Katha Pollitt’s ‘Pro’ Hopes to Sway the ‘Muddled Middle’ on Abortion Ethics


In Pro: Reclaiming Abortion Rights, feminist and writer Katha Pollitt offers a well-crafted defense of abortion as a social and ethical good. While this will likely come as no surprise to most reproductive justice activists, Pollitt’s target audience is actually those who believe abortion should be legally limited. In order to convince them otherwise, she offers a step-by-step deconstruction of the arbitrary restrictions that implicitly declare some abortions as morally permissible and others as not.

Pollitt acknowledges that the anti-choice movement’s relentless fixation on abortion as the murder of innocent human life has resulted in many victories for reproductive rights opponents, notably with regard to public discourse on abortion. She writes:

The anti-abortion movement has placed the zygote/embryo/fetus at the moral center, while relegating women and their rights to the periphery … Over time, it has altered the way we talk about abortion and the way many people feel about it, even if they remain pro-choice. It has made abortion seem risky, when in fact it is remarkably safe—12 to 14 times safer than the alternative, which is continued pregnancy and childbirth.

In addition, anti-choicers’ frequent citation of “Post-Abortion Syndrome,” the unsubstantiated idea that after a termination women will suffer from a host of physical and psychological ailments—such as breast cancer, infertility, depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation—has planted more doubts in many people’s minds.

And all of this confusion is further compounded, Pollitt notes, by the language that politicians, pundits, and conservative activists typically use to publicly discuss abortion. Operation Save America, for example, routinely dubs abortion as “genocide” and its providers as “Nazis.” Even Hillary Rodham Clinton has claimed that abortion is a “sad, even tragic, choice,” rather than one that millions of women make without undue malaise every year.

As a whole, this ideological crusade has been disastrous for the reproductive justice movement. Support for devastatingly restrictive legislation, for instance, remains strong in many regions. And while one-third of U.S. women will have an abortion before age 45, the procedure continues to be shrouded in secrecy, shame, and silence, making it harder to access on both an individual and systemic level.

The anti-abortion movement’s smear campaign is largely to blame for this pervasive stigma; nonetheless, Pollitt says that some of the culpability also rests with the pro-choice movement’s reluctance to defend abortion as a necessary, safe, and normal part of everyday medicine. Instead, she says, pro-reproductive rights activists tend to focus on abortions necessary in extreme circumstances:

Forty years of apologetic rhetoric, 40 years of searching for arguments that will support legal abortion while never, ever, implying that it is an easy decision or a good thing—for women, men, and children, families, society—have left the pro-choice movement making the same limited, defensive arguments again and again … We hear endlessly about rape victims, incest victims, women at risk of death and injury, women carrying fetuses with rare fatal conditions—and make no mistake, those girls and women exist and their rights need to be defended because the laws in many states will harm them greatly. But we don’t hear about the vast majority of women who choose abortion, who are basically trying to get their life on track or keep it there.

Predictably, this strategy has led to a divide in opinion on abortion. The majority of Americans support abortion in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the pregnant woman’s life; at the same time, many oppose Medicaid funding for the procedure and stand against its availability in later trimesters.

This, Pollitt writes, is a logistically flawed stance. She asks:

Do those who say a woman should have the baby even if she has no money assume there’s help out there for her, the way so many people believe anyone who really wants to work can find a job? Do they think poor people shouldn’t have sex, even if they’re married, so tough luck if the condom breaks? Or that no woman should have sex unless she’s prepared to have a baby nine months later? That is the logic, after all, of the rape and incest exception: She can kill her baby if she was forced into intercourse, but not if she volunteered.

She also points out the reasons later abortions are legally necessary, including post-20-week discoveries of fetal anomalies, women denying or overlooking their pregnancies during the first few months of gestation, and financial or relationship troubles that make it impossible to obtain the procedure sooner.

Overall, though anti-choicers may have distracted Americans with questions about timing and context, Pollitt maintains, their arguments are actually driven and reinforced by misogyny. “If we allow women’s lives to be derailed by a single sperm, if bearing and raising children is something she should be ready to do at any moment, we must not think women’s lives matter too much to begin with,” she observes. “What matters is that they had sex.”

And therein lies the crux of the issue. Pollitt is certainly not the first person to point out that the idea of women controlling their sexual and reproductive lives has shaken the foundational underpinnings of male-dominated culture. Small wonder that thousands of individuals and organizations—including the Catholic Church and the Republican Party—are dedicated to stopping the change.

Needless to say, they’re mighty foes.

Pollitt makes clear that abortion is central to women’s liberation and calls reproductive rights “the key to every other freedom.” She further argues that it is impossible not to see the attacks on abortion as an attack on feminism. “When you consider the way restrictions on abortion go hand-in-hand with cutbacks in social programs and stymied gender equality, it is hard not to suspect that the aim is to put women and children back under male control by making it impossible for them to survive outside it,” she writes.

So what to do? Although Pollitt says that her goal is to reach people in the “muddled middle”—”those who don’t want to ban abortion, exactly, but don’t want it to be widely available, either”—she still issues a call to arms for reproductive justice allies. She urges us to boldly and matter-of-factly claim abortion as socially beneficial across the board, and to stop skirting the issue of female sexuality as a valid justification for its availability.

