Buying at auctions
On the block at Mecum’s 2014 Monterey auction. Photo by Kurt Ernst.
(Editor’s note: This column originally appeared, in slightly different form, in the August 2013 issue of Hemmings Motor News. It’s still great advice, which is why we’re running it here.)
Believe it or not there are some truly great buys to be had at collector car auctions. While most of the more affordable prices are to be found at regional auctions, you can still discover some amazing deals at one of the big-name auctions.
The falsely circulated claim that you can’t find any cheap cars at auctions anymore is absolutely untrue. Sure, all the big money cars always grab the spotlight and the media’s attention, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t any cars for the common man to be had for less than market value – there are, we’ve seen them cross the auction block many times.
In order to find that deal of your dream first you need to do your homework thoroughly and properly, otherwise you may get stuck with an overpriced lemon. So here are a few worthwhile tips on what to do, and not to do.
Inspection
You need to inspect the cars that you are interested in buying closely, inside and out. Take notes on their condition, what parts are not correct or broken and, if available, talk to the owner about its history and road worthiness. This will better help you decide if you really want it and the maximum amount you would want to bid for it.
Get There Early
Don’t wait until the main auction day, which is usually Saturday, to find any bargains, as this is the day that’s reserved for the top money cars. The most affordable deals almost always take place on the first day of a multi-day auction; for a one-day auction they are usually the first batch of cars across the block.
Be Realistic
Don’t expect to buy a concours quality car for half its current value – although that can and does happen from time to time, but rarely. Cars that are fairly inexpensive tend to need work, but most of that usually comes down to new paint and chrome plating.
Check the Numbers
When it comes to muscle cars and Corvettes, the VIN reveals exactly what that car is suppose to be; how it was originally built. In many cases, if that first number is a 6 that means that the car was originally built with a six-cylinder engine, so an authentic muscle car it is not. Bring along a friend who’s more knowledgeable when it comes to such production details, or buy one of the many books that have been published on the subject and read up on the facts beforehand.
Choose a Few
Don’t just set your sights on one car; be open minded to other models. Remember, you’re not the only one who’s going to bid on a particular car, so chances are great that you may loose out. Having a back-up car in your sights to buy may be the one that you go home with.
Know Your Limit
If you only have $15,000 to spend, don’t bid higher than $13,500 because at most auctions there’s an 10% buyer’s premium that you will have to pay atop the final bid. At some auctions it’s only an 8% fee, but whatever it is, know beforehand otherwise you can quickly get in over your head. And once that gavel comes down, and you’re the last hand waving, that car is yours no matter what.
Stand Clear
When bidding don’t hide in the back where your bid might not be seen, rather go up front when you know the lot number you’re interested in is about to cross the block. Be firm and assertive during your bidding, and listen and watch carefully to what’s going on. Stay off your cell phone and concentrate on the bidding process.
Don’t Get Drunk
All too often at auctions we see bidders who are clearly intoxicated. Just because you may get free drinks with your bidder’s pass doesn’t mean that you need to consume those drinks; at least not enough to cloud your thought process. A solid and straight frame of mind can save you lots of money.
Get Insurance Immediately
If you end up buying a car at an auction, as soon as that gavel falls and that car is yours, you and only you are responsible for it. In most cases, when the car is driven back onto the field should anything happen to it – get scratched, dented, or have parts removed – it’s not the auction company’s responsibility – it’s yours. So get it insured ASAP.
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…….excellent advice on all points covered….. .
……at indoor auctions you won’t be allowed to start the cars, so talking to the owner is a must……most won’t blatantly lie about drivability, and some may even give helpful advice on needed upgrades…….but it’s up to you to trust them or not…….although they frown on outright deception by sellers, most auctions give no mechanical guarantees whatsoever…
……bringing along a marque expert is always a great idea, but remember, he’s there to advise on condition and authenticity, not price…….it’s your money.
…….and listen carefully to what the auctioneer says…..if he mumbles something about “true mileage”, “salvage”, “bill of sale only”, etc, ask a ringman for clarification…..after the bidding closes is not the time to start bringing up questions, you already own the car.
