What #GamerGate and the Anti-Choice Movement Have in Common


A few months in, it appears that all hope is lost that #GamerGate was a temporary flare of misogyny. It’s now clear that it is a full-blown reactionary movement aimed at preserving male dominance—and ejecting any women who ask hard questions—in the world of video games.

As such, it’s time to start taking a broader look at what’s going on and to situate #GamerGate in the history of reactionary movements, particularly anti-feminist ones. Specifically, #GamerGate has a lot in common with the country’s largest and most long-lasting anti-feminist movement: the now four-decade-old war on women’s reproductive rights.

That #GamerGate is a classic, if quickly forming, reactionary campaign has been documented in a number of articles on the subject, most prominently by Jennifer Allaway at Jezebel and Kyle Wagner at Deadspin. Allaway used sociological research to show how #GamerGate works like a typical hate group. Similarly, Wagner explained that #GamerGate is driven by angry young white men who are threatened by demands that gaming be inclusive of women, people of color, and LGBTQ people, and who are lashing out in an attempt to keep the white male dominance they enjoy. In this, they are like every other reactionary movement:

The particulars may be different, and the stakes may be infinitely lower, but the dynamic is an old one, the same one that gave rise to the Know Nothing Party and the anti-busing movement and the Moral Majority.

Or the anti-choice movement. In fact, the parallels between the two are striking—which isn’t really a surprise, given that both are based in a particularly misogynist strain of reactionary politics. Like the anti-choice push, #GamerGate appears to be in it for the long haul, having only gained steam in the past two months. Despite the fact that #GamerGate often appears to “just” be about video games, it’s quickly shaping up to be a potent way for conservatives to reach out to previously apolitical young men and turn them into devoted, hardened misogynists.

And just as anti-choicers played a role in fueling movement conservatism over the past four decades, #GamerGate could very well help to create the next generation of opponents to women’s basic right to equality. Here are five ways in particular that #GamerGate bears chilling similarities to the anti-choice movement:

Origins. The genius of the anti-abortion movement was that it wed general conservative discontent with feminism to the lightning-rod issue of female sexuality and sexual independence. Women’s choice to have sex without “consequences” became the flashpoint of anger for people who were generally upset at seeing women increase their power and influence in the world.

Similarly, #GamerGate started by organizing a mostly male crowd that resents women’s unwillingness to quietly acquiesce to second-class status in the gaming world, and aimed this simmering anger directly at a game developer named Zoe Quinn, whose ex-boyfriend, Eron Gjoni, accused Quinn of cheating on him after she dumped him. The fury over female sexual independence has since been a major factor in the ongoing rage that is #GamerGate.

Facetious claims to the moral high ground. Both anti-choicers and #GamerGate supporters, however, realized that being really mad that women might have the same sexual liberties as men basically marked their movements as misogynist. And so it became important, early on, to deny publicly that this was about sex (while continuing to sexually disparage their targets) and paint themselves as moral crusaders. Anti-choicers decided to claim that they’re actually about preserving “life.” #GamerGaters, meanwhile, claim their goal is “ethics in gaming journalism.”

Both claims are laughably easy to pick apart. Unfortunately, though, both groups have been able to successfully bamboozle plenty of well-meaning people into thinking they are sincere—which is, of course, the reason for claiming the moral high ground that they don’t actually believe in.

Overwrought rhetoric. Because their central claims about themselves are dishonest, both anti-choicers and #GamerGaters tend to use the “hard sell” in pushing their claims to the moral high ground. That often leads to over-the-top self-aggrandizement and lurid, preposterous rhetoric about their “struggle.” Anti-choicers, for instance, like to make fallacious comparisons between themselves and the Civil Rights movement. They also accuse abortion doctors of “murder” and compare legal abortion to the Holocaust.

As far as #GamerGaters go, well, here’s a typical example of some of their rhetoric:

Because an army of sociopathic feminist programmers and campaigners, abetted by achingly politically correct American tech bloggers, are terrorizing the entire community—lying, bullying and manipulating their way around the internet for profit and attention.

How are these sociopaths supposedly terrorizing gamers? By making videos no one is forced to watch that point out that sometimes video games, like all other media, can be pretty sexist.

Harassment of individuals as a central organizing strategy. Anti-choicers have, for decades now, made harassment their central recruitment and visibility strategy, camping out at clinics to dish out abuse to staff and patients. For abortion providers, living under such a constant barrage, at home and at work, is just part of life. In some cases, abortion providers have been attacked or murdered.

#GamerGaters are showing an enthusiasm for similar tactics. Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and Brianna Wu are all women who have been subject to so much abuse and harassment that they’ve been driven from their homes. Though no one has been physically assaulted, to the best of our knowledge, Sarkeesian had to cancel a speaking engagement because of a terrorist threat.

The reason anti-choicers keep up the harassment—in the grand tradition of reactionary bad faith, they call it “sidewalk counseling”—is that it works. If the price of doing your job as a game developer or critic is being endlessly afraid, constantly browbeaten, and told day in and day out for hours on end that you are worthless and deserve to die, well, a lot of people aren’t going to pay it. That is clearly the hope of #GamerGate: to make gaming a space that’s safe for misogynists by making it incredibly unsafe for feminists.

Posturing as the protectors of the very people they hate. Of course, all this harassment reminds the public that you are a bunch of misogynists, and being known as a hateful bigot tends to erode your reputation in the public eye. So both anti-choicers and #GamerGate try to confuse the issue by accusing feminists of being the “real” woman-haters and posturing as the protectors of women. Anti-choicers claim that all women secretly want to have tons of babies all the time, and therefore need to have abortion taken away for their own good. Similarly, #GamerGaters created another hashtag called #NotYourShield to push the claim that feminists are exploiting women for their nefarious plots, and that only the anti-feminists in gaming are looking out for women’s interests.

A lot of people continue to be confused about what #GamerGate is, and whether it’s a well-intentioned movement spoiled by haters or actually a reactionary hate movement. It is definitely the latter, and hopefully the parallels with the similarly disingenuous anti-choice movement will make that fact a little easier to understand. Fighting back against a diffuse, insincere faction of people isn’t easy—as anyone who opposes anti-choicers can confirm—but the first step is knowing exactly whom you’re dealing with.

Like this story? Your $10 tax-deductible contribution helps support our research, reporting, and analysis.

To schedule an interview with contact director of communications Rachel Perrone at rachel@rhrealitycheck.org.

Follow Amanda Marcotte on twitter: @amandamarcotte

  • fiona64

    Cue the MRA invasion in 3 … 2… 1 …

    • night porter

      Ayup.

    • DonnaDiva

      LOL. Dudebro one comment above you can’t seem to decide if being likened to anti-choicers is a good or bad thing. All he knows is he’s angry because bitches.

      • fiona64

        Right on cue.

  • m0r1arty

    Open comments?!?

    Unusual, I’ll have a read over and get back to you Amanda.

  • m0r1arty

    Hi Amanda, I suggest you look at the GamerGate group more closely. Yes it is true that misfortune by Zoe Quinn’s ex may have been the spark to light the fuel but the only objective of GamerGate is to have corruption within gaming journalism wiped out.

    Personally I think Anita Sarkeesian raises some really good questions and am looking forward to further videos from her which explores the tropes of women in video games and I think this has interested a lot of others too. For the record Anita has personally stated that she called off the talk at USU because she was unhappy with gun laws in that state. The police themselves have publicly stated there was no alert or evidence of foul play.

    There has been questionable conduct from members of both groups. I suggest taking any claims to the police and going with due process rather than further muddy the waters with gossip (Like the USU incident).

    GamerGate is open to a dialogue should you approach them. It is their mission to provide quality journalism within the gaming community for everyone, regardless of gender, sexuality, ethnicity, religious outlook or age.

    Google “KotakuInAction” and find their Reddit page if you want to find out more.

    • CT14

      Give me a break.

      Sarkeesian would not be a target if that were true, since she’s independently funded and not a paid game company shill.

      No one would know Zoe Quinn’s name if that were true, because Zoe Quinn is not a journalist. Nathan Grayson would be the one receiving the rape and death threats and be the subject of discussions of how to cause him to kill himself.

      There is no “both sides do it” comparison. One side is spewing absolute hate, was created in hate, and is all about hate. The other side simply makes videos or games that no one is forced to watch/play.

      • m0r1arty

        EXIF data from an image directed at Brianna Wu does make it seem as if some collusion may have taken place to appear as a target.

        I’m not saying there’s conspiracy tones to it, I’m just asking for everyone to keep an open mind on the matter.

    • Nessie

      Forgive me if refuse to trust an “accountability in gaming journalism” movement that makes death and rape threats.
      Cracked.com has posted at least two excellent articles on this subject. I highly recommend checking them out.

      • m0r1arty

        I’ve read them already thanks Nessie!

        Once the noise calms down the framework on which GamerGate was founded will still be in place – links as proof and all. Please, for a moment consider that the VAST majority of those in GamerGate aren’t against Anita, Zoe or any other women in the world. We like to play with people, not hate on them.

        • Nessie

          If the “vast majority of those in GamerGate aren’t against Anita, Zoe, or any other woman in the world”, why haven’t they driven out the sexist creeps, or switched to a different banner to promote their cause?

          • Ian Norton

            Wanting journalists to have integrity is irrelevant to sexism. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that wanting clean water is racist because racists also want clean water to drink. It doesn’t change the fact that the water is currently dirty nor does it discredit the call for clean water.

          • Arekushieru

            Uh, yes, it is, when you hold them to higher standards than you would male gamers. See, no one has ever accused a male gamer of the same thing that they accused Zoe of doing AFTER her game got positive reviews. Sorry, but, really, stop the mansplaining. Women are the ones who are on the receiving end of sexism. WE therefore have the right to define it.

          • Ian Norton

            I don’t care about Zoe. I care about Nathan Grayson and all the other writers that reviewed her “game” positively for reasons other than it being good. It doesn’t matter what those reasons are because they aren’t because the game is good.

          • DonnaDiva

            Are you fucking serious? You’re THIS worked up over fucking game ratings? Bullshit.

          • Ian Norton

            Gaming is my hobby. It is very important to me. I’ve also written for Planet Half-Life, reviewing community-made Half-Life mods, levels, etc. So, journalism is important to me. Is that so wrong?

          • Nessie

            It’s wrong when you start defending sexists physcopaths, and get all uppity when others call them out for being sexist physcopaths. I suggest finding a new hobby; or better yet, a life.

          • Ian Norton

            Wow. You don’t see the likeness between your hurtful language and the language used by actual sexists? I have not once defended “sexist physcopaths [sic]“.

            You’re obviously quite guilty of using straw man arguments and ad hominem against me. I won’t bother responding to you anymore if you’ve abandoned logical arguments.

          • Nessie

            You claim to care about gaming, and yet you identify as part of a movement that alianates and belittles over 45% of all gamers. Instead of driving these sexists out of your “movement”, you waste your time complaining and whining when people call out your “movement” for such unacceptable behavior.
            Another thing: if GamerGate truly is about “accountability in gaming journalism”, how come nobody had heard of it before this incident? Are you that bad at raising awareness?

          • Ian Norton
          • Nessie

            So even your fellow meme era admit that GamerGate is a farce. And you still haven’t answered any of my questions.

          • Ian Norton

            What do you mean that they admit that GamerGate is a farce? I don’t see such a thing.

            What question do you want me to address? The fact that a male indie developer hasn’t been accused of sleeping his way into good reviews and censorship of criticism?