She points out:

Pro-choice organizations avoid talking directly about sex and sexual freedom, making narrow and expedient points against each new proposed restriction: Parental notification and consent laws are wrong because some families are violent and dysfunctional; 20-week bans are wrong because of fetuses with extreme deformities; women need birth control coverage in the Affordable Care Act because the Pill has other medical uses.

While this is all true, she writes, the arguments against abortion restrictions are much broader than that. Ultimately, these laws are wrong because it is immoral to force parenthood on women who are not ready or able to be mothers. The reproductive justice movement should, first and foremost, stand for their right to autonomy and self-determination.

To that end, she also pushes us to to defend family choice in all its incarnations by also advocating for paid parental leave; flex-time work schedules; available and affordable child care; decent housing; adequate public benefits; nutritious food; and access to schooling, job training, and medical care.

“For too long the pro-choice movement was either complacent or defensive,” she concludes. “It sold itself too cheaply to the Democratic Party, even when the Democrats were seeking out anti-abortion and anti-feminist candidates to run in conservative districts.”

Pro: Reclaiming Abortion Rights is a plea for feminists and the pro-choice and reproductive justice communities to be proactive in support of legal abortion in all circumstances, not just politically favorable ones. Those of us already in Pollitt’s corner will undoubtedly be energized and emboldened by her hard-hitting argument; hopefully, it will be enough to convince that aforementioned “muddled middle,” too. Indeed, if Pro finds its way into the hearts and minds of those whose support for abortion is equivocal, we just might win this epic struggle.

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  • goatini

    My pre-ordered Kindle copy just downloaded to my iPad! Just started reading and I’m loving it.

  • refruits

    Yeah, I find it amazing that pro liars claim to be true feminists when they work to restrict women’s rights. And it is no secret that forced childbirth negatively affects women’s equality.

    • Ramanusia

      I don’t, they’re pretty much the opposite of every thing the proclaim themselves to be “pro”. They care little about women, babies, fetuses, ensuring a healthy pregnancy, ensuring that women can choose not to get pregnant in the first place, life itself when the life under discussion is that of a woman and not any foreign cell in her body etc.

  • fiona64

    “If we allow women’s lives to be derailed by a single sperm, if bearing
    and raising children is something she should be ready to do at any
    moment, we must not think women’s lives matter too much to begin with,”
    she observes. “What matters is that they had sex.”

    That’s the most succinct description of the anti-choice position ever.

    • refruits

      Amanda Marcotte has talked about this on the RHRC podcast – she calls it the philosophy of the ‘sacred sperm’ – that sperm, and by extension men, are entitled, by natural law, to women’s bodies.

      • lady_black

        Nuts to that!

      • Arekushieru

        Exactly! That’s their line of thinking and it always HAS been.

    • Unicorn Farm

      Completely agree, 100%.
      So often the debates we have hinge on hyper-technical interpretations of the bodily autonomy argument. Anti-choicers force pro-choicers into debating this way. The real debate should be focused exactly as Marcotte puts it. By focusing on “gotcha” arguments about women “placing” embryos in the uterus and “consent” and “active v. passive killing”, et. al., the antis pretend to mask their utter disregard for the lives of women.

      • refruits

        I’ve been discussing this very subject with pro-lifers as of late, and it gets extremely convoluted, where the law is involved.

        I keep hearing, over and over again, that there is a list of ‘non-derogable’ rights, but that all of these rights are utterly subordinate to the ‘right to life’, and that therefore, a violation of bodily autonomy and even bodily harm created by pregnancy is A OK because life –> all.

        And a fellow on The Friendly Atheist blog who claims to be law school graduate is now making the argument that it is morally reprehensible of us not to hold other people down and take their body tissues/parts to save the lives of others. He even accused a woman of being ‘cold hearted and callous’ when she said that she would not steal someone’s kidney for her dying child. WTF! His argument is the same as above – since all other rights stem from the ‘right to life’ that therefore, the right to life is the only right that really matters.

        I find this argument fallacious because, as others here have pointed out, how can there be a ‘right to life?’ There can be a right not to be unjustly killed, but a right to life? What, is your right to life violated if a hurricane hits your town? If you can’t afford to pay for medication and you die? Do you sue cancer for taking your life? Does the ‘right to life’ give you the right to steal from and harm others? I think that the ‘right to life’ stems from bodily autonomy, as in, the right to not have your body interfered with, because *that* can lead to your death. What if someone beats you up, with merely the intention of softening you up a little, except you die later on from injuries sustained in the beating. I mean, they ONLY intended to violate your bodily integrity, right? Not take your life? And if they are ONLY softening you up a little, not putting your life in ‘imminent danger’ then would you not be guilty of unjustly killing them (by pro life standards) if you hit them over the head with a barbell?

        I find that many of the PL arguments in regards to rights are very binary, black and white. Everything must be proportional. Unless you are nearly flat-lining you cannot exercise lethal force to defend yourself. Of course, they ONLY apply this rule to pregnancy, conveniently enough. If your rapist is going to paralyze you, that’s bad, and you can use lethal force to defend yourself. But, if an innocent widdle embwyo is going to 100pct permanently paralyze you, well, that’s ok, cuz it’s like all cute and stuff.

        • Arekushieru

          Like I always say, refruits, bodily integrity is presupposed by life.