…bidding at auctions with NO reserves is the true auction experience but alas, today that is a very rare opportunity………a wise auction participant once told me to never bid while the reserve is still in effect…..do not give your hand away because while the reserve is on you cannot buy the car and by bidding while the reserve is on you have given the bid pushers (usually auction employees or owners’ friends) reason to believe you want the car hence pushing up the bid.
Once the auctioneer bellows ” THE RESERVE IS OFF – WE’RE GOING TO SELL THE CAR” …NOW you jump in and quite often the reserve has been removed at a lower amount because few were bidding while the reserve was on.
Worked for me several times and made the auction experience very memorable as well as getting a couple real good deals.
happy bidding
bj
Richard, I think the pointers you brought up apply to any car purchase. New or old. Good advise. Actually applicable to any purchase one might have to make.
While your preamble may be true, my personal opinion is that an auction is the last place one should buy a car. That is, unless it is an extremely desirable rare piece that will only show up there. But those cars are not what we are talking about here.
My reasoning is pretty simple. There are a lot of cars on the market right now. Given the economy, aging population, cars have to be sold. Plus, with number of restorations, refurbishments, etc., that have been done, I think there are more cars out there than buyers.
That being said, one has only to check the various ads that are available to us. Not only print, but the internet. On line auctions, various buy and sell sites, car specific sites. The list goes on and on. Using your Corvair pictured as an example, I would imagine at least 100 good examples can be found within a couple of hours drive. Same with Chevelles, GTOs, etc. Tuckers and V16 Cadillacs, no.
One on one will give you an opportunity to drive the car, check out the numbers as necessary, and inspect it to a degree an auction doesn’t allow. You will make a better choice of what car will grace your garage.
When it comes to price, yes sometimes there are deals to be had at auctions. But, let’s face it. They are few and far between. The cost of attending those auctions has to be factored into the eventual cost of the car.
And let’s not forget that the owner of that car has to fork over 15 to 20 percent sellers premium. If there is a reserve on the car (most smaller auctions will allow that. If they don’t, the seller is a fool) he has to factor that into his bottom line. So that 5000 dollar car is now 6 minimum to cover the fees.
So back to the one on one. You can step back and think about it before handing over the money. Or even walk away and come back another day.
There are too many plusses to dealing one on one. Too many negatives with auctions. Just my humble opinion.
I like to paraphrase Michael Lamm’s opinion. “Nobody wins at an auction but the auctioneer”
I sure agree with setting a limit and staying away from the booze. The booze is for afterwards but setting a limit is absolutely necessary. I was at BJ’s a couple of years ago. I saw a ’35 Ford pickup that really got my attention. It was a reasonable restoration with newer flathead V-8 and it looked to be a potentially good driver. I also saw another ’35 and a ’36 Ford pickup that I thought were also desirable so I decided that I’d bid on one of them if I didn’t get the first one.
The first one came across the block and got up to $7K and sat there. I got into the fracas and even though I was being downright stingy, it was up to the $mid-teens fairly quickly. It finally stalled a thousand below my limit. I hung on still being stingy then it reached my limit. I was sure tempted to hang in there but I promised myself that I was drawing the line. It went for $2K over that which made me kick myself.
The other two went across the block the next day. The ’36 went stupid almost immediately but the 2nd ’35 hung under $10K just like the first one. Be damned if I didn’t draw the line at my limit again, only this time it went for $7K over. Looking back, I’m glad I stopped. I recently got what I wanted, a little closer to home. I might add that if I’d been drinking I’d have probably bought the first truck and not only kicked my own butt when I sobered up but my wife would’ve also been there with her western boots too; probably with a bottle of whiskey to knock me over the head as well.
That’s fantastic advice, and I hope to be able to use that advice someday soon. Although, at the ol’ half-century-plus mark, I’d better start sooner than later.
Auction are always a risk and except for the Big Dollar Cars there is always a reason for the sale which could range from I need to sell for more space in the garage to I am tired of dumping money into this sled. As with Ebay the Auction limits what one can see of the Car or Truck, try to find out who the seller is and talk to them when possible at the Auction or over the phone if the car is on Ebay. On Ebay you can also see the seller’s ratings and I tend to stay away from new seller’s with no ratings at all or one’s with poor ratings. Happy Bidding and Good Luck !