            Do I really need to address that? Fine. There are less female video game journalists and even less gay males. Therefore, there’s much less opportunity for a man to trade sex to them. I could also speculate that perhaps the women that are journalists are less likely to let sex interfere with their professional lives, but I’m not a psychologist.

          • Nessie

            I asked you why you don’t switch to a different banner, since no one takes GamerGate seriously.
            I asked you why you waste your time whining at us, instead of driving out the assholes giving GamerGate a bad name.
            I asked you why no one heard of GamerGate before this mess, if it’s such an important advocacy group.
            I asked you for evidence of your accusations, which you never provided.
            Here’s a new one: if you care so much about “accountability in gaming journalism”, why are you bashing an independent game developer instead of the billion-dollar corporations that produce and publish the vast majority of games?
            Also: “accountability in gaming journalism”? What you call a “movement”, I call the whining of entitled teenagers and middle-aged men without real lives.

          • Ian Norton

            >I asked you why you don’t switch to a different banner, since no one takes GamerGate seriously.

            Because the trolls would follow and the guilty gaming websites would just do another smear campaign, resulting in the same narrative that it is misogynistic.

            >I asked you why you waste your time whining at us, instead of driving out the assholes giving GamerGate a bad name.

            I promise to argue with anyone who publicly says anything sexist, as I would normally anyway, GamerGate or not.

            >I asked you why no one heard of GamerGate before this mess, if it’s such an important advocacy group.

            Because we never had a name until Adam Baldwin came up with the hashtag “GamerGate”

            >I asked you for evidence of your accusations, which you never provided.

            I did, you must’ve not bothered to look.

            >if you care so much about “accountability in gaming journalism”, why are you bashing an independent game developer instead of the billion-dollar corporations that produce and publish the vast majority of games?

            None of us in GamerGate are interested in bashing game developers. They don’t have the same standards as journalists. They should do whatever they can to promote their game – it is the journalists’ responsibility to remain objective and unbiased, or at least disclose their biases before trying to slip it under the radar.

            >Also: “accountability in gaming journalism”? What you call a “movement”, I call the whining of entitled teenagers and middle-aged men without real lives.

            Many of us are not teenagers nor men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXXdgfKdE8M and we are all very devoted to our hobby. Gaming is inclusive, you should give some a try.

          • Nessie

            I do play video games on a regular basis. And if your so devoted to fighting sexism, why are you not doing that right now? And you admit that the only reason you don’t start another group is because you have a defeatist attitude. If your movement didn’t even have a name before GamerGate, then it clearly was never an important cause to begin with. You claim to support accountability on the journalists’ part, so where’s the journalist she’s reported to have slept with? Why does he get off clean? Again, if your hobby is that important to you, it’s proof that you have no life. So get lost, you dumb troll.

          • Ian Norton

            I fight sexism wherever I see it. As an atheist I am always debating anti-choice conservative bible-thumpers who think a fetus deserves more rights than a woman. That doesn’t mean I can’t care about other things, too.

            I wont start another group because there’s no reason to. GamerGate isn’t misogynistic, and independent trolls will use whatever they can to justify wreaking havoc. The gaming websites would just collude again to shape a narrative. So, it would be a pointless exercise that would only serve to risk losing steam in the cause.

            I could use the same argument against feminism, but I won’t because I know that the few extremist feminists don’t represent those who are actually for equality.

            You apparently won’t listen to me and would prefer to sling ad hominem attacks, but I’ll repeat it again for anyone else reading this. GamerGate is about journalistic integrity, not about a female game developer’s sexual choices. Specifically, Nathan Grayson does not get off clean at all: https://www.change.org/p/nick-denton-recognize-nathan-grayson-s-lack-of-journalistic-integrity

            A life is what you make of it. I get fulfillment out of enjoying video games, especially with my girlfriend. I don’t need your validation, all I need is to feel fulfilled.

          • DonnaDiva

            You watch your tone, Nessie!

          • Nessie

            I’ll watch my tone when he stops defending stalking and harassment on the basis of an ex’s grudge.

          • Ian Norton

            Again, when have I ever defended that? All I’ve claimed is that GamerGate isn’t what gaming websites are claiming it is about. Check out #NotYourShield.

          • DonnaDiva

            A critic isn’t a journalist. It’s someone offering an OPINION on something, one that you are under no obligation to agree with or even respect. There’s simply no rational basis for the astounding level of misogyny and hatred being directed by the GG mob at these women.

          • Arekushieru

            And, again, where is the same suspicion towards male gamers that have had their games reviewed positively by journalists? You see, as was reported by other sites, Zoe’s possible trade-in of sexual favours for positive reviews wasn’t mentioned until AFTER she received the positive reviews. But, yet, no male gamer has yet to be treated the exact same way. THAT’s suspicious in and of ITSELF.

          • Ian Norton

            How about all the controversy over Ubisoft (which hires both men and women) handing journalists free Nexus 7’s? Or when journalists attending the Games Media Awards were given a chance to win a PS3 by tweeting about a certain game and using a hashtag? Neither of those had anything to do with specifically females.

            Also, the positive reviews were suspicious because the game isn’t that good, and nobody was discussing a possible sex scandal until her ex-boyfriend came forward.

            Also, if you want to see a hated male game-developer, check out Phil Fish. Guy is a real dickwad and enjoys unanimous dislike from pretty much everyone. And he actually made a good game.

          • DonnaDiva

            What “sex scandal”? Christ this is getting increasingly absurd.

          • Ian Norton

            Edited to clarify.

          • Nessie

            If you truly support ” integrity in gaming journalism”, than leave GamerGate and create/join a different platform. No one will take you seriously if you ally yourselves with men who make graphic death and rape threats based on a groundless accusation.

          • Ian Norton

            GamerGate is not an invite-only group on Facebook. What makes you think we’re “allying” with them? What makes you think changing the name will stop the trolls from following?

            I’m not saying the threats are justified (they never are), however the accusations they rationalize their abuse with are not groundless. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that she is manipulative.

            Again, someone who is manipulative does not deserve to be threatened, but being threatened does not mean she is not manipulative.

          • Nessie

            As I said before: proof, or it never happened. Show me all this “evidence” you keep going on about.
            And are you saying it would be too difficult to create an invite-only group, or at least a group with a code of conduct, seperate from GamerGate? Or are you just too lazy?

          • Ian Norton

            I’m no leader, but if a group called “non-sexist GamerGate” pops up I’ll consider labeling myself a part of it.

            As for evidence, check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-51PfwI3M&src_vid=9rTFDhVmnUE&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_895102433

            There’s a ton more info here: (including evidence that she made up the Wizardchan raid in order to get exposure) http://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/2dylh4/psa_the_zoe_quinn_conspiracy_and_its_implications/

          • Nessie

            Why don’t you create this group yourself? Or for that matter, why don’t you go criticize the people who gave your precious “movement” a bad name, instead of the people working to combat the very-real problem of sexism in gaming?

          • Ian Norton

            You’re attacking GamerGate, of which I consider myself a proponent of, so I am defending it. I do decry sexism whenever it is presented to me, but there’s really no prevalent public voice of GamerGate that is explicitly or implicitly sexist. There are only private threats that I cannot directly challenge.

            Show me an up-voted, popular GamerGate comment about Zoe Quinn that is sexist. I don’t see any at first glance.

          • Nessie

            If you don’t see the sexism in GamerGate, then you have been living under a rock.
            And again: why aren’t you attacking the sexist who are giving your precious “movement” a bad name, instead of the people calling out GamerGate for its sexism?

          • Ian Norton

            >why aren’t you attacking the sexist who are giving your precious “movement” a bad name

            Examples, please? Or are you talking about the supposed death and rape threats that I’ve already decried multiple times on this site?

          • draconian139

            How do you drive people out of a hashtag? Honest question, I’d love a solution to this problem. The ones that actually go far enough to break twitter’s ToS are reported immediately. As far as getting a new hashtag the trolls would simply follow.

          • Jerry Samous

            Firstly how do they drive off all “the sexist creeps”
            and secondly whats to stop those “the sexist creeps” from latching to the new banner

          • Nessie

            Harass them, publish their addresses, ban them from forums, ext. you have no excuse for not trying.

        • L-dan

          Honestly, I doubt that. Folks actually interested in ethics in gaming journalism would do well to pick up a new name and put some distance between themselves and the Gamergate crowd. Every manifesto, or “here’s what we’re about” that I’ve seen for them comes across poorly. Granted, I’m not digging that far. But that’s sort of the point. If the loudest voices are basically reading like “we’re sick of people doing feminist, LGBT, race-based, etc. critique of games.Stop doing that!” it’s hard to ever get out the message that it’s about anything worthwhile.

          • Ian Norton

            >Folks actually interested in ethics in gaming journalism would do well to pick up a new name and put some distance between themselves and the Gamergate crowd

            So what then? The trolls will follow it and send threats anyway, and the gaming journalists will just band together to portray us as sexist in order to discredit us again.

      • draconian139

        We’ve decried anyone that makes any kind of threat and have always done this. Some of us have even tracked down an individual that is often sending Anita Sarkeesian rape threats and death threats over twitter through bating them into clicking something to get his IP and sending the guy who we had a suspicion that it was an email with similar bait to confirm said suspicions.. Unfortunately he’s a journalist in Brazil so its difficult for the authorities to do anything . Twitter also sucks and doesn’t have anything in place to prevent a user from simply remaking an account after one is banned(not even an IP ban) so he just keeps remaking the account to link to his website for ad revenue.

        • Magicthighs

          So why use twitter? What do you think you’re going to accomplish there by using a hashtag and posting 140 character messages anyway?

          • draconian139

            Good question, a lot never use the hashtag and simply stay on their normal internet communities. They still support by doing emails to advertising partners and digging into past actions by these sites.

            Twitter does have its benefits though, which I never thought I’d say as I’m someone who really dislikes its setup, particularly the character limit. For one its a neutral platform to communicate on as most of those involved are from vastly different internet communities: tumblr, ∞chan, and reddit are the big ones and a new site wouldn’t be able to handle the traffic. Its also a platform that a lot of mainstream people use so for every segment that’s run against us there’s an opportunity to speak to people who check things out for themselves to present our side.

            The increasing coverage has been a net benefit for us. By using the hashtag in segments over the air the media has essentially advertised a place for anyone curious to check out what we’re actually saying and doing. Those who do quickly see that our targets are the websites. With every burst of coverage we’ve seen a spike in activity followed by a decrease to a level that is above the previous norm.

            The most recent thing that has been uncovered is a situation in 2013 where a writer named Allistar Pinsof from Destructoid was fired over running a piece that he had concerns over but his boss approved and told him to go ahead and run. Those in the Game Journo Pros mailing list(many competitors of Destructoid) put pressure on Destructoid to fire the man anyways and Destructoid did so, they also appear to have blacklisted him from working at other companies which is illegal in both Florida and California(locations of sites in question). Destructoid’s EIC stepped down a couple days ago and people are looking into how to take this to the courts.

            http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/10/gamergate-destructoid-corruption-and-ruined-careers/

        • John H

          Then why the duck did you decide to rally behind a hashtag created by an idiot Right-wing actor who was decrying a fabricated sex scandal? If I’m worried about academic corruption, I don’t suddenly decide it’s a good idea to start identifying as a member of the KKK becasue they oppose affirmative action in college admissions. And I don’t do it after three decades of silence on the very real corruption that exists: in this case, the collusion between massive publishers and a gaming press that has mostly operated as a marketing department for them.