        • lady_black

          I must be “cold-hearted: then. I wouldn’t steal anyone’s kidney even to save my own life. Even a live donor, I would always be worried that some day they would need that kidney :( This is why we need to raise awareness on organ donor status for all licensed drivers. Sadly, the way most folks are apt to get organs is from someone who dies in an accident. Our loved ones are gone, but some good can come of it. Become a registered organ donor today.

          • refruits

            Yep!

            And do you see Joshua’s latest reply to me? He is special pleading for zef’s! I knew it!

            And screw that ‘normative’ vs ‘diseased’ state. Pro-lifers make the argument *all* the time that no matter how short your life is, or if you are disabled, or ‘non-viable’ that your life MATTERS.

            Ok, so a 5 year old dying of leukemia has hopes and dreams too, no? Is the death of a 5 year old any less tragic than the death of a pwecious embwyo? So why is it acceptable to tell the 5 year old that their life doesn’t matter, because they are ‘diseased’ but that the life of a zef matters because this is ‘normal development’. F that!

            I’m gonna type up a reply to him later when I get my thoughts in order, but that’s the gist of it. “Pro-lifers believe that the right to life trumps all other rights because no rights are possible without life first” – and then they apply it ONLY to zef’s!! Which is what he’s doing!

          • Nessie

            This brings to mind a quote:
            “I don’t want to survive. I want to live.”- from Wall-E.

          • fiona64

            Joshua admitted to me that he believes a woman’s rights are to be automatically abrogated the moment she becomes pregnant.

            Joshua is a giant twatwaffle.

          • refruits

            Yes. And he does not believe in the sanctity of life as a general principle – bone marrow donation to save a dying 5yo is off the table because it isn’t “normative” and will “disease” the donor .

            But pregnancy is totes natural and what women are made for. His argument is a fallacy of special pleading wrapped up in an is/ought with a heaping side dish of an appeal to nature.

          • Nessie

            No doubt he’s also opposed to stem cell research and therapeutic cloning(the cloning of organs and tissues rather than of whole organisms).

          • TheDingus

            What calls them out, every time, is the plain fact that women’s lives don’t matter to them. They don’t matter as in, it’s acceptable for women to die; and they don’t matter as in, what happens to women during their lives. They can be raped (“make lemonade!”); they can be murdered (“it’s just a few of them!”);their health can be compromised (“so what if you now have diabetes?”); their liberty can be stripped from them and so can their religion, without due process; their privacy and property can likewise be stripped from them without due process.

            They have to slander women – call us selfish, call us emotional, call us murderers – to distract from the fact that their own position is based on half the human race not being “human” enough to treat equally. There was a guy on this site the other day who argued for “reproductive justice for the unborn!” Of course, the unborn can’t reproduce, so there is no such thing. But such irrationality illumines their thinking: in the womb, you have all the rights in the world, never mind that you cannot exercise any of them (not even the right to life: the woman makes that possible); out of the womb, men have all the rights in the world but women, not so much. To reach the conclusion that to them human = male is inescapable.

          • refruits

            Exactly. If they can dehumanize us, and make pregnancy out as just an ordinary thing that “women are made for” then they can distract from the fact that they are subjugating women. And when that does not work, they accuse women of being immoral baby killing sloots, who SHOULD be forced to gestate, because life is precious and what kind of horrible person would kill babies just to have consequence free sex?

          • TheDingus

            Most men, every day, when they spill their seed. No seed, no baby. Funny, isn’t it, that a zygote has a “right to live” by way of a woman’s body, but not a right to live (ie, be created) by way of a man’s?

          • Ella Warnock

            They have to slander women – call us selfish, call us emotional, call us murderers

            IOW, they have to do what they hysterically, frantically accuse us of doing: they have to dehumanize us.

  • Lightwing1

    Thank you,Katha Pollitt for being just the breath of fresh air I needed to get focused. Even as an avid supporter of women’s (and men’s for that matter) reproductive rights, I have been swayed by the message of abortion = shame that is bandied about across the media.

    Many opponents of abortion rights are dismissive of women’s rational capability – and yet – isn’t the choice to not bring a child into the world when one cannot properly nurture that child the most rational choice of all?

    I read this article on Slate and after reading some of the comments became so angry. Slate is supposed to be a progressive site, but the commenters, mostly progressive, were busy dicing up women’s reproductive rights into simplistic moral statements such as “Well, I am as pro-choice as they come, but even I draw a line at a woman feeling no shame on having an abortion. I know lots of women who have had abortions and none of them were happy about it.” The implication being, of course, that any woman who was relieved to have an abortion should be branded with the scarlet letter. How dare a woman have sex, enjoy herself, and escape the punishment? It ain’t fittin’, it just ain’t fittin’… /sarc

    I posted a comment there defending my right to self-determination, but it was ghosted so I cancelled my account. I am tired of being told that I need to walk in shame because I had the audacity to protect a child from being brought into the world unwanted. How dare they? I WAS an unwanted child and I know what that pain feels like and wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

    I can’t believe that a progressive media rag shut down my voice because it didn’t correlate to their own views. If progressives are going to shame women for their choices, we are in trouble.

    I stand with Katha Pollitt and I will no longer hide my “radical” self in the closet. It’s time to stop pussyfooting around this issue and take our power back! Oh, and I’m done with Slate.

