The 5th Circuit Gave Every Woman in Texas the Middle Finger Thursday Night

Categories: Healthcare

ppgtsy.jpg
Stephen Young
One of eight.
Thursday night, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals granted a stay that allows Texas to fully enforce House Bill 2 -- the anti-abortion measure passed by the state in 2013. As of this morning, there are eight healthcare facilities in the state that can legally provide abortion, one for every 675,000 reproductive aged Texas women. It was the confirmation of a script already written, but is jarring nonetheless. A Midland woman seeking an abortion now faces at least a 300-mile trip.

See also: The Future of Women's Healthcare in Texas Looks Bleak. What's Next?

The circuit's opinion was written by Jennifer Walker Elrod, a George W. Bush appointee. Here are some of the most outrageous bits:

"The evidence does indicate, without specificity, that by requiring all abortion clinics to meet the minimum standards of ambulatory surgical centers, the overall cost of accessing an abortion provider will likely increase. However, as the Supreme Court recognized in Carhart, and we observed in Abbott I, "'[t]he fact that a law which serves a valid purpose, one not designed to strike at the right itself, has the incidental effect of making it more difficult or more expensive to procure an abortion cannot be enough to invalidate it.'" Abbott I, 734 F.3d at 413 (alteration in original) (quoting Carhart, 550 U.S. at 157-58)."

Ignoring the legalese, who but the 5th Circuit actually believes that HB2 is "not designed to strike at the right itself?" Governor Rick Perry himself has said that it is his goal to make abortion a "thing of the past," and Carol Tobias, the president of the National Right to Life organization, admitted that HB2 is about restricting access during an August appearance on ABC's This Week.

"We do not doubt that women in poverty face greater difficulties. However, to sustain a facial challenge, the Supreme Court and this circuit require Plaintiffs to establish that the law itself imposes an undue burden on at least a large fraction of women. Plaintiffs have not done so here."

Admitting HB2 causes greater difficulties for the most vulnerable is galling enough, but insisting that the number of women facing an undue burden from HB2 is not a large fraction is ridiculous. Dr. Daniel Grossman, the lead witness for the clinics challenging HB2, testified that 17 percent of Texas women seeking abortions would have to drive more than 150 miles. Seventeen percent is a large fraction.

"The district court also erred when it balanced the efficacy of the ambulatory surgical center provision against the burdens the provision imposed. In the district court's view, "the severity of the burden imposed by both requirements is not balanced by the weight of the interests underlying them." Whole Woman's Health, slip op. at 13. As support for this proposition, the court evaluated whether the ambulatory surgical center provision would actually improve women's health and safety. Id. at 14-15 ("The court concludes that it is unlikely that the stated goal of the requirement -- improving women's health -- will actually come to pass."). This approach contravenes our precedent. In our circuit, we do not balance the wisdom or effectiveness of a law against the burdens the law imposes."

That's right, that the U.S. District Court that initially overturned HB2's ASC provision "evaluated whether the ambulatory surgical center provision would actually improve women's health and safety" was a mistake the 5th Circuit needed to rectify.

The lead council for the clinics who filed the suit, Stephanie Toti, said in a teleconference Friday morning that she and her clients will continue to appeal the ruling. Toti also believes an HB2 case will wind up in the Supreme Court "sooner rather than later." Elrod's opinion confirms that she does too. In outlining the conflict between the 5th Circuit's ruling and other circuits, she basically dared the Supreme Court to take the case.

Fifth Circuit HB2 Opinion

My Voice Nation Help
133 comments
cathybodi
cathybodi

Who, in the right mind, would want ANY procedure from a clinic that is NOT inspected regularly or held to the same standards of any other surgical clinic???  If these women want abortions, at least have them in an environment that is clinically safe & inspected!!!!

banepage
banepage

What can abortion supporter do to increase the number of abortions in Texas besides elect the right candidates and attend protests? Are their funding options available for donations? Ride share support groups? we need answers!

lilbit810
lilbit810

Reading these comments makes me wish some of y'all were aborted.

Guest
Guest

Women are pissed, but I hear Texas babies are celebrating this decision

Wastrel
Wastrel

It's been shown in history that a woman will do anything, including risking her own life, to terminate a pregnancy when she doesn't want the baby.  We should allow women to abort a pregnancy safely, because we can.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

Texas will now have the safest abortion mills in the country.

#waronwomen

cajunscouse9
cajunscouse9

I laugh at the idiocy of the author. True to liberalism, he assumes the mantle of speaking for every woman.

OxbowIncident
OxbowIncident

Yes, but the State of Texas just spoke for those that cannot yet speak for themselves. That's what we want in any government.

bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

As pot becomes more and more legal, abortion will become the new "pot".  Republicans who fight to outlaw it will be helping their partners in the failing drug cartels transition into operating unregulated abortion clinics.