          If you want people to take you seriously and not associate you with people making threats, you might want to actualyl disassociate from the people making threats who formed the group in which you’re claiming membership and instead form a separate group that isn’t and never was about harassment. Otherwise, duck the duck off.

    • Amanda Marcotte

      Hey, I recommend you look at my extensive writing and research on this topic more closely before suggesting I don’t know what I’m talking about. This is a good primer that shows how empty and disingenuous the claims to be about ethics are:

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/gamergate-is-an-attack-on-ethical-journalism/

      I’m afraid that if you’re going to ask me to read more, you should actually read the article you’re criticizing instead of offering what appears to be a copy/paste comment that doesn’t really address any points offered in the article and actually performs some of the behaviors called out in the article.

      • m0r1arty

        Sorry Amanda I’m not buying into black-and-white thinking.

        I witnessed events and saw how various communities dealt with them.

        If that makes me a rapist, misogynist or wrong then so be it. I just don’t hold those labels in a fickle regard where they get thrown about liberally.

        We might disagree at a fundamental level but I appreciate your opinion and your right to voice it.

        I’m not sure how to put it without sounding crass but I enjoy your writing style very much.

        • http://jupitaur.wordpress.com/ jupitaur

          Who says your comments make you a rapist? Boy, talk about getting hysterical! Er, testerical, more likely.

        • Arekushieru

          You have a name that suggests you are male, so I will point you to the first comment I made in regards to this, to Ian. YOU do not get to decide what sexism is.

          • Ian Norton

            I have a sex, therefore I am entitled to decide what I think is sexist and what I think isn’t. I am arguing my points, not dictating what you have to believe.

          • Arekushieru

            No, sexism affects women, not men. You really need to read up on what sexism and misogyny mean, before you can begin to even argue that you are supporting your points factually, let alone proving your point, btw.

          • Ian Norton

            Hahaha, are you kidding me? Sexism is, quite literally, stereotyping, prejudice, or discrimination on the basis of sex. I will agree that the vast majority of sexism is against women, but to suggest that men are immune to it is absolutely absurd.

            Assuming that I like football because I’m a man is one example of sexism that I have personally experienced. It’s stereotyping on the basis of my gender. A harmless example, but an example nonetheless.

            Anyway, you are drifting from the point. If you say that apples are sexist, I do have a right to disagree and argue why I think they aren’t. Because they’re just apples, obviously.

            Your argument is what matters, not your gender.

          • Aric Hewlett

            “No, sexism affects women, not men.” Lol, really? Men cannot be discriminated against for being a man? I suggest you think long and hard before trying to defend that statement. Personally I think misandry is more common in the western world than misogyny, while I cannot prove that I can prove sexism definately happens towards men.

          • Arekushieru

            I see you, too, like most MRAssholes, lack reading comprehension. I SAID that there was discrimination against men. But sexism and misogyny are Cultural phenomena. The same thing is necessary for misandry to occur. It does not, so there is no such thing. Let me put it in simple terms so that even YOU can understand. Men are punished for being like women. So, in order for men to benefit, they are taught to NOT act like women or as far from the perceived gender roles of women, as possible. EVERYTHING a man does flows from that. It does not mean there is no discrimination against men. But NEITHER does it mean there is more discrimination against men than women. There is actually more discrimination against women, and women, UNLIKE men, are not allowed to profit from it. What YOU perceive as discrimination against men, is actually men being prevented from discriminating against women. TBSVFS.

          • fiona64

            Sexism is institutional, not individual. I suggest you think about that. In a world where the privilege ladder was created by white men, for white men, sexism is rampant.

            Personally I think misandry is more common in the western world than misogyny,

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

          • Jerry Samous

            any proof to that claim?

            here’s my claim

            Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person’s sex or gender.Sexist attitudes may stem from traditional stereotypes of gender roles, and may include the belief that a person of one sex is intrinsically superior to a person of the other. A job applicant may face discriminatory hiring practices, or (if hired) receive unequal compensation or treatment compared to that of their opposite-sex peers.Extreme sexism may foster sexual harassment, rape and other forms of sexual violence.

            and here’s sources to back up that claim

            “Sexism – Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary”. Merriam-webster.com. August 31, 2012. Retrieved July 20, 2013.

            Matsumoto, 2001. P.197.

            Nakdimen KA The American Journal of Psychiatry [1984, 141(4):499-503]

            Doob, Christopher B. 2013. Social Inequality and Social Stratification in US Society. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Pearson Education, Inc.

            Macionis, Gerber, John, Linda (2010). Sociology 7th Canadian Ed. Toronto, Ontario: Pearson Canada Inc.. pp. 298.

            Forcible Rape Institutionalized Sexism in the Criminal Justice System| Gerald D. Robin Division of Criminal Justice, University of New Haven

          • fiona64
          • Jerry Samous

            I’m sorry but your one non peer reviewed piece doesn’t trumps my six peer reviewed one’s, on mine there are journals of psychiatry, yours doesn’t even have the author of the piece listed so for all I know it could written by anyone

          • fiona64

            You need to stop drinking from the AVfM well, sweetie.

  • John Skinner

    LOL! Leave it to leftists to compare #GamerGate to people who don’t want to kill babies. This is a stretch even for the anti-life crowd.

    • blfdjlj

      People who want to kill babies? Are you referring to ISIS here? Or to the Crusades?

      • John Skinner

        Nope I’m referring to anti-life, pro-abortion liberals obviously. Duh!

        • Arekushieru

          As I pointed out above, YOU are the anti-lifer, pro-abortion CONSERVATIVES. At least Liberals aren’t inherently misogynists, classists, racists, etc….

        • HeilMary1

          How about anti-abortion Litter Sister Sosefina Amoa who smothered her “surprise” newborn to keep her nun gig and U.S. green card?

        • Ramanusia

          Liberals aren’t anti-life or pro-abortion, this is the right wing anti-choice nut jobs. When seek to deny health care to women, you’re anti-life, when you choose to oppose access and education on contraception, you’re pro-abortion. When you, as a right wing nut job deny your misogyny and your pro-death stance, you’re just a liar.

    • fiona64

      If you know of anyone who is killing babies, contact law enforcement. Infanticide is a crime.

      • John Skinner

        Yes it is. And don’t you worry, us pro-lifers are going to but infanticide to an end.

        • Arekushieru

          Nope, you’re going to create more Gosnells and more instances of infanticide. China? Is a Pro-‘life’ country and many girls were killed, abandoned or starved, AFTER birth. DARN, eh?

          YOU are the true pro-aborts. Denying women access to contraception and comprehensive sex ed that would actually reduce the rates of abortion.

          A woman deserves the same rights as everyone else. But YOU want to grant a fetus more rights than anyone born. AND you want to kill women via pregnancy, the third leading cause of death worldwide. Such sad, pathetic and disgusting creatures you are, that you make your hatred of women so obvious.

          • John Skinner

            “At least Liberals aren’t inherently misogynists, classists, racists, etc….” lol name calling, really? None of these are issues related to abortion. Plus if your gonna go the racist route then I should remind you that more black babies are aborted every year than born. So by supporting abortion your supporting black genocide. So who’s the real racist here. Not surprising considering the democratic party spawned the KKK.

          • Ian Norton

            Why draw the line at conception? Why not draw it sooner at the nutsack? You should be trying to put me in jail for my daily genocide.

            Hell, every month a girl spends not pregnant should be criminalized since an egg goes to waste.

            Until a certain stage in pregnancy, a fetus is no more human than a growth on the skin is human. Removing it does not cause any harm and may even be beneficial to the host, and there is no death other than the human cells that were removed. What exactly is the difference? If it’s the potential for human life you are concerned about, see my above sarcastic remarks.

          • John Skinner

            > Implying that gametes and zygotes are the same thing.
            Seriously did you even take high school biology?

          • Ramanusia

            Did you take high school biology or English, since you blatantly state that zygotes and 1 month olds are the same thing?

          • Arekushieru

            Sorry, but gametes and zygotes have more similarities than a fetus and actual infant have. Also, a fetus goes through a LOT more changes to become an extant infant than a gamete does to become a zygote. The LATTER case is TRULY one where we could ask why does something transform from human life at mere moments before fertilization to a human being mere moments AFTER fertilization, especially CONSIDERING the comparatively MAJOR changes a fetus undergoes to become a live, EXTANT infant.

            So, yes, Ian is far more right than YOU’LL ever be and he has a lot less to learn on biology than you ever will, even you kept reading to the end of your life. TBSVFS.

          • John Skinner

            At a genetic level zygotes and gametes are very different. It
            takes 46 chromosomes to make a human, 23 from the mother and 23 from the father. When the gametes join together it creates a zygote complete with its own unique DNA different from that of a parents. So yes they are extremely different from each other.

          • Arekushieru

            No, they’re not. A gamete has 46 chromosomes just like a zygote. Why do you think they have to undergo meiosis and mitosis? Hmm? SOMEONE failed biology. And those 46 chromosomes are ALSO unique for the exact same reason you claim the egg is unique. So fucking contradictory you people are.

          • John Skinner

            Are you sure that’s your final answer?

            Cuz I have to disagree: http://www.livescience.com/27248-chromosomes.html

            So yeaaaah, not only were you wrong but you also kinda made an ass of yourself. Way to go!

          • Arekushieru

            Uh, then you just made an ass of YOURself. Because that also made you wrong! Cause a zygote is no more than an egg and sperm combined. Oops? I have a reason to be confused, especially when I’m trying talk down to your level, but YOU’RE the one who first made the unfactual statement, ASS.

          • John Skinner

            Like I said a Zygote has “unique” DNA that different from the parents and “is the earliest developmental stage of an embryo”. So no its not just “an egg and sperm combined” I also noticed that your trying to draw attention away from your little mistake but don’t worry, I caught it and helped you fix it. ;D

            “ASS” you sound angry, perhaps you should calm down a bit.

          • night porter

            So?

          • fiona64

            Dude, we may not agree on much else, but I thank you for this statement.

          • Ian Norton

            I think the only thing we disagree on is what GamerGate is actually about. You’ve accepted the narrative painted by people who would benefit from us being discredited; gaming journalists.

            I’ve stated it before, I’m a pro-choice feminist liberal.

          • fiona64

            WRT to GG, I still ask: why is your beef with Zoe Quinn and not the journalists, if you are really about journalistic integrity? It’s possible that you have answered already and I have not seen it, but it seems that you are focusing in the wrong place.

          • Nessie

            The reason why abortion rates are higher in black communities is because black people are still more likely to be poor, and less likely to have access to contraception. The same people fighting for improved access to abortion are also fighting for better education(especially Comprehensive Sex Education), improved healthcare(including prenatal care), and increased availability of contraception. The true sexists are people like you who use black people as pawns for their facisist agenda while ignoring(and often worsening)the problems faced by living black people every day.

          • John Skinner

            “The true sexists are people like you who use black people as pawns for their facisist agenda while ignoring(and often worsening)the problems faced by living black people every day.”

            http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Now-Comes-The-Part-Where-We-Throw-Our-Heads-Back-In-Laughter-In-George-Of-The-Jungle.gif

          • Nessie

            What does a stupid GIF have to do with anything? Do you not have an actual reply?

          • John Skinner

            > I was implying what you said was funny since that’s exactly what liberal do.

          • Nessie

            More people might take you seriously if you bothered to use proper grammar.

          • John Skinner

            > Implying you need to use proper grammar on the internet.

          • Ramanusia

            So you failed English, is that what your incoherent gibberish demonstrates?

