-CZHDdu9o?t=2m8s
    Here are feminists from Canada’s capital of Ottawa inflating numbers for profit too
    http://youtu.be/NDoMaikQr24
    Twice
    http://youtu.be/juWULgnLyUM
    Who worked for and defended that Ottawa group?
    Ron Couchman – Community Engagement Manager at white ribbon

    And the local police services inflating numbers about D.V. (Note the officer involved in this fraud also had a working relationship with some of the group from Ottawa)
    http://youtu.be/T2L6tAAAbrA
    And here is 1 of those feminists laughing and mocking male suicide, at a man who lost his brother to suicide. (Me)
    http://youtu.be/KWuLVtH6vgM
    I got a good laugh from reading your hyperbolic hit piece Imani.
    Cheers,
    Dan Perrins Canadian News Director at A Voice for Men.
    (screen grabbed as I know institutions which are ideologically driven and want only true believers to comment, tend to censor opposing pov)

  • Unicorn Farm

    To ETC-

    “”i bathe in male tears”

    It’s a *parody*.

    Imbecile. If you don’t want women to perceive you as “oh-so-stupid men” then try being less stupid.

    • ETC.

      To unicorn Farm,
      a “parody” of what, you moron? So was Valerie Solanas attempting to shoot 2 men parody as well, or that Gina Barecca demanding men be taxed specifically for being men?

      • Arekushieru

        You didn’t mention them. Women are not some amorphous human mass with a thought collective thinking all the same things, after all. Thanks for proving how you REALLY think of women. OOPS.

      • Unicorn Farm

        “To unicorn Farm,
        a “parody” of what, you moron?” (sic)

        Hahahahahaha! A parody of *you*, and your raving MRA lunacy.

        “was Valerie Solanas attempting to shoot 2 men parody as well, or that Gina Barecca demanding men be taxed specifically for being men?”
        Word salad/no discernible point/unrelated to male tears parody/strawman.

        • ETC.

          pffft, you silly female chauvinist pseudo-feminist, i think i clearly stated in my oh so offensive deleted post that i wasn’t an MRA, but a masculist. Unlike many MRA’s we don’t focus on Feminism, but sexism against men in general, meaning if an anti-feminist conservative exhibits more sexism towards men than some equity feminist (no, by equity feminist i don’t mean Christina Hoff Sommers, she’s neither egalitarian nor a feminist,despite claiming to be) then we consider him/her to be more of an enemy than the feminist, likewise, if some “feminist” happens to be more misandric than a conservative, she/he is more of an enemy to us. We also believe in emulating Feminisms radicalism. Just like women’s lib involved women becoming somewhat butch and aspiring to be a little like men, men’s lib will involve men becoming as bold, bossy and feisty as women (the dominant gender) have historically been to us males. Our rhetoric and approach is different to MRAs.

          “word salad/no discernible point/unrelated to male tears parody/strawman”

          well, that there’s no discernible point to you doesn’t surprise me…you’re not the sharpest tool in the box, it seems…

          • Unicorn Farm

            “well, that there’s no discernible point to you doesn’t surprise me…you’re not the sharpest tool in the box, it seems…”
            No, I assure you, I’m perfectly sharp, I just don’t have the interest or the obligation to spell your own arguments and thoughts out for you. I’m just going to save my time responding to a person who can write out a complete argument. I’d even settle for a complete sentence.

          • ETC.

            Lol, i wouldn’t want someone like you to spell out my thoughts, rest assured. Well, your last post was just diverting tactics and possibly feigned incomprehension. I mean, the things i wrote in my previous post weren’t all that difficult to understand. If there were some mistakes, it’s because i’m not a native english speaker.
            I’d like to see you try your hand at writing something in german, lol…

          • Unicorn Farm

            I’ll I’m hearing from you is “blah blah female chauvinist! blah blah MRA! Masculinity! Derp! blah blah blah females! blah rad fems libs blah blah haha you can’t speak German!” It’s not interesting and I don’t care enough about you or what you’re trying to say to parse it out.
            We get it. You’re pissed off at women and you are pissed off that you got called out for thinking “I bathe in male tears” is serious discourse.

          • ETC.

            No, all you’re PRETENDING to hear is “blah blah female chauvinist! blah blah MRA! Masculinity!Derp!blah blah blah females! blah rad fems libs”. Either that, or you’re really not bright enough to comprehend what i said.