Instead of going to a clinic, women will be compelled to get involved with church leaders who will "compassionately" direct them to some legally immigrated, unregulated abortionist, operating out of the rectory or their garage.

I equate the two because, as every stoner knows, the best drugs are not got in dark alleys, but through churches - specifically, the ones who do "missionary" work in Afghanistan and Central America.

Americano
Americano

Let's all give the finger to Texas women!

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

The Court didn't give every woman in Texas "the finger", just those women who have a uterus.

ghkyluhhje
ghkyluhhje

@Guest 


"Women are pissed, but I hear Texas babies are celebrating this decision"


-Not likely, especially if they are deformed or unwanted. All the babies are going to gang up on you one day and kill you for being such an uncaring douche to them.

bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

@cajunscouse9 

I don't see any women complaining - a stark contrast to when Republicans try to speak for them.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@cajunscouse9

He does, all women are liberal. Those holding conservative values are not real women, just as conservative blacks are not truly black.

i3desiderata
i3desiderata

Legal weed is still really expensive. Drug dealers haven't taken a hit at all, and you're not even considering pills, heroin or cocaine.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@bvckvs

There's a very good article in Slate addressing the dangers of Christian missionary doctors who are and have been treating Africans for everything up to and including ebola - the concern being that they may be proselytizing to the sick and dying while treating them, putting these patients in grave danger.

As for abortion, it's likely that churches will lure unsuspecting abortion-seekers with promises of a reasonably safe procedure, only to make war on their vaginas.

bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

@i3desiderata 

Econ 101 - when supply is low, or demand is high, prices will rise.  So if you're seeing high prices, it either means that there's not much weed available, that the demand is sky high, or some combination of the two.


Drug dealers have taken a hit (pun intended).  They only way they could not have would be if all the folks buying legal weed are new to the stoner life.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

not use it?

the uterus has a function everytime a woman has sex. it is not just a vessel.

next thing on the right's agenda: the State telling women when they can use their uterus!

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@bvckvs @i3desiderata


Reality 101 -- the STRICTLY REGULATED markets for Government Approved and Controlled Marijuana in Colorado and Washington are NOT "free markets". Hence their ability to wildly inflate prices for those idiot tourists and lazy ostracized tools who don't have a private caregiver / grower connection.


The Gray and Black markets -- friends, family and associates --  that have ALWAYS supplied the pot markets in Colorado and elsewhere are still producing and distributing as much marijuana or more than they always have, and at a far better price, since their costs and overhead are -- and always will be -- way lower than those over-regulated, overtaxed, greedy big $$ retail dispensary cartels.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps

Given that abortion is inextricably linked to eugenics

so much disinformation, so much time on your hands.

oh, I know, your going to spit out the crap about the Eugenics Movement of a hundred years ago and how Sanger (and many, many others of that time) briefly supported it.

*yawn*

many of those same people supported prohibition, so is prohibition and abortion "inextricably linked"? apparently your answer would be YES!

why don't you show any factual link between abortion and eugenics supporters post Roe?

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps Actually, I was thinking about how Ruth Bader Ginsberg was talking about Roe being about preventing undesirables from reproducing.


You know, from about a month ago.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@everlastingphelps

...Ruth Bader Ginsberg was talking about Roe being about preventing undesirables from reproducing.

I think she was referring to Scalia.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

odd, Ginsburg never said anything about "preventing undesireables from reproducing".

why do you make stuff up? dishonesty is not a very admireable trait.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@TheRuddSki 

got to admit, that was pretty funny.

but did you know that Ginsburg and Scalia are described as "the best of friends most of the time"?

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

She's lying.

JFPO
JFPO

We should have super power emojis available.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

oh, parsing, the tool for those who want to twist a quote to suit their selfish goals....

here's the interview. I don't parse because, unlike others, I'm committed to being honest:

"Q: The case ties together themes of women’s equality and reproductive freedom. The court split those themes apart in Roe v. Wade. Do you see, as part of a future feminist legal wish list, repositioning Roe so that the right to abortion is rooted in the constitutional promise of sex equality?

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Oh, yes. I think it will be.

Q: If you were a lawyer again, what would you want to accomplish as a future feminist legal agenda?

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Reproductive choice has to be straightened out. There will never be a woman of means without choice anymore. That just seems to me so obvious. The states that had changed their abortion laws before Roe [to make abortion legal] are not going to change back. So we have a policy that affects only poor women, and it can never be otherwise, and I don’t know why this hasn’t been said more often.

Q: Are you talking about the distances women have to travel because in parts of the country, abortion is essentially unavailable, because there are so few doctors and clinics that do the procedure? And also, the lack of Medicaid for abortions for poor women?