          • fiona64

            More proof for my hypothesis that the anti-choice are almost all functionally illiterate …

          • John Skinner

            Yes, I’m illiterate since I talk the same as almost anyone on the internet.

          • fiona64

            Keep doubling down on the stupid; it helps expose the anti-choice position for what it really is.

          • Ramanusia

            Is that a gif that your fellow kkklansmen like to use?

          • catseye

            Says an obvious man, most likely white. African-American women are overwhelmingly pro-reproductive justice, because they can never lose sight of the fact that their great-grandmothers were bred like cattle.

          • fiona64

            Oh, now I get it. You’re a Teabircher.

            I can now ignore anything you say, because I’m confident that it will be nothing but bullshit.

          • Arekushieru

            Uh, yes, if you had reading comprehension skills you would understand why making abortion illegal has EVERYTHING to do with misogyny. Btw, it isn’t an insult if it’s the truth. And YOUR (actual) insults to women are by FAR more harmful than any ‘insult’ we could turn on your ilk. The fact that you’re here tone-trolling just because we only hurt your pwecious widdle manwy feewings, proves what a misogynist you are.

            Also, read up on the history of YOUR country (United States) rather than relying on a CANADIAN to tell you the bare facts. Namely that the democratic party that spawned the KKK had political ties to the CONSERVATIVES of the present, NOT the democratic party. AW.

            Also, not only are citations needed for more black FETUSES being aborted rather than born, but an understanding of the term genocide is also apparently required.

            For one thing, who do you think is having these abortions, white surrogates or, perhaps, BLACK WOMEN, THEMSELVES???? These women aren’t somehow being targeted by invisible stealth placards that brainwash them into visiting the clinic. After all, the only signs they see from clinics like Planned Parenthood are a list of their services and whether that includes abortion services or abortion referrals. Meaning these women are deciding for THEMSELVES whether or not they want to terminate their pregnancies. Which, by extension, means that you are accusing BLACK women of perpetuating a genocide against their own race. But the fact that you deny that black women can have the same rights as everyone else is what makes YOU the racist.

            For another, that last is also what makes you a CLASSIST. Considering that people of colour make up the majority of poor minorities, and it is your political Pro-‘life’ counterparts that typically slash funding to social programs that support poor single women and their families, then put barriers to accessing contraception and comprehensive sex ed in place, THEN turn around and call these same women ‘welfare queens’ because they keep popping out babies thereby ‘extending’ and ‘increasing’ their benefits (although not actually, considering that with every child the costs increase EXPONENTIALLY, but with each subsequent ‘payout’ the benefits that were only mere FRACTION of the original benefits, at BEST, decrease even FURTHER), THEN blame them for being unable to turn their lives around, ALL THE WHILE, ignoring that lack of access to contraception and comprehensive sex ed and the increased birth rates, in general, among black women are what cause the higher rates of abortion AS WELL AS contributing to their increased likelihood to require access to these selfsame supports, in the first place.

            So, in conclusion, a misogynist, racist AND classist, AS I said, earlier. Darn, eh? Don’t you just HATE it when your ilk is proven wrong?

          • John Skinner

            1: “The fact that
            you’re here tone-trolling just because we only hurt your pwecious widdle manwy
            feewings, proves what a misogynist you are.”

            >Implying I care what feminist nutjobs think. Don’t
            forget this article was about gamersgate and you people attacking it with fallacies

            2. “Also, read up on
            the history of YOUR country (United States) rather than relying on a CANADIAN
            to tell you the bare facts.”

            Funny you mention this because I am Canadian and I know for
            a fact that we present a much more unbiased view on American history.

            3. “Also, not only are citations needed for more black
            FETUSES being aborted rather than born, but an understanding of the term
            genocide is also apparently required.”

            OK here you go: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2565169/Abortions-outnumber-live-births-NYCs-black-community.html Genocide:
            The deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular
            ethnic group or nation. synonyms: mass murder,
            mass homicide, massacre etc.

            4. “For one thing, who do you think is having these
            abortions, white surrogates or, perhaps, BLACK WOMEN, THEMSELVES???? These
            women aren’t somehow being targeted by invisible stealth placards that
            brainwash them into visiting the clinic.”

            Well with all the liberal anti-life propaganda they might as
            well.

            5. “After all, the only signs they see from clinics like
            Planned Parenthood are a list of their services and whether that includes
            abortion services or abortion referrals. Meaning these women are deciding for
            THEMSELVES whether or not they want to terminate their pregnancies. Which, by
            extension, means that you are accusing BLACK women of perpetuating a genocide
            against their own race.”

            Again, who do you think is encouraging them to have abortions
            or that it’s alright? Have we forgotten the origins of Planned Parenthood? : http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d6UxhSBlPNM/UHOBIOOWK9I/AAAAAAAAJdo/0AZnrbVUwSU/s1600/margaret+sanger.jpg

            6: “But the fact that you deny that black women can have the
            same rights as everyone else is what makes YOU the racist.”

            How can it be racist if I don’t believe in abortions for
            anyone? If I said that blacks should have abortions but not whites that would
            be racist.

            7. “For another, that last is also what makes you a
            CLASSIST. Considering that people of colour make up the majority of poor
            minorities, and it is your political Pro-‘life’ counterparts that typically
            slash funding to social programs that support poor single women and their
            families, then put barriers to accessing contraception and comprehensive sex ed
            in place, THEN turn around and call these same women ‘welfare queens’ because
            they keep popping out babies thereby ‘extending’ and ‘increasing’ their
            benefits (although not actually, considering that with every child the costs
            increase EXPONENTIALLY, but with each subsequent ‘payout’ the benefits that
            were only mere FRACTION of the original benefits, at BEST, decrease even
            FURTHER), THEN blame them for being unable to turn their lives around, ALL THE
            WHILE, ignoring that lack of access to contraception and comprehensive sex ed
            and the increased birth rates, in general, among black women are what cause the
            higher rates of abortion AS WELL AS contributing to their increased likelihood
            to require access to these selfsame supports, in the first place.”

            Ummm has a conservative ever tried to stop the sale of
            contraceptives? Do we stop certain organizations
            from giving them away for free? No we don’t, we just don’t think taxpayers
            should pay for them. Contraceptives are cheap and easy to come by in the west so
            people have no excuse. When it comes to sex-ed yes there is a time for it but
            not for children when they’re extremely young and not teaching about extreme
            sexual acts. It’s the way you present sex-ed is what we don’t like.

            8. “So, in conclusion, a misogynist, racist AND classist, AS
            I said, earlier. Darn, eh? Don’t you just HATE it when your ilk is proven
            wrong?”

            Declaring you won an argument doesn’t make it so.

          • fiona64

            No, actually, it was about how both GamerGate and the anti-choice movement are misogynistic and reactionary. And you’re doing a fabulous job of proving Amanda right.

          • Ramanusia

            Actually, your misogyny is very much at play in the abortion debate, as is your classism and your racism.

            Actually, no baby can literally ever be aborted, so your silly claim is just idiotic. A baby, by definition is born, thus cannot be aborted.

            By supporting a woman’s right to choose, you’re fighting against slavery. There is no genocide, just you and your fellow KKK ers (who are very much a part of the GOP, just ask your grand wizard David Duke), who wish to enslave women, particularly black women (since you believe your own lies).

            Not surprising, since the GOP has been the loving home of the KKK since the racists fled the Democratic party to hole up with those whose party platform and every utterance shows why the KKK is so very at home with the GOP.

        • catseye

          There IS NO “INFANTICIDE”. Infants, by SCIENTIFIC definition, are BORN.

        • fiona64

          You don’t seem to be too clear about what infanticide is …

          • Ramanusia

            He’s not good on what a lot of words mean.

        • Ramanusia

          No, you’re not. Infanticide is the killing of born babies between the age of one month to 2 months after birth. You anti-choicers are all about trying to deny women access to reproductive freedom by denying them access to contraception and abortion, by forcing gestation. In every instance when wrong headed idiots do this, what you get is a rise in maternal mortality and a rise in infant mortality. What happens when you force a rape victim to give birth against her will? Nothing that promotes the life the infant that results.

          You’re not only anti-life, you are pro-infanticide, and actually pro-neonaticide, since these are the women who kill their newborns by letting them drown in toilets and in dumpster.

    • John H

      Does this count as Lewis’s Law? It is certainly a demonstration of the thesis of the article.

    • Jennifer Starr

      No one’s talking about killing babies.

  • Ian Norton

    GamerGate is about journalistic integrity, specifically in game journalism. It has nothing to do with gender other than the spark being Zoe Quinn sleeping with reviewers who then did not disclose their relationship before reviewing her game. If all the reviewers were gay and Zoe was a man, it would not have been any different (other than the trolls using different nasty words).

    How you could be against journalistic integrity and for corruption boggles my mind. Zoe Quinn slept with specific people for specific reasons, but it’s not her we’re angry at. It’s the writers who did not recuse themselves from writing reviews of her game after sleeping with her that we are upset with.

    I am a feminist, pro-choice, GamerGate-supporting atheist, and you’ve got it all wrong.

    • Nessie

      What proof do you have that Zoe did any of the things your accusing her of? And even if you did those things, does that justify threats and stalking?
      If you want to prove that you’re sexist, I suggest that you focus on driving the sexists out of your movement before whining about “Oh, we’re not all sexist”.

      • Ian Norton

        No proof, but there’s a lot of evidence. Even if they weren’t having sex it is quite apparent that they were biased in their review of her game Depression Quest. There was evidence that the journalists were funding her game development through Patreon (which is a huge problem for journalistic integrity). There was also mass censorship on the topic in her favor on all of the sites accused.

        Nothing justifies death threats and stalking.

        Megamatics in a comment below shows a video of a pro-choice woman going ham on pro-life protesters. Does this behavior discredit the pro-choice movement? I don’t think so. If the KKK came out pro-choice (hypothetically of course, they are a religious organization after all), would that make being pro-choice immoral? Would being pro-choice become racist? Of course not.

        • fiona64

          No proof, but there’s a lot of evidence

          Do you not even recognize the contradictory nature of this statement?

        • Arekushieru

          As opposed to the more widespread censorship on topics NOT in her favour across the gaming community entire?

          • Ian Norton

            Like what? I’ve seen the reddit pages with line after line of mod-deleted comments. Right after reading r/gaming mods tweeting with Zoe asking to establish private communication.

          • Arekushieru

            Again, Reddit pages and whatnot regularly shut down opposition to the misogyny of gamer culture more frequently than opposition to people like Zoe and Anita Sarkeesian. That’s only two examples from that side compared to, at least, almost thousands on the other side.

        • Nessie

          And where is this “evidence”? Proof, or it didn’t happen.

          • Jerry Samous

            From Stephen Totilo “He quoted blog posts written by Zoe and others involved in the show. Shortly after that, in early April, Nathan and Zoe began a romantic relationship.”

          • Nessie

            Even if that is true, does that justify death and rape threats? And why is Zoe the only one of the duo taking any heat?
            Cracked. com has an article titled “Why GamerGate proves humanity is doomed”. Give it a read, and then we can talk.

          • Jerry Samous

            sheesh first I have to find evidence now I have to read a article on a joke site just so we can have a conversation

            7 or the first point is all opinion and no evidence, I don’t know what you want me to take from this point

            6 or second point still just an opinion on the porn of Vivian James, i still don’t know what you want me to take from this, condemn everyone that creates porn?