            “I bathe in male tears” is a statement, not “discourse” (ha,ha), so for obvious reasons i never thought it was “serious discourse” and whether it was serious or not is beside the point, it’s utter tastelessness in the face of male suffering and grief.
            Imagine if a man whose cat or close friend had died recently, or whose house had burnt to the ground,a man who had been crying a lot, was walking down the street and saw someone wearing a t-shirt saying “i bathe in male tears”, f–king disgusting, right?
            Now get stuffed!

          • enhancedvibes

            If I saw that I’d ask the person what that meant or look it up BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE DO TO UNDERSTAND THINGS THEY DONT UNDERSTAND. NO ONE would see that and think that is a serious comment, puhfrickinglease.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Imagine if a man whose cat or close friend had died recently, or whose house had burnt to the ground,a man who had been crying a lot, was walking down the street and saw someone wearing a t-shirt saying “i bathe in male tears”, f–king disgusting, right?”

            This is, literally, hands-down, the most absurd thing I’ve ever read on this site.

            No, it’s not f***ing disgusting. It’s just not. The t-shirt wearer does not literally bathe in male tears. She does not figuratively bathe in male tears. She is wearing a t-shirt that reflects a popular parody of MRA’s characterizations of feminists. If a man–who apparently has suffered a string of terribly tragedies in which his friend tried to rescue his cat from his burning house and all died- sees this shirt, that is not “fucking disgusting.” I refuse to believe that this hypothetical sad man would a) not perceive that the shirt was a parody or a reference to something and google it and b) believe the shirt was related to him or his tragedies in any way and c) be SO distraught over a tshirt referencing tears that he would lose his shit. That’s simply unreasonable.

            “Now get stuffed!”
            Aww, there we go! Some threats and insults from the big, strong, masculine man!! You mad, bro?

  • night porter

    For some reason my completely non-offensive comment was flagged, so I am re-posting:

    Back in my early internet days on IRC I knew a couple of proto MRAs. The
    funny thing is, they would whine constantly about the “femin&zis”, and
    gave every indication that they truly hated women, yet they were always
    desperate for female attention. Quite sad really.

  • Paul

    If you read the articles on AVfM and whiteribbon.org explaining why they did it and the history you will find that the reason they used that name was not because that organisation campaigns to end violence against women. It was because at best the whiteribbon organisations simply distort the facts about DV to minimise the number and severity of male victims and at worst it actively campaigns against others providing equivalent help to men. The reason they do this is because it wants all of the funding given by governments. Whatever their motives it is wrong.

    Many people have asked can’t you campaign for help for male victims of DV without attacking organisations that help women. I would reflect that back, can’t you help women without campaigning against men getting the help they need.

    If the whiteribbon organisations just stopped distorting the figures and lobbying against helping men the whiteribbon.org would probably vanish overnight. Of course it may be replaced by similar web sites to call out similar bias from other organisations with a feminist ideological agenda.

    At the end of the day there is no reason for a gendered approach to DV. At least not a government funded one. Help should be provided based on the need of the individual not on their gender. To do otherwise is the literal definition of sexism.

    • Auntie Alias

      I’ll tell you why they did it, besides the usual lining of Elam’s pockets. The real White Ribbon campaign challenges ideas about the traditional male gender role. On one hand, AVFM and its followers like to complain about gender roles to further their victim narrative but, when push comes to shove, they denounce any efforts to move away from those roles as attempts to “feminize” men.

      There is no female equivalent of toxic masculinity. It’s a unique problem that hurts both genders.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

        Examining your statement’s last bit;
        “There is no female equivalent of toxic masculinity. It’s a unique problem that hurts both genders.”
        So female infanticide is what? How women show their love to their newborn children?
        Nope nothing toxic about that at all.

        And lets not forget women genitally mutilating their male children’s genitals because its visually pleasing.
        Again nothing toxic about that either.

        How about lesbian intimate partner violence? Which runs at higher rates than either heterosexual or homosexual IPV.
        Definitely no toxic femininity there.

        How about adult female teacher raping their young male student. I know that’s not toxic femininity either.

        And the list goes on and on Aunty.

        • Auntie Alias

          Women aren’t raised to be aggressive like men are nor are they expected to be aggressive by society. Girls and women are allowed to express a full range of emotions while boys and men are discouraged from doing so. That’s what I’m talking about.

          • Arekushieru

            Actually, both men and women are discouraged from behaviour that doesn’t suit their gender. But men acting like women is perceived as more wrong than women acting like men, because feminization is perceived as far more wrong than masculinization. Really should ask Dannyboy, here, why that IS. Because it’s coming from his OWN cohort of MRAssholes.

          • Auntie Alias

            Good point but he won’t give a straight answer most of the time.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Aunty you always get a straight answer from me. You just tend to make believe I don’t.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            I’ve had a trans friend going on 40 yrs now and never had an issue with their choices. I dated a woman who worked in a gay bar. And we’ve plenty of trans individuals in the movement.

