Why Don't We Know Yet Exactly What Happened When Our Ebola Patient Zero Appeared?

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Wikipedia
Commissioner Price is right about one thing anyway. Something or someone is missing from this picture.

The commenters are already whetting their knives on Stephen Young's piece here a bit earlier reporting that Dallas County Commissioner John Wiley Price has raised the issue of racism in the treatment of Ebola Patient Zero, Thomas Eric Duncan, at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital. But maybe we could all acknowledge one tiny element of legitimacy in what the commissioner is talking about: The question of why Duncan was sent home initially instead of isolated is still the most stubborn mystery in the saga of "Ebola Comes to Dallas."

See also: "John Wiley Price "Knows What Happened" at Presbyterian in Ebola Case"

Even the typically meticulous New York Times still stumbles on it. In an editorial today titled, "Stopping Ebola in America," the paper says, "It is incredible that doctors in a Dallas hospital reportedly made no effort to ascertain the patient's travel patterns."

But four days ago the same newspaper reported the opposite about the hospital's first encounter with Duncan, newly arrived from Liberia. In a news story headlined, "Dallas Hospital Alters Account, Raising Questions on Ebola Case," the Times told readers the hospital had "acknowledged that both the nurses and the doctors in that initial visit had access to the fact that he had arrived from Liberia."

The New York Times is not the Lone Ranger here. Almost two weeks after Presbyterian sent Duncan home with undiagnosed Ebola, that one key transaction is the single piece of the entire puzzle most stubbornly missing from the overall picture. If the nurses knew and the doctors knew that Duncan was a recently arrived immigrant from a hot zone in Africa, why was he sent home?

But did they really know? Or was his travel history merely information buried at the bottom of a computer file no one had time to read?

Or was it something else? Most of the treatment of the question so far seems to assume a bungle, a mistake. But why would we leap to that conclusion? The Dallas Morning News reported on October 2 that two Texas Health hospitals in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, Presbyterian and Harris Methodist, are among three in the area with far worse records than most their size for sending patients home from the emergency room who later must be readmitted. That rubric -- ER readmissions -- is one way the federal health system measures the efficacy of hospital emergency services. Both Texas health hospitals have been penalized for their high rates of readmissions.

If Duncan's dismissal from the emergency room on his first visit was a bungle, then it's reasonable to assume that everybody knows about the bungle by now and a similar goof is unlikely to happen again at any decent hospital in America. But if the handling of Duncan grew out of something more systemic, especially a business or management style or policy, then it may be less reasonable to assume the next hospital will be immune from the same issue.

Especially as other details come clear and early mistakes in the Texas Ebola story are sorted out, it's all the more remarkable that the Texas Health Presbyterian emergency room story remains cloudy. Three days ago a former Boston hospital CEO, Paul Levy, called on Texas Health to open up: "A failure by a hospital to be open about what went wrong in a major medical case such as this," Levy said, "does a major disservice to everyone else in the health care industry."

Unfortunately, the hospital company started the ball rolling with a very detailed, almost ornate explanation of what happened that turned out after a few days to be untrue. On October 1 Texas Health issued a statement saying, "The documentation of the travel history was located in the nursing workflow portion of the EHR (electronic health record), and was designed to provide a high reliability nursing process to allow for the administration of influenza vaccine under a physician-delegated standing order. As designed, the travel history would not automatically appear in the physician's standard workflow."

Three days later, as the Times and The Dallas Morning News reported, the company conceded that "there was no flaw" in its electronic health records system. The company said "the patient's travel history was documented and available to the full care team in the electronic health record, including within the physician's workflow."

The initial statement sounds like the product of some analysis. So how did they get it wrong? The statement was surely written by a public relations person, not a physician, but why was it so emphatically wrong and in such rich detail?

Does that mean a group of doctors or some doctor knew Duncan was newly arrived from Liberia, thought about it and decided to send him home with the wrong prescription anyway? That's a far leap and ignores other possibilities that seem more likely somehow. The fact that information is in a chart does not mean everybody on the case looks at it or even sees it. In the mad crush that an urban urban ER can become on any day at any hour, lots of information may fall through the cracks.

I have a personal dog in this hunt. When they were at the ends of their lives, Presbyterian was the home hospital to my own parents, who have been gone 12 years. It's probably all changed around since then, but I used to know that emergency room like the back of my hand.

If anybody is reading this from far away and wonders what kind of medical care people get at Presbyterian, I would have to testify, based on my own experience, that the care there is top-drawer. Or can be. As far as I could see back then, the hospital was staffed by some of the very best doctors, nurses, tech and cafeteria workers in this area, maybe in the country, maybe in the world.