Do your homework; the chances re great that you will be bidding against a dealer or a “phantom” bidder. These are apparently legal, up to the reserve, or expected target price. If you cannot see specifically who is bidding, close your mouth. Get there early and watch who is bidding. You will soon realize who the dealers are. Unless you are a successful collector, don’t waste your time against a dealer. When he stops, the value has been passed.
A further suggestion; I have been following the collector car market for a considerable length of time. I have sold cars at auction successfully, but I knew what I wanted. However, as yet, I have come close, but I have not purchased at auction.
I suggest the everyone scrutinize the various dealers and on-line websites for dealers and auctions. I have found automobiles, that I have been serious about, moving from dealer to dealer, across the nation. The next thing that I see is the same car being advertised for auction, and the auction is nowhere close to where the first ad appeared.
You never know what you are getting, even with a private deal.
BUYER BEWARE … IF YOU ARE NOT SURE; RUN!
There is always something for you; sometimes you just have to wait.
You might even save your marriage!
The last auction I went to I noticed that the auctioneer had his workers in the crowd and they were driving up the bids. People seemed to get what I call auction frenzy and keep going up on bids making the vehicle way over priced. I will go dealer or private party and leave the auctions to others.
Shill bidders! Keeps me away from auctions too.
Several years ago I went to a general equipment auction (a big company was clearing out a bunch of stuff) because I was looking for a used van. This van wasn’t collectible – I needed a work truck. The auction had four… I checked them over and first found questionable representation of their conditions. Each one exhibited engine problems although two had pretty bodies… one was claimed to have only 7000 miles although it had an obvious recent cheap repaint and enough carpet and pedal wear to indicate that the odometer had already turned over.
I sized up the other lookers and noted the order they would present the vans. The two with pretty bodies would go first so I figured that would eliminate two bidders (assumed nobody would buy more than one). There were a lot of people looking at the “low mileage” van, and it would go last. So I focused upon the third van, which also had the ugliest body.
Sure enough, the first two vans sold a little high due to their bodies and their owners quit the auction after winning. Only one other guy bid against me on the third… until I noticed an employee of the auctioneer staff slip off the stage and join the crowd and enter a bid when that other guy quit. The auctioneer pressured me to rise to “the new challenger” – I got mad and told him that I saw what they did, and this was my last bid, and if they tried to bid me up again they’d own it. Their shill slinked away and I ended up under my limit and only $200 higher due to the shill. Many years later I still use that van (although I did have to replace the engine as I suspected).
Funny thing, the “low mileage” van got into a bidder’s frenzy and sold for triple what I paid for mine. Those people had no clue what they were bidding on.
Since then if I’m at an auction I keep my eye out for shill bidders. If I notice them I refuse to bid… sometimes I just leave. It’s dishonest in my book.
You have to watch out for “chandelier bids” where they pull bids out of the air because of a reserve. Most auction houses do this and is a fraud, in my opinion.
Getting insurance immediately is not a requirement. Your regular insurance covers any new car for 30 days from date of purchase. If you have a claim, your carrier will only pay “fair market value,” i.e. You will have to negotiate with an adjuster the FMV of your car and it’s damage. This is different than collector car insurance where you have an agreed value, i.e. You pay premiums based upon the value you set for your new purchase. It is better to get collector car insurance promptly, but it is not a requirement.
Don’t get drunk… classic.
Then I need to stay away from any auction!
As a driver at the last two spring Mecum auctions in Houston I can verify that checking them out early is a must…crawl around under the car if you can. It’s amazing how much fluid of various colors is left on the floor when the cars are moved.
Last year I drove a ’70′s Bronco that had been rebuilt..looked great…ran good (at idle anyway) and made the most God awful noise when you put it in park. There goes about $2500 for a new tranny! Thing sold for 27k.