            Your claim is just more propaganda.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            First there is nothing wrong with being aggressive in a non-violent way. You can aggressively pursue a Phd, career or a dream.
            Secondly when a man expresses emotions he is shamed by women and men for doing so. And lets not forget most children are raised by their mothers who instill those traits in their male children.
            Now given we are 50 yrs + of feminism being mainstream and its failed so far why do you think more feminism is the answer?

          • Auntie Alias

            Yes, aggression as in tenacity is a positive thing. When it’s channeled into possessiveness, entitlement, and violence, not so much.

            Men are the primary shamers of other men’s emotions; i.e., fathers and peers. “Don’t cry like a girl!” “Man up.”

            Keep on crowing about your success. I’ll watch as AVFM gets pushed further and further into the margins.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            So you figure it comes mostly from fathers. How so very femi-sexist of you Aunty.

            Found on a feminist site.

            The little boy was lagging behind, tears running down his cheeks. His
            mom turned around and yelled at him, “Stop crying! What, are you going to walk in there crying like a little girl?”

            http://community.feministing.com/2011/06/15/are-you-going-to-walk-in-there-crying-like-a-little-girl/
            Since women have been the primary care givers how you would come to the conclusion its mostly men is quite telling of your ideological skewed view of reality.

            How long have you been crowing about AVFM ending? Its getting a little old and shop worn wouldn’t you agree?

        • Arekushieru

          Editing….

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Neither did Aunty. So its equal.
            For 30$ / hr I can bring citations.

          • Arekushieru

            And I’m sure Auntie will provide citations free of charge. She did not make any specific claims, though. So sorry.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Aunty knows better than to ask me for citations. She had her hinnie handed to her many times in the past by doing so.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Citations for all your claims and then you can have mine. I’ve provide many examples and irrefutable evidence in previous comments while all you’ve done is prattle on like some school kid.

        • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

          Did you forget about the male teacher in Montana that raped a 14-year-old pupil and got only 30 days in jail?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            sorry ot.

          • Arekushieru

            Nope, it’s not off-topic if you want to discuss how women are treated differently than men in cases of ‘toxic’ femininity vs TOXIC masculinity. This proves right there that you DON’T have an argument. Oops.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            So, anything that does not kowtow to the MRA line is considered off-topic to you? Nice to know.

          • Arekushieru

            You are awesome, Jovan!

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            At what is the question.
            Tiddly winks perhaps?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Topic was female toxicity.

          • Arekushieru

            And why was the topic female toxicity? Because we are comparing the two. Thanks for proving us RIGHT.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            I suspect by us you mean the voices in your head.

      • Paul

        If you’re going to accuse someone of lining their own pockets you’d better be prepared to prove it.

        The original whiteribbon campaign doesn’t challenge traditional gender roles at all. It makes men responsible for protecting women and children which is what they’ve done FOREVER. It does that while at the same time treating men as perpetrators, women as victims and actively preventing men from getting help. It might have been started with good, albeit misguided, intentions but it’s morphed into just another NGO riding the tax payer gravy train.

        Toxic masculinity is just a phrase made up by feminists to shame, demean and manipulate men. Masculinity itself is not bad but like anything it can be taken to extremes. Toxic masculinity is just an attempt to conflate behaviors that are inherently bad with masculinity.

        Based on what I expect you think the behaviors of toxic masculinity are you’re right that it affects both genders but that’s because both genders can exhibit the same behaviors.

        In the following video there are 7000 feminist women assaulting 1500 men simply because they are standing between the feminists and the cathedral that the feminists want to deface.

        Those men exhibit everything that is good about men. Strength, courage, restraint, mutual support and protection. Those women exhibit everything that is bad about feminists and should all have been locked up.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOCD_T9Qqpc

        • Auntie Alias

          From whiteribbon.ca:

          Our vision is for a masculinity that embodies the best qualities of being human. We believe that men are part of the solution and part of a future that is safe and equitable for all people.

          Through education, awareness-raising, outreach, technical assistance, capacity building, partnerships and creative campaigns, White Ribbon is helping create tools, strategies and models that challenge negative, outdated concepts of manhood and inspire men to understand and embrace the incredible potential they have to be a part of positive change.

          “It makes men responsible for protecting women and children which is what they’ve done FOREVER.”

          What men have done “FOREVER” is protect women and children from other men’s violence. The answer isn’t to teach women not to be violent!