            5 or point 3 some guy tried to scam people, My gut instinct for that indiegogo is just an attempt at a cash grab riding off of the recent drama

            4 point ( i’m just going with it like this now)trolls are being trolls,heck its just a statement with no evidence

            3 again a statement no evidence

            2 no evidence once again and now I’m starting to doubt his journalistic skills because I spent a few minutes and bada bing bada boom

            http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284

            1 wow another opinion with no evidence, saying that the harassment was caused by gamergate without any evidence is disingenuous.

            so what was that article supposed to prove?

          • fiona64

            You are really determined to prove the people right who say GG is all about misogyny, aren’t you?

          • Jerry Samous

            how have i proved that, what just because i demand evidence I am promoting misogyny?

          • fiona64

            I have read the article, and you are taking that quote so far out of context that it may as well be on another planet. He mentioned the *failed TV show,* not the game. He never mentioned the game whatsoever, not even in passing.

            And by your own quote, Nathan and Zoe did not begin the relationship until AFTER that.

          • Jerry Samous

            http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284

            to quote Nathan Grayson

            “According to a report on Indie Statik (and corroborating testimonials from Depression Quest creator Zoe Quinn,”

            so yeah ” He never mentioned the game whatsoever, not even in passing.” is bullshit so now I’m starting to question if your being dishonest on purpose or not

            secondly a romantic relationship started after could mean that he wrote the review first than slept with her for it, meaning that he got payment(not in monetary value) after the deed was done, even then romantic relationships don’t begin out of nowhere he must have know her for a while before as a friend, and even as friends that is unethical

          • fiona64

            secondly a romantic relationship started after could mean that he wrote
            the review first than slept with her for it, meaning that he got
            payment(not in monetary value) after the deed was done

            I suggest you loosen up that tinfoil beanie.

    • http://jupitaur.wordpress.com/ jupitaur

      “Zoe Quinn sleeping with reviewers who then did not disclose their relationship before reviewing her game”

      This did not happen.

      ” it’s not her we’re angry at. It’s the writers who did not recuse themselves from writing reviews of her game after sleeping with her that we are upset with.”

      You have a funny way of showing it. You don’t even bother to name those horrible, terrible, no-good unethical writers (interesting now you’re claiming she slept with several of them to get those many good reviews! I guess I better not review her game positively or you’ll know I slept with her, too).

    • fiona64

      Zoe Quinn sleeping with reviewers who then did not disclose their relationship before reviewing her game

      And who, exactly, alleged that this was true?

      • Ian Norton

        Her ex-boyfriend. One of the accused was Nathan Grayson, wrote for Rock Paper Shotgun and now writes for Kotaku. He has published positive articles on her and her game.

        • Nessie

          One person, with an obvious grudge against her. Anyone who considers him an impartial, reputable source-much less basis for rape and murder threats-is an idiot.

          • Ian Norton

            That’s definitely a possibility that he lied, it’s just not likely. There are pictures of Grayson and Quinn hanging out in a bed together before his article was written. If that’s not damning I’m not sure what is.

          • fiona64

            Someone could take a picture of me sitting on a bed with someone else; it would not mean I had sex with that other party. Criminy.

          • Michael Lindsay

            Wow, other people’s sex lives are really fascinating to you aren’t they. I also note how much stock you put in the rant of a jilted ex lover. Aren’t you the ones who scream “bias” all over the shop when you see a review you don’t like?

          • Sean N.

            Just because he was jilted doesn’t make his statements factually inaccurate, especially when they were validated by both Quinn and the journalists in question, after the fact. But I like your disingenuous use of “logic”; the hallmark of the pseudo-intellectual.

          • Sean N.

            No claimed he was impartial. He was giving his side of the story. Except his side of the story were accusations of inappropriate conduct that were then VALIDATED.

        • L-dan

          And…why was all the attention directed as Zoe Quinn instead of Nathan Grayson? Why would you expect the developer, instead of the actual journalist, to be the one practicing journalistic ethics?

          I’ve been waiting to hear some actual examples of how Gamergate is pushing for actual ethics in journalism and haven’t yet.

          • Ian Norton

            We are more focused on the entirety of gaming journalism and its apparent corruption. Multiple sites colluded to come up with a single narrative and all published similar opinion pieces that condemned and generalized gamers. Someone leaked the gamejournopro group emails revealing this.

            GamerGate has convinced Intel to pull their advertisements off of the gaming website Gamasutra. There are other smaller victories but this is the best example.

            Quick summary of GamerGate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipcWm4B3EU4

          • L-dan

            So several people write opinion pieces about sexism in the gaming industry and among gamers, and that’s what’s getting things boycotted? Not the tendency to buy good reviews for triple-A games? Not the fact that places like Gamasutra *shouldn’t* actually allow Intel pulling advertising to affect their journalism? (I wouldn’t be surprised if they *do* allow it to affect their journalism since they need to pay bills, but that’s basically the opposite of journalistic integrity.)

            I’m thinking that someone’s idea of ‘ethics’ is a bit squirrely. Following through a brief few of the articles linked to beneath the video looks like the articles were a reaction specifically to the Zoe Quinn harassment; which, even if she did sleep with someone for a positive review, hardly warrants the level of harassment she received. They draw on that, the ongoing harassment aimed at Anita Sarkeesian, and generally toxic nonsense that keeps cropping up. In other words, there are loud, sexist, horrible elements in gaming (like pretty much everywhere), but there’s no reason whatsoever that developers should be catering to the people being loud and horrible. How is that very far off from the Gamergate people going “yeah, we keep reporting the Gamergaters we spot who are assholes, because that’s bad.” Isn’t that the same damn thing? i.e. the loud, harassing, jerks are the actual enemy?

            Seriously, convincing Intel to pull ads because people felt insulted that a site published a piece saying ‘gamer harassment is shitty, and we shouldn’t be catering to those jerks or creating a culture that supports them,’ really doesn’t look like the actions of a group interested in the common definition of ethics.

          • Michael Lindsay

            “Corruption” when used by a Gamergater does not have it’s dictionary meaning, these people seriously thought that Polygon’s overall positive review of Bayonetta was unethical because the reviewer mentioned in passing that Bayonetta’s most devastating combat move involved her all her clothes flying off. The reviewer still called it a great game and gave it a 7.5 score which is pretty darn shiny-but Gamergate saw a nonexistent rat. They were convinced that the review was inherently corrupted by the reviewer saying out loud that exploding clothes on a female protagonist could be seen as sexist, maybe.

        • fiona64

          If he was no longer her boyfriend, what difference does it make if he liked the game?

          • Ian Norton

            Sorry, I didn’t explain properly. Her ex-boyfriend is the one who revealed that she had cheated on him with Nathan Grayson, who went on to write positive things about her game.

          • fiona64

            And I edited the comment while you were replying, just to add to the confusion. :-/ I do still wonder why your ire is not directed at Grayson, though, if your real concern is with journalistic integrity.

          • Ian Norton

            My ire is directed at everyone who painted the narrative that male gamers are all sexist – there is a full list somewhere of each gaming website guilty of this.

            I am not mad at Zoe at all. She can have sex with whoever she wants to, but if they’re games journalists, the journalists better refrain from reviewing her game, and the sites hiring them to write should fire those who don’t recuse themselves.

          • Arekushieru

            No one is painting the narrative that all male gamers are sexist. But when you are a member of the party that is accused of being sexist, it behooves you to take a step back and seriously examine your privilege and work with, rather than AGAINST, the people who see problems in that.

          • Ian Norton

            Yes, they are. The gaming journalists colluded together, in secret (it was leaked), to paint the narrative that all male gamers are sexist in order to deflect our criticism of their ethics. This is painfully obvious by the “Gamers are Dead” articles posted at every site on the list that GamerGate wants to boycott.

            The sexism you and this article accuse GamerGate of does not exist on an institutionalized level. I’m not saying none of us are sexist, but I am saying that GamerGate isn’t about sexism at all. I implore you to research more into this rather than buying into the games media’s smear campaign. If you don’t have the time or aren’t interested enough, I ask that you at least consider remaining neutral.

          • L-dan

            How, exactly, would GamerGate steer clear of institutionalized sexism unless they made a distinct effort to do so? That’s sort of how institutionalized ‘isms’ work. It’s the air we breathe, as it were. It’s kind of like “stop and frisk isn’t racist.” And…on paper, maybe it isn’t, but in practice, you can’t help noticing that most of the attention ends up aimed at people of color.

            That said, focusing on a group of journalists writing about a particular topic at the same time, is not actually related to this whole ‘journalistic ethics’ thing about reviews and conflicts of interest. That’s pretty much seems to be about some hurt feelings. As best I can tell, the single result, other than harassment, that GamerGate has accomplished, is getting Intel to pull ads from Gamasutra on account of one of these ‘insulting’ articles. Which…has little to do with journalistic ethics.

            Said articles also do not paint all male gamers as sexist. I really don’t know how poorly one has to read to get that. (No, I haven’t read them all. Probably about a dozen?) Saying that there’s a loud, obnoxious strain of sexist gamers in the mix, enough to make the identity look toxic and unappealing, is not the same thing as ‘all’. My Christian friends don’t look at articles about the creepy, misogynistic form of Christianity touted by the Duggars and think that the articles are saying all Christians are like that.

            Why does it seem that the push to punish people who hurt gamer feelings is stronger in the movement than the push to actually reform game reviewing or any other element of the system? Particularly when the ‘sexist gamers’ article blitz was in response to some nasty harassment, that Gamergate supposedly also condemns?

            Seriously, I just find myself confused about the actual ends of Gamergate, and the means to achieve them.

          • Michael Lindsay

            That sounds very exciting. It also sounds completely tinfoil hat loopy. Isn’t it more parsimonious to imagine that journalists just looked at the hard facts about who was playing games and the ongoing backlash by it’s shrinking former target market who feel a territory is being impinged on that was never theirs to begin with? That shrinking market isn’t “men” by the way it’s a certain…type of man.

          • fiona64

            it’s a certain…type of man

            Chris Kluwe has a lot to say about it … all of it in agreement with you. He’s a long-time gamer as well as a former NFLer. https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-gamergaters-piss-me-the-f-off-a7e4c7f6d8a6

            Just go read it; a lot of the language is fairly harsh and (for a change) I’m trying to keep it PG here. It is worth reading his thoughts on the whole thing.

          • fiona64

            I do not think that anyone, anywhere has said that all male games are sexist, but I think you would be hard-pressed to deny that it is true in a majority of cases. There is a reason why I don’t game, and that happens to be it. I have enough of that nonsense in my day-to-day life. Do I know why it happens? No.

            You may not be mad at Zoe, or any of the other women mentioned, but GamerGate sure as hell seems to be.

            Back in the days of print journalism, I was a newspaper editor. Now that anyone who can figure out HTML can call them a journalist, maybe things have changed. However, I can tell you that when I was an editor, it was “Okay, we have press passes for x, y and z thing. I’ll take volunteers first and after that I’m assigning. If someone had a conflict of interest, it was disclosed to me and I decided how big of a deal it was (“My cousin was the grip on that film” came up once … and I didn’t think it was worrisome. “My cousin is in that film” would have had a different result). Neither you nor I was in the room when the article assignment was made, and we don’t know what was or was not disclosed. I think that’s fair to say, don’t you?

          • Michael Lindsay

            Except, you know-that whole business is BS because a passing mention in an article=/= a review. You may not be “mad” but you sure don’t mind spreading sordid gossip which has been established to have been made of baloney.

          • Michael Lindsay

            You mean the free game that most people would have never heard of if GamerBrosGate hadn’t gotten their knickers in a twist over a vaporware sex scandal?

          • Sean N.