A few years ago at RM in Monterey, i saw a Bugatti coming down the pedestrian walkway in front of the hotel with blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. The kid driving it pulled into the shade in front of me made a phone call and another kid showed up with a gallon of antifreeze they poured into the hot engine. !!!! It sold for 2.8 million!
I have never bought from a auction, and I doubt I ever will.
I don’t really like auctions, whether it be cars or furniture, because I don’t like “the game” – I prefer to know what someone’s asking and either pay it or pass [or perhaps counter-offer]; there’s too much one-upmanship, and too much collecting for the sake of collecting, otherwise.
I like Graham Lloyd’s philosophy on the matter of buying a car; the only reason to go to an auction would be to snatch up a “find of the day” – getting something at a real bargain price because the buying crowd might think it’s too plebeian for their tastes – that ’65 Dodge Dart the other day was a perfect example.
BUT THENNNNN….as with any auction [say, farm equipment], you have to go there, you have to be there, sit around while cars you’re totally uninterested in [or can't afford] cross the block… yes, maybe you might meet some interesting people, yes, you might get a Bargain of a Lifetime, but odds are you’ll only come away with another day of your life gone.
It’s also why I don’t go to casinos – the House always wins, regardless.
Interesting comments. I intend to come to the US next year and buy a car of the fifties or early sixties and so I watch the auctions on the Internet for almost two years. It occurs to me that the informations about the cars are very often poor. You can read that a car is “a good driver”, has a “stunning condition” etc. Engines are described as “powerful V8″, “tri-power-engine”, “double exhaust” or more trivial or unmeaning stuff.
What a buyer needs to know is: Engine size and HP (matching?, year correct?) Restored? When? What?Frame-off or on? Original color? Color code! Is there a correct title?
Of course I know that I shall calculate some more money, when I have the car home in Germany. I have guys who can weld suspensions or fix brakes, I even can get spare parts for almost every american car (long live the Internet), but I hardly can change colors or provide the right engines. That means, before I come to an auction, I need much more information. Sometimes I ask myself whether the sellers do know enough about their cars. There is just one auctioneer, who gives you all necessary dates, RM, but their cars are not really in my price-range.
So I ask you, what shall I do? Buy at auctions or visit the dealers?
Why don’t you keep an eye on the cars for sale through Hemmings and correspond with some of the more promising offerings? And also, make inquiries with a selected few dealers that seem to have the type of car that you’re looking for? Remember, if the car you’re interested in doesn’t work out, they may know of others for sale from the same general time period.
E-mail makes it easy to do, and if you get some really good leads, you could follow up with a telephone call [if it's not too "altmodisch"] or perhaps even Skype.
Ask LOTS of questions, and try to get a “feel” for the seller – does he seem honest? As we Americans say: “trust your gut” [i.e.; use your intuition].
If you get a REALLY promising lead, ask for LOTS of photographs – undercarriage, engine and body serial numbers, upholstery, headliner, etc. If they’re willing to do this, and if you’ve cultivated some sort of acquaintance with the person, THEN it may be time to buy a ticket and fly on over. You’ll probably pay extra for the flight this way, but it will probably be worth it if you get what you want. Before you come, have the following:
The names and telephone numbers of any dealers or other potential sellers in the general area, in case it doesn’t work out.
Look up some interesting places to visit in that area, and take some vacation time if you can afford it – you might as well make a holiday of it; America is a GREAT place to visit!
The ideal outcome of this would be not only getting a desirable car, but knowing its history first-hand from the previous owner, and perhaps making a friend in America, as well!
John, thank you very much. For some time I’m already collecting adresses of dealers at Hemmings, clasiccars.com and others, on the east.coast, Chicago and Texas-area concerning the cars I’m looking for. And yes, phone-calls are not yet too old-fashioned.
I’ll take plenty of time, bring my golfclubs and enjoy your country one more time, see old friends and make new ones.
Maybe you’ll hear from me. Peter
……..assuming you’re only over here for a week or so, you’re not going to have much time to spend chasing private offerings, so a mix of private sales, reputable dealers and auctions is probably your best bet……
………while on the topic, I don’t know if this has been covered previously on Hemmings, but there’s a new twist to exporting vehicles from the USA that you (and everybody else) should be made aware of…..