I was shocked to read about its history of ER readmissions because that information is so starkly in contrast with my own experience, where every admission, again and again from the nursing home, was taken seriously. My parents never went home until the hospital had done everything possible for them.

To put it bluntly, 12 years ago Presbyterian was where you went yourself or sent your loved one if you had good insurance. If you had no insurance, if things were dicey or you just wanted to dodge a co-pay, there were other hospitals in Dallas where you were more likely to go.

But the world around Presbyterian has changed dramatically since my parents were in and out. The entire vast immigrant neighborhood in the Five Points area just blocks east of the hospital is a new phenomenon since then, created by policies of the relief agencies and by settlement patterns.

How has that affected the hospital? How many of the immigrants have insurance? What does it cost Presbyterian to care for the ones who do not? What will it cost Presbyterian to care for Eric Duncan? Who eats that cost? You and I can vow he should be cared for no matter what, but somewhere at some desk somebody has to put that money down in the books. Where in the books? Whose books?

Ownership, management, responsibility, liability: these questions are more complicated than anybody could have imagined even 12 years ago. Right now Christus St. Vincent Regional Medical Center in Santa Fe, New Mexico, owned by a Texas company, is effectively suing its own emergency room to settle a question of liability.

The ER there is run under contract by a doctor's group. The hospital company anticipates an expensive lawsuit from a case that went bad involving the wife of the former New Mexico attorney general. While insisting that everything was done properly in its emergency room, the hospital company nevertheless is suing its own ER doctors to make sure, if an expensive verdict does come out of it, that the doctors will be on the hook for it and not the hospital company.

I don't offer that information with a value judgment, merely as evidence that hospital medicine, especially emergency medicine, is an extremely high stakes business enterprise. It's one in which medical practitioners and hospital administrators may find themselves in seriously adversarial roles. (I have a question in to Texas Health Presbyterian about who runs its ER Haven't heard back yet.)

All of that may turn out to be totally irrelevant this case. If the truth of the matter is that some doc was exhausted from keeping people alive all night and goofed on a single piece of data, then I really don't believe that person should be publicly pilloried or excoriated for it. The rest of us laymen are damned lucky anybody can even get through a medical education anymore and that people are willing and capable enough to do it. Emergency means emergency. It means risk. It's not a hat shop.

But if the Eric Duncan mistake flowed from something more systemic, then we absolutely need to know what it was and how it happened so that we can look for the same problems everywhere else. If it was a non-medical problem, I can almost guarantee you it will turn out to be an issue not be unique to this hospital.


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84 comments
bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

For all the bad that has come from this, there is some good.  With an important election coming up next month, and the Republican leadership BEGGING their members to tone down the racism and other crazy-talk, it's incited them to do the exact opposite - crank up the racism and crazy-talk.


littledebrarae
littledebrarae

Commissioner John Wiley Price was a race baiting bigot, even before the OJ Simpson trial.The fact is he has no more 'credibility' than the other race baiters riding the coat tails of the current administration.

rusknative
rusknative

Obama needs to follow the Hypocritic Oath..."First do no harm".  He currently only follows the Narcisist Hypocrites Oath.

rusknative
rusknative

one thing for certain...If Duncan had actually married the woman he had a kid with in Africa 20 years ago instead of just letting the woman and kid come to America while he stayed in Africa....He would NOT have gotten Ebola, the kid would have had an actual father in his life, and the USA would not have had a contagious African show up on our doorstep to die in one of our fine hospitals.  Also, Price and Jackson would have one less White Guilt story to pander to blacks about in Dallas.

zansd94
zansd94

I had to literally leave the state of Texas because of the poor health care there,  I was half dead and weighed 113 lbs when I left my home of 28 years. I was sent home countless times from various Dallas ERs extremely ill  because of incompetent staff doing just what Presby did..... NOT listening and not paying attention.  Does not help that the party responsible for the discipline of said doctors and ER's  (Texas Medical Board)  literally HELP the doctors hide their errors and downright neglect.  This isn't a black/ white issue it is a Dallas ER's are deplorable issue.  Thus why Texas ranks 50th in the country for quality of care.  The people of Dallas would be shocked if they knew some of the horror stories from their own local ER's !

kjatexas
kjatexas

In the majority of the hospital emergency rooms that I have visited, the bill afterwards, indicates that they are run by contract doctor companies.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

Gov. Slick Rick Perry has killed 318 TIMES more people in Texas than Ebola!!



riconnel8
riconnel8

I just read where the Texas Ebola patient has died. 