          Which is not to say that some women aren’t violent. The thing is that girls aren’t raised to be aggressive and competitive the way boys are. Schoolyard fights and barroom brawls aren’t considered badges of honour for girls and women.

          Regarding the video, it was a pro-choice demonstration against the Catholic Church. Not sure what the behaviour of women at a protest has to do with anything. I could point to every war and claim they prove men are violent but that, of course, is ridiculous, just as your claim is.

          • Paul

            Actually men protected women against the world as much as if not more than other men.

            Anyway glad to see you agree that whiteribbon.ca is just perpetuating existing stereotypes.

            The video shows that women can be just as violent, nasty and downright vicious as men. Especially when men don’t fight back. If those men had hit back not only would the women have run away screaming there would have been uproar.

            I noticed you didn’t actually condemn the violence on that video. Do you think what they did was unacceptable or not? Or is it ok to use violence in the campaign for women to have the choice to terminate a fetus?

            Boys aren’t typically raised to be aggressive, neither are girls. Boys are told not to hit girls, girls are not told the same.

            So, the solution to male violence is to teach men not be violent but the solution to female violence is not to teach them not to be violent? No wonder it’s still a serious problem?

            What do you think children who see their mother beating on their father grow up to be? Abusers. It’s a cycle and you can’t stop it until you deal with all violence, focusing on the 60% done by men will not fix it.

            The aim of every DV charity should be to put themselves out of business by solving the problem. Unfortunately they seem more focused on papering over the cracks and keeping that government gravy flowing.

  • Astrokid

    It’s not that women have been subjugated by men since the dawn of time, and feminism seeks a little balance in the order of things—to liberate women from the jackbooted thugs of patriarchy

    Professional Victimhood 101. Lets hear it from Bio Engineer and Author of Evil Genes, Barbara Oakley

    Dr. Smith also sensitively describes the inhospitable climate on college campuses towards men. As a college professor, I can vouch for the deeply troubling atmosphere — I’ve attended dozens of luncheons over the years celebrating women’s victimization with litanies of misleading and downright false “facts” and one-sided perspectives that resemble nothing so much as an old-fashioned revival meeting. (God forbid anyone ever stand upright to object to the misinformation being conveyed.) As Dr. Smith observes, women already approach 60% of the population of most campuses. If the percentages of men and women were reversed, we would have a national uproar.

    I was once invited to speak to a class of feminists about life as a female engineering professor. I looked at these bright, intelligent young women and couldn’t resist. “What the hell are you doing in here studying feminist theory?” I asked. “Why aren’t you over in the School of Engineering, studying with me and getting yourself out of victimization by getting a fascinating, empowering, and high paying job as engineer? My generation of women’s rights activists fought for you to have that opportunity, and you’re acting as if we’d done nothing.” The students sat staring at me, open-mouthed.

    • night porter

      Says the guy who believes that feminists rule India, and that men are the only victims there

      • Astrokid

        Citation please.

        • night porter

          Slymepit.

          • Astrokid

            Is that your citation? Dont waste my time. Your next comment either have the quotes (no quote-mining please) or I am done.

          • night porter

            I could care less. No one misses you over there.

    • Arekushieru

      So, a woman expects women to get themselves out of their victimization but Paul Elam and his ilk, including women like her, expect WOMEN to also get MEN out of their victimization (because, seriously, the ones who are claiming personal victimhood are YOU bigots, NOT women) and you claim that women are the ones that are doing the victimizing (in VERY contradictory terms I might add)? Learn2logic101. THEN come back.

  • lady_black

    Dear men: if you want something done about the perceived inequity toward men (for one thing, there is a dearth of beds for male victims of domestic violence, regardless of who is perpetrating it) DO NOT GIVE YOUR MONEY TO PAUL ELAM, or A Voice For Men. He isn’t going to do anything but put it in his own pocket. The problem with Paul is, he doesn’t really want to do anything to help. He’s a grafter who takes your money and then whines because feminists aren’t helping male victims. Excuse me. We have our hands full enough helping female victims.

  • Auntie Alias

    Hell, YES!! Best takedown I’ve seen yet. Thank you for this and for not pulling any punches.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

      And its causing us to piss ourselves laughing,
      Will feminism ever have an A game?

      • Auntie Alias

        Hey, Dan. Surely you didn’t expect a positive reaction to this latest stunt.

        If feminism doesn’t have an A game, how come we continue to make gains and the MRM sits on the sidelines spinning their wheels? Those squeaky wheels aren’t getting the kind of attention needed to convince society that the MRM has anything decent to offer.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

          Tbh expect a better response, but you feminists haven’t been able to produce.
          Just like you haven’t been able to produce anything close to equal treatment of people.