…….in their infinite wisdom, the various authorities charged with containing money-laundering have decided to add yet another layer of red tape to international transactions. Those of us that have bought or sold cars over the border in recent years know about the need to fax titles to the appropriate border crossing 72 hours in advance of the actual event……….this new requirement involves the “exporter” also filing a form online with the Internal Revenue Service, something many private sellers may feel uncomfortable doing…….it’s called the “Automated Export System”, and there are potential $10,000 fines for failing to file….the requirement became mandatory on Oct 2/14…..if you are in the USA when you do the transaction, there are ways to do the filing yourself, but a broker’s help would smoothe things a lot in a private deal.
…….hopefully,.by now most big dealers and auctions will have the system figured out, but phone ahead and make sure they are willing to help with the paperwork involved in this latest obstacle to what was once a pretty simple process…..if they won’t, I would suggest you deal somewhere else…….good luck….
Ray, thank you. I heard already that exporting cars from the US and importing them to the European Union is not so easy.
What do the authorities both sides of the Atlantic think we do with the cars? Don’t we have any other problems in the world right now? Fortunately I have a friend who is an international shipping agent and he will care for everything.
But thanks again for your consideration. Peter
……..99% of the world’s countries have some sort of rules and fees for importing cars…….but the USA may be the only one with a growing list of rules for exporting them…..remember, we’re not just talking about “classic” cars here, all “self-propelled equipment” of any type must meet the new regulations….
Come to some of the bigger US car show & swap meets. Carlisle, Iola, Hershey, Charlotte, and many others are good shows to find nice cars at reasonable prices Check Hemmings for these. Best of luck, und, Aufwiedersehn.
Great article followed by, in most cases, 13 comments of more good advice. I have been to only one auction house, the one in Manheim Pa. It was my job to inspect the cars our “buyer” was interested in that day. I could usually thumbs down 6 to 8 of 15 for various problems. Mostly fit/finish after poor body work.
At B-J this past January, I spotted a beautiful 1969 Chevelle SS 396. A black w/red bucket seat interior, 4 speed, A/C, 350hp, 3:73 P-trac, and more. She was a beauty. Being a Thursday evening car, I thought I might get lucky. Following the car to the staging lanes, she looked and sounded great. I got with the owner and asked some questions; rust…No; original accessories…Yes; original-numbers engine…NO !!!; also a 3:31 gear. The writeup on the windshield didn’t mention the NOM engine and “did” list the rearend as 3:73. Still a great car in the $30′s…….Well, she went for $91K, including buyers premium + transportation + T,T,&L. Some poor guy that didn’t do his homework has $100 Grand in a car worth $30-$40K. I think I’ll stick with buying directly from the private seller.
Larry, that’s what I’m afraid of when buying a car at an auction. But in the case of the 69 Chevelle who’s to blame: the buyer? He or she must be an idiot., or the seller, who was at least honest to you?. I just checked the mentioned Chevelle
at BJ’s in Scottsdale Jan 14 (the seller really hyped the car). In Condition 1, which it was not as you said, it is rated by Hagerty at $ 63,700. You are sure that buying from a private seller is less risky?
I learned a great deal from this story, like the man said the house always wins.Better to watch on the boob box at least you will walk away a winner no matter what!
I once bought a Jaguar XJS coupe at an auction in Miami with no reserve. Mine was the last bid at $2000 and it was mine. The seller was so dismayed at the low price that he immediately came up to me with an offer to buy it back for an instant $300 profit so he could try another day. Easy money, easily taken. I went on to buy a stunning white over tan 1980 Corvette Coupe for $4500 only to notice that driving it home the speedometer was reading too high. Closer examination showed it to be in kilometers. Even closer examination showed it was from Canada and closer examination still showed a cowl so rusted away that the fiberglass was holding it up. I traded it away the first chance I got.
People should go to an auction with one thing in mind: they are attending a great car show, complete with entertainment … the bidding!
The 1969 Chevelle SS-396 previously mentioned is another example of a “successful” sale, at a grossly inflated price. The reality is that this particular car was never sold. It would, however, allow the auction house to advertise a grossly inflated total for all sales. $3 million sure looks better than $300,000.