            Her “game” was objectively terrible. It was, subjectively, about HER and HER experience with depression. It was written in flash, when it could have been written in html (an unacceptable format for a steam greenlight submission hint hint) and initially solo credit was given to her, until it came out that two men “helped” her (but she did all the ‘programming’). It wasn’t fun and it wasn’t even reliably informative. It was literally a “oh god look how much I’ve SUFFERED, please support me on patreon ^_^” promotion.

            And it was universally and critically acclaimed.

            Because a woman was behind it and to criticize ANYTHING by a woman in the games industry was SACRILEGE until a couple months ago. Several independent reviewers ripped it apart objectively and were labeled as misogynists, bigots and nazis if that makes any sense. Her “game” was hence forth referred to as “critically” acclaimed, even though NONE of the reviews actually addressed the merit of the work itself, just it’s SUBJECT matter.

            No one likes political rhetoric shoved down their throats, especially when it’s the the “oh god look how oppressed women are in the first world” variety that goes on to state that the only cure is a “fundamental culture shift in which gender norms are destroyed and people only identify as “people”. Which I’m sure would still managed to offend someone… maybe the “otherkin”?

          • fiona64

            No one likes political rhetoric shoved down their throats, especially
            when it’s the the “oh god look how oppressed women are in the first
            world” variety that goes on to state that the only cure is a
            “fundamental culture shift in which gender norms are destroyed and
            people only identify as “people”.

            Oh, yes. The “other women have it worse so shut up and be grateful” trope. I wondered when that would show up.

            And what constitutes a “gender norm” in our culture? Reference my earlier comment about white men building the privilege ladder to benefit themselves.

            Now, I say all this without having seen or played the game … I already said that I am not involved in the gaming world because of the amount of sexism there. However, it seems that you are yet another dudebro blaming Quinn for what Nathan Grayson did. It just makes you look like an angry twit, IMO, and proves the point of Amanda Marcotte’s article.

            BTW, reviews are inherently subjective. That’s kind of the nature of the beast. What one person loves, another person will hate. I love French art films; my husband thinks they’re a bore. Does that mean one of us is “right” and the other is “wrong”? No, it means we have different opinions. This is how adults behave.

          • Sean N.

            You do NOT get to hide behind the suffering of others to bitch about the things you don’t have and feel entitled to – GROW. UP.

            It’s not a trope, it’s an objective FACT. You do NOT get to speak on behalf of, or even pretend to COMPREHEND, what people who suffer REAL oppression go through; in fact, your narcissistic self-aggrandizing whining only trivializes their suffering.

            There is no conspiracy of white men rigging the game in their favor in the first world. There is ZERO evidence for that claim – all the laws regarding diversity and affirmative action are a testament towards a promotion of INCLUSIVE EGALITARIANISM. As for “gender norms” – cloths and accessories. That’s about it, and frankly while I love the way some women’s clothes look, as a MAN I could never wear them because they would look terrible on me. Them’s the breaks.

            You haven’t seen or played the game? THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING DEBATING THIS ISSUE IN THE FIRST PLACE?! You are just literally reacting to something you feel strongly about without having a bloody clue to the subject matter or the true character of these people. Just because someone bangs the “oh god i’m being oppressed” gong doesn’t mean they bloody well actually are! Particularly when they retweet their “harassment” over and over and over again and then beg for donations on Patreon so they don’t have to actually do any work for a living.

            And I’m sorry, “the dudebro blaming for what nathan grayson did?” So you’re a misogynist and a misandrist? Because that statement indicated that women have NO control over their sex organs and that the man is solely responsible for their having sex. Pro Tip: SEX IS NEVER AN ACCIDENT. They are both ADULTS and they chose to have sex. Grayson just followed his corrupt industries lead by not informing his readers that he had an obvious bias towards Quinn BECAUSE of their relationship. In fact, he should have just NEVER written anything about her, PERIOD and he wouldn’t have ever had to tell ANYONE about it.

            Human BEINGS are inherently subjective, but it is incredibly dishonest and STUPID to sit there and claim that someone who CLAIMS to be objective can then go on to not be and that makes it ok. The issue is that these people are HIDING their bias and then then retaliating against people when it comes out that they do, in fact, have a slanted conflict of interest.

            A TRUE scholar, academic or journalist learns how to write as neutrally as POSSIBLE. And someone with even basic critical thinking ability learns how to HUNT for bias via things like “tone of voice”.

          • fiona64

            There is no conspiracy of white men rigging the game in their favor in the first world.

            Someone needs to get out of mommy’s basement a little more often. https://www.isr.umich.edu/home/diversity/resources/white-privilege.pdf

            THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING DEBATING THIS ISSUE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

            You’re the angry little dudebro who came to a reproductive justice website where I have been a regular for years to whine about how mean the wimmens are …

          • Sean N.

            … Are you honestly trying to make a connection between pro-choice and people wanting ethics in journalism? What the fuck lol How shamelessly stupid, to co-opt one issue for another. And for the record, a woman’s body is her own damn business and most Gamer’s hold that point of view.

            And did you just link me to an article by a hyper biased “angry feminist academic” from 1989? You do know that I, or anyone else with an education, could write an actual paper on the subject and provide actual SOURCE citation? You do know that the entire notion of “checking your privilege” is subjective? You do know that as a gay atheist I have even LESS privilege than a straight woman, by their own, ridiculous rubric?

            I’m so terribly sorry you feel you have the right to blame others for what you don’t have in life. Grow. Up.

          • fiona64

            I’m so terribly sorry you feel you have the right to blame others for what you don’t have in life. Grow. Up.

            You might want to take your own advice.

            Are you honestly trying to make a connection between pro-choice and people wanting ethics in journalism?

            Did you even bother to read the article to which these comments are attached? Amanda Marcotte drew a direct and connect line between the misogyny and reactionary *bullshit* of the anti-choice position and your so-called “movement.”

            Your “movement” has nothing to do with journalistic ethics; you and several others here have made that clear. It’s all about wanting your dudebro space to yourselves.

            Your constant tone policing of me, BTW, is exceptionally good proof that it’s not about journalistic ethics; like your telling me that women in other places have it worse than women in the first world and that I should be grateful, it’s nothing but a desperate attempt to silence women of whom you personally disapprove.

            Suck it up, Buttercup.

          • Sean N.

            Deary, let me tell you about what suffering really is, I was picked on and made an outcast for my ENTIRE life up until I graduated high school, to date I still only have 3 friends because of my social awkwardness and bipolar 2 disorder, I was unemployed for two years after I graduated with a double masters at age 24, ran out of money, was homeless, had to live off charity and welfare, worked horrible jobs, dealt with my un-diagnosed, un-medicated bipolar, dealt with feeling ashamed of being gay and a failure because I was working shitty retail jobs after doing so well in school and literally the ONLY time I break down and cry at the world is when I’m in a depressive phase. And after I come out of it I am EMBARRASSED at how pathetic it all sounds. What’s YOUR excuse?

            Amanda Marcotte makes shit up based on her subjective and heavily biased opinion, ROUTINELY. She lives to come up with any connection that supports her agenda, including outright lying, lying by omission and being condescending and hateful, because nothing is more empowering to people with a victim complex than getting to feel like the persecutor for once, right?

            Why the hell would Gamers devote time and energy to harassing or excluding women? We want as MANY people playing games as possible. All we want are GOOD games that are fun, high quality and FREE FROM CENSORSHIP.

            Care to explain #notyourshield? LOADS of women gamers. How about that huffington post interview with the 3 women gamers, one neutral and 2 PRO-GamerGate. Have you SEEN what the anti-GG people say to women who support ethic reform? One retweeted a guy calling her a c–t. I wasn’t aware that was proper etiquette.

            I’m not policing you, I’m holding you to a standard, the same standard I hold everyone to – you make a claim, you back it up with evidence. You sling mud, you get it slung back at you. If you can’t take it, then don’t dish it out. I’ll state it again, you don’t want equal treatment, you want SPECIAL TREATMENT. And it ain’t happening.

            The fact of the matter is, you don’t have ANYTHING to say except to repeat how oppressed women are (by that you mean yourself, and by that you mean to appropriate the legitimate suffering of women in the 3rd world) and how bad men are and to label all gamers as dudebro’s. #notyourshield would disagree with you.

          • fiona64

            GFY

          • Sean N.

            Indeed good for me. When you accept that life doesn’t owe you anything and that people invariably have it worse than you somewhere, then you can do the hard work to move on with your life. Then again some people find it profitabe to wallow in self pity, provoke malignancy on the net, broadcast about it and then beg for money. Others make a career out of being defamatory, bigoted and pseudo-intellectual con-artists that don’t genuinely care about anything, let alone making the world a worse place by their actions.

          • fiona64

            GFY does not mean what you appear it think it does.

            When you accept that life doesn’t owe you anything and that people
            invariably have it worse than you somewhere, then you can do the hard
            work to move on with your life.

            Nope, still not buying your “shut up and be grateful” bullshit. Nice try though.

          • Sean N.

            Actually I’m telling you to shut up and get professional help.

          • fiona64

            Why, loser-boy? Because I refuse to behave as you think I should?

            What a joke. You’re the one in need of professional help, since you just can’t stand the idea of women not kowtowing to you.

          • Sean N.

            You are either a troll or mentally ill. You’re bouncing around, refusing to answer the most basic of questions and whenever I corner you logically you accuse me of misogyny. Also, you’re pretty damn sexist.

          • fiona64

            Oh, I’m sexist because I call you out on your shit? Got it.

            So far as I can tell, you and the rest of your angry little Dudebros seem to be pissed off that a woman got laid and you didn’t. ::shrug:: Because not one BIT of your focus has been on Nathan Grayson. None of it. That’s why we all know that none of this is about journalistic ethics at all.

            And since I’ve been posting here at RHRC for years, and your pissy little self just showed up, I don’t think *I’m* the troll. You’ve made it abundantly clear that you didn’t bother to read the article to which these comments are appended.

            Why don’t you try doing that, just for a change?

          • Sean N.

            You know, I realize I have no reason to stoop to the level of name calling, vitriol and bad logic. And it’s not productive in trying to communicate with you, since it’s only going to offend you and put you on the defensive.

            So I’ll ask you some questions to help me understand you:

            Why do you “appear” to have such an incredible disdain for men/gamers/dudebros?

            Why do you “appear” to uncritically agree with everything someone is tell you, when the tone of their writing is not remotely neutral and they don’t link to sources or encourage you to fact check yourself?

            Why do you “appear” to believe that someone is exempt from criticism and judgement, for what seems to be their gender? What If a woman was making these arguments? There are plenty of women making these exact same argument – Socks from the YouTube channel NEET LIFE aka @radicalbytes on Twitter, is VERY outspoken about hypocrisy on this subject and has herself been harassed by anti-GGer’s and supported by pro-GGer’s.

          • Michael Lindsay

            Ya see that’s the whole trouble with you lot thinking you can police what reviews are supposed to be. If you think “objectively terrible” is a thing you clearly have no idea!

          • Sean N.

            Um, reviews are supposed to be as objective as possible, otherwise they’re dishonest hit pieces that lure people into supporting people and work they never would. Consumers aren’t an infinite well of cash, and they have a right to an HONEST review of material and to have the work of ALL parties reviewed equally and not just a poster-child for “oppression” raised up so that we can all be then told later how terrible we all are and that we should “check our privilege”. The hypocrisy is MIND BOGGLING.

          • fiona64

            Um, reviews are supposed to be as objective as possible

            Reviews by their very nature are subjective, Sean. They’re opinion pieces, not news journalism.