          Given all the millions you feminists have at your disposal you’d think you could pay for better hit pieces. Oh wait I know why feminists aren’t able. That feminist bastion of ‘truth’ and ‘equality’ (jezebel) is loosing its war chest now that advertisers are dropping them. (kellogs etc) And that is just a minor hint of feminism’s future.

          Whose making gains again?
          Pretty amazing how far the MHRM has gone in such a short time wouldn’t you say? Watch what the morrow brings Auntie its going to get a hell of a lot bumpier for sjw / feminists in the future.
          I’ve got my popcorn ready and my beer chillin.

          • Arekushieru

            Hmm, contradictory much? First you say women have made all the gains, but then you say men are making the gains. Cognitive dissonance TO THE MAX.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Try reading and produce where I said women, please.
            Pro-tip try not to confuse and ideology with a demographic of society.
            Class dismissed.

          • Auntie Alias

            We haven’t been able to produce? Really? If that was true, the MRM wouldn’t have anything to complain about.

            Jezebel is hardly a bastion of feminist thought. It’s more of a pop culture site.

            “Pretty amazing how far the MHRM has gone in such a short time wouldn’t you say?”

            Heh, from oblivion to widely despised. Good job!!

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Aunty feminists have been able to produce much other than baseless allegations and attempts to link disturbed criminals to it. Basically 1000 word ad-homs. All fluff no substance.
            jezebel is a mutli-million dollar bastion of feminist propaganda. Pretty much feminism’s flagship in the media world.
            Being despised by feminists is a badge of honour we wear proudly. Just like being hated by the kkk would be a badge to wear with honour.

            Our net and rl presence / membership grows by the second.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            The thing is, Kellogg’s capitulated to a group of misogynistic extremists hellbent on destroying women at all costs (GamerGate). Newsweek, hardly a liberal feminist site, posted the data this past weekend. I tweeted that data to my carrier.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Newsweeks coverage don’t cut it considering there is plenty of irrefutable evidence to indicate otherwise.
            Tip of the iceberg what went on with kellogs, and its only going to snowball as we move forward.

            Same thing happened with the womenagainstfeminism ht. A ton of feminist / sjw threatening women who choose not to hate or follow a hate filled misanthropic ideology.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            The only evidence that is irrefutable is that GamerGate exists mainly to harass and threaten women. Data does not lie, people do.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Spoken like a true cultist.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Spoken like a true MRA truther who denies evidence when it is in front of their faces via Bing searches.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Cool a rubber and glue reply. Gave that up after elementary school.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Given all the millions you feminists have at your disposal you’d think you could pay for better hit pieces.”

            Yes, all Feminists(r) are able to just walk on up to the Feminist Bank of Money and withdraw large sums in order to pay for journalism. Do you even hear yourself?

            “That feminist bastion of ‘truth’ and ‘equality’ (jezebel) is loosing (sic) its war chest now that advertisers are dropping them (kellogs etc) And that is just a minor hint of feminism’s future.”

            Whoever said that jezebel was a feminist bastion of truth and equality? Jezebel is a notch above buzzfeed. Your straw man needs a little more stuffing on the left side.

            “Pretty amazing how far the MHRM has gone in such a short time wouldn’t you say”
            Nah. Really just part and parcel of the proliferation of user generated content on the internet. Just giving men a new avenue to whine.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Did I say all feminists have access to those funds?
            Do try not to put your words in my mouth tends to make you look like a bigger fool than you already are.

            Plenty of feminists point to jezebel, and they do have a very large bankroll. They really like to point to lindy west response piece to my exposing and interacting with big red. Among others. So whilst you may not there is a substantial portion of feminists who do.
            Try again.

            Awwe how cute you ended with an attempt at shaming language. Not to be unexpected from a feminist.

          • Unicorn Farm

            “Do try not to put your words in my mouth tends to make you look like a bigger fool than you already are.”

            “You feminists” implies that yes, we all have access to the funds. Don’t get mad that you got called out on your bs.

            “Awwe how cute you ended with an attempt at shaming language. Not to be unexpected from a feminist.”
            Butthurt much?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Correct feminists as a group do have access to huge gobs of money. However the way you phrased your reply indicated any single feminist has access. Which is twisting my words, aka putting words in my mouth, to suit your framing.
            Try again.
            If you call enjoying lulz at your mental gymnastics trying to sell feminism being ‘butt hurt’, then you would be correct.

          • Unicorn Farm

            You just seem super angry at me and I’ll I’ve done was tell you that “us feminists” don’t actually have access to large amounts of money and tell you that Jezebel is pretty low on the chain of feminist thinking.