People must realize that there are more SS-396 cars out there than were ever built by the factory. Clones abound … you had better be aware of what you are looking at!
Good advice.
Unless you are a dealer and can prove the car is going out of state you may be hit with sales tax as well.
I agree you have to read the description CAREFULLY as it may seem to imply one thing, but doesn’t out right say it. Like – THOUGHT to be numbers matching, period correct engine, Nearly frame off restoration.
At the Mecum Auction in Indy I was negotiating with the ‘bid goes on desk’ about a 66 442 I was chasing.
Mecum told me I had to pay the 6% Indiana sales tax unless I used their associated shipper (Reliable?) to get it out of the state. Shipping to Michigan would have been about $600. Well 6% of $50,000 is $3,000 so doing the math I knew if I got the car it was heading to Michigan on a truck.
happy motoring
…..yes, printed and online descriptions, or even the auctioneer’s spoken comments (most auctions record the entire sale) are very important documentation, and the wording can be tricky……unless they have 100% confidence in the seller’s claims (and they can’t be expected to have that for 500-1000 entries), they shy away from boasts like “numbers matching”, “guaranteed”, or any other blanket statement that may come back to haunt them. Most operate under the same rules as licensed dealers in that particular state, which means that they have potential liability issues with false advertising….
…….of course, the same issues hold with private sellers, too, however, seeking recourse from individuals is far more problematic than pursuing licensed entities like dealers and auctions.
…….important to note here, most private sellers are reasonably honest people, but when a serious problem surfaces, and it turns out they have handled a stolen, flood-damaged, liened, etc vehicle, some will claim ignorance, which may very well be true……….on the other hand, licensed dealers and auctions, as professionals, are expected to do their due diligence…….ignorance is no excuse.
I like going to auctions because for me its a great car show (especially BJ Scottsdale) but have never bought anything. I might try someday if I sold some of my cars and had the cash sitting around.
So strange to see that picture. My father bought a 66 Corvair, same color and body style at an auction for $600 in 1969.
Thanks for bringing back some nice memories. I loved going to that auction. For a car crazy kid, it was like going to the circus.
I thing I did not see mentioned was talking to the owners of the cars that did not sell because of the reserve.
Especially in multiple day auctions some owners will consider accepting a lower offer the next day rather then take it home.
You must notify and finalize the transaction through the auction company to be legal.
when I watch B-J I think that the first day and last days are the best to score a deal as the big money guys aren’t there yet or have gone home.
I’m really disapointed. More than 30 comments and nobody has good experiences with buying a car at auctions. Didn’t anybody purchase a good car for a reasonable price at an auction?
Am I wrong in my thinking that bidding against a dealer helps you know when you’re the ‘retail’ price is on a car?
I would assume that any successful dealer is going to drop out as the price approaches retail. And I’m sure that having dealers present helps protects consignors from taking a complete bath!
……right on both counts, ODee……..not saying dealers are infallible judges of value, but if you are in the bidding against a couple of them, chances are you’re in relatively safe territory…….gotta be able to recognize them, though, many have clandestine bidding “tells”, as they don’t want to give their eagerness away.
…….on your second, also valid point, auctions would be almost unmanageable without dealers present…….some cars would receive no bids whatsoever, depending on the size and whims of the private buyers present…..dealers may or may not chase cars very hard, but they will make some attempt to buy every one offered, especially in the opening rounds of bids……..keeps the market liquid.
Since I’m not a dealer, and only bid on cars that I intend to enjoy (not flip), I don’t worry about margins and am likely to bid after a dealer stops. Not that I’m going to bid crazy and overpay (I do my homework so I have a reasonable feel for what cars I’m interested in are worth). So I suppose I’m the type of bidder the seller (and auction house) hope for – the one who is willing to pay closer to retail in order to get what he really wants.
I’ve got nothing against dealers – they’re trying to earn a living. Although I have had a few dirty looks from some who thought I was “taking bread off their table”… sorry guy, but your earning a living is not my responsibility.