            Jesus wept.

          • Sean N.

            LMAO! oh look, repeating lipschitz incredibly dishonest 1st year college student nonsense?

            The people CLAIM to be journalists. They CLAIM to be honest and objective. If they want to stick it in their byline that they’re a social justice advocate and their work solely reflects their opinion and a message advocating their personal political views, that’s fine, but that is NOT what they are doing. You do NOT get to claim your opinions are facts. Opinions are NOT facts. Opinions can be based on facts (the only kind of opinions worth anything) aka “Informed Opinions”.

            Do you know what ETHICS are? Humans are OBVIOUSLY biased, but RESPONSIBLE academics and journalists are supposed to put aside their bias to give FAIR AND EQUAL coverage to issues and NOT manipulate the facts. I’ve literally watched you people advocated for using your positions of trust as a platform to disseminate your opinion as fact. How are you different from Fox News, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and all those others exactly?

          • fiona64

            I’m sorry you’re such a dumbfuck, Sean, but that’s really not my fault. No matter how many times you spew it, opinions (of which reviews are a category) are NOT hard news.

            No love, a former newspaper editor who knows that you’re wrong.

          • Sean N.

            Yet more eloquence of speech! You are just so pleasing to the ear indeed! And you’re delusional if you still haven’t grasped that the issue is that these people are CLAIMING to be objective, while being overtly biased, as demonstrated by the last month of smear articles on this subject, covering it from one side and lying non-stop. You can be as biased as you want, just don’t claim to NOT be be biased, because that just makes you a liar.

          • fiona64

            Let me clue you in, Dudebro: there are a whole lot of decisions you don’t get to make for me. One of them is which words I choose to employ. Your tone policing of the women on this thread tells me that the words “misogynist” and “reactionary” most definitely apply to your little “movement.”

          • Sean N.

            Oh, so you’re just an unethical muckraker with no actual interest in truth and integrity? Gotcha.

          • fiona64

            unethical muckraker with no actual interest in truth and integrity

            That sounds like an apt description of your behavior, Sean.

          • Sean N.

            Haha, I can’t recall which fallacy that is, but it’s “when in doubt, just repeat your opponents claim back at them, works every time!” I’m an academic and as someone who was the bullied kid from pre-k to high school, I actually care about justice and truth.

          • Sean N.

            Pro Tip: If you’re trying to be taken seriously, you shouldn’t end your incredibly shallow, unethical statement with a quotation from the greatest, hate-filled work of fiction ever sold.

          • fiona64

            Pro Tip: Shove it up your bunghole.

          • Sean N.

            Oh my god I have clearly been defeated by your succinct and clearly well thought out argument. You’re just a self-absorbed ideologue that doesn’t care about actual justice or equality, just what benefits you. You sicken me and the rest of the GamerGate community with how shallow, fake, intolerant and ignorant you are.

          • fiona64

            You’re just a self-absorbed ideologue that doesn’t care about actual justice or equality, just what benefits you.

            Sounds like every GamerGate dudebro, ever.

            You don’t get to decide what words I choose to use, or anything else. And I know that galls you, because misogynistic jerks think that they have a right to control every aspect of women’s lives and behavior.

            Sucks to be you, doesn’t it?

          • Sean N.

            So, asking you to use complete sentences, respond to argument and evidence with arguments and evidence and not resort to name calling when you wind up cornered by your own bad logic is “deciding what words you can use”?

            You honestly believe that contradicting your poor logic and criticizing your lack of knowledge on a subject and then holding your accountable for what you say is misogyny? How delusional.

          • Sean N.

            And the “oh my god someone is disagreeing with me, therefore misogyny” trope is really very tiresome. You are not immune to criticism or the rules of logic because of your sex or gender or anything else. We’re all equal in that way, no matter how much you want to be treated specially. ;) Now go rant on tumblr and get that deep, therapeutic hug box pressure to help you deal with the “triggers” I’m sure you’ve acquired from every day living.

        • Friesjones

          “One of the accused was Nathan Grayson, wrote for Rock Paper Shotgun and
          now writes for Kotaku. He has published positive articles on her and her
          game.” -Ian

          Yeah, that never happened: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SsdzQWd_l_UJ:kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

          • fiona64

            Well, that is very interesting indeed. Thank you for sharing it.

            Pertinent quote from Friesjones’ link:

            On March 31, Nathan published the only Kotaku article he’s written involving Zoe Quinn. It was about Game Jam, a failed reality show that Zoe and other developers were upset about being on. At the time, Nathan and Zoe were professional acquaintances. He quoted blog posts written by Zoe and others involved in the show. Shortly after that, in early April, Nathan and Zoe began a romantic relationship. He has not written about her since. Nathan never reviewed Zoe Quinn’s game Depression Quest, let alone gave it a favorable review.

        • Michael Lindsay

          Wrote articles, not reviews. Wrote articles prior to being in a relationship with her. This has been established but you guys keep plugging your party line because accepting that your entire cause was founded on a mountain of bullshit would be awful.

      • Sean N.

        Her BF, whom she mentally and emotion abused, oh and raped, repeatedly, by her OWN DEFINITION OF CONSENT.

        And she ADMITTED to it. But, the claim of “those are just ‘shops!” will be made, because it’s not been admitted to by, you know, all 5 of the guys who had a relationship with her at the same time she was dating her ex. :O

        • fiona64

          Oh, so you were in the bedroom and know exactly what went on? Okay then.

        • Michael Lindsay

          Your source a guy who was obviously jilted and responed by posting this screed to get people like you to go all faux-moral outragy over.

          • Sean N.

            ? source guy? read the original material lol. she’s unethical and untrustworthy and I will judge her based on her actions.

          • Sean N.

            Also I like your ad hominem attack. Care to actually address the issue? Or just make the white knight misogynist argument that women can’t defend themselves or ever be held accountable for their actions?

            His emotional state has NOTHING to do with the OBJECTIVE FACT that she cheated on him with FIVE different guys, lied to him, repeatedly, emotionally and psychologically abused him when he pressed her about it and, BY HER OWN DEFINITION OF CONSENT, raped him.

            Please, tell me who is faux-moral outraged?

          • fiona64

            OBJECTIVE FACT that she cheated on him with FIVE different guys

            If this was “objective fact,” there would be more proof than the allegations of a bitter guy who was dumped … I’m just sayin’.

          • Sean N.

            She admitted to it, and so did the journalists. Now kindly go crawl back into your hole.

          • fiona64

            Why so angry, Dudebro? Did your mom come down to the basement and take away your CheezDoodles and Mountain Dew?

            I’m sure you have a source for your allegation … other than your backside, right? Cough it up.

          • Sean N.

            mmo-champion.com and the escapist have a fantastic thread on gamergate and journalistic corruption, the original posts were updated to contain links to all the sources and evidence. You can also go read the articles by the suspect journalists in questions who admit to their relationships. You can also read the leaked emails from gamesjournopros about their relationship with Quinn. I can’t post links where I am, due to firewalls and connectivity speeds, but you don’t actually care about the evidence as your mind is made up – this is more for the benefit of anyone who happens to read this.

          • fiona64

            Yep, Mom definitely took away the junk food.

          • Sean N.

            Aw, how cute, such a condescending, snarky little sexist, misandrist bigot. Be honest, who touched you inappropriately? Or were you not the popular one in school? What past “trauma” do you need therapy for that you’re not getting that makes you such a miserable person? And I’m 29 and don’t eat junk food. I’m diabetic, yet another instance of my ACTUAL hardships, to your imagined ones. ;)

          • Sean N.

            She and the journalists in question all admitted to these relationships. Try again.

          • fiona64

            So you claim. What was it you said to me? Oh, yes. Anecdotes are not proof of anything. ::shrug::

          • Sean N.

            You’re the one who’s bluntly refusing to go look at the evidence ::shrug::

    • moaz

      Well written, stay classy mate.

    • John H

      And I’m a self-proclaimed anti-racist here to tell you that voter ID laws are really only about protecting the integrity of the vote, and also a feminist here to tell you that TRAP laws really are just there to ensure informed consent for medical procedures!

      *eyeroll*

      Look, asshat, I can’t imagine you’re actually arguing in good faith here, but since I was wrong that one time, I acknowledge that it can happen, so I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt you probably don’t deserve. You’re citing as support something that never ever happened. Zoe Quinn did not sleep with anyone who reviewed her game. Period. It absolutely IS (not “would have been” becasue we actually have comparison cases – men who haven’t slept with reviewers for good press instead of a woman who didn’t sleep with reviewers for good press) different for men – you and your compatriots are not running around making up false claims about who male developers have slept with the get good reviews. We’ve noticed the difference, and it exposes you as sexists (though it’s not the only bit that does so). Perhaps not intentional sexists, but you’re engaging in sexist behavior and supporting sexist social norms nonetheless.

    • Michael Lindsay

      Except she didn’t, and it wasn’t a review it was a report on a failed reality TV show where she was mentioned in passing, all before the journalist in question was in a relationship with her.
      But don’t let facts get in the way because, ya know-integrity.

  • Megamatics
  • Ian Norton
  • fiona64

    Right on cue!

    • Sean N.

      And you’re right on cue with the typical snarky response instead of a willingness to talk and some facts. The only women who have been “hurt” by gamergate to date are Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, all of which hurled shit at the internet and had it hurled back a them.

      Two wrongs don’t make a right, but ask and ye shall receive as the saying go. Not to mention that all three of them have a penchant for making claims without providing evidence (sexism and misogyny in the gaming industry based off a 80:20 split… and that is itself supposed to be proof? I don’t think people understand the different between an observation and evidence of a claim, not to mention the massive cherry picking this entails), insulting and defaming people, often for their own gain, and just genuinely being bigoted, cruel, victim ideologues.

      Meanwhile you have the folks of the #notyourshield campaign who have been smeared and degraded left and right by anti-gg’ers. One was even called a c–t recently on twitter for simply asking that games journalists stop insulting their readers and stop accepting money from developers for better review scores. How is that not misogynistic exactly?

      Devi Ami, a very vocal trans woman was BULLIED relentlessly for pointing out the hypocrisy of these radical left wing people and was ultimately doxxed, harassed and had her personal account and BANK account broken into.

      I wasn’t aware a truly just cause needed to resort to intimidation?

      A few bad actors, operating under the #GamerGate, which is a broad banner that anyone can claim as the movement is a CALL TO REFORM, have done some reprehensible things, to which all of the most prominent voices of GamerGate have spoken out. It’s started multiple charities, while the anti-GG press have done nothing but spew a stream of vitriol and hate and lies and held up shallow ideologues and con-artists as “the future”.

      Gamers are by definition, INCLUSIVE. We want as many people to be as part of our community as possible. It is the SJW, left-wing fundamentalists who call for censorship of violence and sexuality in media and demand that art only be exercised to send an “ethical message” they deem appropriate. Anita Sarkeesian and her counter-part John McIntosh have SAID this.

      • fiona64

        You are doing a fabulous job of proving that this has NOTHING to do with journalistic integrity whatsoever and being mad at women.

        Gamers are by definition, INCLUSIVE.

        I am afraid that my personal experience is at odds with your statement. ::shrug::

        • Jerry Samous

          Nice going anecdotal evidence is totally a legitimate argument

          • fiona64

            Keep proving my point, sweetie. Thanks!

          • Sean N.
          • fiona64

            Oh, look! An angry little dudebro blog. Yeah, that’s a reliable source. ::snort::

          • Jerry Samous

            wow ad hominem with a complete lack of evidence to support your claim or disproves Sean’s

          • Sean N.