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Yes, the ruling about that surprised me. [Harris v. McRae — in 1980 the court upheld the Hyde Amendment, which forbids the use of Medicaid for abortions.] Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion. Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn’t really want them. But when the court decided McRae, the case came out the other way. And then I realized that my perception of it had been altogether wrong."

So the context is abortions for the poor, and how only the poor's access to abortion is affected by these cases.

the primary purpose of reproductive choice among low income women, ever since the founding of Planned Parenthood, is to help them limit their number of children. Stats prove fewer kids help households improve their economic status, and large families hold back improving economic status.

To take Ginsburg's comments as an endorsement of Eugenics is absurd and dishonest.

 

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

yes, she "was right", the current situation only affects the poor.

and I showed your dishonesty, Ginsburg never said anything about "preventing undesireables from reproducing".

when you find that link to eugenics and abortion let us know...

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps You showed nothing.  You just changed the subject.


What I said was that abortion and eugenics are inextricably linked.


I then showed where Ginsberg herself thought that Roe was about preventing the growth of certain populations, which is the essence of Eugenics.


However it is that she eventually ended up, her first reaction to hearing about a pro-abortion ruling was that it was based in eugenics.


Now, you can draw two inferences from that -- either:


a) abortion and eugenics are linked, and it was reasonable for her to make that association, or


b) You think Ruth Bader Ginsberg is stupid.


Is it A or B?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

It's striking how you can claim things which are clearly fabrications on your part.

let's see:

first you claim that "abortion and eugenics are inextribaly linked".

but when challenged you fail to show an association.

you then dishonestly parse a portion of an interview with Justice Ginsburg in an attempt to prove your point.

when challenged you fail to address Justice Ginsburg's actual point, shown by including the full transcript, and continue to try and twist her words to fit your agenda.

now, one can draw two inferences from that --either:

a) your dishonesty is so much ingrained in your mind you fail to realize you are doing it, or

b) you're under the impression that everyone already knows about your dishonesty so they don't really care anymore.

Is it a or b?

btw, it's Ginsburg not Ginsberg....one time's a typo, multiple times is idiocy.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog Is abortion linked to eugenics or not?


If abortion is not linked to eugenics then why did Ginsburg initially think it was?


(You win the grammar award.  Call it victory and go home -- it's the best you can do here.)

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@mavdog @TheRuddSki @everlastingphelps @ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul @markzero 


Rule #1 = Konservatards Always Lie


Rule #2 = see rule 1


hth.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps

Your repeating the same claim does not make it true.

Ginsburg never linked abortion to eugenics. That was clearly shown by her comments in the interview. Dishonestly claiming otherwise reveals how hollow your position is.

Abortion is an individual's choice. Ginsburg never says otherwise.

Failure on your part. You were challenged to show a link between abortion and eugenics, and the only response you come up with is a distortion of a comment in a single interview.

Dishonesty is waving the white flag of surrender. You are doing it well!

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog Ginsburg said, "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of."


WHY did she think that, if eugenics and abortion are not linked?


She continued, "Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn’t really want them."


Why did she think that COERCION was part of the decision, if eugenics and abortion are not linked?


Quit changing the subject, and answer the central question.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

WHY did she think that, if eugenics and abortion are not linked?

answered above where I, unlike your dishonest parsing of Ginsburg's words, showed exactly what was meant by the Justice.

and it has nothing to do with eugenics.

Apparently the answer to my question is b), you're under the impression that everyone already knows about your dishonesty so they don't really care anymore.

you're right, we are so accustomed to your dishonesty we pretty much accept that it is what you do. doesn't mean you shouldn't be called out for it, like I'm doing.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps ANSWER THE QUESTION.  Again, you are JUST changing the subject.


I'm not talking about how her understanding changed with further rulings.  I'm asking about her initial reaction.  Either you are calling her a liar, or you are not answering the question.


If eugenics and abortion are not linked, why did she think Roe was about eugenics?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

what's wrong Phelps, can't you read the above posts? or as they show your dishonest parsing and twisting of Justice Ginsburg's comments you prefer to ignore them?

here, I'll repost the answer:


So the context is abortions for the poor, and how only the poor's access to abortion is affected by these cases.

the primary purpose of reproductive choice among low income women, ever since the founding of Planned Parenthood, is to help them limit their number of children. Stats prove fewer kids help households improve their economic status, and large families hold back improving economic status.

I'm not calling "her" a liar Phelps, you are the one wearing that label. Ginsburg never said anything about 'eugenics".