My condolences to his loved ones.

riconnel8
riconnel8

Is Presbyterian a nonprofit, charity hospital?  As a nonprofit, charity hospital they would be entitled to file as a 501c3 meaning they don't pay taxes.  I can't find any documentation that they file as 501c3 but I did find this (click on Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital):

https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/chs/hosp/Part-II-Texas-Nonprofit-Hospital-Annual-Statement-of-Community-Benefits-Data,-2010/

I found this article that clued me in:

http://illinoislawreview.org/wp-content/ilr-content/articles/2011/1/Alam.pdf

Presbyterian could be in a whole lot of trouble.

 

 


ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

I can remember when hospitals were known only by its name, and not with the company that owns its name included.  When these "Health Groups" started buying and operating hospitals, shit became about business rather than medicine.  Policy was implemented by business men and not doctors.  Thats why shit like this happens today, its not about the medicine anymore, its all about the $$$$

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

There's a reason why Medicine is called a "practice" and not a perfection.



Mervis
Mervis

It's right there in paragraph 12. The uber scary "urban urban ER". It's double urban.

Lochwoodian
Lochwoodian

Jim, we have warned by my husband's heart doctor to never go the the emergency room at St. Vincent's. And he has followed his own advice by taking ill family members all the way to Albuquerque for emergency treatment.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

How many people in this forum have been or know of someone hospitalized because of a mild fever and discomfort, insured or un-insured?

I've broken legs, knees, arms, had fevers and all sorts of stuff that put me in the ER, with insurance, and they always patched me up, medicated me (yahoo), and sent me back out on the street I blew in from.

Is hospitalization for fever common?

bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

I've got an answer about that "how will they get paid?" question.

When Presby bungled my case - misdiagnosing a gall bladder infection for heart failure - they sent collection notices for about a year.  I finally contacted the HA and explained to him that if I kept getting the collection calls, I'd have to sue them. About a week later, I got a letter from them saying that one of the charities they operated would go ahead and pay the doctor.

It turns out that most of the Christian themed hospitals have a similar setup - fake charities that pay everyone when a doc malpractices.  The reasoning is that as long as the bills get paid, there's much less cause for a lawsuit.

It's modeled after the system the Catholic church created - paying off victims from a supposedly independent charity... supposedly out of the goodness of their hearts - so that the church itself doesn't have to put itself in the position of taking responsibility for their bad acts.

DallasSportsPrincess
DallasSportsPrincess

Great piece.  This is about health care as a business, not in the business of actually helping people.  How do you actually get this to the forefront and over the hysterics? I have no idea.  Thinking is not the strong suit of hysterical sheep. 

roo_ster
roo_ster

JS:

I can tell you one thing that happened, JS.  *Presby followed CDC guidelines.*

Let me reiterate: _Presby was following CDC guidelines._

====

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/10/is_the_cdc_playing_immigration_politics_with_ebola.html

"First, though, let’s quickly discuss the problem Duncan’s case presented, and cases like his will continue to present. During his first visit to the Emergency Room of Texas Presbyterian, Duncan’s condition was such that he “presented with low-grade fever and abdominal pain. His condition did not warrant admission. He also was not exhibiting symptoms specific to Ebola.” Accordingly, Texas Presbyterian sent Duncan home with antibiotics.

When the hospital sent the Ebola-infected Duncan home, it did so because it chose to comply with CDC policy guidelines. Those guidelines were such that even patients who had “traveled to Africa” and who had abdominal pain accompanied with fevers less than 101.5 degrees (i.e., “low-grade” fevers) were to be considered, for purposes of Ebola isolation, essentially “asymptomatic.”"

"As crazy as it is to continue letting mere “travelers to” affected countries with abdominal pains and low-grade fevers go, it is utterly insane to not isolate newly arrived hot zone nationals who exhibit those symptoms -- the future Duncans of America. 

And yet, unbelievably, the CDC still does not intend to isolate future Duncans (see for yourself by clicking here and here -- and remember that these are policy guidelines issued after the Duncan case)."

 ====


The author of the article thinks the CDC is doing so for political reasons.  Thing is, whatever the REASON, the RESULT is the same: future Ebola Guys sent home with scrip for antibiotics in accordance with CDC guidelines.



Links to CDC Ebola Checklist & Algorithm:

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/checklist-patients-evaluated-us-evd.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ebola-algorithm.pdf

 Read them for yourself, especially the algorithm. 

bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

@littledebrarae 

Your obsession with the messenger doesn't matter - the message is sound.