  • Ella Warnock

    We hear endlessly about rape victims, incest victims, women at risk of
    death and injury, women carrying fetuses with rare fatal conditions—and
    make no mistake, those girls and women exist and their rights need to be
    defended because the laws in many states will harm them greatly. But we
    don’t hear about the vast majority of women who choose abortion, who
    are basically trying to get their life on track or keep it there.

    This is the same sort of ‘reasoning’ that irks me so about birth control insurance coverage. Yes, I’m aware that many, many women use HBC for medical conditions, thus making it easier to access for them as it ‘qualifies’ to be covered by insurance. The problem here is that there’s any distinction at all about why it’s being used. Used for health? Not a s!ut. Used for its primary purpose, to prevent unwanted pregnancy? Total s!ut. You’d better not be having any kind of sex you enjoy and expect to get out of the ‘consequences’ (code name for children). As if, of course, abortion is not also a ‘consequence;’ and as if, of course, it’s inherently the worst consequence EVAR.

    At any rate, we should all just stop responding to any of this with JADEing. It doesn’t matter why and it’s no one else’s business, no matter how many times they stomp their little feet or how long they hold their collective breath, so move the hell on.

  • Shan

    .

    Accidental post.

  • Shan

    SO much this!

    I totally identify here because I’ve been recently been saying this in discussions with pro-life people. I’m so fed up with feeling like I have to tiptoe around trying to be “nice” to them, so now I go (like a lot of others I’ve seen here at RHRC): “Yeah, of course abortion ends a human life. That’s exactly WHY women have abortions. Because they don’t want to gestate and give birth to another human being. None of them have been worried that they were going to give birth to a toaster oven or a chipmunk. And considering that 2/3 of them have already HAD children and the rest of them have had biology classes since grade school, yeah, they DO know exactly what they’re doing when they have an abortion. They do NOT need you or the government to interfere and mansplain everything with lectures and mandates designed to “save” them and/or their “unborn children” from deciding to have an abortion.

    So, yes, I will come out and say it: I support the right to legal abortion whenever a pregnant woman wants to have one, at whatever stage of pregnancy, and for whatever reason. Because this constant legal nitpicking at the right to abortion being based on “politically favorable” circumstances has thrown far too many pregnant women under the bus, no matter whether they intend to terminate their pregnancies or go to term.

    The “OMG the fertilized egg is a person, you contraception-using pro-abort murderer!!! eleventy” fetal-personhood proponents have pushed me, who had formerly been sort of moderate and accepting of the RvW cutoff of “its okay to ban abortion after viability” to take the position of “Oh, really? You want to ban abortion (and everything you BELIEVE it is, despite scientific evidence) from the moment the sperm meets the egg and that’s IT as far as you’re concerned? Then, no. If you’re not willing to negotiate “personhood rights” down from the point where sperm-meets-egg, I’m not willing to negotiate women’s rights down from the point where the fetus exits a woman’s body.”

    • Lightwing1

      Wish I could like this x 1,000!

    • debbierlus

      They are not pro-life, they are anti-choice. It is not pro-life to force a woman to carry a pregnancy she has decided she can’t complete. Period. Don’t cede that status to these fascists. Always, anti-choice.

    • Arekushieru

      You seem to be saying that women have abortions because it ends a life. Did you actually mean to say that women have abortions because they know they could not be pregnant without a living embryo being present at some point during conception (meaning fertilization to implantation in this case)?

      • Shan

        I’m pretty sure we’re saying the same thing except that mine came out as a rant because the article got me a bit fired up.

        • Arekushieru

          Gotcha! :)

    • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

      Like, I think I might be too “nice.” Part of that is because I’m usually writing for an imagined third party, an outsider on the fence evaluating the arguments pro and con. In that context, dispassionately shredding the other side’s arguments does have a great deal of value. But I’ve also been feeling the need to go on the offense, as it were. Not be “mean” (unless, of course, the other party deserves it), but be more assertive that a woman has a right to have sex if she pleases and to deal with a pregnancy in whatever way she deems fit.

      There have also been a couple occasions where I am acutely aware that I am a male. I have bitten my tongue (er, locked my fingers), before saying something I just knew would be taken wrong. I love irony, but being accused of being anti-woman by a “pro-lifer”(!) is a little too much even for me.

      • fiona64

        The entire anti-choice position is based in misogyny, as we well know. And the anti-choice males *really* hate it when the convenience of their position is pointed out. Anyone who accuses you of being anti-woman is clearly delusional, Timothy. Someone like Joshua, OTOH, who makes no bones about his beliefs that women should lose their civil rights the minute they become pregnant? That’s what an anti-woman individual looks like.

        • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

          I know this but let’s take a look at a couple cases I’ve dealt with. I think I’ve seen you on both threads, so you may have seen them.

          In the first case, I did actually stop myself from given what I thought would be the best response. This involved the pro-criminalizer (I really like this term, you are gong to seem me use if more often) pointing out a case where a woman who was turned away from having an abortion and subsequently felt that having the child was the best thing that happened to her.

          Well, now, that raises the possibility that she is deluding herself. Objectively, she was in a worse off position than she would have been had she been able to abort. She took some lemons and made lemonade. Is she really happy about it, or is she just telling herself she is happy about it as a means of avoiding her very real problems? This is a common phenomena among people.