            I know right? That’s some angry, GOMP “i know I’m right because I’m right because my feelings tell me i’m right as do all my like-minded friends”. You are not a jedi, and Obi-wan’s advice is not applicable in this situation fiona64.

          • Sean N.

            Discounts a source with links to evidence and actual evidence. Yeah, you’re not an ideologue. Is the earth 6000 years old too? ::snicker::

          • fiona64

            I am sorry you never learned how to evaluate sources.

          • Sean N.

            Weren’t you just saying that there’s no such thing as objectivity and therefore it’s all fair game? He’s not even spinning the story, just saying, “hey, remember that claim we had of impropriety? Well, we finally have evidence of it, here it is!”. And it didn’t take him a few thousand words of self-indulgences like this “article” did to make it’s point.

          • fiona64

            And no, dumbfuck, I did not say there was no such thing as objectivity. I said that *reviews are inherently subjective.” I’m sorry that you can’t read very well. I am given to understand that many in your situation are helped with a game called Hooked on Phonics. Have your mom look into it for you.

          • Sean N.

            Oooh, mincing words. You seem to have gone and edited a few of your replies. Cute. At any rate, “reviews are inherently subjective” equates to “there is no responsibility towards objectivity” which is actually something you said early about writers. You are going to dismiss a source just because it contradicts you. That just makes you look stupid and scared.

          • fiona64

            “reviews are inherently subjective” equates to “there is no responsibility towards objectivity”

            Only a moron would think so.

          • Sean N.

            Let’s do some basic logic: If all A’s are INHERENTLY B’s, then A’s are therefore NOT C’s when we are talking about subjective vs objective because they are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. Jesus Christ, do you not understand the meaning of words, or do you just like to change them around when it suits you? Or do I need to check my linguistic privilege? And you claimed to be an EDITOR? Also, you do get that this ENTIRE time you’ve been claiming solipsistic views on talking about OBJECTIVE subject matter? Subjects don’t have any bias themselves. Bias exist in the MINDS OF PEOPLE. Solipsism is also a confirmed logical fallacy!

          • fiona64

            My goodness, what a cranky little boy. I think you need to go color while the adults talk. You’re getting very red-faced and spittle is running down your chin. Do you need a nap?

            Dude, it’s not my fault that you are unable to comprehend the difference between the two clauses in question.

          • Sean N.

            ROFL hahaha I’m screen capping all of this for sharing time later on. I provide a logical framework, and you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and throw a hissy fit! It’s too much!

          • fiona64

            Rock on with your bad self.

            It really pisses you off when women don’t do as you say, doesn’t it?

          • Jerry Samous

            wow no real response to whats being asked you really are god at this

          • Sean N.

            Go. Look. At. The. Sources. I don’t see you providing any links to YOUR position captain.

        • Sean N.

          oh my god your personal experience with CoD kids wasn’t positive? Well holy poop, I guess that’s proof positive that all gamers everywhere are evil!

          • fiona64

            Keep on doubling down, sweetie. It just goes to show that those who criticize you are right to do so.

            Do you know why I don’t game, and never will? Because of asshats just like the one you see in the mirror every day. I don’t need that during my free time, thanks.

          • Sean N.

            Or, you could just do what everyone else that isn’t a special snowflake does and mute the kiddies online that get a rise out of your by being crass and rude and not going “oh my god that kid said a swear!” and “oh my god, that kid used a term for a gay person derogatorily!” and “oh my god that kid insulted a religious group!” and assuming they are all legitimately members of hate groups and not just trying to piss you off because they find it funny and know it ruins your concentration and gives them an advantage.

            Games and the internet in general, come with hand dandy tools that let you ignore people, effectively erasing them. If you honestly think you can make people “stop being trolls” through any means other than censorship, you’re insane. And if you are pro-censorship, then you’re evil, because censorship is a tool of OPPRESSION.

          • Sean N.

            Wait I just saw this second part (feels like an edit, yes I’ve seen you do it a couple times now), You don’t game? And you don’t know anything about it… yet you are outraged because of one-side of a story someone told you? That’s very reasonable and adult-like.

          • fiona64

            So what, I edited my post for clarity.

            Dudebro, I was gaming before you were *born,* and I don’t do it *anymore*. Because of misogynistic pigs just like you.

            Read for comprehension.

          • Sean N.

            LOL no, you’ve edited way more than that. Letting your impassioned mouth/fingers get ahead of you? You see, the difference between “your feelz” and “t3h facts” is that one is based in reality and the other is a load of horseshit you drag up because you’re clearly angry and lashing out. Care to take a stab at which is which? ::sarcasm::

          • fiona64

            You know, I’m sorry. I’m really, really sorry.

            About your microphallus. Really, I am.

      • Michael Lindsay

        “Hurled shit at the internet”-said things that weren’t popular with jerks who hate being reminded of the real world. “Had it hurled back at them”-because rape threats and fucking bomb threats are totally the same as a video series thesis or a choose your own adventure style game about Depression!

        • Sean N.

          “Hurled shit at the internet” refers to openly mocking people and slandering them with bigoted, borderline and outright RACIST and BIGOTED comments. Some of these are still up; most have been deleted. But the internet doesn’t forget – it’s all be archived as an eternal testament to trolls trolling the internet looking for worse trolls to then claim “oh my god they’re picking on me” – if you ASK FOR IT, you shall RECEIVE IT. It’s literally like poking a dog with a pointy stick until it bites you, and then blaming the dog.

          You do realize that the threats that have posted are from anonymous sources? A few were even shown to be BY FEMINISTS/SJWs supporters sock puppeting to drive their cause (because a righteous cause needs lies and deception, right?). The threats have ALL been demonstrated to not be credible.

          The bomb threat? Convenient that was only mentioned (and NEVER confirmed! claims need evidence to support them, mate) after the gamesjournopro’s email list was leaked. A LOT of people were pissed off they were NEVER NOTIFIED of said alleged threat.

          The shooting threat? Consistent with threats Sarkeesian receives ALL the time (and then goes on to publish, which anyone in law enforcement will tell you is a HORRIBLE idea) – the head of the university, local law enforcement AND the FBI all confirmed the threat was NOT credible. No. Threat. And Sarkeesian still cancelled and then went on a tear about “concealed carry laws being more important than the safety of students and WOMEN”, note the separate identification.

          And your hand waving doesn’t address the issue with a poorly made pseudo-game that received a noticeably disproportionate amount of attention while other works, thanks to the revelations of the leaked documents of gamesjournopro’s were intentionally NOT covered.

  • CS4Cookies

    Did this article really just happen? Did this author really just relate Gamergate supporters to pro-lifers who don’t want women to have abortions? Just repeat that to yourself and try to make sense of it all. If you can’t, then like me, you’ll agree that this article did not make any bit of sense. I’m a liberal. I’m a democrat. I’m a minority. I went to a pro-liberal graduate school. I know Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood like the back of my hand.

    • fiona64

      Yeah, actually, it made perfect sense: both the anti-choice and GG movements are reactionary and misogynistic.

  • CS4Cookies

    Here are two videos, one featuring women explaining why they support Gamergate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtzrUsi6Y1s, and another wrapping up a minority’s point of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipcWm4B3EU4

  • Michael Lindsay

    So, why were Gamergaters barely interested in the reviewer, who never reviewed Quinn’s game but are still disturbingly obsessed with Quinn. And yes, the entire industry was threatened by a non-mainstream free game that was mentioned in passing by some guy!

    • Sean N.

      And while we’re on the subject, care to share with us your feelings on the CONFIRMED attack Zoe Quinn and her extremist fans lead against The Fine Young Capitalist, including doxxing and harassing them, and then SHAMELESSLY promoting her own game jam, for which there is no:

      location, start date, goal, information in general
      -oh-
      and the money being raised was going into her personal paypal account :O

      Crowdsourcing aka the newest form of legal shilling and conning, because there’s NO strings attached. Just like that IndieGoGo scammer who “tried to commit suicide” live on Twitch; the one who was defrauding people out of their money in order to pay for sexual reassignment surgery.

      As someone who has had a very long exposure to the mental health field, I can tell you, you don’t “try to commit suicide” in front of a live studio audience if you are serious about it – it’s a cry for attention to distract from your EPIC dishonesty. But this is where I get labeled as transphobic and insensitive to people with emotional disturbances, even though I’m openly gay, an out-spoken marriage equality advocate, an out-spoken atheist, and a life long sufferer of Bipolar II disorder, which means I actually KNOW what depression feels like.

    • Sean N.

      What are you talking about? Gamers called for the heads and blood from all the websites, only a handful of people who had been personally offended by Quinn’s manipulative and abusive actions went after her. She was connected to SO many people that of course the spot light was going to be on her, and since her livelihood is LITERALLY connected to being perceived as a victim, she couldn’t stop stirring the shit either. And her game was mentioned by EVERYONE eventually as “critically acclaimed”, without any actual criticism of it.

      And that’s the other thing – GamerGate isn’t about any of the women. It’s about the interactions of the gaming press with them. Take Anita Sarkeesian. She artfully cultivated outrage at her “criticism” of games culture in order to raise as much money as possible (engaging in mass censorship, selective trolling, refusing to answer hundreds of counter arguments against her fallacious claims, and ultimately allowing the comments section and ratings section on her most controversial video (in which she and her cohort McIntosh outright lie and misrepresent facts, with the Hitman Absolution game, not to say she doesn’t lie and contradict herself in other videos, such as her “gender identifiers” one, where she is wearing lipstick and hoop earrings while simultaneously calling these things bad) to go unmoderated for a brief period so she could then claim “oh my god look at how I’m being harassed!”. As soon as her kickstarter project ended, she locked the comments on the video and allowed no more discussion, as it was no longer profitably. Many of the comments on her kickstarter page went along the lines of “I don’t really care about video games, but as soon as I heard about the harassment this poor woman was facing, I just had to donate”.

      And the ULTIMATE example of the the games journalism industries corruption? Blatantly ignoring facts and then spinning the narrative to one of extremism. Ms. Sarkeesian claims to be a gamer and that she has played games since she was 5 years old, and is therefore an expert on gaming because she has a liberal arts master’s degree. I have TWO master’s degree’s, I’m the same age as her and one of my is in cultural HISTORY and as an atheist I am DOUBLY obligated to live and die by critical thinking and the body of evidence.

      There is a video of Ms. Sarkeesian, in college, talking about her favorite subjective subject, games where she openly ADMITS to “I’m not a gamer, I actually had to learn a lot about games while researching this, I don’t like games, blowing people up and stuff it’s just, gross!”. When this was brought up as a measure of her dishonesty, the games media launched dozens of articles about “how many games make the gamer?” and REFUSED to acknowledge her own admission even existed, and when the masses pressed the subject? The message changed to:

      Misogynistic Gamer’s claim Sarkeesian isn’t a Gamer because she’s a woman.

      Which is what the games media is doing NOW. Except this time it’s THEM that are in the cross hairs, so they’ve labeled everyone as misogynists who hate women in an attempt to sow divisiveness to distract from their abusive culture of manipulation, all in the quest to continue enjoying the perks of existing as an extension of PR and Marketing for game devs – free merch, food and booze at exclusive parties.

    • Sean N.

      Ohai, http://theralphretort.com/zoe-quinn-couldnt-have-made-depression-quest-without-grayson/

      Please explain why journalists are given a “special thanks” on a game, prior to it’s release? Activism =/= journalism and if you claim to be impartial while engaging in activism then you are a LIAR.