            “If you call enjoying lulz at your mental gymnastics trying to sell feminism being ‘butt hurt’, then you would be correct.”
            What? Are you drunk?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Sorry are you reading something that isn’t there? I’m actually enjoying your mental gymnastics. Enjoying something has nothing to do with anger. I realize your feminist blinders can get you all confused. Again.
            And stop lying. Feminist organizations get money given to them hand over fist. From government grants to corporate donations, (although as noted that sponsorship is dying off as it should), to private donations.
            While you may not hold jezebel in high regard it is one of the most highly trafficked feminist website around with one of the largest bankrolls. They promote feminist theories no matter how fraudulent or flawed said theories are.

            Still enjoying the lulz your mental gymnastics provide drunk or sober.

          • Unicorn Farm

            Dude, I haven’t lied to you in any way. What lie did I tell you? I’ve barely even made any actual arguments or propositions.
            English can’t be your first language, can it?

          • lady_black

            He’s a drunk.

          • Unicorn Farm

            Seems drunk.

          • lady_black

            Jezebel is a blogging site, not “a bastion of feminist truth.”

          • Unicorn Farm

            Most things on jezebel are cross posted from other sites and relate to pop culture and cat videos.
            BTW, if “us feminists” have so much money, when do I get my Us Feminist Bank debit card?
            Lady Black, have you gotten yours in the mail yet?!?!

          • lady_black

            Hell, I don’t have any money. No Feminist Bank debit card, either.

        • fiona64

          I see the Angry Man-Child crowd has shown up again. :-/

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            You lie about men and we come by to put an end to your lies Fiona.
            You don’t like it, stop lying about men.

          • night porter

            Fiona is not lying about men. She loves men.real men.

            Not whiny MRA babies.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Did she give you permission to write that?

          • night porter

            I know her and I’ve seen you in action.
            A single brain cell of hers is more intelligent than you.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Awwwwe you’re so cute when you white knight. Even though your replies lack a cogent point. Probably what makes your replies and attempts to reply so cute.

          • night porter

            Whatever. You have said nothing meaningful.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Remedial insults, for example like the one you just wrote out, do not warrant a meaningful reply.

          • night porter

            Blah blah blah

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Did you forget your meds again deary?

          • night porter
          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            awwe you really are such a cutie.

          • ansuz

            Such charming. Very ableism. Wow.

          • lady_black

            It thinks you’re male.

          • night porter

            They always do.

          • fiona64

            Poor little dudebro; so angry that he can’t control women …

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Really insults? Not much of a defensible position but typical of feminists.

      • night porter

        You have no A game.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

          Thanks for proving my point.
          Cheers!

          • night porter

            ::yawn::

  • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

    If AVFM has even one American writer, the site can be sued for DMCA violations for their crass attempt at co-opting the White Ribbon Campaign’s web page. I don’t know about copyright laws elsewhere around the world, though.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

      Plenty, and we heard their sabre rattling.
      See us flinching?

      • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

        Thanks for that explanation. Guess what? The Digital Millennium Copyright Act also applies to A Voice for Men. The same DMCA law that led to LimeWire’s demise can lead to the demise of Elam and Co.’s hate site.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

          We welcome the attempt and welcome the chance to make it all public.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Make what public? Like the fact that most men are abused by women, yet Mr. Elam and AVFM do absolutely nothing but churn misogynistic hate? Yea, got it.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Actually AVFM played an integral part of helping to open the Centre for Men and Their families in Toronto. Organized the first international conference on men’s issues. Exposes fraudulent claims by feminism / ists. I know you don’t like haring the truth but there it is for you to accept or deny.
            Btw have you listened to white fibbin inflating numbers. I have and recorded it ;)

            http://youtu.be/Zs-CZHDdu9o?t=2m3s

          • Arekushieru

            YOU recorded it? Why hasn’t it made the rounds on Conservative news sites, then (of which there are a PLETHORA)?

            Exposes fraudulent claims? Then that isn’t a centre to help men, it’s simply a centre to complain about one’s lack of privilege to abuse their spouses.

            Because they aren’t actually DOING anything to ACTUALLY help men.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            I’m glad we agree the white fibbin organization in that call isn’t a centre to help men.
            Never sent it to the media outlets. Probably why it never got picked up.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            There are at least three centers to help men where I live.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Really? Why aren’t you spreading knowledge of their work around then?