          But to actually say something like that absolutely risks dismissing her very real feelings. After all, who am I to question someone else’s feelings? And being a man, saying that of a woman. . . . Well, that at least has the appearance of being anti-woman, if not the reality.

          In the other case, I had a “pro-lifer,” a male one no less, who pointed out that I did have a dog in the fight. And objectively speaking, this is true in that if a woman aborts a pregnancy I created, I’m off the hook for eighteen years of child support. He also went into various means of how a man coerces women into having an abortion they don’t want.

          In this case I bit the bullet and allowed that a man could use any means at his disposal short of physical force to convince a pregnant woman to abort. At the end of the day, the woman still had a choice.

          Now, I do genuinely agree this is permissible, however reprehensible. I wouldn’t have responded the way I did otherwise. But I am also all too aware this leaves me looking like I am unsympathetic to a woman going through this form of reproductive coercion. And again, as a man saying this, it *looks* especially bad (though in this case even a woman could be accused of being anti-woman). I got lucky my opponent didn’t press the issue.

    • TheDingus

      Bravo!

      Frankly the pro-choice movement has made a couple of mistakes: first, taking for granted that our rights our protected so these folks can natter on as much as they like; second, treating their arguments with the same consideration and respect we expect ours to be treated with. We gave them a couple of inches, and they’ve run a marathon with it.

      I’ve read some insane hogwash from these people – literally insane – and because we’ve let them natter on and given due consideration to their arguments, they don’t even know they’re crazy. Any nonsense makes sense to them weighed against “the murder of babies!!!!” Now here we are, hoping that one or two conservative Catholic men on the Supreme Court retain a shred of logic, legal acumen and dignity.

      Like you, I’m pretty much done treating them with respect. They’re dishonest actors, and have earned the opposite of respect. Take “late term” abortion: that used to mean after six months. Now it means after four months. In truth, far less actual damage would be done by desperate girls having third trimester abortions for “convenience” than will be done by giving government the authority to direct everyone’s reproductive lives. Far less.

      Dr. Tiller said it best: trust women.

      • Shan

        “Dr. Tiller said it best: trust women.”

        Ayup. I recently donated to “Trust Women” because I can’t quite yet manage the logistics of becoming a clinic escort (if they need any) at South Wind.

  • debbierlus

    Bravo!!! We totally need to change the discussion and stop allowing these zealots to dictate their bent version of ‘morality’ onto women. I think we need to take away their label as ‘pro-life’. They are NOT pro-life. They are pro-zygote-embryo-fetus. There is nothing ‘pro-life’ about forcing a woman into carrying a pregnancy to term that she does not want or can’t carry for whatever reason.

    • thedancingbag

      I agree. It’s maddening that the mainstream media refers to women’s health clinics as abortion clinics. That would be like calling a hospital that offers neurosurgery a neurosurgery unit, rather than call it a hospital where neurosurgery is offered.

  • debbierlus

    Here is the new term we use in discussing those who oppose abortion and reproductive choice. PRO-CRIMINALIZATION. Forget anti-choice. No. Criminalizing abortion does NOT stop abortion, it merely drives it underground. Guttermacher studies have shown that countries that do not have legal abortion have higher abortion rates. There is NOTHING pro-life about forcing a woman to seek an unsafe abortion without proper and respectful medical care. There is nothing pro-life about criminalizing the care women are able to access for their health and well being. And, beyond that, there strategy is ultimately ineffectual towards their own goal of supposedly reducing abortions (we have seen the hypocrisy of this movement again and again, as they move onto attacking contraceptive access, a move that will result in many more abortions). This is long overdue. Stop talking about abortion on their limited, skewed, and dishonest terms and reclaim the discussion.

    • Ella Warnock

      Pro-criminalization. I like it.

      • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

        Me too.

    • Shan

      The majority of the ones who think abortion should be illegal don’t even know what “illegal” means. Press them and ask what punishment a woman who has (or seeks) an abortion should have, and they will refuse. And they won’t admit that refusing to criminalize women for abortion infantilizes them just as much as the current waiting period and ultrasound mandates do. I had a go-round with Calvin Frieburger at LAN about it and I thought he was going to have an aneurysm. Turns out he’s always like that, though.

      • fiona64

        Calvin Freakburger is constitutionally incapable of answering hard questions … or dealing with facts. As we all know.

        • Shan

          Hard questions are hard for people who live in an immature black-and-white world so they try to make them easier by trying to stuff them into a simple little pre-made box.

      • TheDingus

        The question of punishment for the crime makes hash of their argument that abortion is “murder.” What do we do with murderers? We lock them up for years; we even kill them. But we don’t do that to female murderers of “precious little unborn babies?” Can you imagine excusing the murderer of an actual baby in its crib that way? Can you imagine excusing someone who contracts actual murder out? “You’re fine, it’s that guy you hired who’s guilty…”

        They just know that locking up 13 year old Susie or Mary, mother of three, for years because they don’t want to have a baby is a bridge too far for rational people. But they go right on lying about abortion being “murder” don’t they?

        • refruits

          Their excuse is that out of ‘practicality’, because they want to ‘save unborn lives first and foremost’ that they can’t come out and start asking for life in jail for 1st degree murder…that will come later…perhaps in another 40 years when people’s ‘minds have changed’ and when it is fully accepted that embryos are people too! Oh and, we didn’t punish former slaveowners after the Civil War, so why do that to women?