JimSX
JimSX topcommenter

Crat

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@rusknative ... did your mother raise you to be a lowlife bigoted racist piece of shit, or is that a skill you developed on your own?

littledebrarae
littledebrarae

. @zansd94 That's odd.  When I lived in Dallas, I always got excellent care.  I went to a doctor who didn't take any medical insurance, and charged a 'flat rate' for 'all' care.

rusknative
rusknative

@zansd94 My life was TOTALLY saved by the rapid response and incrediable care and facilities at Medical City Hospital when I was literally dead from smoke inhalation...they put me in the hyperbaric chamber, pulmonary speciallists got me breathing, the kept me in ICU in a coma for 10 days....almost 20 years ago now.  Zansd94...maybe you are just a loser and no one WANTS to help you. You sound like a chronic malcontent to me.  Glad you are no longer in Dallas, we have no need for your attitude.

rusknative
rusknative

@kjatexas well...WHAT is your LIFE worth? If you are merely sick, don't go to an ER.  If your have a medical EMERGENCY, then it might cost you a lot of money not to just die.

littledebrarae
littledebrarae

@DonkeyHotay and your 'proof' of that?  We're all waiting with 'baited breath' for your 'wonderful' insight.

rusknative
rusknative

@DonkeyHotay Planned Parenthood has killed and prevented millions of lives. How about those apples.  Who ever ELECTED Planned Parenthood to anything....they get a lot more tax money for killing babies than Rick Perry does for managing our state.

rusknative
rusknative

@ScottsMerkin I REMEMBER when the President of the UNITED STATES was honorable, distinguished, and respectable....today, the POTUS and his creep show are all about THEIR $$$$

riconnel8
riconnel8

@ScottsMerkin I have been trying to "follow the money" with Presbyterian.  I suppose everyone in here knows how non profits operate but me but just in case this is what I am finding out.

 Nonprofits do not have owners; they have founders. IRC section 501c3 states that no part of the net earnings of a section 501c3 organization may benefit any private shareholder or individual.

No one person or group of people can own a nonprofit organization. You don't see nonprofit shares traded on stock exchanges, and any equity in a nonprofit organization belongs to the organization itself, not to the board of directors or the staff. Nonprofit assets can be sold, but the proceeds of the sale must benefit the organization, not private parties.

People form nonprofit organizations to create a public benefit. In fact, nonprofit corporations are referred to sometimes as public benefit corporations.

Despite the name "nonprofit," such an organization can have surplus funds — essentially, a profit — at the end of year. In a nonprofit organization, the surplus funds are held in reserve by the organization and aren't distributed.  

At a minimum, federal law requires that nonprofits with annual revenues totaling more than $25,000 must file a report (Form 990) every year with the IRS, summarizing income and expenses and revealing staff and consultant salaries that are more than $50,000. States also have their own reporting requirements, and both state and federal legislatures are considering more extensive nonprofit accountability laws.

People are paying more attention to nonprofit organizations these days. A few examples of excessive salaries reported in the media and concern about how some nonprofits have spent donated funds have prompted donors, legislators, and the general public to ask more questions regarding nonprofit finances and management.


Here is the early history on Presbyterian:

http://www.texashealth.org/body.cfm?id=2108


Here is the current (I think this is the most current) Board of Trustees:

http://www.texashealth.org/mobile.cfm?id=4769&action=detail&ref=1504

http://www.texashealth.org/body.cfm?id=1629&action=detail&ref=1300


And then they have something called TX Health Resources Foundation:

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists/robert-miller/20130505-texas-health-resources-merges-2-of-its-foundations.ece

http://www.texashealth.org/mobile.cfm?id=4769&action=detail&ref=1563


Maybe no one else cares but I really wanted to know.  Sorry if I posted TMI.

bvckvs
bvckvs topcommenter

@Mervis  ...

It's triply remarkable since Presby is located in a suburban area, not an urban one.

It's funny how racists (black AND white) have come to use the word "urban" to identify African American culture, isn't it?  It's like they're desperately trying to convince someone (likely, themselves) that they're not talking about race.

rusknative
rusknative

@Lochwoodian Having LOTS of experience with hospitals in Albuq and Santa Fe, I would definitely suggest Scott and White in Temple FIRST.

wcvemail
wcvemail

@Lochwoodian

A normal person, thinking clearly about what's best for her family, would have immediately sought another provider when your present one warned "never" and takes his own family all the way out of state for emergencies. That's bizarre, not normal. 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@Lochwoodian ... won't it be funny if someone dies due to the entirely unnecessary delay?

ColonelAngus
ColonelAngus

@TheRuddSki  "Is hospitalization for fever common?"


We took one of the kids twice when he was young, but he was at 106 and rising.  We were scared to death. 