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps How is "particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of" not eugenics?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

So the context is abortions for the poor, and how only the poor's access to abortion is affected by these cases.

the primary purpose of reproductive choice among low income women, ever since the founding of Planned Parenthood, is to help them limit their number of children. Stats prove fewer kids help households improve their economic status, and large families hold back improving economic status.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps Again, you changed the subject rather than answering.  You answered why the target population would (think they) want it, not why the "we" in her answer would want to "limit" certain populations.  That tells the whole story.


30 years ago, the lie was "there's nothing about socialism in the liberal agenda."  Now, the story is, "well, of course the liberal agenda is socialist, but only the good socialism.  Only idiot would think it has nothing to do with socialism."


Right now, the lie is "there is nothing about eugenics in the abortion agenda."  In 30 years, the story will be, "well, of course the abortion agenda is about eugenics, but only the good eugenics.  Only an idiot would think it has nothing to do with eugenics."

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

Again, you changed the subject rather than answering. You answered why the target population would (think they) want it, not why the "we" in her answer would want to "limit" certain populations.

no Phelps, the subject is the same as it was when Justice Ginsburg said the words she did. Your denial of these facts show the hollowness of your position.

You choose to twist the words to suit your interpertation. Thankfully we have the entire interview to show your dishonesty.

Your proclivity to put words in people's mouths, in spite of the truth of what they actually said, is disturbing. 

Justice Ginsburg said nothing about abortion and eugenics, that has been shown without any doubt to be true.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog What do you think eugenics is?


Why do you think using abortion to "limit" certain populations "we don't want too many of" is not eugenics?

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps

"Limit"????

NOWHERE in Justice Ginsburg's remarks does the word "limit" appear.

And you place it in quotation marks, attempting to deceive people into thinking it was said.

Incredibly dishonest, a continuation on the dishonesty you have embraced throughout this thread.

Disgusting of you.

Justice Ginsburg said nothing about eugenics. That has been proven to be true and your dishonesty can't change that fact.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog Still not answering.


When I said "limit' I was quoting YOU.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps

So now you are claiming that I am advocating eugenics? Grasping at straws and distorting words doesn't go far enough to describe your conduct

Give it up, you've been shown to be completely wrong, and your attempts to twist the facts have failed.

Justice Ginsburg said nothing in regard to eugenics, your claim that abortion and eugenics are linked has been shown to be false.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog I said limit was the word you used.  


I am asking what your definition of eugenics is.  If your answer is, for example, "the philosophy laid out in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic" then I can understand why we can't have agreement on this.  I suspect it isn't.


You can define something without advocating it.  I, for example, in no way advocate communism, but I can define it very explicitly.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog Includes, but not limited to, I think I would insist on.  However, even this definition links abortion and eugenics (from Wells' remarks)


The way of nature has always been to slay the hindmost, and there is still no other way, unless we can prevent those who would become the hindmost being born. It is in the sterilization of failures, and not in the selection of successes for breeding, that the possibility of an improvement of the human stock lies.


They are linked.  That you manage to convince a population to participate in its own genocide makes it no less the genocide.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps @mavdog 

being poor is not hereditary. there is not a genetic basis for one's economic classification.

Eugenics is about genetic selection. Abortion today has nothing to do with genetic selection.

They have zero link. except in your own mind...

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps @mavdog 

huh?
The NBER study find environment has a substantial influence on the adoptive child's future economic status. defeats your argument.

Not going to pay to read the jstor article.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps I'm not sure if you read the whole thing or if you are just cherry-picking.  There were very strong correlations to both nature and nurture.  Adoptive parents were pretty much irrelevant to IQ and reading scores, which are a huge influence on economic status.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

the article cited environment as a major factor. that's not "cherry-picking".

a high IQ does not correlate into an individual's ability to obtain wealth. there are many very wealthy people with average intelligence, and who came from lower economic status childhood.

everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps Fucking hell, can you stop making assertions that have so little resemblance to reality?  I know you wish it weren't so, but the correlation between IQ and wealth is so strong as to be incontrovertible.


You do know the difference between data and anecdotes, right?


In unequivocal terms: a high IQ DOES correlate into an individuals ability to obtain wealth, and in fact correlates exponentially.


http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=wealth+and+iq&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C44



everlastingphelps
everlastingphelps topcommenter

@mavdog @everlastingphelps Again, the difference between anecdote and data.  


You do understand the difference between "just because you are smart won't make you wealthy" and "there is an exponential correlation between IQ and wealth" right?


Example:  Just because you smoke doesn't mean you will get cancer.  


There is a direct correlation between smoking and cancer.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@everlastingphelps 

interesting to note your failure to address the OSU study.

as one commentator remarked, "If there were a correlation between IQ and wealth the parking lots at the colleges would be full of Bentleys owned by the PhD's who work there. but they aren't..."

Now Trending

Dallas Concert Tickets

From the Vault

 

General

Loading...