          • TheDingus

            I wouldn’t even give it 40 years; they’re already jailing women for having miscarriages.

            Meanwhile I’m trying to think when or how I might change my mind about women being human beings with rights. Hmmm. Never.

          • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

            It has been said that the success of a revolution is indicated by the fact that people will not go back to the previous state of affairs. If so, then we’ve won and the conservatives are just trying to delay the inevitable.

    • TheDingus

      Amen.

  • gardensheila

    The right to terminate a pregnancy safely, conveniently and legally is essential if we care anything about rights for women. Why would a group of cells, an embryo, a fetus, have more rights than a woman? Why would anyone feel they had the right to interfere in a woman’s choices about whether to bear a child? Pure romance and pure bullshit. It is clearly women having sex that bothers these people. If they cared about the potential child, then why would they want this child to start its journey on this earth as an unwanted child? I am completely bamboozled by the amount of sentimentality and denial and irrationality that makes up the human species. We can’t stop producing and consuming though we are destroying ourselves and our planet by our absurd inability to deal with the reality of our actions.

  • P. McCoy

    We wouldn’t have these problems if we had laws allowing religious and secularists who are against abortion, LGBT rights etc; the right to believe but the duty to NOT to impose their beliefs on others. When as in Philadelphia forced birthers can show graphic images supporting their views, but pro choicers cannot set up screens and bullhorns around anti choicers’ churches, schools, universities, hospitals and the politicians that support them then we lose because reciprocity in getting out the message has not been established.

    Canada restricts “freedom of religion” when it morphs into hate speech endangering the rights of the public- the United States needs to start doing the same

    We don’t allows cultists to protest violently against patients seeking blood transfusions, psychological services or medical services; abortion and contraception should be given the same protections and respect.

    Last of all, we must turn the tide against those who shame women who want abortions instead shame those who have a perverse and dysfunctional, compulsive/obsessive need to meddle in the medical decisions and sex lives of complete strangers in some weird form of living out vicariously.

    • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

      Sex is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s about hierarchy, centered on the rich white male. They want to control women, especially to make sure she is sleeping (and thus conceiving) only with the man she has been assigned. Sexism, racism, classism. It is all about control on the one end and a dividing and conquering on the other. I can’t think of a better summation of world (and especially American) history than that.

    • TheDingus

      Hear, hear!

      We do have laws allowing religious and secularists who are against abortion, LGBT rights, etc the right to believe whatever they like, and to live according to their beliefs. That’s what puzzles me so greatly: these folks are not being affected in any way if someone they don’t know doesn’t have a baby in the future, or if someone they don’t know marries a same-sex partner. They have absolutely no standing. They aren’t even materially affected if someone they do know has an abortion or marries a same-sex partner. They experience no actual harm; their personal rights are not violated. They have no standing. What’s happened is they’ve managed to legitimize the idea that they can’t be offended. (Gawd: don’t you wish we could likewise claim the right not to be offended?)

      What’s most disturbing about the Hobby Lobby case is that the mere THOUGHT of what MIGHT be going on in someone else’s uterus was granted protection. The argument was that certain kinds of contraception “offends” the Greens’ religious beliefs – seriously? Not, they were forced to use those kinds of contraceptives against their beliefs; not, they were prohibited from going to the church of their choice; not, they can’t speak out about what they believe. No, they were distressed by THEIR OWN THOUGHTS about other people’s PRIVATE medical care! It didn’t even matter if any single Hobby Lobby employee actually got an IUD: there’s no legal way for the Green’s to know that. It was just the THOUGHT that their employees COULD. And the Gang of Five bought that? Very disturbing.

      Likewise the abortion protest ruling: they defined speech IMPOSED ON OTHERS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT as “counseling” and therefore protected. What? Can you imagine if psychiatrists were to buttonhole strangers in the streets, publicly call them mentally ill, and start counseling them? Why, I do believe that would be called assault, not “counseling.” That would be slander, not “counseling.” But doing it to those stupid, selfish wimmin is not the same, right?

      The disingenuousness, the reduction of women to a separate status under law, is outrageous.

      • Arekushieru

        That’s also not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech includes freedom FROM speech, as well.

  • expect_resistance

    I can’t wait to read this book. I’ve listened to several interviews of Katha and she articulately explains a pro-choice viewpoint of intelligent practicality. I’ve really enjoyed listening to her. She is spot on with reproductive justice! I love how she said “motherhood is not the default position for women.” I also appreciate how she talks about the idea of making the decision to have an abortion is the not the most difficult decision a woman makes. I agree with her. She said most women who are pregnant and want to have an abortion want to do it ASAP. I agree. When I was pregnant and didn’t want to be I wanted to have an abortion ASAP. A more difficult decision for me was putting my cat to sleep when her cancer was going to kill her in 48 hour. She was 15 and healthy. It broke my heart to make the decision.

    • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

      I had to make the same decision for my dog Jorge back in March. He was 15 and just stopped eating. This was a very significant symptom because he was a chow hound. I didn’t have the money to get diagnosed, and I wouldn’t have had the money to treat whatever was wrong, and at his age I’d likely be playing whack-a-mole with his health anyway. He was my security when I had panic attacks. There are days that I just want him back.

