Dallas Keeps Red Light Cameras, Right to Screw Up Your Credit

Categories: City Hall

redlightwikicommons.PNG
Derek Jensen
We'll be dealing with these for a while more yet.
They don't work. At least not in the way they're intended to. Study after study shows that red light cameras are, at best, an inefficient revenue generator and, at worst, increase accidents.

Dallas' red light enforcement is especially bad. Because the city signed its contract with Xerox -- the company that collects red light fines for the city -- in 2006, it is able to ding the credit reports of drivers who fail to pay their tickets. The Legislature made the practice illegal in 2007, but Dallas was grandfathered in because of its existing contract.

City staff recommended extending the current contract, rather than putting a new one out for bid, because that will allow Dallas to mess with scofflaws' credit until at least 2017. Credit reporting is the only thing that gives red light tickets teeth, they say.

Wednesday, over strenuous objections from council member Philip Kingston, the City
Council approved the contract extension.

"[Red light cameras] are based on two fallacies," Kingston said. "The first is that there are a bunch of people out there who intentionally run red lights. Those people almost don't exist; maybe they do exist, but it's a vanishingly small number. Then, the second fallacy is to assume that a $75 dollar ticket is going to deter that psychopath."

Even if council members believe the cameras promote safety -- and the data says the cameras actually tend to increase rear-end collisions at a greater rate than they decrease T-bone collisions -- Kingston said that they should consider what the credit reporting does to people who can't afford to pay.

"If you still believe in red light cameras, that's fine. I still believe that my Alvin Harper jersey helps the Cowboys win and this season I'm right," he said, but continuing to hurt people's credit is "a regressive way to do collections."

Kingston being the only member of the council with any real knowledge of the data on the subject, what followed was expected.

Sandy Greyson, Tennelle Atkins and Mayor Mike Rawlings, all of whom voted for the contract, said that they had been involved in accidents where the other party ran a red light.

"I'm not trying to impose additional [fines] on poor people," Greyson said. People who don't want to or can't pay the $75 "shouldn't run a red light."

Dwaine Caraway, who told First Assistant Police Chief Charlie Cato that he wanted DPD to "camera up the city of Dallas," also expressed hesitance over credit marking. He, Scott Griggs and Adam Medrano were the only council members besides Kingston to vote against the cameras and the credit report markers.

"[The cameras] were bunk when we put them in. Further study shows they're more bunk now," Kingston said.


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26 comments
TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

They make really good targets.

James080
James080

Kingston is wrong, although I appreciate his libertarian tendencies. I see people run red lights often. A yellow light seems to encourage many drivers to floor it no matter how far they are from the intersection. If there has been an increase of rear end collisions, and a decrease in T-Bone collisions, there have likely been fewer and less severe injuries as the result. These cameras don't effect me one bit, because I don't run red lights and don't tail gate the car ahead.

John1073
John1073

They need to design stop sign cameras if they really want to make money.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

People speed intentionally far more than they run red lights.  Put speed cameras at these intersections instead of red light cameras, if its really about safety.   Speeding is what causes these accidents more than just red light running.  and the person who is going to cause a t bone accident, is going to do it regardless of the red light camera being there

whocareswhatithink
whocareswhatithink

Roundabouts. Study after study has proven roundabouts increase traffic flow and decrease accidents...and they are CHEAP!

d-may
d-may

The problem is not traffic light cameras, the problem is the traffic lights. You can make an intersection safer, more efficient, and vastly less costly by removing lights and replacing them with 4-way stop signs. Any "traffic control" device that causes a driver to speed up through the intersection just add it's giving the go ahead to someone else, is a very, very bad design.

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@James080 well youve never been caught is what you are saying.  I got one bc I turned right without stopping for 2 whole seconds according to a judge.  wtf.  I clearly stopped, and there was clearly no one coming in the video.

jesdynf
jesdynf

@whocareswhatithink They terrify old people. The cranks and failures will come out of the woodwork over them. Watched it happen in Arlington.

umasspaulc
umasspaulc

@d-may  Huh?  Have you ever driven before?  Ever come to a busy intersection when the lights are inoperative and it works as a 4-way stop?  Ever realize it takes 20 minutes to get through the intersection and everyone stares at each other awkwardly as they approach?  Yes, let's just replace all traffic lights in a major metropolitan area with 4-way stops.  Brilliant.  Please cut up your drivers license.

James080
James080

@ScottsMerkin @James080 

No, I conscientiously do not run red lights or stop signs. Ever. But I have paid a $75.00 red light fine, when my kid borrowed my car and blazed through an intersection 5-6 seconds after the light went red. They had the video on line to prove it, unless they faked it somehow. Car owner pay, which does suck.

dmay1
dmay1

@umasspaulc @d-may That's because people are expecting one thing and getting another. This causes confusion and slows down traffic. Replace the light, and that confusion goes away in a few days  (also having the effect of dramatically reducing traffic accidents at the intersection, but who cares about safety). 


On the otherhand, have you ever sat at a red-light with no one using the intersection? Everyone sitting still while the light is green for a lane with no one in it. That happens at every light at every intersection every rotation. That doesn't happen at stop signs. That's inefficiency. 

BuckBucky
BuckBucky

@dmay1 @umasspaulc @d-may You have clearly never had to make a left turn on to Buckner after exiting 30 east. Or get on 30 east from Buckner going South.

Darren
Darren

@dmay1 @umasspaulc @d-may I disagree. 


First, people are notoriously bad about knowing who gets to proceed at a stop sign; they point at each other until somebody gets fed up and just goes. That process can take several seconds. And this is at intersections that have been stop signed for years.


Second, there is the time it takes for a car to get in gear, accelerate, and clear the intersection. At a normal stop light, once the line gets moving, it stays moving until the signal changes. At a stop sign, this happens for each individual direction of traffic for one line of cars at a time. It's inefficient.


Stop signs are not a solution.

Montemalone
Montemalone topcommenter

@Darren @dmay1 @umasspaulc @d-may

Just means there are a lot of people that shouldn't have been issued a license in the first place.

Rules state that when 2 vehicles arrive at a 4 way stop at the same time, the vehicle to the right has priority.

RTGolden1
RTGolden1 topcommenter

@Darren @dmay1 @umasspaulc @d-may Better yet, hire out of work performance artists to direct traffic at every intersection.


Entertaining, providing work and supporting the arts all in one fell swoop.

WhiteWhale
WhiteWhale

@Montemalone @Darren @dmay1 @umasspaulc @d-may Ever see what happens when you have a six lane road intersection with dual left turn lanes and a dedicated right turn lane.  Park and Preston is a real pucker up situation when the signal light fails.

wcvemail
wcvemail

@RTGolden1 

I'll see your performance artists ("out of work" is usually redundant) and raise you...
mimes.

Mimes directing traffic would also reduce noise pollution, as well as (studies will show) blood pressure and social tension. 

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