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            I have done so in the past, particularly with the work that the Cumbee Center does.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            “The Cumbee Center opened
            its first emergency shelter for battered women and their children in
            1984 to shelter domestic violence victims of Aiken, Allendale and
            Barnwell counties.”
            Looks like they do incredible work for abused men. By not even listing them.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            In 2011, they began accepting men. Shows how little you know about their history, derp.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Maybe they should put that in their history, then again it might piss off feminist like you.
            Name calling, colour me surprised you resorted to the tool of the weak minded.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            I’m sure you’ve been called worse because of your propensity to pick fights rather than studying facts.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Yup and by better, more intelligent people than you. However that does not excuse your behavior, or tactics.
            Sorry, facts?
            The org you listed doesn’t have what you claim listed on their history page.
            In fact lets see the link please or am going to have to call you a lair.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            My source: WIS News 10, WLTX News 19 and WACH Fox 57. All of this, I can verify, was from October 2011.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            They’re not links.

            So unless you can provide proof …

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Links go directly into moderation on most sites that uses this commenting platform (and most sites that use Disqus don’t even bother touching comments in moderation), so use Bing searches.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            They don’t on this site. You can see that in plenty of replies. Try again.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            I wish I could post my screenshot here, but here is the twitter page. Scan their about section carefully. http://v.gd/Pj7ESI

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Right from their services page

            “Emergency Shelter

            The Cumbee Center’s
            emergency shelter is located in a confidential site in Aiken County.
            The emergency shelter hosts up to 28 abused women and their children in a
            safe and caring atmosphere as they decide the future direction of their
            lives. ”
            http://www.cumbeecenter.org/services.html

            I see no mention of men and their children in this statement.

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Twitter is my fourth source on this, as I spent a lot of time on there between classes in tech school.

          • Bewildered

            Wonder why it took them so long if your info is correct ?

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            They saw a need to help abused men closer to where they are, but were afraid of being shunned by the South Carolina-Aiken community, which was the case of all national shelters and their relationships to women prior to VAWA’s reauthorization in 2006, which made the law gender-inclusive.

            Also, they studied how Safe Homes, a domestic violence shelter in nearby Augusta, Ga., were able to help men to leave abusive women.

          • Arekushieru

            So, like he said, why are you leaving it up to FEMINISTS to do your JOB?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            We aren’t.

            The MHRM has to keep pushing through feminism’s hate propaganda and stranglehold on the media to get anything done. (See the piss pour hit piece your commenting on as an example.) Which means progress is slower than we’d like but progress is being made.

            Not helping but hindering said progress is cretins like big red causing a show for the world to see and stopping scholarly lectures from proceeding.

            BTW Did you catch Darwin’s Rejects?

            http://youtu.be/9CgeBiCy9Wc
            National Post did ;)

          • Bewildered

            Because they say they are for everyone ! Do you mean to say that they are lying?

          • Auntie Alias

            The Toronto men’s centre was CAFE’s doing, not AVFM’s.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Aunty you know very little of went on. As a Foundation Member at the Centre let me assure you, much like your other comments, this claim is just as wrong.

          • Auntie Alias

            Admittedly, it’s hard to keep track since at one point they disavowed any connection to AVFM. All I ever saw from AVFM (the site) was cheerleading from the sidelines.

            Does this centre provide shelter or counselling?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            I know you make a lot of claims from ignorance. Don’t you ever get tired of that?
            As for services we have some in place and are building. It never was to be a shelter, another of your claims from ignorance.

          • Auntie Alias

            Um, I was simply asking a question because I didn’t know what their mission was. I still don’t.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Google is your friend Aunty. Put your big girl panties on and use it.
            I’m not some signatory to the sexist he for she campaign.

          • Auntie Alias

            I already did, briefly. All I saw was a push to get men’s issues into schools. I don’t know why they needed to set up a new group for that. CAFE was doing that already.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Please Aunty you should know better than to try and sell your lies to me.

          • Auntie Alias

            All you have is insults. Typical.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Calling you out for your lies is an insult?

          • Bewildered

            For the feminists,yes it is !

          • http://aikenareaprogressive.blogspot.com/ jovan1984

            Dannyboy, the pot, called the kettle, me, black when I used the word derp at the end when I corrected his misinformation about my local DV shelter.

          • Auntie Alias

            He likes accusing others of the things he does himself.

          • Bewildered

            Now,now,now, you are projecting ! Gotta love these safe spaces.

          • fiona64

            Can’t answer the question, eh?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            You can’t use google either?

          • fiona64

            When you make the assertion, Danny, it’s incumbent upon YOU to back it up. No one has to do your homework for you.

            What’s the matter? So lazy that you expect women to do your work for you?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Well we could set up a time and day to film and record both your and Aunty’s google skills or lack there of but don’t you think that would be a little extreme?
            However if you provide your address get Aunty’s too we can set up to prove or disprove the claims about the lack of google skills.