      • expect_resistance

        I’m sorry. Animals are great companions. Even though we pay attention to how they are feeling, they often hide it if they are in pain. My cat had a fast growing cancer in her mouth. She had a check up in late March and developed mouth cancer and passed away in late May. She was in perfect health before this and her vet was shocked at what happened. Sometimes even though we do the best we can with our animal companions we will outlive them and have to consider end of life care.

        • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

          I am really sorry about that. It’s the sudden, unexpected things that can be the hardest. Back when I was married, we had a dog, Joxer, who suddenly went into convulsions. We did all kinds of tests, until it came to the point where they could do an MRI, but the possibilities had so narrowed that there would have been nothing they could have done for him. He was only about seven years old, I had expected a few more years with him. In retrospect, I mark his death as the beginning of the end of my marriage.

          And then there was Joy (yes, there is a deliberate pattern here). In her case, at least I didn’t have to make that sort of decision. She was playful and happy when I went to bed, and dead when I woke up in the morning. She was about 12, but again I expected to have a few more years with her.

          Ironically, I wound up crying more for Joxer and Joy than I did Jorge, which would seem really shameful since Jorge was my most favorite dog I’ve ever had. The only way I can explain it is to note he was getting that old so I knew it was coming. More or less I was prepared. I had already done a lot of crying knowing what was coming, so maybe there just wasn’t that many tears left.

          • expect_resistance

            I understand. My cat Ben lived an adventurous 22 and 1/2 years. He defied the odds living well past his nine lives. He passed away in my arms two years ago. I still miss him.

            Even though they have left the earth I feel their spirits. I’ve learned so much from my furry companions I feel they are still with me. I’m better for having them I’m my life. I want to be the person my cat thinks I am. :)

          • refruits

            My beloved kitty died at 16. I never thought that I would get over it, but I have since adopted an Abyssinian, and she is a fuckwit . I like fuckwits. <3

          • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

            A fuckwit as in “she’ll fuck wit’ you”?

          • refruits

            Oh yeah!! I always tell her that she is an “asscat”. Get it!?

            She ” fucks wit me” when I am trying to type out arguments on the PC:p she will climb up on my shoulder and prevent me from working. She is my furparrot!

          • expect_resistance

            My Ben used to perch on my left shoulder like a parrot. He was a mostly white cat with Orange spots. His vet said he acted like an Abyssinian cat. He talked non-stop and wanted to be held or perch on my shoulder. He was a smart ass little shit. I miss him tons.

          • refruits

            My little Aby is hopeless. She can’t even catch mice. A baby mouse can outsmart the little shit. And when spiders won’t ‘play’ with her, she cries and cries because they are ‘big’ meanies and damnit, she deserves to have fun!

          • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

            Jorge chased mice. Joy caught them, often while hardly trying. I would tell him, “Some predator you make.”

          • refruits

            I got my Aby by accident. After Booty died, my mom said that she would buy me a new cat. Booty was absolutely gorgeous, and well, I like pretty cats, so I wasn’t about to get just anything. I remembered seeing “Abyssinian’ somewhere, so I told her “just get me an Aby”. I had NO idea what I was getting into. She really likes to knock stuff down, and will go to great lengths to sit on my router and my modem. I didn’t like her at first, tbh, because I still missed Booty, but as time has passed the little shit has grown on me, and I do not miss Booty nearly as much.

            The only other kind of kitty that I would have wanted would have been a Bengal -they have the most beautiful coats, but from what I understand, they can be even more destructive than Abys. Also, Siamese are pretty cool, from what I have heard, very vocal and friendly.

          • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

            My sisters got me Snoopy and Fang shortly after Jorge died. I wasn’t really prepared for it but they are growing on me. They are brothers and already eight years old, so I didn’t want to change their names.

          • refruits

            Those names are good, imo. They are beagles, right?

          • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

            Yes. The previous owners needed to give them a new home. They belonged to the kids, but now they are off to college. I presume “Fang” is after Hagrid’s dog in the Harry Potter series. If so, it’s actually a rather good fit for him because he is very much like that namesake.

          • refruits
          • Arekushieru

            SO freaking adorable!

          • expect_resistance

            Siamese cats are chatty. My neighbor’s cat a Siamese mix hangs out in my yard and talks to me non-stop. Of course I give him lots of attention and catnip from the garden. He waits for me when I get home from work and talks my ears off.

          • refruits

            Animals are not different from us in kind; only in degree.

            And this is where pro liars are full of shit, because a human zygote is not more valuable than a sweet dog or kitty just because it is h.sapiens DNA.

          • Arekushieru

            Have you heard about the case to grant personhood rights to a chimpanzee, that’s occurring in NYC right now? I don’t have any issue with it, myself, but, even if someone does, I think we can still make the argument that as long as corporations have personhood status why not animals such as chimpanzees and still have it make sense to people like that (no? If you are one of those that would have an issue with granting personhood status maybe you would be at a better vantage point to tell us if that comparison makes sense?).

          • refruits

            I’m with you.

          • thedancingbag

            I love the one two punch that deconstructs the idea of corporations as people. At least a chimp could walk into a voting booth and pull a lever, which takes more thought from a chimp than most of the koch brothers corporatist lackies on the right put into their votes.

          • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

            I can’t point at a corporation, either.