ScottsMerkin
ScottsMerkin topcommenter

@bvckvs #TQATDA, and if there was really malpractice, you would have sued and won, you didnt so all we can assume is that you chose not to pay for a procedure you needed and the malpractice you speak of was just medicine at work, working through the different causes it could be to figure out what is really wrong with you.  

Tabletoppereight
Tabletoppereight

@roo_ster


The author you cite is proven flat out wrong based solely on the limited parts of the CDC algorithm he/she chose to include.


Duncan had a fever of 103°... (to borrow the authors wording) and yet, unbelieblably the hospital still sent him home. Based just on this, the CDC algorithm cannot be blamed. 


Conversely, looking just at his Africa travel and fever, and on none of the other facts known to the hospital team at the time, the hospital made a huge error not just in discharging him, but also in not immediately isolating him from other patients and proceeding with high caution. There was sufficient knowledge of ebola risk in late September to be suspicious of any patient with serious fever and recent Africa travel. Add in Duncan's report of severe pain, headache, etc and the case against the health care team becomes more damning (not meant in a legal sense).


Fever source: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-patient-released-hospital-103-degree-fever-records/story?id=26108315

wcvemail
wcvemail

@roo_ster

I read the article and saw the political inference, and I can't argue with the writer's process or conclusion. I'm open to other interpretations for the CDC policy, but those aren't jumping up and claiming truth.

kjatexas
kjatexas

@rusknative @kjatexas And what exactly does your comment have to do with mine. I was just pointing out a fact regarding ERs. Its not a negative or a positive, in regards to what happened at Presbyterian. It's just how hospitals operate their ERs, at least the ones I've been too.


DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@littledebrarae ... does it hurt to be so ignorant of reality?


  1. Around half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (abortedspontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. Among women who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage rate is about 15-20%. Most miscarriages occur during the first 7 weeks of pregnancy.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm



PS -- it's BATED breath, you illiterate imbecile.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@rusknative ... If God didn't want women to have abortions, he wouldn't spontaneously abort MILLIONS of "unborn babies" every year.


God = the World's Most Prolific Abortionist!

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@bvckvs 

It's triply remarkable since Presby is located in a suburban area, not an urban one

congratulations, I didn't believe you could top the ridiculous, ignorant crap you previously posted.

and then you wrote this gem.

it's over the top. a new standard.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@bvckvs @Mervis ... and those lowlife racist shitsuckers are too stupid to realize that no one other then their fellow lowlife racist shitsuckers falls for it.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@ColonelAngus

106 in a kid is pretty dangerous, I would expect he was hospitalized.

I took one of mine in for "not feeling well", that ended with two arthroscopic heart procedures - and a first-ever entry into whichever chamber they dared not enter at that time.

You just never know...

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@wcvemail @roo_ster 

other items on the column:

  • Does patient have compatible EVD symptoms such as headache, weakness, muscle pain, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain or hemorrhage?
  • Has the patient traveled to an Ebola affected area in the 21 days before illness onset?

Several of those were present. the CDC policy/guidelines were not followed.

The algorithm also states clearly "Fever OR compatible EVD symptoms.." This was also not followed.

ColonelAngus
ColonelAngus

@TheRuddSki  Dang.  106 is not as bad for a four-year-old as it is for old codgers such as we, or so we were told.  You are correct, he spent two nights in a hospital bed the first time with an IV in his hand.  Which he pulled out during the first night.  I have no idea how he got so ornery.....must be his Mom.

wcvemail
wcvemail

@mavdog

Thanks for that, Mav. Then I'll consider that this writer over-reached in associating immigration policy with health policy. I know the publication is oriented right, but hadn't seen the sort of "Obama=Kenyan=Marxist" nonsense published by others of that ilk.

ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul
ThePosterFormerlyKnownasPaul topcommenter

@ColonelAngus @TheRuddSki 

Continued fever above 103F warrants a doctor's exam.


Continued fever about 105F generally results in brain damage.  This is why people with that high of a fever have ice packs applied to the head and underarms.

mavdog
mavdog topcommenter

@wcvemail 

the author was a bit, uh, loose with his wording and conclusions. bottom line he purposely misled the reader IMHO.

It seems to me the author was intent on making a point, which is that Obama is politicizing the CDC, and threw accuracy out the window.

maybe it was RuddSki doing some contract work....

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@mavdog

I would never suggest Obama would politicize anything! He doesn't have time to, 56 fundraisers this year so far, and he's busy calling in airstrikes between holes.

TheRuddSki
TheRuddSki topcommenter

@wcvemail

Cool, I just thought it was trolling, I had no idea I was so sophisticated.

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