          • lady_black

            This isn’t about Google skills. This is about you proving your assertion. Surely as a founding member you have references at your fingertips, right? Unless you’re lying about what you’re doing to help men.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            If you read the original reply I wouldn’t be pointing out your lack of comprehension skills in this comment.
            Carry on.

          • lady_black

            Yep, they do expect women to do their work for them. It’s one of their whining points.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Yah I know its why we launched the she for he campaign. lmao
            project much?

          • lady_black

            You made the assertion, YOU back it up.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Asked and answered actually don’t you feminists ever pay attention?
            “As for services we have some in place and are building. It never was to be a shelter, another of your claims from ignorance.”

          • Arekushieru

            Yeah, exposing you for the wife abusers whining about the loss of privilege to beat your wives that you are.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            We don’t care to know about your personal life.
            You should stop abusing your spouse though.

  • ETC.

    So, allowing women on here to be belligerent, assertive and insulting, yet not allowing men to be the same, while ironically pretending to be anti-sexism, no,no,no,no,no,no…that’s not on..! If you trendy anti-intellectuals don’t like different angles and view points presented here, then perhaps you shouldn’t have a comments section at all !
    So, for this thread to be a bit more authentic and to restore it in its originial form, here’s both my deleted comment once more. Here goes:

    Err, well, men’s rights IS a social justice cause, so it figures they would want to “infiltrate” social justice movements, doesn’t it??!? I’m saying “they” because i’m a masculist, not an MRA, and some MRA’s don’t like us masculists and we tend to believe society’s a matriarchy, which many MRA’s don’t.

    “I bathe in male tears” (famous radical feminist slogan/T shirt)

    Lovely, isn’t it?

    You really think amidst all this blatant sexism against men today, some men, especially men who have been burnt, shouldn’t reserve the right to be similarly misogynist? Come on, now…

    The White Ribbon Campaign’s (not Elam’s, the other one) mission statement is so contradictory as to be laughable.
    It asks for a “new vision of masculinity” while simultaneously asking men “to wear white ribbons as a pledge to never commit, condone or remain silent about violence against women or girls” which is rooted in an obsolete type of masculinity of yesteryear, calling for chivalrous protection prioritizing women. Not exactly a “new vision of masculinity”. Sexist baboons. Reactionaries trying to pass themselves off as progressive.

    This confirms my impression of most modern day “feminists” : They’re essentially anti-feminist conservatives in feminist disguise pushing gender norms. Anti-feminists of a different shade than some MRA’s are, but anti-feminists nonetheless.
    Real, archetypal feminists didn’t even want doors held open to them by men and were opposed to chivalry.
    What has happened is feminism has opened the gender liberation discourse and now that many men want to be included and have their part of said discourse, “feminists” have sneakily injected traditionalist views and conservative expectations of men in their rebottled “feminism” they’re trying to peddle, hoping us oh-so-stupid men will not notice they’ve changed the ingredients in order to prevent men’s liberation.
    That’s why nowadays you get self-proclaimed “feminists” (read anti-feminists/ post-feminists/ pseudo-feminists) like Bea Campbell who are saying it’s a man’s duty to be protective towards women, or those “feminists” who were seen holding a sign that read “let’s reclaim the white knight ethos”

    P/S: a white kinght isn’t a male feminist necessarily. It’s a man who passionately sticks up for women. Disproportionately so, meaning, in a way they wouldn’t for men.
    PP/S: All MRA’s aren’t opposed to all forms of feminism. That’s another lie. Some at MensRights reddit don’t mind more egalitarian forms of feminism. You lot know this full well, but you like to distort and sensationalize. Occasionally even some on AVfM aren’t strictly anti-feminist.

  • Arekushieru

    OMG, I love both you and Jovan! You said this way better than I ever could!

  • P. McCoy

    It’s easier to blame women as the victimzers rather than make a head on assault on powerful males that make rules against men that they are complaining about.

  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mensrightsmovement/ Mens Rights Movement

    We feel that the author is a male hater… do men have a right to feel?

    • lady_black

      I love men. Paul Elam doesn’t qualify.

  • h0tr0d

    Pretty ironic that a hateful screed like this could paint a whole movement due to the actions of one site. The author is doing exactly what she is criticizing. Feminism, hypocrisy is thy name. Here’s where I donate my money. => https://nationalparentsorganization.org/
    What this hack is really worried about is the site exposes the all the lies that are peddled by these man haters.

    • lady_black

      The site puts money in the pocket of a grafter who does nothing for men.