          • Arekushieru

            Have you ever tried a Russian Blue/Lynx cross? This cat is absolutely GORGEOUS. Calm temperament, VERY affectionate and most of all, hypo-allergenic. And that was even before Winston/Shadow was neutered. He lives with my younger cousin, now, but we had him for three weeks before he started living with them.

            ETA: Oh, yes, and he LOVES to talk or, rather, ‘chirrup’. He was such a sweet little (well, bigger, now) guy.

          • refruits

            Only seen pix. Pretty cats. Chirping is cool.

          • expect_resistance

            Understand. I can’t live without cat companions. I now have an orange boy farm cat and a tiny but tough little calico.

          • refruits

            Are you familiar with professor ceiling cat?
            http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com

            Loves evolution, kitties, and is PC.

          • expect_resistance

            That is the cutest video. Thanks for the link.

          • P. McCoy

            Crushing now on Bentley, Nina Pham’s King Charles Cocker Spaniel still in quarantine in Texas. He’s alive, Ebola negative and loving. You know that even though donations are flowing in to pay for that pooch’s expensive care, so called kids not pets people are posting their hate on about it. Bottom feeders.

            Truth to say, I didn’t warm to Pham until I saw her pic ( before Ebola) with Bentley. God willing, if he gets the all clear and is released on Nov 1st, I am nominating him for Time Magazine’s 2014 Animal of the Year- for saving Nina’s life by giving her the will to live in hope of being reunited with him as well as his courage of going through the trials he’s endured in isolation.

            The staff loves him! He’ s a true furbaby hero!

          • Arekushieru

            King Charles Cocker Spaniel? Oo, they are SO freaking adorable! SQUEEEEEEE…..

          • P. McCoy

            He’s the Blenheim kind, photogenic and fluffy! There are news videos online- he definitely rates a double Awwwww! Let’s keep sending him healing thoughts.

          • P. McCoy

            Cat lovers take note! A Hallmark Channel show with kittens similar to Animal Planet’s Puppy Bowl may be on next year. Will keep you updated. Also, the Puppy Bowl always does a kitten half time show that’ s the ” the cat’s pajamas.”

            For those who can’t get their kitty fix quickly enough, Cats 101, the cutest cat, kittens on Too Cute and the classic ‘ My Cat from Hell’ starring the one and only Jackson Galaxy comes on Animal Planet.

            This is not meant as spam, but rather sharing ways to rejuvenate between the War against those who would physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually ENSLAVE US!

            Until the Constitution is changed in order to curb religious “speech and acts” from turning into hate speech and overthrowing the government in favor of a theocratic facist empire- to the last, never EVER SURRENDER!

          • http://tagriffy.blogspot.com/ Timothy Griffy

            My e-mail sig line says, “Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.” That’s a high aspiration indeed.

            After it was done, I shed what tears I had, and told Jorge I’d see him soon.

          • P. McCoy

            Pope Francis has told his cultists not to substitute pets for children; to them,animals “don’t have souls.” Just looking into the eyes of our pets or noticing them being heroic puts a lie to that.

            Are anti choicers so embittered because we prefer sentient animals to zygotes?

            To an authoritarian mind, free thinking is dangerous; are possessions especially so called ‘unborn children’ of complete strangers.

          • TheDingus

            Such good questions. Reading through this I was thinking about my German Shepherd, who I had to euthanize last year. Her history is apropos: she was owned by a breeder until she developed a tumor on her teat, then she was unceremoniously brought to the pound, having out-lasted her reproductive usefulness. That tumor turned out to be benign, she was spayed, and she lived an additional four years with us just being a dog, not a uterus on legs.

            She suddenly developed an aggressive tumor of the upper palate, which was inoperable, and within a blindingly fast time went from being happy, healthy and my constant companion to being in pain, bleeding from the mouth, and having difficulty eating and breathing. Perhaps worse was her obvious confusion over what was happening, the way she looked at me for something. We loved each other.

            The last, best thing I could do for her was end her suffering, but it was considerably more distressing than having an abortion. I’m sure many an anti-choice person would be outraged and possibly genuinely confused by that. Well: my dog was a living, breathing, loving, sentient intelligence, not a future possibility. We had a real relationship, not just a biological one. There’s also the parallel that her life was my responsibility. Sometimes the only choices we have are hard ones, but we still have to make them.

            I’d have slugged in the face anyone who stepped in and called me a “dog killer” in those circumstances, who argued that as long as there was biological existence, the other details (agonizing death by slow starvation or suffocation) didn’t matter, or said that just because she was my dog I had no right to exercise my responsibility over her because I’m female. You know?

        • lady_black

          I had a cat with a fast growing tumor on her jaw. The vet said he could remove half her lower jaw. Once I picked my own jaw off the floor I said absolutely not. I thought that would be cruel. She was 12 years old. I said I would take her home and let her live whatever life she had left. When she stopped eating two weeks later, I called and said it was time. You never stop missing them.

          • expect_resistance

            I looked into this option and yes it would have been cruel and it wouldn’t have extended her live by much. Both of my cats died within 5 months of each other. Two years later my life is busy with two young cats who are very goofy and energetic. I think my cat angels would approve. Your right I’ll never stop missing them.

            BTW you kicked butt at The Atlantic! I love watching you in action.

        • TheDingus

          Hugs to both of you.

  • night porter